My Ice Controller is an Ice/Storm, so instead of Shiver, I used Snow Storm for my ranged slow. I agree that having both a melee slow/confuse and a ranged slow makes an Ice Controller more effective. If I didn't have Snow Storm available, I would probably include Shiver in my build.
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I always get both. The stacking slows just murders a mob's recharge. I would even get it with snowstorm. The double -rech of SS and shiver from range is very nice.
In that case however i would probably skip AA as hurricane would make it kinda useless to have as they would never be in melee. But would probably pick it up later to house the contagious confusion purple set which is really cheap.
I still wish they would tweak shiver back. There is no reason for it to have its recharge it has now after they nerfed all the other controls.
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My ice dom has both shiver and AA - originally I took shiver for PvP, before there were dual builds, but I found occasional use for it in PvE as well. While I don't use it that often in PvE, I have noticed that it is usually a complementary, not redundant, ability.
Aside from the ranged cone/PBAoE nature, as a click shiver is 'sticky', while AA isn't - you have to *stay* in melee to get AA's benefit, while shiver continues to slow even if you move around after casting it. I've found shiver useful mostly in situations where I don't *want* to stay in melee - such as against tough melee foes, or to slow pursuit while I retreat. Also, against spread out enemies, I can shiver one clump and then jump into melee with the rest to slow the whole crowd. Shiver is definitely useful even if you already have AA - I don't think I would go so far as to say both are mandatory, but I would miss shiver if I were to drop it.
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My Ice/Storm hasn't needed either Shiver or Snow Storm since circa I4 or 5. Not to say they're not useful, but there are other things more important that layering on yet more slow powers. Even w/o AA, w/Frostbite & Freezing Rain, you have plenty of -speed and -recharge. For resistant targets like AVs, you'll have your ST powers like BoI & Chilblain to stack. Hell, even Jack has CE.
At this point, Shiver or AA will push you all the way to cap, esp against higher cons and resistant mobs. Both is just overkill; even if you're in a situation where you can't reliably use AA (or Shiver), you're still putting out enough slows that I don't think it's worth another power slot for Shiver (or AA). Maybe for other sets, but for Ice/Storm at least, I've always found Shiver *and* AA to be unnecessary.
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
Dave, let me mention a couple of times that I have been glad that I had Snow Storm:
Katie Hannon TF -- Snow Storm is an easy way to drop those witches and keeps them down while slowing down their attacks. I find it works better than either Shiver or AA. It is great for dropping flying Freaks, too. I find it far more reliable than spamming Frostbite, which tends to miss a few.
Imperious TF -- I love using Snow Storm on the EBs and AVs. Many controls aren't nearly as effective on the ITF, but Slows are very effective. Because you keep getting other foes added in to groups, the toggle nature of Snow Storm is great. It allows me to slow a much larger area than AA alone would, and once I set it on an EB, I don't have to worry about it.
Lots of other uses, too, but those two are easy to see.
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The key for me taking Snow Storm in lieu of Shiver on my Ice/Storm Controller was Snow Storm is autohit. Shiver had to be lined up properly, and even then, there would often be misses. With Snow Storm, everyone around the anchor was affected instantly.
I also stuck a damage proc in Snow Storm as well once I got a spare slot. 
This is not to say that I don't use and enjoy Shiver in other builds: my Ice/Ice Blaster used it to great effect, and my Ice/Rad has it on the list to pick up. Shiver is a great power.
The rule of thumb on an Ice/Storm is to take two of the three slowing powers, and for me, it was Arctic Air and Snow Storm.
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Ah, we're branching off into Snow Storm now.
I really slot up Frostbite for procs, end redux and of course acc so I usually rely on it for -fly. Agreed that for stuff like KHTF, SS would be very handy. I can't really remember what I did on that w/my Ice/Storm--because it exemps you down below your Tornado & Lt Storm, I usually run it on other toons.
I LOVE running the ITF w/my Ice/Storm because of the KB resistant Cim mobs. I honestly never recall having much difficulty w/the end fight--no doubt Snow Storm would be of great help w/multiple AVs if you're on a less than ideal team, esp to slow down the healing nictus.
Like I said, it & Shiver are good powers. I just always find better stuff to take, but then I specialize a lot. For a more rounded builds, they're absolutely good options. I'm also a bit biased against slow as a manner of control--when I first started w/my Ice/Storm (this is back in I0), I used to apply Ice Slick, FR and double stack Shiver. Then I dropped back to 1 Shiver. Then none. Really didn't notice that big of a difference for the most part. I think you get "enough" of it w/your other powers and don't really need anything that's dedicated to just slows, esp. as an Ice/Storm (yes, I realize SS does other stuff, esp -fly, which are handy).
An Offensive Guide to Ice Melee
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My Ice Controller is an Ice/Storm, so instead of Shiver, I used Snow Storm for my ranged slow. I agree that having both a melee slow/confuse and a ranged slow makes an Ice Controller more effective. If I didn't have Snow Storm available, I would probably include Shiver in my build.
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Right. Many guides were written for the Ice/Storm combo, which has three area slows (Arctic Air, Snowstorm, Shiver). Non-Storm builds won't have quite so much overkill in the slow department and might see a lot of advice from people used to thinking about Storm as if it always went with Ice.
I agree that a second slow is great. In the case of Ice/Storm, Snowstorm is my choice because (in some ways) it's a *better* slow than Shiver. In particular, both AA and SS are auto-hit toggles -- put them up and they affect everything in their radii without missing, and they don't take any more mouseclick time or animation time, they just run steady. Also, after casting, each will slow any newcomers to their radius, unlike Shiver, which will be recharging.
I agree that non-Storms should seriously consider Shiver to go with AA.
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Another advantage of Snow Storm: it's a guaranteed interrupt for enemies with interruptible abilities. If you open with Snow Storm, the Raider Engineer can't summon an FF generator, the Comm Officer can't summon a portal, and Embalmed and CoT Mages can't become suicide bombers.
This is also true of Radiation Infection, Enervating Field, and Darkest Night.
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Another advantage of Snow Storm: it's a guaranteed interrupt for enemies with interruptible abilities. If you open with Snow Storm, the Raider Engineer can't summon an FF generator, the Comm Officer can't summon a portal, and Embalmed and CoT Mages can't become suicide bombers.
This is also true of Radiation Infection, Enervating Field, and Darkest Night.
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I did not realize any of that. 
I would infer that such effect continues as long as the baddie is being affected by pulses of Snow Storm?
"How do you know you are on the side of good?" a Paragon citizen asked him. "How can we even know what is 'good'?"
"The Most High has spoken, even with His own blood," Melancton replied. "Surely we know."
I have both AA and Shiver. I use AA for protecting the squishy pile that seems to stalk me in TF's ( thanks to RA's and PAoE heals ).
I use Shiver for when things stay at range or after I get de-toggled by mez/stuns. mostly I use it as a second source of control for ranged so I don't have to run all over the place to apply slow.
to throw out one more combination here, how many of the ice/storm folks use AA and hurricane? I have a mid level ice/storm and am finding almost nothing for recent guides. lots of /storm and some ice/ but not the combination
and while most of the ice guides recommend AA and almost all /storm guides recommend hurricane, I question having both, especially in light of the other discussions here about snow storm and shiver.
I am thinking that if I use hurricane, I should skip AA and get either, or both, shiver and snow storm. those 2 operate at range and hurricane will keep them at range.
if I want to use AA, then leave out hurricane though I am leaning towards the camp that suggests getting shiver or snow storm to complement AA
thoughts? suggestions?
and if someone has a more recent guide that you could point me to for an ice/storm combo, I would love to see it
If I had to pick between Arctic Air and Hurricane AA would win 100% of the time.
Luckily, you don't have to. What I would do is use AA as an "all the time" power and Hurricane as a "sometime" power. You can still use Hurricane to position things (for example, to push them back toward your Ice Slick) and then shut it off when you've got them where you want, and move in with AA.
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to throw out one more combination here, how many of the ice/storm folks use AA and hurricane? I have a mid level ice/storm and am finding almost nothing for recent guides. lots of /storm and some ice/ but not the combination
and while most of the ice guides recommend AA and almost all /storm guides recommend hurricane, I question having both, especially in light of the other discussions here about snow storm and shiver.
I am thinking that if I use hurricane, I should skip AA and get either, or both, shiver and snow storm. those 2 operate at range and hurricane will keep them at range.
if I want to use AA, then leave out hurricane though I am leaning towards the camp that suggests getting shiver or snow storm to complement AA
thoughts? suggestions?
and if someone has a more recent guide that you could point me to for an ice/storm combo, I would love to see it
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AA is my "run it most of the time" power. Hurricane is my "run it only when you need it" power. I actually have a bind that turns off AA and turns on Hurricane at the same time, since running both at the same time is rarely useful (not never -- you can trap a foe in a corner and use both, but there's not much benefit to that).
Hurricane makes a great "panic button" power for when you and the team are being overrun. Hurricane is a nice positioning power. But my favorite use is in the cul-de-sacs on many maps, where I can use Gale to throw the foes into the back, turn on Hurricane to keep them trapped and unable to hit me much, then unleash Tornado and Lighting Storm, Freezing Rain and my APP AoE damage powers. Then I can pick off foes one by one with BoI, Chilblain and my APP blast.
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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running both at the same time is rarely useful (not never -- you can trap a foe in a corner and use both, but there's not much benefit to that).
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I haven't used AA much at all, but I am very familiar with Hurricane and that's why I was wondering whether people picked one over the other. I just couldn't see them being used at the same time
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But my favorite use is in the cul-de-sacs on many maps, where I can use Gale to throw the foes into the back, turn on Hurricane to keep them trapped and unable to hit me much, then unleash Tornado and Lighting Storm, Freezing Rain and my APP AoE damage powers. Then I can pick off foes one by one with BoI, Chilblain and my APP blast.
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I have run several characters with storm and this is my favorite use for hurricane and try to bunch things as constantly as possible. which would mean that AA would be off a substantial amount of the time and why I was wondering if it was worth taking both.
looks like it's definitely worth testing out. either on test server or with alternate build.
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running both at the same time is rarely useful (not never -- you can trap a foe in a corner and use both, but there's not much benefit to that).
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I haven't used AA much at all, but I am very familiar with Hurricane and that's why I was wondering whether people picked one over the other. I just couldn't see them being used at the same time
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But my favorite use is in the cul-de-sacs on many maps, where I can use Gale to throw the foes into the back, turn on Hurricane to keep them trapped and unable to hit me much, then unleash Tornado and Lighting Storm, Freezing Rain and my APP AoE damage powers. Then I can pick off foes one by one with BoI, Chilblain and my APP blast.
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I have run several characters with storm and this is my favorite use for hurricane and try to bunch things as constantly as possible. which would mean that AA would be off a substantial amount of the time and why I was wondering if it was worth taking both.
looks like it's definitely worth testing out. either on test server or with alternate build.
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Most of the time, I run Steamy Mist and Arctic Air together. My usual strategy on my Ice/Storm is to run right behind the tank and the melee fighters. When the tank goes in, I throw down Ice Slick (or Freezing Rain, or maybe both) and then follow in the tank. While Ice Slick keeps the foes busy, AA starts to hit. The overall effect of AA is three things -- Slow, Confuse and "Afraid" (They try to run away, but very slowly.) The confuse doesn't last very long (which is why you have to slot it to the ED cap), but it is just enough to cause the foes to run back into the middle of AA, or turn to attack another foe, or run back and forth doing nothing at all -- they really appear "confused." The net effect is that AA seems to mitigate about 70% of the damage done by the foes in its area. That is pretty significant, and it keeps the foes in the area making it easy for the Tank and Scrappers to wipe them out. I help out by using Block of Ice and Chilblain (slotted for damage) and Air Superiority to hold and do some damage.
You just made me remember a recent time when my usual buddies and I were all running a team of Shield Scrappers. We invited this one guy to participate, and he loved running hurricane most of the time . . . which really frustrated us. Shield gives you a nice damage bonus for the foes being around you, and our Defense was so high that nothing could hit us . . . but he was blowing them all over the place so we had to keep chasing down the bad guys. We had to ask him three times to turn off the perma-'cane. That incident made me much more careful about running Hurricane around melee fighters.
I use Hurricane probably less than 5-10% of the time, and AA is on all the rest. AA is a very effective power. I would skip Hurricane long before AA.
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Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
perma cane is fine if you know how to use superspeed to tighten up the mobs instead of pushing them out.
I've read a number of guides about Ice Control and have noticed many of them suggest selecting either Shiver or Arctic Air, but not both. When I was new to Ice Control, I followed this advice and selected only Arctic Air. I spent a lot of time thinking Ice Control was hugely gimped. Then I respecced and tried running Arctic Air and Shiver together. I found the combination much more effective than AA alone.
I also recently placed a bugged enhancement into Arctic Air. It meant I couldn't use AA on teams. Again, I noticed how hugely gimped the character felt without his AA toggle. I am now firmly in the camp who believes both Shiver and AA are necessary, at least on my Ice/Thermal.
What I'm curious about is where the idea that Shiver and Arctic Air are overlapping powers comes from. I understand that both provide -Recharge and Slow, but after messing with the character for a long time, it seems like they perform very different functions. Also, after reading up on how -Recharge is calculated on +4 enemies, it appears that anything 4 levels higher than you hit by both AA and Shiver is automatically at the -70% Recharge cap.
I understand the fear factor of charging into melee, and don't do it habitually, but I do frequently immobilize things or slow them and keep them at the edge of AA. They can still shoot at me, and do sometimes, but all the confusion often leads them to shoot each other instead. When I tested AA with Contagious Confusion, the results were even better--now that the bug with that proc is getting fixed, I think AA is going to be even better.
Of course I realize that everyone has different play styles, but I'm interested in hearing perspectives from people who have opinions about these powers.