Hide = 500 stealth
Invisibility = 1000 stealth.
Your complaint is about how everyone but stalkers has a lower stealth cap (571 feet, except for SoA's). That has more to do with perception caps rather than the Hide power that stalkers get.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
I think your missin what I was explaining about stealth vs invisiblity vs hide.
While Im in Stealth or Invisibility, Players can still see my Super Speed Aura, etc. but when a stalker is in Hide mode you cant see anything at all not even the slightest chance to defend yourself against that Assassins Strike.
That's because they have enough perception to see you.
Base player perception is 500 feet. Non-stalker stealth caps at 571 feet. Note that's only 71 feet higher than the base perception. That means if they have any form of +perception (which most people have), then they'll be able to see you from X amount of feet away.
Stalkers have a much higher stealth cap (over 1100 feet, or just ten feet under the perception cap). With Hide + Stealth + Stealth IO (a common thing for PvP stalkers), they'll be sitting at the stealth cap. That means you'll need to be at the perception cap to see them, which is much harder to do. Even at the cap, you'd only be able to see them from within ten feet.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
This post is so epic. I don't know where to begin. lol
i'll let Reiraku handle this one. LMAO
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
Well then, Im gonna skip this other ignorant reply and just talk back with you Reiraku.
Ok you talk about perception. Im decently IO'ed out in every power. You talk about perception but then a stalker can be standing right next to me in Hide and I never see him. Till he lets loose his Strike that is. You said Invisibilty is 1000. then how are they able to see me from 10 feet much less 10000 feet. Something still isnt adding up.
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Well then, Im gonna skip this other ignorant reply and just talk back with you Reiraku.
Ok you talk about perception. Im decently IO'ed out in every power. You talk about perception but then a stalker can be standing right next to me in Hide and I never see him. Till he lets loose his Strike that is. You said Invisibilty is 1000. then how are they able to see me from 10 feet much less 10000 feet. Something still isnt adding up.
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Because even though Invisibility gives 1000 stealth, your non-stalker caps at 571 stealth. So that stalker only needs 71 more perception to see you. For the record, /SR, /Nin, /WP, and /DA all have perception boosting powers. On top of that, Tactics from the Leadership pool also gives perception. Each one of these powers is more than enough to see a non-stalker AT at capped stealth.
Since stalkers have a much higher stealth cap, they could run just Invisibility and get the full benefit of the 1000 stealth it offers. Getting to the perception cap is much harder than getting to the stealth cap is for non-stalker AT's.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
Also, Brutes don't have Hibernate. At all. Ever.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
BeeKeeper,I am curious what type of AT do you pvp with?
oh,and my brute says he wants that hibernoob pls
Im a BS/Shield Scrapper. I have my wins and my losses. Ive had my timer window full all with in a few seconds apart. Im fairly new to the scene. Been PVP for a few months now mostly in RV.
Yes I know Shield set isnt the best power choice but I like it and it fits my play style, so be it.
It has great PvE playablity as well as a few things for PvP. Ive been respecing my PvP Build when I feel it needs more tweaking. So far its pretty respectable build I have. A few things Im prolly going to change...
With, Broadsword I can usually kill something in 3-5 hits if Im quick about it and luck happens to fall in my favor and their UBER power is down or if they dont play cat and mouse..
I go by Tech-Noir on Freedom and had a nice chat with Guyver 99 on there earlier about the Scrapper vs. Stalker stuff.
He owned me none the less got him to 3/4 to a half on both fights when I was either down to 1/4 or dead. That was with One with Shield activated fully Defense set IOed out, plus some of my Accolade powers n' such. Was a good fight none the less.
Not sure what Sets hes running but Im sure they are prolly better than mine. Honestly I dont care. Could be a reason he had the upper hand on me and I didnt resist/dodge his Assassin strike. I also couldnt target him so at the beginning of the the fight had first attack from drop of the hat both fights. It was a good fight and win. Learn something new every day.
Im just talking about just targeting them to have the same advantage on the playing field as they do. Not standing there beatin on them with a stick while they heal to full heath and power. That just waste my time even tryin to kill someone like that not to mention the animation time of Broadsword.
Wait, we are missing an opportunity here, the fact is screw hide, your failings are due to lack of proper pursuit techniques, lack of competent teaming, lack of damage, lack of pew pew, lack of just realizing sometimes peoples escape methods will pwn your attack techniques.
All that aside [censored] happens get over it, or you will continue to be upset, because the fact remains no matter how good you get at killing in this suppression pvp, their is someone that will activate something and get away. 
Edit: i actually finished reading the OP's rant, what pvp are you playing where you think heroes are inferior to vills? I have been playing going on three years now and it holds true to this day as it did when i first started, that heroes own vills on shear design alone. Vills just got introduced to competent epics, i remember all the crying that was done because vills epics were just meh in comparison.
Blasters used to one shot most stalkers on site and his team if they were too close. Thats why vills really don't huddle, from just purely being traumatized by fire blasters. Defenders had unresistable debuffs, CM+Fort turned most toon into gods.
Now we are in i14, it's true everyone has been weakened, but if you were stronger before Dr and things, than guess what? LMAO at the OP, i only love vills so much, just because their the underdog. How many years have ppl been calling out castle for loving heroes more?
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
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because the fact remains no matter how good you get at killing in this suppression pvp, their is someone that will activate something and get away.
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That I will agree with. The rest of it, you can pretty much go to hell with.
Because the truth hurts?
I think they should grey out all damaging powers, because they make me die. Dying isn't fun.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
So your pretty much Saying Ravens that the game can get better for you but it cant for me. Play that crap somewhere else because theres always room for improvement. This would benefit everyone and not only me.
I never said nothing about putting a halt to any attack powers or defense powers for that matter. Just any power that makes you unable to be hit. Phase is the only kinda surefire save power hero side has. Villains have one for pretty much every class with out having to phase.
As for Hybernate.. Keep it if you'd like. Go ahead and Hybernate. You'd regen your power and health back faster, but if Im gonna be sittin there hitting you for a 300+ double crit dmg you better be taking a fraction of the dmg instead of resisting it totally. To me thats crap.
He pretty much said earlier that you will never be able to see a Stalker coming because thier hide is so great and they will always see you. So any chance of seeing them is null. Any chance for someone who knows nothing of PvP nor IO'd out is able to be ganked at anytime or place. But yet no hero side Archtype has that same advantage for PvP. Yes I understand if they are lvl 50 and in RV that at some point in time PvPed.. I'm just speculating here. I wasnt IO'd out when I first started PvP either.
I can deal with the Hybernate because the power is only useful every so often, but I will never like Hide the way it works currently.
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So your pretty much Saying Ravens that the game can get better for you but it cant for me. Play that crap somewhere else because theres always room for improvement. This would benefit everyone and not only me.
[/ QUOTE ]I didn't say that, but in a way thats the case, the primary reason is your mentality. The stuff your crying about is meaningless and easily avoided and or defeated. But instead of thinking outside the box, figuring out YOUR weakness not ours, you come serving up this marvelous whine to garnish any meals we may have ate.
The reason the game got better for me, is i had the ability to adapt to the nonsense and what i can't adapt too i just work around it. Cry about DR, cry about mez resist, cry about suppression, cry about heal decay those are things that matter. But because some stalker phased on you, or his 8 sec hide unsuppressed because your pursuit was fail ain't really the key to your victory.
Also, the forums are tough.. so if you thought that pvp'rs of all people would be all nice and sweet serving cookies and stuff, than that was as much fail as your apparent lack of pursuit angles and such. Most here keep it real, love it or leave it. And i'm not downing you, by any means i just see your plight a little different.
The funny thing is, even though you seem like one of the whiners that got the changes made in the first place, you're probably still bad..------Macskull on Crop_of_shaolin
http://ravens-wins.mybrute.com
You do realize that the same number of AT's have access to Hibernate on both sides, right?
Beyond that, stalkers are no big deal. If you keep moving, they can't nail you with their big hitter very easily. Even if they do, they are still pretty far away from you when it actually goes off, giving you time to recover/retaliate. Once out of Hide, a stalker has to finish the job in very short order or become a stain. They don't have the staying power of other AT's to just go toe to toe and expect to do well.
Anyone can get ganked at anytime, anyplace. There's nothing new about that, nor is it something to be changed. It's just what we all have to experience to get better at PvP.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
You have hit an issue that bugs me too. Stealth. Across the board for heroes in pvp it is a static number. The perception cap is reachable for a few ats (stacking perception powers on devs and the leadership pool...stacked cms....) so that you can see a stalker from 10 feet only. The only ats that can see them further are veats (crabs, soa, fortunatas..etc).
I think stealth should be different for ats. Superior invis on the ill set has a stealth of 1000 but is the same cap as any other stealth.
I totally agree a stalker should have the highest stealth in the game...but say an ill troller using superior invis should get the full 1000 stealth at level 50, I mean why take it otherwise? Same goes for devs blasters. Cloaking device, should stack with stealth. ..the dark stealth should stack...
problem is they are too busy screwing up pvp to make senable decisions.
If ur having issues with stalkers team with me, i can keep them unhidden until they either phase or run all the way back to base. Any controller, defender, blaster, and even tanks that have toggle debuffs can help you keep a stalker visiable.
[ QUOTE ]
So your pretty much Saying Ravens that the game can get better for you but it cant for me. Play that crap somewhere else because theres always room for improvement. This would benefit everyone and not only me.
I never said nothing about putting a halt to any attack powers or defense powers for that matter. Just any power that makes you unable to be hit. Phase is the only kinda surefire save power hero side has. Villains have one for pretty much every class with out having to phase.
As for Hybernate.. Keep it if you'd like. Go ahead and Hybernate. You'd regen your power and health back faster, but if Im gonna be sittin there hitting you for a 300+ double crit dmg you better be taking a fraction of the dmg instead of resisting it totally. To me thats crap.
He pretty much said earlier that you will never be able to see a Stalker coming because thier hide is so great and they will always see you. So any chance of seeing them is null. Any chance for someone who knows nothing of PvP nor IO'd out is able to be ganked at anytime or place. But yet no hero side Archtype has that same advantage for PvP. Yes I understand if they are lvl 50 and in RV that at some point in time PvPed.. I'm just speculating here. I wasnt IO'd out when I first started PvP either.
I can deal with the Hybernate because the power is only useful every so often, but I will never like Hide the way it works currently.
[/ QUOTE ]
So you don't want any at to have an escape power? they pretty much changed that you know, you can phase and attack a phased target..
i think it is just another new player who doesn't know how to pvp (i am being nice kk) and actually one of the reasons we got pvp how it is right now...care bears and bad players cried too much, we got retarded pvp now and guess what? bad players are still bad....
omg my scrapper owns in pve let's go pvp..oh snap i just got killed by a filthy stalker NO WAY i pwn so much how could it be..it is broken lets NERF stalkers, let's remove powers..let's blah blah blah....dude look around, open your eyes ( i know sounds retarded) and learn from what you see..don't be so concered about yourself...
got problem with stalkers? get tactics, team up with stormers, bubblers w/e got aoe..besides since you are shield it actually can in fact unstealth stalkers to some grade..if they come close enough to you they get affected by your aura so their stealth drops to basic hide which makes them visible for any person with tactics... did you ever pvp with a stalker? looking at this thread i doubt it..and looking at what you say i also would assume you never bothered to learn how stalkers work, their numbers, powers etc...think like a stalker then you can kill them :P
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I think your missin what I was explaining about stealth vs invisiblity vs hide.
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And I think you need to learn how to play and quit whining like a little punk baby lmao. Wow. Talk about crying.
I sure hope one of the others has the time and patience to "slowly" explain pvp and the reasons why you are getting pwnt (and suck) to you...because I don't have that type of patience for incompetence anymore...sadly 
Goodluck, and stop crying like a punk loser, it's not cool.
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Dont get me wrong Im all for players being able to pick any power available to them, wether its on villains side or hero side.
/Rant on
My Rant is the auto Hide power. If I choose invisiblity then I should be hidden totally just like a Stalker. I honestly think its crap to constatly loose your target after target after target just because they Hide. Ive have soooo many villains down to the wire to where they start running for their lives to only loose them due to them Hiding.
Well shouldn't I have the same option with Invisibilty?! If I chose to run for the sake of living and toggle off Stealth for Invisibility then it SHOULD make enemies loose target as well. This constant being able to target hero's just because they dont have hide is nonsense. It cheats players outta so many kills thats its borderline gamebreaking in the sense.
Talked to a Stalker today as a matter of fact. He told me Stalkers got Hide because they dont Crit.. If thats true then why is it every other post I see that Stalkers in fact DO crit.
Hide+Placate (sp?) make stalkers pretty much high end dmg dealers and shoves scrappers to the bottom of the barrel below Brutes because it makes targeting them next to freakin impossible. Hell Brutes can just stand there and take all the dmg they want from Hybernate while building up Fury.. Total nonsense.
Its almost like PvP was made only for Villains because heroes hardly stand a chance against all the extra "tools" that Villains got over on them. Almost like Heroes are only allowed to get them to 1/4 hp so they can A: Hide B: Hybernate C: Phase Shift. Im sure there are more powers along those lines that do pretty much the same thing, I just dont currently know the names of them. These are the main ones I see 99% of the time though.
/Rant off
For PvP I feel that Powers that are considered UBER Powers or of that nature should be in fact disregarded from the PvP system. That would include Hide, Hybernate, Phase Shift, etc. Any power that makes you undetectable, unable to be touched, or unable to be hindered in anyway shape or form should be deleted or greyed out from PVP zones.
For some players Ive noticed if they didnt have these powers then they pretty much couldnt PvP and thats all that saves their butts from being killed. I believe if those UBER powers were greyed out then PVP would be MORE fun because of more kills for everyone + the fact that when you chase someone down for that final blow it MIGHT be possible to actually get that kill instead of them just disappearing from your sight totally.
I took Phase Shift on my PvP build because its the only chance I have at reletively even getting away from the Heavy dmg stalkers can do right off the bat + if your tryin to kill a brute with Hybernate then you have 4 villains just pop outta no where and try to eradicate you while you were trying to kill the brute. But then again Phase Shift CAN be gotten through and the player can still be killed. I feel the same should be made for Hybernate and Hide should be set up like Invisibility where players can still see you and your "auras" but has to be activiated for that assassins strike they love so much.
But to each their own. Im sure some would agree with me on these points and Im sure some wont. Please lets hear some intelligent replies other than Flames? What do some of you do to get around these issues? Are there some of you who dont even take those powers just because they are such a hinderance and borderline gamebreaking?
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Saw this before I went to work and waited patiently all day until I got home, sure that I would be greeted with a lol-fest-o-flames.
Sheesh, even the pvp flames got nerfed.
*sigh*
Look, dude, you're a n00b. You can't chase a stalker and keep them unhid, even with the new travel suppression nerfs that were *designed with n00bs like you in mind*; you can't kill a stalker that stands there and trades blow for blow with you toe to toe (if I know guyver), even though he has a fraction of the HP you do; you have zero concept of perception and stealth-caps, both rather plebian, binary and basic mechanics, but would decry those that have put the 14 seconds worth of effort to learn and employ a modicum of planning to employ these basic fundamentals in order to either stay hidden or see those that are hidden.
In short, you're a whining, crying, frothing-at-the-mouth, window-licking, helmet-wearing paint-chip-eating short-bus n00b and have decided to mask your stupidity with rage.
Glad I could help.
If you should have any more questions in the future, please do feel free to send 'em my way.
@Bonker Guide to Base Building for the Small SG
Present project: Solo Everything Project
Remaining: Lusca, Sewers, Eden, Kahn, States, HeroSpec2&3, Apex, Tin Mage, Moritmer Kal, Tesseract, Recluse, 'Cuda, Quarry, Stropharia, Thorn, Arachnos Flier, Deathsurge, Caleb, Seed of Hamidon (Villrespec2&3, Hami, CoP, Incarnates)
I have a question...
[ QUOTE ]
you can't kill a stalker that stands there and trades blow for blow with you toe to toe
[/ QUOTE ]
You cant?
Dont get me wrong Im all for players being able to pick any power available to them, wether its on villains side or hero side.
/Rant on
My Rant is the auto Hide power. If I choose invisiblity then I should be hidden totally just like a Stalker. I honestly think its crap to constatly loose your target after target after target just because they Hide. Ive have soooo many villains down to the wire to where they start running for their lives to only loose them due to them Hiding.
Well shouldn't I have the same option with Invisibilty?! If I chose to run for the sake of living and toggle off Stealth for Invisibility then it SHOULD make enemies loose target as well. This constant being able to target hero's just because they dont have hide is nonsense. It cheats players outta so many kills thats its borderline gamebreaking in the sense.
Talked to a Stalker today as a matter of fact. He told me Stalkers got Hide because they dont Crit.. If thats true then why is it every other post I see that Stalkers in fact DO crit.
Hide+Placate (sp?) make stalkers pretty much high end dmg dealers and shoves scrappers to the bottom of the barrel below Brutes because it makes targeting them next to freakin impossible. Hell Brutes can just stand there and take all the dmg they want from Hybernate while building up Fury.. Total nonsense.
Its almost like PvP was made only for Villains because heroes hardly stand a chance against all the extra "tools" that Villains got over on them. Almost like Heroes are only allowed to get them to 1/4 hp so they can A: Hide B: Hybernate C: Phase Shift. Im sure there are more powers along those lines that do pretty much the same thing, I just dont currently know the names of them. These are the main ones I see 99% of the time though.
/Rant off
For PvP I feel that Powers that are considered UBER Powers or of that nature should be in fact disregarded from the PvP system. That would include Hide, Hybernate, Phase Shift, etc. Any power that makes you undetectable, unable to be touched, or unable to be hindered in anyway shape or form should be deleted or greyed out from PVP zones.
For some players Ive noticed if they didnt have these powers then they pretty much couldnt PvP and thats all that saves their butts from being killed. I believe if those UBER powers were greyed out then PVP would be MORE fun because of more kills for everyone + the fact that when you chase someone down for that final blow it MIGHT be possible to actually get that kill instead of them just disappearing from your sight totally.
I took Phase Shift on my PvP build because its the only chance I have at reletively even getting away from the Heavy dmg stalkers can do right off the bat + if your tryin to kill a brute with Hybernate then you have 4 villains just pop outta no where and try to eradicate you while you were trying to kill the brute. But then again Phase Shift CAN be gotten through and the player can still be killed. I feel the same should be made for Hybernate and Hide should be set up like Invisibility where players can still see you and your "auras" but has to be activiated for that assassins strike they love so much.
But to each their own. Im sure some would agree with me on these points and Im sure some wont. Please lets hear some intelligent replies other than Flames? What do some of you do to get around these issues? Are there some of you who dont even take those powers just because they are such a hinderance and borderline gamebreaking?