For the record, IMO it seems a little underwhelming that while Blaster get the ability to fire 3 attacks, two of them long range through mez, and Dominators get Domination, scrappers get what seems to be a spikey 10% extra damage.
I mean, if the scrapper regularly does 100 points of damage, over 10 attacks he will on average do 1000 points of damage, plus one of the attacks will double, for 1100. That's 10% more than he would do without it.
Not only does that seem an underwhelming ability, its also a really boring one, largely because it is utterly random.
What might not be bad is something like:
-you normally get a 10% chance to crit, but that chance goes up as your health goes down. Under 50% health maybe its 33% to crit, under 25% health maybe it's 50% to crit - like the old blaster inherent but more powerful, and with a minimum 10% chance to crit no matter what health.
-or have a click inherent like Domination, where the more you attack, the sooner you can use it. Press it and maybe you get 33% crit whlie it's up.
-something- hopefully with more oomph and more drama - even if only in PvE.
But it will probably never happen.
For Great Justice!
The crankiness in this thread is reminding me of the defender forums. 4,000 threads on the awesomeness of scrappers all with our humble inhereint there.
Let the other clasess have theirs. Stalkers do not compare, brutes think they compare, tankers wish they could compare and all others pretend to compare, but in the end, raise your scrapper union card proudly for the best AT out there.
What ever they do, it should not be based around the scrapper's health. Remember the old defiance? Not only that. All these scrappers with soft cap def and hp cap, and scrappers with uber healing and regen powers will hardly benefit from that. I still say have it relate to the mobs health. Gives that "finish him" feel to it. Oh wait... Scrappers are heroes. Nevermind. How about keep the theme the way it is and just raise the %? Like 10% (min), 15%(lt+), and 18 or 20 for the attacks that give more?
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
The problem, Metatron, of doing something like, "As your health drops, your chance to crit rises" is similar to why the scaling damage buff was removed from Blasters (Defiance 1.0).
This type of inherent basically penalizes those with amazing defenses, whether they are resistance, defense, regen, or a combination of them. It definitely provides some oomph in the form of, "Oh crap, I'm getting in over my head, here comes the big numbers!" but this is pretty self defeating. Either you sacrifice your defenses to up your damage or you focus on your defenses and forego the damage increase.
Cool in theory, not so cool in practice.
As others mentioned, I think the main issue with buffing scrapper's inherent is that scrappers are capable of some amazing things. Even though our crits aren't necessarily "awesome" compared to other ATs, I know that I still get excited every time I see one, especially on my eviscerate!
OK, so let's change it up:
10% default, +2% for each minion nearby, +4% for each lt nearby, +10% for each boss. Of course, we don't ahve to use these *specific* numbers, but you see the basic concept.
or reverse it:
33% default, minimum 10%. -5% for each minion nearby, -2% for each lt, -0% for each boss.
Or the second idea I had on my previous post:
or have a click inherent like Domination, where after a certain amount of time, or the more you attack, the sooner you can use it. Press it and maybe you get 33% crit whlie it's up.
Or even just this:
maybe make the crits more "super"
5% chance to instakill a minion
10% chance to crit a lt, half of those are instakills, half are double damage
10% chance to crit a boss, half of those take half the bosses health plus 1, half of those are just double damage
10% chance to crit anything higher than a boss, half of those take 1/4 the mob's health plus 1, half of those are just double damage.
I mean, if you are going to make it spikey, make it REALLY spikey, maybe with an intense sound and/or visual effect.
The problem is that the current scrapper inherent is dull and boring, and while it's better than something even worse, it's usefulness compared to many other inherent powers of other ATs like Dominators or Blasters is weak. [Note: I am not saying that Scrappers **as a whole** are weaker, just that their inherent is relatively weaker in utility.] I mean, it would be more effective to have just increased all scrapper damage by 10% and have no inherent at all - and just as boring.
If you want random events to be exciting and add spice, they have to happen often enough and be awesome enough to shine. While better than a swift kick to the face, the scrapper inherent is sadly lacking in both pizazz and in the oomph factor.
After all, when the Dominator ujses their inherent, **everybody knows**.
Obviously, nothing will change, the devs are probably never going to read this and even if they did, I am sure that no matter what I think the devs love it just the way it is.
Plus its not like I have any other superhero MMO to play.
For now. 
For Great Justice!
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I'm not annoyed that stalkers got the scrapper inherent. That alone I'd be okay with.
I'm annoyed that stalkers got a better version of the scrapper inherent.
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I don't see it as better. They have to be on a team for it to work. Just like HEATs.
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It is. They get the base 10% chance to critical even when solo (and, although it tends not to matter on minions, this is double the critical chance for Scrappers out of the box). Add the controlled criticals, the increased chance on sleeping or held PCs, and the increased chance on a bigger team and I would say they have a lot better inherent.
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Actually, that boled part above, it got removed when Stalkers got buffed. 
I liked it on my Elec Melee Stalker.
That said. Would I be oppossed to such a thing? No. Of course not.
But really, I find scrappers just fine as is.
Buff Defender and possibly Tanker Inherits. Scrappers don't need the added buffage. I say this as a mostly scrapper player (see that sig...working on three other Scrappers as well).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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But really, I find scrappers just fine as is.
Buff Defender and possibly Tanker Inherits. Scrappers don't need the added buffage. I say this as a mostly scrapper player (see that sig...working on three other Scrappers as well).
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That may be actually true - Scrappers may be enough ahead of the game that their comparatively weak inherent doesn't handicap them. But if that's the case, why not just up all scrapper damage by 10% and delete the inherent? It not that different.
I say though, make the inherent MUCH stronger, if you are going to have it at all - even IF you have to make the other stuff somewhat weaker to compensate.
It would be nice if the inherent that scrappers have add as much to the game as Dominator's or Blaster's do. Just saying.
For Great Justice!
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The problem is that the current scrapper inherent is dull and boring, and while it's better than something even worse, it's usefulness compared to many other inherent powers of other ATs like Dominators or Blasters is weak. [Note: I am not saying that Scrappers **as a whole** are weaker, just that their inherent is relatively weaker in utility.] I mean, it would be more effective to have just increased all scrapper damage by 10% and have no inherent at all - and just as boring.
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Villain inherents are core parts of the AT and the AT is designed and balanced around it. Heroes, they were tacked on after the fact.
Blasters got their inherent to help them survive. And the original version of it was rather... unneffective.
Tankers got punchvoke to help them hold aggro (and encourage taking attacks IMO). THey had this even before the power icons were added for it.
Scrappers got criticals... ok so I don't know why they got them. The power icon though wasn't added till issue 6 or so.
Defenders got the rather underwhelming Vigilance which penalizes you for doing a great job protecting the team, but then they really didn't need anything.
Controllers got containment to help them actually deal damage.
Scrappers don't *need* crits to do amazing things. They just make doing those amazing things even more amazing. And whatcha mean crits don't happen often? I see them fairly regularly.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Defenders got the rather underwhelming Vigilance which penalizes you for doing a great job protecting the team, but then they really didn't need anything.
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Negligence doesn't penalize you for doing a good job, it just doesn't do anything.
The overall effect of criticals is now and then you do twice the damage on an attack.
Buffing damage by 10% would have the same long-term effect, but who doesn't like seeing a Built Up Head Splitter crit for 900 damage?
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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And scrapper's chance to crit never increases in ANY situation, teamed or not.
The stalker crit is more effective on teams because it fires more often.
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Nah, Stalker crit GOES DOWN solo. /spin
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Villain inherents are core parts of the AT and the AT is designed and balanced around it. Heroes, they were tacked on after the fact.
Blasters got their inherent to help them survive. And the original version of it was rather... unneffective.
Tankers got punchvoke to help them hold aggro (and encourage taking attacks IMO). THey had this even before the power icons were added for it.
Scrappers got criticals... ok so I don't know why they got them. The power icon though wasn't added till issue 6 or so.
Defenders got the rather underwhelming Vigilance which penalizes you for doing a great job protecting the team, but then they really didn't need anything.
Controllers got containment to help them actually deal damage.
Scrappers don't *need* crits to do amazing things. They just make doing those amazing things even more amazing. And whatcha mean crits don't happen often? I see them fairly regularly.
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Interestingly enough, Scrappers actually got critical slightly before everyone else got their inherents. Scrappers were given Critical for 1 specific reason: they weren't doing enough damage compared to Blasters. Scrappers were given Critical specifically to make them excellent at destroying hard targets, thereby solidifying their role on team as the boss destroyer. The other inherents were added shortly thereafter.
Honestly, I think that Critical is perfectly fine where it is. If there were any change I would make, I'd make it a bit more interesting. Make the base crit rate 5%. Give Scrappers a bar that fluctuates based on being attacked and attacking (re: just like Fury operates). As the bar increases, the chance to crit increases with a guaranteed chance to crit with a full bar. Whenever a Critical hit occurs, the bar resets back to 0. It would make it kinda streakbreaker Critical. But, then again, that's if Castle thinks that it's actually worth it to change Scrapper critical (which is perfectly fine imo).
Also, the devs stated that the reason they gave Defenders such a horrible and almost completely useless inherent was because they thought that Defenders were already the most balanced AT. They didn't want to mess with that, so they didn't get a noticeable inherent.
Oh, Vigilance is noticeable. On my TA/A when things are going right I run out of endurance. When things go south I can't use it up. More often what happens is I get a decent sized endurance discount.
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
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Also, the devs stated that the reason they gave Defenders such a horrible and almost completely useless inherent was because they thought that Defenders were already the most balanced AT. They didn't want to mess with that, so they didn't get a noticeable inherent.
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When did they say that?
I ask, because these days, it seems to me that Scrappers are the most balanced.
Defenders may be internally balanced, but are under performing overall.
Admittedly, this is my personal observation based on solo play - where the Defender is designed to be weak. But since I choose CoX because it was a solo-friendly MMORPG, I do not feel this is an invalid benchmark.
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
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Also, the devs stated that the reason they gave Defenders such a horrible and almost completely useless inherent was because they thought that Defenders were already the most balanced AT. They didn't want to mess with that, so they didn't get a noticeable inherent.
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When did they say that?
I ask, because these days, it seems to me that Scrappers are the most balanced.
Defenders may be internally balanced, but are under performing overall.
Admittedly, this is my personal observation based on solo play - where the Defender is designed to be weak. But since I choose CoX because it was a solo-friendly MMORPG, I do not feel this is an invalid benchmark.
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It was way back, said by the previous series of devs (re: Statesman and Geko) as the original design reason. I've got no clue whether Castle and Positron current adhere to it, but I do know that it was specifically stated by a redname that the comparative weakness of the Defender inherent was a specific design choice.
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I'm annoyed that stalkers got a better version of the scrapper inherent.
[/ QUOTE ]That makes sense, what with all the stalker bragging about their fastest kill-times on pylons, killing AVs, soloing whole task forces, and how the front page is constantly comparing them to brutes. I can understand why you feel scrappers deserve more than they have.
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I'm annoyed that stalkers got a better version of the scrapper inherent.
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I've never been jealous of a stalker.
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Also, the devs stated that the reason they gave Defenders such a horrible and almost completely useless inherent was because they thought that Defenders were already the most balanced AT. They didn't want to mess with that, so they didn't get a noticeable inherent.
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When did they say that?
I ask, because these days, it seems to me that Scrappers are the most balanced.
Defenders may be internally balanced, but are under performing overall.
Admittedly, this is my personal observation based on solo play - where the Defender is designed to be weak. But since I choose CoX because it was a solo-friendly MMORPG, I do not feel this is an invalid benchmark.
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It was way back, said by the previous series of devs (re: Statesman and Geko) as the original design reason. I've got no clue whether Castle and Positron current adhere to it, but I do know that it was specifically stated by a redname that the comparative weakness of the Defender inherent was a specific design choice.
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It was stated in the run-up to Issue 5. Defenders were somewhat surprised to see that, for the most part, they avoided the crushing weight of nerfs that came in with the GDN. Only FF took a serious hit IIRC.
As to the topic, Scrappers are fine. Stalkers have absolutely abysmal AOE and a lower base modifier than Scrappers. Criticals are what they are. Inherent powers were not intended to define hero ATs like they did with villains. In most cases (Tankers, Controllers, Scrappers, Blasters) they were added or changed to shore up a critical deficiency in the AT.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
I guess the consensus isn't that I am wrong about the comparative weakness of the scrapper inherent, but that it doesn't matter. People think that scrappers are fine overall, and that certainly may be true. I still stand by my assertion that they may as well simply up scrapper attacks by 10% and ditch the inherent, but I can certainly accept the perceived fact that no matter how bad the inherent is on its own, scrappers as a whole are fine.
Thanks folks. I guess after playing Blasters and other ATS I was just looking for the inherent to provide a little more drama.
For Great Justice!
Drama is for defenders. They need something to do while scrappers do their thing.
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Can I be the first to say that scrappers are the last AT to need a buff..? :P
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Last? No.
Certain combos of VEATs, Controllers, and Masterminds are all stronger IMO in PvE than Scrappers.
Brutes are arguably as good or some suggest better than scrappers. (Note that I am trying to avoid that particular discussion.)
Blasters are IMO as good, just different. The damage is just so good. A Flying blaster with capped ranged attack is fearsome.
I just don't have the practical end game experience with Corruptors to say for sure, but I suspect a flying /Kin with capped ranged defense would be capable of some special things.
All of these are capable of soloing AVs, doing the Rikti challenge, and scoring well on the Pylon test.
As much as I love Scrappers, they are somewhere in the middle of the pack as far as ATs go.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563