[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else find it pretty stupid when we have to make a bunch of rules just for pvp to be fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
so true
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would say "no more than two of any AT."
[/ QUOTE ]
I see you are seeing my point. No repeating AT puts no rules or limitations. Kills will be hard to get but ehhh.......... We are all here for the challenge or we would be PVEing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Just for whatever its worth.
Most people who PvP do so for the challenge. Tieing an arm behind your back and fighting would represent a challenge, but gimping oneself for the sake of challenge doesn't sound fun to me.
If the currently provided mechanics doesn't allow two teams to bring the best possible lineup and fight it out to detemine who is more skilled, then I would suggest either relooking at other mechanics available (If they exist) or trust that teams on the ladder won't use cheese lineups in order to win.
I look at it like this: When cage was at 30 seconds, I can't recall ever seeing a 8 cage team. When storms could -minus range melee to negative, I think the general rule of thumb was no more than 3 storms - but that wasn't set in stone either.
If you need to add in rules to keep teams from running X lineup because you know that that's all they will run, then you really need to rethink why they even PvP to begin with. If the 5 stalker lineup is all people will run, then so be it. But, when no one wants to PVP and test dies, you might be willing to reconsider what lineups your team is willing to run in the hopes that other teams want to PvP just as badly.
Either way, I think the current no HD, no TS, DR on works great, but my vote doesn't count.
[ QUOTE ]
or trust that teams on the ladder won't use cheese lineups in order to win.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is this is already prevalent. Nothing against 2 stalker/taunt tank/tk lineups that are being used.. they're effective and there's a reason most are running them. But, it's still a pretty cheese lineup.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
on the subject... if DR is on, more ATs can be competitive in 8v8 matches because it brings ATs such as blaster down to a relatively similar level of performance. However, this is at the expense of downsizing certain ATs.
On the other hand with DR on we'll see alot more homogenized team make up like before (this maybe a good thing for many as they've already invested in a FoTM). I believe DR gives the ladder an oppurtunity to bring in more ATs and therefore more strategies in Team PvP.
I vote for DR being on, heal suppression off, and TS off (to represent skilled healers and more strategy variety)
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you read my post and test it yourself? Thats all I ask.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did read it. Certain disruption builds along with a good healer and blasters can very well stop 5 spines stalkers and their one dimensional strategy, at least with the current spines damage in impale.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
or trust that teams on the ladder won't use cheese lineups in order to win.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem is this is already prevalent. Nothing against 2 stalker/taunt tank/tk lineups that are being used.. they're effective and there's a reason most are running them. But, it's still a pretty cheese lineup.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tho me personally totally agree with you 2 stalkers in a lineup is cheesy.... it still takes a decent amount of skill and corrdination to get it to work. esp vs a 5 stalker lineup... (which would be easy to destroy i would think vs a 3 fort and some buffers lineup... but w/e) I think turning DR on will enable more teams to get away from 2 stalkers in thier lineup.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else find it pretty stupid when we have to make a bunch of rules just for pvp to be fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
so true
[/ QUOTE ]
same thing was said today somewhere on freedom w/o reading this thread....kind of sad...:x
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else find it pretty stupid when we have to make a bunch of rules just for pvp to be fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
I disagree wholeheartedly. We aren't talking about some sort of random zone pvp here. We are talking about organized competitive pvp. Every good sport or game for that matter has rules. Some very complex.
Renegades are going to officially vote yes to No TS, DR On, HD Off. We can discuss/test pentad style once we see how that goes.
I do have an alternative idea though. Why don't we just keep the current rules but ban TK? I mean the power is complete lawlzyness anyway to the point that I'm asking mysself why we ever used it.
[ QUOTE ]
I disagree wholeheartedly. We aren't talking about some sort of random zone pvp here. We are talking about organized competitive pvp. Every good sport or game for that matter has rules. Some very complex.
[/ QUOTE ]
I understand what you're getting at here, but I wanted to point something out: under the I12 rules, there weren't really any arena-selectable options that made sense or improved the PvP experience in terms of high-end arena matches (whether duels or teams). The ladder had certain restrictions in place but those were player-created, not some prebuilt option in the arena UI (no Veng, etc.). I think what people are getting at is that it's stupid that we have to argue about which prebuilt options to leave on or off in order to make PvP fun.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
I'll pull LoL off the ladder before we vote yes to banning powers and playing with dr on. Its just very very clear that this new system broke the old days of "have at it guys" but no veng.
And yes sports have rules but they dident change the rules of hockey when #66 and 5 of his buddies on the oilers scored 50+ goals in one year. They just said we have to beat them.
If this is what test has come to I'll take no part in it.
[ QUOTE ]
And yes sports have rules but they dident change the rules of hockey when #66 and 5 of his buddies on the oilers scored 50+ goals in one year. They just said we have to beat them.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea but they didn't have the mechanics of say gravity changed on them or they would probably have to change the rules. We have forces that we can't control acting on us so we really have no choice but to make extra rules. They do also change the rules in hockey pretty often eg. there was a time when you couldn't put your foot in the goalies crease for 1 sec or you'd get a penalty.
I don't think this is a simple matter of well those guys are good and we can't beat them so lets change the rules. It's the fact that locking someone in a power where you can't do anything to survive is pretty silly. The fact that that is really the only viable strat bothers me too. Like I hate to say it, but no one is gonna beat my team unless they play the same team and do it better. I would rather see someone be able to use something different and be able to beat that lineup.
Personally, I could do matches with either rules. I don't care but at the same time I'd like to open as many doors as possible to different lineups, and it's up to us to make that happen cause the Devs don't know what they're doing. I'm willing to do what it takes to make that happen. Why aren't you? You are right, the days of walking on test and saying "let's rumble" are gone. You'd spend more time arguing about which rules to use than you would playing. So that's why it's better to hash things out here so we don't have to do that there.
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this is a simple matter of well those guys are good and we can't beat them so lets change the rules. It's the fact that locking someone in a power where you can't do anything to survive is pretty silly. The fact that that is really the only viable strat bothers me too. Like I hate to say it, but no one is gonna beat my team unless they play the same team and do it better. I would rather see someone be able to use something different and be able to beat that lineup.
Personally, I could do matches with either rules. I don't care but at the same time I'd like to open as many doors as possible to different lineups, and it's up to us to make that happen cause the Devs don't know what they're doing. I'm willing to do what it takes to make that happen. Why aren't you? You are right, the days of walking on test and saying "let's rumble" are gone. You'd spend more time arguing about which rules to use than you would playing. So that's why it's better to hash things out here so we don't have to do that there.
[/ QUOTE ]
my hat off to you spec....
This [censored] is getting way to political. It's not even fun anymore. When we have to start useing sports analogy, in reference to arena you know we are in trouble.(nice analogy syn ) This game is so far gone it does not even matter, me like probaly many of you have no other game to play, or just don't feel like staring over (max). It's not any of our faults that they Dev's fed this game over so bad we have to resort to having a million rules, power banning, and which check boxes to check. I miss the old days where it was Team Duel------10 mins-------fight. I'm afraid it will never be like that again. The only sliver of hope this game has left is rouge, and i don't even know if that will bring people back. They should just do I12 PVP check box and get it over with.....i know it won't happen..but meh. It's basically what they did anyway. Instead they just gave us a ton of check boxes to make us, make it more complicated. Anyway, end of my rant..btw Liberty Server FTW.
[ QUOTE ]
This [censored] is getting way to political. It's not even fun anymore. When we have to start useing sports analogy, in reference to arena you know we are in trouble.(nice analogy syn ) This game is so far gone it does not even matter, me like probaly many of you have no other game to play, or just don't feel like staring over (max). It's not any of our faults that they Dev's fed this game over so bad we have to resort to having a million rules, power banning, and which check boxes to check. I miss the old days where it was Team Duel------10 mins-------fight. I'm afraid it will never be like that again. The only sliver of hope this game has left is rouge, and i don't even know if that will bring people back. They should just do I12 PVP check box and get it over with.....i know it won't happen..but meh. It's basically what they did anyway. Instead they just gave us a ton of check boxes to make us, make it more complicated. Anyway, end of my rant..btw Liberty Server FTW.
[/ QUOTE ]
Divine, i know you have put alot of criticism to what it should be and how it was, but you were never that big with test anyways as it is. So i dont see how you can just say all this like you were there and you still are. Not trying to start anything, but this thread was to vote on what the leaders wanted, not on people just putting there 2 cents on every thing this game has been going through in its cycle.
Well, there are a [censored] ton of pvpers out there that don't want to join a ladder because it's too much work, and trust me they would start. Only reason i was not much on the ladder was because i deployed right when the ladder got big(Shakedown). Maybe if the ladder got it's [censored] together, more people would want to join it. You guys keep saying you only want input from people that are on the test teams. That's what...15 people all together?? I'm not trying to start [censored] either, just saying what most people are thinking. By the time you guys do figured out what check boxes to check..they will already have another one for yall to argue about. DR on, Heal Decay off.
[ QUOTE ]
Well, there are a [censored] ton of pvpers out there that don't want to join a ladder because it's too much work, and trust me they would start. Only reason i was not much on the ladder was because i deployed right when the ladder got big(Shakedown). Maybe if the ladder got it's [censored] together, more people would want to join it. You guys keep saying you only want input from people that are on the test teams. That's what...15 people all together?? I'm not trying to start [censored] either, just saying what most people are thinking. By the time you guys do figured out what check boxes to check..they will already have another one for yall to argue about. DR on, Heal Decay off.
[/ QUOTE ]
tru enough
If the ladder got it's [censored] together? w t f are you talking about? That is what we are doing. The ladder should always be ongoing and ever changing and their should always be discussion on how it could improve. That's how it was designed. If you want a quick easy thoughtless tourney, then we could always ditch the ladder and do that.
Too much work? I play this game 2 times a week and I'm a leader lol.
Anyway don't get me wrong, I miss the days of logging onto test and fighting whoever was there too. I guess I just don't know how to get that back. When PvP on test was in it's prime there was no ladder. Maybe we should just go back to fighing like that with no ladder.
I don't think it would happen like this again...look, even on freedom it is hard to find duel sometimes :/
Everyone FPS go go go.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
I guess spec why dont i want to do that is because i dont want to give my time and energy and money to a game that is only a shadow of its self.
LoL and yes they changed rules in hockey to invite more people to watch. IE shootouts and bigger nets with smaller pads. but the game changed only by changing game plans. I'll bring up the Canada Russia series where they tied. The Russians had a totally new play book than the Canadians when on the power play. They dident forecheck. After that series the game changed. It evolved. They dident make rules saying that you have to forecheck.
If they changed the rules so that the slow and stupid would do well in hockey to get more people to start playing it. And the pro league adopted those rules how long would people watch the sport? With no pro league how many people would start playing the sport? This is what the devs did to this once really really fun game. I for one am |--| this close to giving up on it.
stop having boring tuna, stop having boring life
You're going to love my nuts.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
Good points Syn. That still leaves us with one problem though. We have things changing that are out of our control. So what do we do? Either we adapt and try and make it fun for ourselves, or we may as well leave.
Syn, did you say that you wont play with DR on, HD off? Cause I think that Easy Breezy wont play with DR off, HD off. So either way we lose a team. Where can we find some middle ground?
[ QUOTE ]
Where can we find some middle ground?
[/ QUOTE ]
A different game?
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone else find it pretty stupid when we have to make a bunch of rules just for pvp to be fun?
[/ QUOTE ]
This