Also wanted to note: note that even with the "nerf" to electric, it still is the superior single target set with Energy now being a close second place.
My AoE calculations may be a bit unfair right now as I am using a low spacing calculation which is not too realistic, 10ft radius AoEs are "easy" to saturate, but this is not so true for ATs without taunting capabilities. I will increase that spacing to
Edit: OK did some slight re-weighting to make the distinction between various AoE powers more obvious.
As much as I had fun with my plant/psi assault build on test...
This information is very depressing.....
Psi asault is 5/6 for single target, and 3/6 for Aoe? Does that make any sense at all? Thats terrible.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Thank you!
Starsman is this considering the melee modifiers for Psi Scream and Psionic Shock Wave?
Please say no.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
[ QUOTE ]
As much as I had fun with my plant/psi assault build on test...
This information is very depressing.....
Psi asault is 5/6 for single target, and 3/6 for Aoe? Does that make any sense at all? Thats terrible.
[/ QUOTE ]
If you were to scroll through the gigantic i15 dom buff thread you'd see where I called this exactly.
It isn't that /psi is bad st damage, the other sets are just better.
As for aoe, where was it supposed to go, it wasn't all that far in the lead.
Sort of like how you can't roll a bad corruptor, some are just really amazing.
Traps is pretty bad in my book... 
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
[ QUOTE ]
Starsman is this considering the melee modifiers for Psi Scream and Psionic Shock Wave?
Please say no.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes I am but I also strongly consider reach and aoe caps.
Also, I consider Thorntrops to do it's full damage to all foes, this is not always true. In fact, I should shorten it's effective life's usefulness from 45 seconds to something more realistic, like 20-25 seconds.
That aside, if Castle wants to bring Bang into PSW without breaking any more rules, all he has to do is increase the power's hit cap to 16. AT that point psi becomes better against huge groups but fire better against 10 or smaller groups.
As for electric melee, for a set with so high ST damage perhaps the AoE damage portion of thunderstrike is set a bit too high, specially after the changes (unless I got the wrong number, I understand the energy portion is 1.45 and accounts for the AoE damage. When Castle noted he reduced the ST portion, though, I may had taken things wrong and he may had meant this value to be inclusive into that ST portion. That's a thing I am so sure was my mistake that I will fix it without confirming first.
QR
Nice. Would it be possible to add a Ranged ST damage category to the tables also? Presumably fire, ice and now energy (since it has power push, bolt, blast, and burst now) are going to pull ahead here, but I'd like to see the calculations.
With the ranged damage modifier being (as a percentage of the previous state, even if absolutely each was increased by the same amount of .3) being increased more than the melee modifier, I'd expect more doms possibly to switch to ranged damage.
Edit: I think you can be generous and include cones like fire breath in the ranged category. After all, if someone wanted to they could put some ranges in them and have pretty respectable range without a whole lot of difficulty.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
Not easy based on how I have these things set up. It's a huge complex beast that does not take range into account...
I could make entirely separate versions that set melee powers into zero priority (basically turning them off) but that would be a new document for me, just a new link for you... I'll see if I can get that done by tomorrow.
How would you define ranged, though? 60ft? 50ft? 80ft? There are many cones that may not apply for ranged calculations, and off course PBAoEs would be out of the question.
Is there any particular reason why you did not include Telekinetic Thrust in any of your calculations for Psionic Assault? I would have thought that it would definitely be desirable after the test changes (much like Power Push). Or am I missing something (wouldn't be the first time)?
Just curious.
It is "included" but it's damage per activation time is not the best. It would be used if the snipe was not available or if there was not enough slotted recharge to keep a chain with those powers. With 50% recharge, those attacks should not yield gaps.
[ QUOTE ]
That aside, if Castle wants to bring Bang into PSW without breaking any more rules, all he has to do is increase the power's hit cap to 16. AT that point psi becomes better against huge groups but fire better against 10 or smaller groups.
[/ QUOTE ]
Castle was on test earlier and he mentioned this. It's coming in a future patch.
Oh lordy thank you.
When something good happens to me, I can never enjoy it....
I am always too busy looking for the inevitable punchline...
BEHOLD THE POWER OF CHEESE!
Gotcha, thanks.
I actually may lower the priority on snipes a bit, they are, after all, undesirable to be used mid combat due to interruptibility. Although it's nice that finally, at least one set, finds a snipe useful in an attack chain.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That aside, if Castle wants to bring Bang into PSW without breaking any more rules, all he has to do is increase the power's hit cap to 16. AT that point psi becomes better against huge groups but fire better against 10 or smaller groups.
[/ QUOTE ]
Castle was on test earlier and he mentioned this. It's coming in a future patch.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great! OK so did the following changes to the charts:
<ul type="square">[*]PSW will now cap at 16[*]Fixed Thunder Strike, had energy (aoe) section way too high.[*]Lowered the "effective duration" of Thorntrops to only 20 seconds instead of the 45 seconds it normally lasts. If foes are not dead by then they will likely be out of Thorntrops for sure.[/list]
As it stands with these changes (some are not in test yet but will be) fire gets to be the AoE king with Psi being a very close second as long as he faces very large crowds.
Thorns is not too far behind on the third place unless it faces spawns of extremely durable foes that don't run.
So I guess we end up with 3 very distinctive yet well balanced AoE oriented sets.
More changes just for the sake of precision.
<ul type="square">[*]I find endurance efficiency to be an important prioritization factor, therefore I did a change on attack priorities based on the damage modifiers to take advantage of the higher melee modifiers. This means that melee powers will be favored over ranged ones.
The priority assumes a 10% advantage by using melee attacks, therefore a ranged attack's damage per activation second must exceed a melee one by 10% to be considered "better", anything less than 10% and the melee attack will be preferred even if its not really better damage wise. For one, this make Telekinetic Thrust be used in attack chains.
In the old world the discrepancy was even bigger, 15% to be exact, so in the "before" cases melee attacks are even more preferred than ranged ones.
However, in theory, this lowers the dps of sets that rely more on ranged damage.
[*]As requested by _Ail_, here is a link to a version (with dom) that refuses to use melee attacks. It does, however, uses all cones, just avoids PBAOE and strictly melee attacks.[/list]
[ QUOTE ]
As requested by _Ail_, here is a link to a version (with dom) that refuses to use melee attacks. It does, however, uses all cones, just avoids PBAOE and strictly melee attacks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. Nice to see energy on top. I forsee a lot of ST ranged /energy builds.
"Hi, my name is Ail. I make people sick."
A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As requested by _Ail_, here is a link to a version (with dom) that refuses to use melee attacks. It does, however, uses all cones, just avoids PBAOE and strictly melee attacks.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. Nice to see energy on top. I forsee a lot of ST ranged /energy builds.
[/ QUOTE ]
No doubt. I'd hesitate to quickly recommend fire for anyone looking for a ranged dom unless they plan a high recharge build. Whereas it was the ticket before. That said, high recharge fire looks very good.
/eng is looking to be fotm for sure.
[ QUOTE ]
Traps is pretty bad in my book...
[/ QUOTE ]
Not on topic, but it is by far the best set in the game for tackling AV's and can even solo GM's. And that is all without IO's (or minimal).
The set solo's very well too. It is pretty lame in fast teams definitely.
It is very niche, but where it shines it is very bright.
[ QUOTE ]
No doubt. I'd hesitate to quickly recommend fire for anyone looking for a ranged dom unless they plan a high recharge build. Whereas it was the ticket before. That said, high recharge fire looks very good.
[/ QUOTE ]
For what I see both energy and fire share similar recharge rates so both may need similar recharge levels to hit a gapless chain.
That being told, Fire is just slightly behind, Energy has a score of 2.07 and Fire 2.03. they are so close I'd call it almost a tie, only Energy has better mitigation built in and fire also gets to be nasty AoE.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No doubt. I'd hesitate to quickly recommend fire for anyone looking for a ranged dom unless they plan a high recharge build. Whereas it was the ticket before. That said, high recharge fire looks very good.
[/ QUOTE ]
For what I see both energy and fire share similar recharge rates so both may need similar recharge levels to hit a gapless chain.
That being told, Fire is just slightly behind, Energy has a score of 2.07 and Fire 2.03. they are so close I'd call it almost a tie, only Energy has better mitigation built in and fire also gets to be nasty AoE.
[/ QUOTE ]
/eng has 4 st ranged attacks with rech of:
6,8,10 and 14
/fire has 3 st ranged attacks with rech of:
6,8, and 12
/eng needs much less recharge to form a full ranged attack chain than /fire thanks to an extra attack.
Actually looking at those numbers, I'm not even sure if a /fire can make a seamless chain under its own volition. Without actually looking at a chains it will be a very heavy IO build at any rate.
For fire I've got a chain that has:
Flare -224% rech
Blast -236% rech
Blaze -184% rech
Even it has a 0.66 sec gap (includes Arcanatime).
Flare>Blast>Flare>Blaze>gap>Flare&g t;Blast>Flare>Blaze
edit: used wrong base rech for flare, this is seamless, but still very high rech required. very.
That is extremely high recharge numbers needed. The kind usually found on a live perma dom 
I'll have to look closer, but I'm almost afraid my /fire doms is actually going to LOSE damage of its live chain of:
blast>blaze>blast>flare>blast>blaze >blast>flare
Actually Starsman would it be possible for you to do up one more chart demonstrating a heavily IO'd dom live vs test.
I'm thinking:
60% rech enhancement
70% hasten
80% global rech
210% rech, or 3.1 modifier.
Basically single stack perma dom with accompanied recharge levels vs that same build on test?
I'm using 50% recharge.
Look at the far right, if you sum the percentages by the names and don't get 100%, then there do are gaps. (no I have not checked that rushing to a meeting.)
Still, using those powers Fire is keeping up almost tied with energy, gaps or no gaps.
The first of my charts is ready.
Things to note:
<ul type="square">[*]Thorntrops does not get benefit of the change as (if i understand right) it never got damage buff transfers. Correct me if I'm wrong there.
[*]The patch notes say Thorn Burst went from 3 seconds to 5, but the power was at 15 seconds so i take it this was a typo. I am guessing the right recharge increase was from 15 to 17 based on the damage scale posted.
[*]Ranking is meant to let you see how the set ranks on that damage category against the others. The lowest possible score is 1, the highest the score, the better the set is.
[*]At the far right you will see a split of what powers my calculator assume are optimal for use in order of priority. The percentage denotes how much of the chain time is allocated to that one attack.
[*]The Diff columns denote if there was a buff or nerf. Orange means nerf, blue means buff.[/list]
Old With Dom 50% recharge
Old without dom 50% recharge
I may list high recharge cases later but I have not decided what number is "right" since, well, can't just go for permadom numbers because those are likely using very specialized builds to achieve those levels of recharge.