You expect people making modern movies based off of existing franchises should make themselves knowledgeable about the history of the story they are telling?
What are you, some kind of Star Trek fanboi?
If the game spit out 20 dollar bills people would complain that they weren't sequentially numbered. If they were sequentially numbered people would complain that they weren't random enough.
Black Pebble is my new hero.
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Just went to see last night with friends and after giving it some thought I've decided taken on it's own it's a pretty decent action flick with quality effects, but the people who wrote it really should have watched the original.
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I didn't see anything that directly contradicted the first movie, (clearly there is more yet that could come) and there were hints that the timeline might have shifted some due to the earlier Terminator interference.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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Just went to see last night with friends and after giving it some thought I've decided taken on it's own it's a pretty decent action flick with quality effects, but the people who wrote it really should have watched the original.
Just saying.
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I liked Terminator- Salvation but I think it was worth watching the previous movies (1-3). A lot of the original lines that were the kickers in those movies reappeared in this movie and it was kind of cool seeing their origin. I won't say a lot about the plot line since some people probably haven't seen it. I liked how it kept in keeping with the being hunted/action and It was so cool they had a view of previous terminator (Arnie) in there.
http://tiny.cc/ArcaneDefenseItems
This is a bug, nothing more. Please put away the tin-foil hats, there's nothing sinister going on here.-Protea
http://tiny.cc/WhatBeatsADragon
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I didn't see anything that directly contradicted the first movie, (clearly there is more yet that could come) and there were hints that the timeline might have shifted some due to the earlier Terminator interference.
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I'm not going to lay out the things I saw that were direct contradictions so as to avoid spoiling the movie for anyone, but quite frankly either we weren't watching the same movie or you don't remember the early ones too well because I saw plenty of contradictions, some of which went to the core of the entire series.
You are saying in your original post the makers of Terminator 4 should have watched the original (ie T1) and then in your next post you refer to the early ones. I agree with Chyll that there weren't really any contradicitions with this movie and T1.
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I didn't see anything that directly contradicted the first movie, (clearly there is more yet that could come) and there were hints that the timeline might have shifted some due to the earlier Terminator interference.
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I'm not going to lay out the things I saw that were direct contradictions so as to avoid spoiling the movie for anyone, but quite frankly either we weren't watching the same movie or you don't remember the early ones too well because I saw plenty of contradictions, some of which went to the core of the entire series.
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Can you PM a list to those that have seen the movie? plz
Theme song of Justice
Screw it. *WARNING SPOILER ALERT. DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE SPOILERS*
Here is my main beef. Just the main one mind you. This movie had 3 predecessors of varying quality, but they all had one critical unifying plot element on which the series was built, starting right from the beginning.
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Kyle Reese: ...Some of us were kept alive... to work... loading bodies into dumpsters and incinerators. The disposal units ran night and day. We were that close to going out forever. But there was one man who taught us to fight, to storm the wire of the camps, to smash those metal [censored] into junk. He turned it around. He brought us back from the brink. His name is Connor. John Connor. Your son, Sarah, your unborn son.
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This and other lines of dialogue, nay arguably the entire plot of the first movie make it clear that in the world the series is set in, Connor is the savior of humanity. Without him, mankind is doomed to extinction. He is such a lynchpin that skynet attempts multiple times to prevent his existence. However, in the latest movie, set at least a handful of years before Reese is sent back in time but after the nuclear holocaust, mankind is not on the brink of destruction. In fact it has enough resources to equip, fuel and fly helicopters and warplanes, to say nothing of keeping submarines operational. The best advantage Skynet was ever going to have, and when humanity would be closest to it's nadir, is in the period immediately after the nuclear attack. There would be no organized resistance and survivors would be wholly concerned with survival, let alone fighting against the machines. What we see in the first movie, with it's limited future scenes is consistent with this idea, humanity reduced to foragers and scavengers, driven underground by the machines to eke out an existence in hiding, not flying well equiped helicopters around Southern California in broad daylight.
Is John Connor behind this? Does the knowledge and forewarning passed on to him by his mother allow him to alter things by having humanity better prepared. No. Why? Because in this film he is no longer the savior. Cripes he's not even the singular leader Reese clearly indicates him to be in the first film, he's merely a captain or lt. or other field rank officer within the resistance who must follow orders handed down from a leadership of commanders who are removed from the field of battle. This is flat out contradictory and inconsistent with what we know from the first film.
Then there is the problem of Reese. In Salvation, Reese replaces Connor as the lynchpin that needs to be saved, oddly, however, only so that he can father Connor, who according to the circumstances of the film itself, no longer seems critical or even necessary to humanity's future. Does anyone really think nobody but John Connor can get on the radio and give a decent pep talk? Surely at least one Pop Warner football coach survived. 
But wait, we haven't gotten to my favorite paradox yet. Skynet captures Reese, recognizes him as important, and uses him for bait to lure Connor. In first movie we are told Skynet didn't have very good records about Connor's origins because records were destroyed in the war. But if Skynet knows that Reese is important, there are only two plausible reasons for him to be so from it's point of view. Either Skynet has deduced that he is Connor's father or it knows he will become the soldier that stops it's first Terminator. Without either of these, there is nothing special or significant about Reese that makes him worthy bait. But if Skynet knew either of these things, it makes more sense to simply kill Reese outright rather than use him as bait for Connor.
I'd say more but my limited time to address things is up and I must go for now.
Kaiser I think you missed the point of the movie and the Terminator franchise 
The future has changed. Even John pointed that out in the movie.
Everytime there was a Terminator movie, starting from the original, they had done something that had not happened in the original timeline, which in turn, changes events in the future.
As such, with Salvation, the basic idea of the Terminator controlled future is still there. But they replaced the fail pitch black atmosphere with skulls and silly lasers with a believable ruined landscape and win bullets.
As for Skynet, it has always been silly in every single Terminator movie. For something that has time travel capabilities, you'd think it would send a Terminator back to kill the Connors every five minutes. So to gripe about it's logic in this movie and not the rest is also the way to sillypants McGee.
The bottomline is Terminator is and always will be an action movie that uses sci-fi themes not a sci-fi movie that has action. So Bay-class asplosions and actiony sequences will always take front seat to thes story.
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Screw it. *WARNING SPOILER ALERT. DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE SPOILERS*
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Kyle Reese: ...Some of us were kept alive... to work... loading bodies into dumpsters and incinerators. The disposal units ran night and day. We were that close to going out forever. But there was one man who taught us to fight, to storm the wire of the camps, to smash those metal [censored] into junk. He turned it around. He brought us back from the brink. His name is Connor. John Connor. Your son, Sarah, your unborn son.
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This and other lines of dialogue, nay arguably the entire plot of the first movie make it clear that in the world the series is set in, Connor is the savior of humanity. Without him, mankind is doomed to extinction. He is such a lynchpin that skynet attempts multiple times to prevent his existence. However, in the latest movie, set at least a handful of years before Reese is sent back in time but after the nuclear holocaust, mankind is not on the brink of destruction. In fact it has enough resources to equip, fuel and fly helicopters and warplanes, to say nothing of keeping submarines operational. The best advantage Skynet was ever going to have, and when humanity would be closest to it's nadir, is in the period immediately after the nuclear attack. There would be no organized resistance and survivors would be wholly concerned with survival, let alone fighting against the machines. What we see in the first movie, with it's limited future scenes is consistent with this idea, humanity reduced to foragers and scavengers, driven underground by the machines to eke out an existence in hiding, not flying well equiped helicopters around Southern California in broad daylight.
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Reese clearly has about what... 8-10 years of aging to do before he goes back to save Sarah? There still isn't anything directly contradicted with what happens in the next decade or so before humanity reaches a point that lines up with sending Reese back... This is just the next sequential step in the story. lots left to happen.
I'd also argue you are wrong in the precepts of what humanity's capability would be just after the nuclear war. Most of normal humans - yep struggling to get by. And we saw ample evidence of that. However, clusters of surviving military units and equipment making a heroic last stand? Yep I buy that. I'd expect them to attrit over the next couple of years pretty quickly too. Setting up, again, just your point on humanity at the brink....
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Is John Connor behind this? Does the knowledge and forewarning passed on to him by his mother allow him to alter things by having humanity better prepared. No. Why? Because in this film he is no longer the savior. Cripes he's not even the singular leader Reese clearly indicates him to be in the first film, he's merely a captain or lt. or other field rank officer within the resistance who must follow orders handed down from a leadership of commanders who are removed from the field of battle. This is flat out contradictory and inconsistent with what we know from the first film.
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No its not.
But he had no recognized military experience. Gotta start somewhere. Human nature would dictate it would be unlikely to be at the top. Actually pretty logical that the surviving military command wouldn't plop him into the big chair and tell him to 'have at it'. This doesn't contradict anything.
And even still, everyone knew his name and that he was the promised savior. Heck, the entire resistance stood down on his orders.
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Then there is the problem of Reese. In Salvation, Reese replaces Connor as the lynchpin that needs to be saved, oddly, however, only so that he can father Connor, who according to the circumstances of the film itself, no longer seems critical or even necessary to humanity's future. Does anyone really think nobody but John Connor can get on the radio and give a decent pep talk?
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What? 1) what does the radio pep talk have to do with Skynet being smart enough to realize that killing Reese is as good as killing Connor and going for both at once? And the programmed android's instructions were expressingly designed to get Connor... getting Reese was an extra bonus.
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But wait, we haven't gotten to my favorite paradox yet. Skynet captures Reese, recognizes him as important, and uses him for bait to lure Connor. In first movie we are told Skynet didn't have very good records about Connor's origins because records were destroyed in the war. But if Skynet knows that Reese is important, there are only two plausible reasons for him to be so from it's point of view. Either Skynet has deduced that he is Connor's father or it knows he will become the soldier that stops it's first Terminator. Without either of these, there is nothing special or significant about Reese that makes him worthy bait. But if Skynet knew either of these things, it makes more sense to simply kill Reese outright rather than use him as bait for Connor.
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I'll give you a minor script issue with that one. But as for a contradiction... again, as mentioned, even Connor specifically stated that history was different. So some data survived the war. Maybe just the initial war - cause clearly it hasn't wound down yet. Is that data lost in the big explosion at the end of the movie. Skynet lacks the information going forward? Who knows. Again, no angst about it here.
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
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this
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pontius pilate at 10 o'clock !!!!! lmao
I've become one with the Cake!
You should watch the Sarah Connor Chronicles, particularly the final episode, for a good handle on what is "allowed" - spoiler at the end of my post. The future isn't set in stone in the Terminator universe, its very fluid based on day to day actions in the "present", whenever that may be. Judgement Day is pushed back repeatedly and the mechanism by which it occurs (and skynet comes about) changes based on the actions of what could be called the "time war", humans and skynet changing events of the past.
-- spoiler --
John jumps forward in time to some post-judgement day date from 2009. He encounters the resistance, led by Kyle and Derek Reese. They have no idea who he, John Connor, is.
--spoiler--
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Screw it. *WARNING SPOILER ALERT. DO NOT READ IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE SPOILERS*
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Kyle Reese: ...Some of us were kept alive... to work... loading bodies into dumpsters and incinerators. The disposal units ran night and day. We were that close to going out forever. But there was one man who taught us to fight, to storm the wire of the camps, to smash those metal [censored] into junk. He turned it around. He brought us back from the brink. His name is Connor. John Connor. Your son, Sarah, your unborn son.
[/ QUOTE ]
This and other lines of dialogue, nay arguably the entire plot of the first movie make it clear that in the world the series is set in, Connor is the savior of humanity. Without him, mankind is doomed to extinction. He is such a lynchpin that skynet attempts multiple times to prevent his existence. However, in the latest movie, set at least a handful of years before Reese is sent back in time but after the nuclear holocaust, mankind is not on the brink of destruction. In fact it has enough resources to equip, fuel and fly helicopters and warplanes, to say nothing of keeping submarines operational. The best advantage Skynet was ever going to have, and when humanity would be closest to it's nadir, is in the period immediately after the nuclear attack. There would be no organized resistance and survivors would be wholly concerned with survival, let alone fighting against the machines. What we see in the first movie, with it's limited future scenes is consistent with this idea, humanity reduced to foragers and scavengers, driven underground by the machines to eke out an existence in hiding, not flying well equiped helicopters around Southern California in broad daylight.
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Reese clearly has about what... 8-10 years of aging to do before he goes back to save Sarah? There still isn't anything directly contradicted with what happens in the next decade or so before humanity reaches a point that lines up with sending Reese back... This is just the next sequential step in the story. lots left to happen.
I'd also argue you are wrong in the precepts of what humanity's capability would be just after the nuclear war. Most of normal humans - yep struggling to get by. And we saw ample evidence of that. However, clusters of surviving military units and equipment making a heroic last stand? Yep I buy that. I'd expect them to attrit over the next couple of years pretty quickly too. Setting up, again, just your point on humanity at the brink....
[ QUOTE ]
Is John Connor behind this? Does the knowledge and forewarning passed on to him by his mother allow him to alter things by having humanity better prepared. No. Why? Because in this film he is no longer the savior. Cripes he's not even the singular leader Reese clearly indicates him to be in the first film, he's merely a captain or lt. or other field rank officer within the resistance who must follow orders handed down from a leadership of commanders who are removed from the field of battle. This is flat out contradictory and inconsistent with what we know from the first film.
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No its not.
But he had no recognized military experience. Gotta start somewhere. Human nature would dictate it would be unlikely to be at the top. Actually pretty logical that the surviving military command wouldn't plop him into the big chair and tell him to 'have at it'. This doesn't contradict anything.
And even still, everyone knew his name and that he was the promised savior. Heck, the entire resistance stood down on his orders.
[ QUOTE ]
Then there is the problem of Reese. In Salvation, Reese replaces Connor as the lynchpin that needs to be saved, oddly, however, only so that he can father Connor, who according to the circumstances of the film itself, no longer seems critical or even necessary to humanity's future. Does anyone really think nobody but John Connor can get on the radio and give a decent pep talk?
[/ QUOTE ]
What? 1) what does the radio pep talk have to do with Skynet being smart enough to realize that killing Reese is as good as killing Connor and going for both at once? And the programmed android's instructions were expressingly designed to get Connor... getting Reese was an extra bonus.
[ QUOTE ]
But wait, we haven't gotten to my favorite paradox yet. Skynet captures Reese, recognizes him as important, and uses him for bait to lure Connor. In first movie we are told Skynet didn't have very good records about Connor's origins because records were destroyed in the war. But if Skynet knows that Reese is important, there are only two plausible reasons for him to be so from it's point of view. Either Skynet has deduced that he is Connor's father or it knows he will become the soldier that stops it's first Terminator. Without either of these, there is nothing special or significant about Reese that makes him worthy bait. But if Skynet knew either of these things, it makes more sense to simply kill Reese outright rather than use him as bait for Connor.
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I'll give you a minor script issue with that one. But as for a contradiction... again, as mentioned, even Connor specifically stated that history was different. So some data survived the war. Maybe just the initial war - cause clearly it hasn't wound down yet. Is that data lost in the big explosion at the end of the movie. Skynet lacks the information going forward? Who knows. Again, no angst about it here.
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I was going to point out most of this.
Also repoint out this. At the end of T3, John is on the radio. He lefts whats left of the military know whats what. Not "lead us cuz we suck on our own!!!!".
He tells them the info. Skynet, machines, etc.
Probably at first they dont believe him but then they do. He would be brought on as an advisor, not leader.
He would probably be promoted to a higher rank more quickly than normal because of this.
And there is the main and simple fact that time is constantly changing in this series, not set it stone. The plot of T2 made you think that its all predestined because of the first terminator bringing that machine tech back.
No, T1 ended up speeding up judgement day. T2 fixed the speed up but only prolonged it. T3 showed us that.
So sorry, since time changes (as said in T3 since judgement day never came when it was originally said in T1) that anything goes now. Because of this simple last fact, there is nothing you can say or do to make any terminator EVER, that they are being wrong. Its an anything goes situation.
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Storylines:
Introductions, Obey,
I agree with you, that on its own it is a pretty decent action flick.
My biggest beef with Termintor: Salvation is this:
In all 3 movies the whole story, plot, and movie is based AROUND John Connor.
The 1st one was about Sarah Connor and her unborn son
The 2nd one was about Teenage John Connor
The 3rd one was about Adult John Connor.
Terminator Salavation was about Marcus Wright with John as a low secondary plot. John Connor SHOULD NEVER be a "B" plot to a Terminator movie. The movie wasn't about John Connor, it was mainly about Marcus Wright!!
John Connor had alot less screen time then Marcus. That shouldn't be.
/rant.
Terminator Timeline Graph
*There should also be a third timeline branch from T2 where there was no Judgement Day and everyone lived happily ever-after. As per one of the deleted scenes in the Special Edition.
Detailed Timeline Info
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Terminator Timeline Graph
*There should also be a third timeline branch from T2 where there was no Judgement Day and everyone lived happily ever-after. As per one of the deleted scenes in the Special Edition.
Detailed Timeline Info
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They need to update that chart to show when Spock flies in to give them some red dots.
Just went to see last night with friends and after giving it some thought I've decided taken on it's own it's a pretty decent action flick with quality effects, but the people who wrote it really should have watched the original.
Just saying.