[ QUOTE ]
Was trying to decide between Plants/kin and plants/storm.
Settled on the plants/kin. I'm gonna be perma-grouped with a fire/fire blaster so I hope this works out for us. Can't help but feeling the /storm would be more fun overall, but the /kin seems more useful. Plus, I wanna shoot for perma carrion creepers, are they affected by fulcrum shift or siphon power?
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I agree that the /kin would be a better choice of /storm. One mezzed spawn+/kin + fire fire blaster=instapermawin.
Unlimited endurance, damage cap, mez resist, spawn holds. Storm would be a lot of fun and it's a great set, but /kin will turn the fire fire blaster into a very very powerful toon.
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson
I'm confused on Mind. I have a level 20-ish Mind/Kin and she never felt like she could offer good control on 8 man teams. I had very strong single target holds but nothing like the other sets abilities to stun or lock the initial alpha.
What am I doing wrong? I shelved her but I loved the Mind set. Do I need to push on?
When you see yourself in a crowded room / do your fingers itch,are you pistol-whipped
Will you step in line or release the glitch / can you fall asleep with a panic switch
[ QUOTE ]
I'm confused on Mind. I have a level 20-ish Mind/Kin and she never felt like she could offer good control on 8 man teams. I had very strong single target holds but nothing like the other sets abilities to stun or lock the initial alpha.
What am I doing wrong? I shelved her but I loved the Mind set. Do I need to push on?
[/ QUOTE ]
The AoE controls come from Mass Hypnosis (a sleep, which is very weak in a team setting), Total Domination (AoE hold with slow recharge), Terrify and Mass Confusion. I didn't take Total Dom until the 20's, so my only low level AoE was Mass Hyp. Once you hit the 20's and then get Mass Confusion at 32, you realize that Mind has very good AoE control. You get an extra AoE control power in exchange for a pet.
Most sets have two commonly used AoE control powers (not counting sleeps), but Earth and Mind have, in effect, three. (I'm counting AoE Stun+AoE Immobilize as one, and I'm not really counting Grav's Phase power. Some folks may argue that summary, but it is generally viewed that Earth and Mind have the most AoE control.)
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Mashuguna I found the same thing with my Mind controller. I finally just deleted her out of frustration. That's the only controller I've ever had difficulty with.
[ QUOTE ]
Earth/TA. Lock thread. 
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm actually going to go with earth/thermal
Yup thermal
Stoney taunts, and with thermal shields and those obscenely inexpensive unique IO res procs you can keep him alive forever against anything (well there might be one or two things out there, but not much)
That means you can control something that other sets can't
Purple triangles.
I'd guess that Earth/Sonic with meds could probably pull the same trick too.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
I could probably perma a couple of Ill/rads or ill/kins with the sum total of everything my blue siders own.
There's enough spare inf down the back of the couch in the SG lounge to do a couple of earth thermals.
edit: also, Earth does rather a good job of controlling everything else... something ill/ isn't exactly famous for.
The cake is a lie! The cake is a lie!
Thanks for the clarification on Mind, Local.
One of my great frustrations with CoH is how dramatically some ATs change in the mid-game. So with Mind I see that it is OK in team control until level 26-32, then it gets quite strong. Whereas Earth is pretty strong in team control from level 8 or so and just gets stronger.
We so frequently talk about how sets perfom post level 32 that we forget the absoluet PAIN of leveling late blooming classes for dozens of hours.
The fun I have in CoH is almost 100% on large teams. If an AT is not fun by level 10 on large teams I just cannot bear to 'grind it out' until it gets better.
I love my fire/kin but I would never go through the pre-Imps game with her again. My Ice tank sits unplayed at level 15 - it feels useless in the pre-level 20 game and solos at a glacial pace (see what I did there?)
I just do not have enough free time to dedicate to ATs that get better after 20+ hours of play. It feels like work playing My ice tank or my Mind controller on 8 man teams and soloing is boring for me. I need an AT to be fun and useful out of the gate.
Am I impatient or is that poor game design? Not sure
When you see yourself in a crowded room / do your fingers itch,are you pistol-whipped
Will you step in line or release the glitch / can you fall asleep with a panic switch
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the clarification on Mind, Local.
One of my great frustrations with CoH is how dramatically some ATs change in the mid-game. So with Mind I see that it is OK in team control until level 26-32, then it gets quite strong. Whereas Earth is pretty strong in team control from level 8 or so and just gets stronger.
[/ QUOTE ]
Mind has good single target damage in low levels. It then gets better and better AoE controls, but its damage seems to drop off compared to other sets.
Earth, on the other hand, has good AoE control from the start, and it gets better and better . . . but dinky amounts of damage. At 32, Rocky makes a big difference in the amount of damage you can do. . . . so Earth gets better at damage in later levels.
Personally, I love the Earth control set. Mind is OK, but not as much fun to me.
[ QUOTE ]
We so frequently talk about how sets perfom post level 32 that we forget the absoluet PAIN of leveling late blooming classes for dozens of hours.
The fun I have in CoH is almost 100% on large teams. If an AT is not fun by level 10 on large teams I just cannot bear to 'grind it out' until it gets better.
I love my fire/kin but I would never go through the pre-Imps game with her again. My Ice tank sits unplayed at level 15 - it feels useless in the pre-level 20 game and solos at a glacial pace (see what I did there?)
I just do not have enough free time to dedicate to ATs that get better after 20+ hours of play. It feels like work playing My ice tank or my Mind controller on 8 man teams and soloing is boring for me. I need an AT to be fun and useful out of the gate.
Am I impatient or is that poor game design? Not sure
[/ QUOTE ]
The game design, I think, is to keep your interest by holding back on the best goodies until later levels to get you to keep playing. If you got all the good stuff up front, wouldn't the later levels get boring? However, I can understand the temptation to power-level past the low levels to get to the good stuff.
If you are always on large teams, you should be leveling up pretty quickly, especially if they are teams with knowledgable players. I'm able to get my lowbies up fairly quickly with my usual group, and there is only 4 of us.
On that Ice Tank, it is tough in low levels, especially before stamina. I hate playing tanks pre-stamina. But the nice thing about Ice is that at level 26 almost all your endurance issues will be gone. Energy Absorbtion is fantastic. Just step into the middle of a crowd and hit that button to fill your blue bar and drain about half of theirs. Find an Electric Blaster or Defender with Short Circuit to team with, and you can drain crowds. I still find my Ice tank at 40 or so to be a little squishy, but I can usually get by using both Hoarfrost and Hibernation. Eventually with some IO slotting, she should get a little tougher.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
[ QUOTE ]
I'm new to blue side, but why isn't Plants in the conversation?
AoE Immob, Ranged AoE hold, Virtually Spammable AoE confuse, carrion creepers (EQ\Ices lick that follows u from spawn to spawn, tanks, and does damamge, oh and it grows in size to match the size of the spawn), and a bet that does -fly, -jump, and immobs.
Also, can Mind trollers kill alphas using sleep, or was that only a Dom thing?
[/ QUOTE ]
and plant matches # of AoE targets and range of AoE attacks, dam, dam/end etc of earth .. only real diff I can see is -def earth, but that never seemed to matter much to me, like any other set, just means diff acc slotting.
So as one who play troller occassionally but never really got into em, I would also like to know what makes everyone say earth is the best? Not that I doubt you all more experienced controller player.. just ussually like a little real data before I buy what Johnny Joe says is fact.
Thanks again Local. I appreciate the advice and feedback.
And, not to go off on a tangent, but:
[ QUOTE ]
On that Ice Tank, it is tough in low levels, especially before stamina. I hate playing tanks pre-stamina. But the nice thing about Ice is that at level 26...
[/ QUOTE ]
To me that is a flaw of game design. CoH does so many things right, it is my favorite MMO and I've played lots of them to max level. But one thing it does very wrong is that some on some classes they held back too many goodies until too late in the game. Every class should be fun from level 1 - and tanks (and some other sets) are just not 'fun' in groups until the 20s.
I am not going to do MMO vs. CoH comparisons, but it is a flaw in CoH.
But since CoH does so many other things so much better than other MMOs, I'll sit down and shut up now 
Thanks again.
When you see yourself in a crowded room / do your fingers itch,are you pistol-whipped
Will you step in line or release the glitch / can you fall asleep with a panic switch
Earth/storm or mind/storm. Also pick up the presence pool for two additional fear powers.
Earth/Trick Arrow, signed here.
Earth-
Aoe Stun
Aoe KD
Aoe Hold (that lasts a really good time)
Aoe Sleep
Aoe Immob
Aoe Slow
Single Target Hold
Single Target Immob
Thats 6 AOE powers, all good btw. Yes I think most people skip sleep. But that is a merit to strength of its other 4 AOE powers.
Trick Arrow
Single Target Immob
Single Target Hold
Aoe Slow
Aoe Hold
Aoe Knockdown
Aoe Sleep (tho not 100%) with damage debuff
Note I am only counting powers that constitute lock down. I consider sleep to be a good lock down power.
Also Earth has -DEF which contributes to team more so then most other secondary effects. -Rech is nice for long fights but if your team is hitting things easier, then they are doing more damage, which means stuff is eating carpet quicker.
Now that being said. Plant has a very strong contender in Seeds. Seeds is so good it borders on abusive. Its the sole reason many people even take plant. Its so good they gave plant Spirit Tree!!! I mean seriously, read that. SPIRIT TREE!!! That basically tells you cast seeds then cast spirit tree, pick fruit from tree while mobs destroy themselves. However against confuse resistant foes it sorta lacks. But hey those are few and far between. Plant also gets an Aoe Sleep, and carrion creepers to help lock things down.
Plant
Single Target Immob
Single Target Hold
Aoe Sleep
Aoe Immob
Aoe Confuse (Tho it is a cone)
Aoe Hold
Aoe Knockdown + (tho obscenely long recharge)
Not counting seeds, earth has better recharges on most of its powers, which I think nudges it ahead.
Mind
Single Target Hold
Single Target Immob
Single Target Confuse
Single Target Knock-up
Single Target Sleep
Aoe Sleep
Aoe Terrify +Damage
Aoe Hold
Aoe Confuse (Long Recharge tho)
Trick arrow simply gives better lock down then any other secondary. Read LOCK DOWN not debuffs.
Radiation only has 2 lock down powers. One of which is an aura but it is only Mag 1. The other is an additional Aoe hold. However they are both PBAOE. Rad also has a good slow, tho it is an anchor power.
Hope this helps.
[ QUOTE ]
Rad also has a good slow, tho it is an anchor power.
[/ QUOTE ]
No it isn't - Lingering Radiation is a targetted AoE click (it also does meaty -recharge and -regen along with the slow). You're thinking of Radiation Infection (the -def/-tohit toggle) and/or Enervating Field (the -damage/-res toggle).
Ah, you are correct. Thank you I am always getting those 3 mixed up.
Shows how often I make rads.
Having the most control is very over-rated, and maybe a bit boring. This is why I totally endorse earth/storm if you're looking for a control beast. NO, it's not as control heavy as earth/TA. But it has all the control you will ever need. Plus it ends up being quite good at soloing, or even contributing damage on light damage teams. It's very fun.
As to the discussion between mind/ and earth/, I have a 50 earth/storm and a 40 mind/kin, and I must say that earth always felt like it had more AoE control. Don't get me wrong, mind is VERY strong with AoE control, but earth always just felt stronger. Very subjective, I know, I admit it. But those are my feelings.
It seems this thread is stearing you toward earth/TA or Mind/TA for best total control. I think you cannot go wrong with either, as the differences in total control between the two builds is so negligible (sp?).
**WARNING** Personal opinion coming!
I think the fun in controllers is have strong control while being able to do some good damage also. As such, There are many other VERY fun combos out there that provide all the control a team could ever need while still being able to do damage for a small team or solo. Some examples of these are: earth/storm, fire/storm, fire/rad, ill/kin, mind/rad, mind/kin, ill/rad, plant/storm and many others.
Sorry, this was longer that I was planning. But there ya have it.
[ QUOTE ]
Earth/TA. Lock thread.
[/ QUOTE ]
This. Mind/TA would have more signle target control at the expense of some AoE lockdown ability.
Mind may not have the AOE capacity of Earth. It does however trump it in the damage capacity.
Levitate, Mesmerize, Terrify. I think its worth noting that terrify is one of the few decent damage AOE attacks in a controller primary.
On a side note, I believe Singularity is the single best pet at Lock Down. Which may also sway your vote. I think if you consider Singularity then Grav jumps up the ranks as a strong set for lock down.
As a mind/storm I always have something to lockdown a group, how much control is too much control?
Also as Mind/Storm you get thunderclap in addition to all the other goodies. If you open with mass hypnosis you can safely wander into most small group spawns and take out all the minions, and in big group spawns just follow the tank into the middle. You can supplement this with fear, total dom, mass confusion also and pile on some bad weather to really make it a bad day for the mobs ;-)