RIP sets for only some MM's.
By
ArcticFahx,
Posted on: 2009-06-06 14:26 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
so get the storm secondary and slot em in tornado...
No, not being able to slot 2x of those IOs doesnt affect the MMs I have that can't. I have 2 MMs with 2x and 2 without. I have no issue playing either.
Wassabi Grav/Kin 50 (before badges/accolades were in game) Pinnacle
Miss Command Bots/Traps 50 Justice
*others left off due to space issues
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so get the storm secondary and slot em in tornado...
No, not being able to slot 2x of those IOs doesnt affect the MMs I have that can't. I have 2 MMs with 2x and 2 without. I have no issue playing either.
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That'd be sort of silly, considering it's an Aura. >.> Tornado isn't reliable enough to stay near the rest of your pets. Still, I don't think it's that big of a deal. There's far better things to get out of those sets then just the auras.
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so get the storm secondary and slot em in tornado...
No, not being able to slot 2x of those IOs doesnt affect the MMs I have that can't. I have 2 MMs with 2x and 2 without. I have no issue playing either.
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That'd be sort of silly, considering it's an Aura. >.> Tornado isn't reliable enough to stay near the rest of your pets. Still, I don't think it's that big of a deal. There's far better things to get out of those sets then just the auras.
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the aura is around you.
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
And the aura is ALWAYS on. Regardless of the power itself, I.E. tornado.
Wassabi Grav/Kin 50 (before badges/accolades were in game) Pinnacle
Miss Command Bots/Traps 50 Justice
*others left off due to space issues
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so get the storm secondary and slot em in tornado...
No, not being able to slot 2x of those IOs doesnt affect the MMs I have that can't. I have 2 MMs with 2x and 2 without. I have no issue playing either.
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That'd be sort of silly, considering it's an Aura. >.> Tornado isn't reliable enough to stay near the rest of your pets. Still, I don't think it's that big of a deal. There's far better things to get out of those sets then just the auras.
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the aura is around you.
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Huh. That, I was unaware of. Slightly increases the use of it, but still not sure it'd be something I'd specifically slot for. I'll have to look into it more in detail.
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so get the storm secondary and slot em in tornado...
No, not being able to slot 2x of those IOs doesnt affect the MMs I have that can't. I have 2 MMs with 2x and 2 without. I have no issue playing either.
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That'd be sort of silly, considering it's an Aura. >.> Tornado isn't reliable enough to stay near the rest of your pets. Still, I don't think it's that big of a deal. There's far better things to get out of those sets then just the auras.
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the aura is around you.
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Huh. That, I was unaware of. Slightly increases the use of it, but still not sure it'd be something I'd specifically slot for. I'll have to look into it more in detail.
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Consider it numerically slightly less than tough, but for all damage types, for zero end.
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so get the storm secondary and slot em in tornado...
[/ QUOTE ]Or play Thugs and put them in Gang War. It's not like you have to sacrifice other slotting to make room for them there.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Nope, doesn't seem unfair, recharge intensive pet sets go into pets that are recharge intensive. You could always just play /dark or /storm. Then again, if tornado is a pet, OSA and acid mortar should be too.
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Nope, doesn't seem unfair, recharge intensive pet sets go into pets that are recharge intensive. You could always just play /dark or /storm. Then again, if tornado is a pet, OSA and acid mortar should be too.
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Or Seeker Drones, especially considering the fact that PB Photon Seekers can use the RIP sets.
I think this is unfair, yes.
Its created a bonus for certain secondaries or primaries that was probably unintended. By that I mean I don't think anyone on the dev team thought "Hey, lets give /Storm, /Traps and Thugs/ Masterminds a much-needed boost!" when they first made these sets.
There are some other cases like this. I really enjoy making Defenders as tough as possible using positional defence set bonuses, for example. Kinetics has a bonus here in that you can slot the Steadfast Protection IO in Increase Density, a power which has a default slot just sitting there waiting to be used. Sonic also accepts this IO, but most other primaries mean you have to get Tough to slot it or wait till Epic Shields.
(or stick it in a slot hungry stealth/Def/Res aura and waste a slot)
Another example is the Achilles Heel proc that adds a chance of -Res. This hugely benefits Rad Blast in a way that wasn't intended. They also now get Damage procs available from Lady Grey and Shield Breaker. Archery in contrast gets no extra damage procs or debuff procs.
So yeah, I feel you pain, FreshFish. But you're not alone in this. A system this complex is never going to be balanced perfectly.
And honestly, since the recent change to pets that prevent them from receiving any buff or debuff to the pet's recharge, there is no reason not to open up the RIP sets to all MM pet summons.
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You could always just play /dark or /storm.
[/ QUOTE ]Dark Servant doesn't accept RIP sets
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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You could always just play /dark or /storm.
[/ QUOTE ]Dark Servant doesn't accept RIP sets
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Seriously...? Just in MMs or all dark servants? How did they miss that...
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You could always just play /dark or /storm.
[/ QUOTE ]Dark Servant doesn't accept RIP sets
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Seriously...? Just in MMs or all dark servants? How did they miss that...
[/ QUOTE ]Dark Servant doesn't deal damage. He's got one attack (Tenebrous Tentacles), and one damaging aura (Chill of the Night), neither of which are very likely to kill anything, ever. Fluffy doesn't take normal pet sets, either.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
First off, we're talking about 15-20% damage mitigation to all damage types if both auras are slotted. This is just two enhancement slots, and these things are always on and cost no endo. And only some MM's can slot it? Seriously, how is this not broken? If only some scrappers were able to slot for two enhancement slots a free 15-20% damage mitigation to all types, there would be no end to the complaining that was going on. And this is what is happening for some MM's at the moment.
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Nope, doesn't seem unfair, recharge intensive pet sets go into pets that are recharge intensive. You could always just play /dark or /storm. Then again, if tornado is a pet, OSA and acid mortar should be too.
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In the least for tornado, it doesnt even have Hitpoints that can be attacked. Acid Mortar and Seeker Drones do have HP that can be attacked, and Acid Mortar stays out and can be killed (and can kill, especially with three damage procs in it, heheh). But I still contend that anything that gives 15-20% damage mitigation to all types for two slots for only some powersets of an AT isn't fair, even if a person can pick a certain secondary. Because not everyone wants to be a clone of everyone else and play a certain powerset. It's called balance for a reason.
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First off, we're talking about 15-20% damage mitigation to all damage types if both auras are slotted. This is just two enhancement slots, and these things are always on and cost no endo. And only some MM's can slot it? Seriously, how is this not broken? If only some scrappers were able to slot for two enhancement slots a free 15-20% damage mitigation to all types, there would be no end to the complaining that was going on. And this is what is happening for some MM's at the moment.
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Nope, doesn't seem unfair, recharge intensive pet sets go into pets that are recharge intensive. You could always just play /dark or /storm. Then again, if tornado is a pet, OSA and acid mortar should be too.
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In the least for tornado, it doesnt even have Hitpoints that can be attacked. Acid Mortar and Seeker Drones do have HP that can be attacked, and Acid Mortar stays out and can be killed (and can kill, especially with three damage procs in it, heheh). But I still contend that anything that gives 15-20% damage mitigation to all types for two slots for only some powersets of an AT isn't fair, even if a person can pick a certain secondary. Because not everyone wants to be a clone of everyone else and play a certain powerset. It's called balance for a reason.
[/ QUOTE ]My /SR has to go to pool powers to slot a Steadfast for +3% defense, it's not fair~!
My Stone Melee tank can't slot a cheap purple sleep set like that Icy Melee tank can, not fair!
My Energy Melee tanker can't get a 4-slot 7.5% recharge bonus from KO Blow, but your SS tanker can! Totally not fair!
My BS/Invuln can't slot Theft of Essence procs, but that Dark Melee/Dark Armor scrapper can slot two! Not fair!
In other words, not every powerset can slot every type of IO, so quit your [censored].
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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My /SR has to go to pool powers to slot a Steadfast for +3% defense, it's not fair~!
My Stone Melee tank can't slot a cheap purple sleep set like that Icy Melee tank can, not fair!
My Energy Melee tanker can't get a 4-slot 7.5% recharge bonus from KO Blow, but your SS tanker can! Totally not fair!
My BS/Invuln can't slot Theft of Essence procs, but that Dark Melee/Dark Armor scrapper can slot two! Not fair!
In other words, not every powerset can slot every type of IO, so quit your [censored].
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But your SR CAN go to a pool power to slot the steadfast, your stone melee CAN slot some purple sets - the fact that some are cheap and others are not is a factor of popularity, not ability. All the other examples you give can get similar bonuses by slotting some other sets in some way i.e your energy melee can slot a lot of stun sets that the SS can't because all his attacks do stun - however there is NO way for an MM to slot a bonus designed entirely for pets unless they pick a specific primary or secondary set.
The recharge intensive pet sets are yet another example of the dev's not completely thinking things through - there is NO reason that normal MM pets should not be able to slot them other then an arbitrary decision - recharge intensive pet sets are damage based sets just like the regular pet sets (which is why dark miasma's dark servant cannot slot either) so the fact that SOME pets can slot both and some pets can slot one or the other is purely arbitrary. Yes, you can argue that the MM pets don't NEED the recharge - but they DO benefit from it (just not much) and allowing them to slot the recharge intensive sets are not going to give them any advantage except for balancing out the various sets by allowing them all to slot the unique's - using the other IO's in the sets in regular pets is actually going to be a disadvanage in many cases.
I could see not allowing regular MM pets to slot the recharge intensive pet sets if there was NO way for any MM to slot them (so NO mm pets could benefit from the uniques) - but the fact that SOME of them can means that it is stupid to leave things as it is.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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My /SR has to go to pool powers to slot a Steadfast for +3% defense, it's not fair~!
My Stone Melee tank can't slot a cheap purple sleep set like that Icy Melee tank can, not fair!
My Energy Melee tanker can't get a 4-slot 7.5% recharge bonus from KO Blow, but your SS tanker can! Totally not fair!
My BS/Invuln can't slot Theft of Essence procs, but that Dark Melee/Dark Armor scrapper can slot two! Not fair!
In other words, not every powerset can slot every type of IO, so quit your [censored].
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But your SR CAN go to a pool power to slot the steadfast, your stone melee CAN slot some purple sets - the fact that some are cheap and others are not is a factor of popularity, not ability. All the other examples you give can get similar bonuses by slotting some other sets in some way i.e your energy melee can slot a lot of stun sets that the SS can't because all his attacks do stun - however there is NO way for an MM to slot a bonus designed entirely for pets unless they pick a specific primary or secondary set.
The recharge intensive pet sets are yet another example of the dev's not completely thinking things through - there is NO reason that normal MM pets should not be able to slot them other then an arbitrary decision - recharge intensive pet sets are damage based sets just like the regular pet sets (which is why dark miasma's dark servant cannot slot either) so the fact that SOME pets can slot both and some pets can slot one or the other is purely arbitrary. Yes, you can argue that the MM pets don't NEED the recharge - but they DO benefit from it (just not much) and allowing them to slot the recharge intensive sets are not going to give them any advantage except for balancing out the various sets by allowing them all to slot the unique's - using the other IO's in the sets in regular pets is actually going to be a disadvanage in many cases.
I could see not allowing regular MM pets to slot the recharge intensive pet sets if there was NO way for any MM to slot them (so NO mm pets could benefit from the uniques) - but the fact that SOME of them can means that it is stupid to leave things as it is.
[/ QUOTE ]Fine, then. My Ice blaster can't slot a set specifically designed with blasters in mind (Sting of the Manticore).
Said Stone tanker can't slot the Sandman proc which is great for survivability.
Plenty of controllers can't slot various control sets.
And if you need recharge in your pets, tone your difficulty down.
Mastermind pets aren't the pets Recharge-Intensive Pet sets were for. They're for the ones on long recharge timers, like Warshades' fluffies, Tornado, Lightning Storm, or Patron pets. Mastermind pets don't need recharge enhancement, because the summons refresh fast enough as is.
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Originally Posted by Back Alley Brawler
Did you just use "casual gamer" and "purpled-out warshade" in the same sentence?
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Fine, then. My Ice blaster can't slot a set specifically designed with blasters in mind (Sting of the Manticore).
Said Stone tanker can't slot the Sandman proc which is great for survivability.
Plenty of controllers can't slot various control sets.
And if you need recharge in your pets, tone your difficulty down.
Mastermind pets aren't the pets Recharge-Intensive Pet sets were for. They're for the ones on long recharge timers, like Warshades' fluffies, Tornado, Lightning Storm, or Patron pets. Mastermind pets don't need recharge enhancement, because the summons refresh fast enough as is.
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This argument fails as its the same argument I responded to previously. Your right, your ice blaster cannot slot sting of the manticore - but the benefits offered by that set can be found in other sets (global recharge, global damage, etc) where the unique IO's in the RIP sets give benefits NOT found elsewhere.
As for recharge in MM pet sets - my point was not that it was needed but that you can still benefit from them - sure, not as much as tornado, LS and other pets benefit but you CAN benefit from them. I don't WANT recharge in my MM pets - if I did i would slot recharge. I was just pointing out that claiming that the MM pets don't benefit at all from recharge is wrong.
Look - there are three facts here:
1) an additional 10% resistance and 5% def is a large benefit to MM pets which becomes even more effective when stacked with the regular pet set uniques
2) SOME MM's can use the RIP uniques and some cannot - making those that can much more effective
3) The fact that SOME mm's can slot he unique's mean that the dev's don't consider it unreasonable to stack the pet aura benefits, which I see as the only valid reason for not allowing all MM's to slot the RIP uniques.
The amusing thing here is that one of the MM sets almost everyone considers the best (Thugs) is one of the few that can slot both sets of unique's without picking a specific secondary. I certinaly don't consider that balanced in any way and I HAVE a thugs/traps who is benefitting from this.
I have seen no reasonable arguements so far for NOT giving MM's these bonuses, just arguments for not allowing them to slot the RIP sets or invalid comparsins to other set bonuses that are not unique.
I really think the dev's should have made the RIP unique's not stack with the regular pet set unique's - then the fact that some MM's could slot the RIP sets would have just meant that they had more options for getting a nice, but small, bonus. Letting them stack is what makes the combination very powerfull. However, at this point in time there is no way to remove this ability without a lot of whining and crying to the only reasonable change is to allow all MM's to use them - which means allowing MM pets to slot the RIP sets.
Globals: @Midnight Mystique/@Magik13
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Mastermind pets aren't the pets Recharge-Intensive Pet sets were for. They're for the ones on long recharge timers, like Warshades' fluffies, Tornado, Lightning Storm, or Patron pets. Mastermind pets don't need recharge enhancement, because the summons refresh fast enough as is.
[/ QUOTE ]Of course, Tornado's recharge is equal to the recharge of T1 henchmen (60s), and shorter than T2 and T3 henchmen (90s and 120s, respectively). Also, Lightning Storm doesn't take RIP sets, despite being a 90s recharge (perhaps because it's immobile?)
I suppose it would be most accurate to compare the ratio of pet duration to recharge, since Tornado only lasts 30s while henchmen last for over 27 hours.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Wait... Seeker Drones can accept Recharge Intesive Pet sets? Since when?
-This Space Intentionally Left Blank.-
If you REALLY feel that your MM is gimp because you can't use those sets, then either a) make a thugs or b) make a storm.
I on the other hand, with a MM of about every primary, have been just fine and content with only the 1 set for so long, sure it would be nice, but if your playing it right, the pet's don't need the defense/resist.
You sir do not speak for me and as a few people said, not every IO set is ment for every power pool.
Wassabi Grav/Kin 50 (before badges/accolades were in game) Pinnacle
Miss Command Bots/Traps 50 Justice
*others left off due to space issues
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My /SR has to go to pool powers to slot a Steadfast for +3% defense, it's not fair~!
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A more appropriate example would be if SR could not slot the Steadfast unique at all, unless it was paired with DM or Katana. In that example, DM/SR & Kat/SR would get a benefit that other sets paired with SR would not.
This is what is happening with the RIP sets and MM's right now.
As long as it's a recharge intensive pet it should get the sets. Traps should have it available in acid mortar, TA in OSA (maybe), and dark in dark servant (lich does practically no damage also).
While I understand why the sets were made to begin, and why only certain pets are allowed to slot them, I still have an issue with only some MM's being able to slot them. An extra 10% resist and 5% defense is a ton of benefit. For only some MM's being able to slot it, I would say a broken benefit. That would be like saying only tankers who get a regen increasing move could slot an IO for the same thing. People would get really upset. 5% defense can easily be the difference between soft-capping defense on a MM build or not, and having 10% extra resist can be the difference between losing a pet or not, which means a noticeable amount less of resummoning. I thought MM's werent suppose to get RIP sets because it would make them overpowered, but now that Castle has added the RIP sets to Soul Extraction, they probably will stay.
What do u guys think? Fair, unfair? I mean, it is giving an extra 10% resist to probably 75% of your health.