Mobs stuck in walls in cave missions...
By
Culex,
Posted on: 2009-06-03 13:00 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
I thought they did, every 'stuck in the wall' baddie that I have had in quite a while now has popped out without fail, I think the only trick I have used recently is to walk away then come back after a bit.
Many don't. Depends on the type of wall. You are lucky. Many of us are not. Cave walls seem impossible for most to get out of when it's in one of the rooms, with non-flat walls. Walls in warehouses, where they are flat, are much easier. When enemies patrol, and jump up to ceiling 'walkways' (why are these covered in AI waypoints?) they easily get stuck in ceiling items and cannot jump out most of the time.
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They've always come out of cave walls for me, but it takes some time - sometimes a few minutes.
They have been popping out of the wall (not just jumping out) for quite some time now. It's almost like the foes have their own version of /stuck that fixes them if they are behind a wall too long.
Moving out of line of sight for a short amount of time can also prompt them to be thrown back into play. It's not much of a problem anymore.
Yeah, they probably can unstuck themselves. But it's the best not to get stuck to start with.
My friends and I were on a low level mish, that ended up with a foe behind a wall in one of the arachnos bases. I've seen them stick up in the rafters before, so I sent in a /petition while we searched. Fortunately, shortly after finding the escapee, a GM came on and popped him out for us. Probably less than 10 min from when we started out search, and the GM came on and solved our problem.
Kinda funny actually, I sent a the /petition in immediately, as soon as one of my friends found the guy, he said "send a /petition," to which I responded, "Talking to the GM now." 
[ QUOTE ]
My friends and I were on a low level mish, that ended up with a foe behind a wall in one of the arachnos bases. I've seen them stick up in the rafters before, so I sent in a /petition while we searched. Fortunately, shortly after finding the escapee, a GM came on and popped him out for us. Probably less than 10 min from when we started out search, and the GM came on and solved our problem.
Kinda funny actually, I sent a the /petition in immediately, as soon as one of my friends found the guy, he said "send a /petition," to which I responded, "Talking to the GM now."
[/ QUOTE ] In this case, there are still a few holes in some of the arachnos map sets. You can actually travel freely from the inside to outside if you know where they are. Often times, patrols or ambushes will wander out the hole and can be hard to find.. especially if they fall down to the "bottom" of the mission.
It's still not intended, but it's not exactly the same problem.
It's better now than it used to be.
They're less likely to get stuck. They're more likely to get unstuck. There are auto-tp powers at the 'bottom' of many maps so that those who fall all the way out get popped back in. And finally, they gave us the 'drop mission' power on a 3 day cool down so that we can do our own GM solution to the problem.
Of course, you could always stock up on the Warburg nuclear missile, it's AoE damage kills wall huggers dead.
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Yeah; most do pop out, if you get out of their LOS while they are aggroed...but at other times I've had some stuck, aggroed, and out of LOS, in a warehouse map no less, and waited over 30 minutes and had to have a GM fix it. (He got kicked out after like the third spawn. Finished mission, he wasn't out yet, he was necessary, called GM, waited a half hour, then he got plucked out.)
No matter what, it's better than the first bit of closed COV beta. First character there was a bots/bub. I'd Force Bolt. The enemies would get stuck in the walls/ceilings an easy 75%, and here I am trying hard to underestimate, of the time, IF they would touch such things on being knocked around. SO glad they killed the hyper-ragdolling, I am pretty sure that was the reason during that time, since when they did it stopped happening. Sooooo annoying.
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This is such a LAME problem from a programming perspective.
Here's a clue for you so called developers: If line_of_sight_check returns true for the mob to a player or minion, and line_of_sight_check does not return true from them to the mob, there's a geometry bug. The only exceptions I can think of would be easy to delimit cases involving placate or something similar, and that shouldn't affect the basic line of sight check anyway.
It requires ONE extra geometry check per attack. If there's a geometry bug, fix it NOW, not later.
Quote:
Its hardly that trivial, a change like that could have many more factors or layers. I have heard of other 'simple' fixes like that being unworkable because of server load already.|
Originally Posted by Peyote
This is such a LAME problem from a programming perspective.
Here's a clue for you so called developers: If line_of_sight_check returns true for the mob to a player or minion, and line_of_sight_check does not return true from them to the mob, there's a geometry bug. The only exceptions I can think of would be easy to delimit cases involving placate or something similar, and that shouldn't affect the basic line of sight check anyway. It requires ONE extra geometry check per attack. If there's a geometry bug, fix it NOW, not later. |
All that being said, I think its fixed, I haven't had to reset a mission in a long long time now due to a stuck creature, ALL of them have popped out in a minute or less.
Quote:
It's because the wall texture is transparent on the other side, giving them line of sight. |
Originally Posted by Peyote
This is such a LAME problem from a programming perspective.
Here's a clue for you so called developers: If line_of_sight_check returns true for the mob to a player or minion, and line_of_sight_check does not return true from them to the mob, there's a geometry bug. The only exceptions I can think of would be easy to delimit cases involving placate or something similar, and that shouldn't affect the basic line of sight check anyway. It requires ONE extra geometry check per attack. If there's a geometry bug, fix it NOW, not later. |
If you ever manage to get under a map or zone and fly around, you'll find that you can see and attack foes from underground/underwater and they can't attack you back either. The only way I can think of to "fix" this is to make the line_of_sight check in both directions, instead of just from caster to target. I am not sure how that would affect the timing of powers, and it seems like a lot of extra work just to account for scenarios such as this (which has already been dealt with in other ways). As I said above, leaving the room and getting out of range or LoS usually causes them up jump back into the map.
And the reason they get stuck in the first place (in my opinion), is because the knockback only checks the floor texture's horizontal distance to the wall, not taking into account the vertical space or the size of the model being knocked_back/spawned into the new location, which causes them to "get up" on the outside of the wall if it is slanted.
Another trick if you have pets: You can sometimes summon them outside the wall by placing your recticle as close to the wall as you can. Then they can kill the foe for you.
Quote:
Here's another clue for a so called player - you have NOT seen the code. You have no idea what will be easy, what will be difficult, and what will crush the servers' minds if you try it. They've already had to make modifications to the game engine to get the stuck-in-walls problem down to the level it's at now.
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Originally Posted by Peyote
It requires ONE extra geometry check per attack. If there's a geometry bug, fix it NOW, not later.
|
You would be surprised by how difficult it is to plug the final bit of "falling through a floating point singularity" in a way that doesn't substantially slow a collision detection algorithm.
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Can we fix this now, please?
I think it's been long enough now that we've had to put up with such a stupid, immersion-breaking, game-slowing bug, I think it's time to fix it.
Please.
Thanks.
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