Reaching the limits of a PvE MMO,now what?(long)
By
Ad Astra,
Posted on: 2009-06-01 08:04 in Suggestions and Ideas
A few things:
1) The PvE content is nowhere close to running dry. Just look at some of the content created by players with the MA. Think of that as just a fraction of what you can create in this game.
2) I have BEEN playing, not I have BIN playing. Also, Riching =/= Reaching.
3) As long as I don't have to choose an arch-nemesis, and it's an entirely optional thing, then I'm fine with it.
4) How will you put the other player in your mission? Will it depend on if that person is online, in the PvP zone that you're in? Or is it just creating an MA-like being for you to fight against, with that player's main powersets?
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Well, the idea is nifty enough...
I like the idea of PvP using standard mission maps and one character has a goal (save/kidnap, diffuse/set bomb, etc...) and the other player tries to stop them from succeeding. Perhaps all set on a timer, as that's really the only way for the 'stopper' to eventually win. I suppose there'd have to be minions antagonistic to both sides to make it more fairer...
This sort of PvP I'd probably really love, instead of simply trying to beat each other's brains out.
Have no clue on how such could be implemented, but the idea certainly has merit
Also, vis-a-vis. If you're going to use fancy terms in a suggestion, make sure you know how to spell them. 
Also, I agree with Aett.
...I forgot what experience means.
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A few things:
1) The PvE content is nowhere close to running dry. Just look at some of the content created by players with the MA. Think of that as just a fraction of what you can create in this game.
2) I have BEEN playing, not I have BIN playing. Also, Riching =/= Reaching.
3) As long as I don't have to choose an arch-nemesis, and it's an entirely optional thing, then I'm fine with it.
4) How will you put the other player in your mission? Will it depend on if that person is online, in the PvP zone that you're in? Or is it just creating an MA-like being for you to fight against, with that player's main powersets?
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I was talking about large meaning full updates like what the MA brought to us, but I do see your point.
It would work as some random mission, rescue a person wile a player villain would try to stop you. steal some object and some player hero would have to stop you.
no it wouldn't be just some copy of a players character that wouldn't be PvP.
I do like the idea of running into other players on your missions... I think it would spice up the normal routines of missions by giving you a new obstacle that could either be real easy, or could be super tough.
@The Omega Elementress
Currently playing Project Willow lvl 50 DB/WP Incarnate Shifted Scrapper
a better edit for my idea would be a PvP enabled mission option at all contacts. Just befor you do any mission with any contact you cna switch on PvP missioning allowing any one from the opiset side of the game to come in and try to stop you.
There could be a timer in place to keep a player from jumping right back in some ones mission after that player was defeated. There would be a contact that would have a list of players with pvp enabled in there missions to allow you to join in.
There should be a balance in level maybe 2 levels difference at the most.
Doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of an "instance"?
It seems like your talking about some sort of MMO version of Capture the Flag type gameplay. I see potential here! 
The PVP zones are kinda like this already. Hardly anyone PVPs though cause the system is kinda [censored] up!
Whats the issue anyway? Why can't PVP/PVE have the same combat system?
PvP social networking - expanding the arena model perhaps - whereby players can meet in a pre-arranged mission on this basis (one to achieve X, to the other to thwart him) would be well worth implementing. An open challenge kind of thing, where a player can "register" to carry out one side of the mission and wait for someone else to sign on to thwart him would also be a good thing.
Not sure of the desirability or feasability of building an ongoing relationship into the system - whereas with mutual signup the archenemies could meet anytime they want to set it up.
Sidebar: I always thought a nice, if paranoid, variant, would be a cooperative mission where one side or the other gets a system message that they can double-cross the other faction now. They don't HAVE to, and rewards for the mission should be the same regardless (so as not to incentivize the decision one way or another). But it would add a nice twist to the either/or model (either opposed from the get go or co-op to the end).
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
My whole idea here is to add a sort of open world PvP element since most leveling is done in missions insted of in the open world like other mmos like age of conan.
The same concept of open pvp could be added as a sort of open mission PvP. These missions could boast a XP boost for the extra risk involved and can add some excitement to some one who is tired of the regular missions that can get really easy really fast.
It can add that extra excitement people get from playing in a open PvP server like on age of conan. SO the concept isn't really to brake down what a instance is its just the fact this game is all based on missions in an instance so it would be proper to add this as a base for open PvP.
No to open world PvP.
Instanced PvP by agreement might be interesting.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
I would never want open world PvP in this game it wouldnt even be viable.
This game is based on instances so open PvP instance would be viable.
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My whole idea here is to add a sort of open world PvP element ...
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If it were limited to one server, perhaps. Open PvP of any description on a general basis would be a pity, as I have no wish to cancel my subscription ot this game.
My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.
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Whats the issue anyway? Why can't PVP/PVE have the same combat system?
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I'm guessing by this question that you've never been the victim of a Mind Controller or Dominator's Telekinesis power before. Prior to the changes in mezzes if you were caught by this power and didn't have 4 or more Break Frees to pop all at once there was literally NOTHING you could do except die. In PvE it is a TOGGLE hold, it's duration lasts as long as you have endurance to run it. In this era of insane endurance recovery a Mind controller or dominator can keep an enemy in this hold indefinitely.
I disagree with a lot of the changes, especially travel suppression when attacked. But this change I agree with. That one power made Mind Control characters unbeatable unless you got the drop on them, if they saw you first you were quite simply dead.
There are a lot of powers that have similar issues, I'm just using Telekinesis as an example because it was the biggest outlier.
Stalker one-shotting was a problem as well. An enemy that you could not see that was capable of killing you in ONE HIT. That was actually the first PvP change. Stalkers brought about the anti-one shot coding.
If PvP was exactly like PvE it wold be even more unfair than it is now. No one likes fighting an opponent they are helpless against. The zones would turn into nothing but Mind Control, stalkers, and blasters, with an occasional suicidal scrapper. Just like it used to be. Honestly, they need to find a middle ground between i12 PvP and i13 PvP. A lot of the changes needed to happen, but they took it too far.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
PvE is nowhere near drying up, and if I have to be quite honest, I am TIRED of big, revolutionary systems being added to the game. I would be perfectly happy if they concentrated on adding new zones, new missions, new costumes, new contacts, new powersets and even new ATs. We've had too long a run of adding new systems with precious little content behind them.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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My whole idea here is to add a sort of open world PvP element ...
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If it were limited to one server, perhaps. Open PvP of any description on a general basis would be a pity, as I have no wish to cancel my subscription ot this game.
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sort of is the key word there, i said sort of because this game isnt really based on leveling in the open world its based on instance missions.
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My whole idea here is to add a sort of open world PvP element ...
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If it were limited to one server, perhaps. Open PvP of any description on a general basis would be a pity, as I have no wish to cancel my subscription ot this game.
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sort of is the key word there, i said sort of because this game isnt really based on leveling in the open world its based on instance missions.
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I'm still a bit confused by the delicate nuance you are shading here.... Is this any species of open world PvP or not?
Also, some people do level in the open world and a few seem to prefer that (based on some threads I have seen),
of course, a lot of the less-than-positive responses you are getting here are because you started from a flawed premise that the game has reached its PvE limits, which isn't true. I agree with Samuel_Tow that we really don't need more wide ranging systems expansions for a while (other than Going Rogue). We need to digest and develop what we have been given already.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
Fine if you disagree with what I said about PvE hitting its ceiling can we really focus on the real topic. I wasn't implying any thing about open world PvP I meant open mission PvP.
as the main point drown in the corpulence that is spell checking and word dissecting let all know the prime idea still stands.
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Whats the issue anyway? Why can't PVP/PVE have the same combat system?
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I'm guessing by this question that you've never been the victim of a Mind Controller or Dominator's Telekinesis power before. Prior to the changes in mezzes if you were caught by this power and didn't have 4 or more Break Frees to pop all at once there was literally NOTHING you could do except die. In PvE it is a TOGGLE hold, it's duration lasts as long as you have endurance to run it. In this era of insane endurance recovery a Mind controller or dominator can keep an enemy in this hold indefinitely.
I disagree with a lot of the changes, especially travel suppression when attacked. But this change I agree with. That one power made Mind Control characters unbeatable unless you got the drop on them, if they saw you first you were quite simply dead.
There are a lot of powers that have similar issues, I'm just using Telekinesis as an example because it was the biggest outlier.
Stalker one-shotting was a problem as well. An enemy that you could not see that was capable of killing you in ONE HIT. That was actually the first PvP change. Stalkers brought about the anti-one shot coding.
If PvP was exactly like PvE it wold be even more unfair than it is now. No one likes fighting an opponent they are helpless against. The zones would turn into nothing but Mind Control, stalkers, and blasters, with an occasional suicidal scrapper. Just like it used to be. Honestly, they need to find a middle ground between i12 PvP and i13 PvP. A lot of the changes needed to happen, but they took it too far.
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Oh I see... Thank you for the in depth and understandable reply! I see yeah it just needs to find a good middle ground... Doms and controllers and such aren't gimped now though are they?
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Fine if you disagree with what I said about PvE hitting its ceiling can we really focus on the real topic. I wasn't implying any thing about open world PvP I meant open mission PvP.
as the main point drown in the corpulence that is spell checking and word dissecting let all know the prime idea still stands.
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So what is the "prime idea"? That's what I am asking for clarification about. Get upset if you want, but I truly don't understand the idea.
You say this:
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I would never want open world PvP in this game it wouldnt even be viable.
This game is based on instances so open PvP instance would be viable.
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And this:
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My whole idea here is to add a sort of open world PvP element since most leveling is done in missions insted of in the open world like other mmos like age of conan.
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In the same post you say:
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It can add that extra excitement people get from playing in a open PvP server like on age of conan. SO the concept isn't really to brake down what a instance is its just the fact this game is all based on missions in an instance so it would be proper to add this as a base for open PvP.
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which I was thinking meant you wanted to have individual instance PvP that would be one-on-one. But I'm not sure because you keep dropping the phrase "sort of open world PvP".
In this last post it appears that was what you were saying all along - but I did not understand that and was trying to get clarification. To get all cranky about someone not understading your less than clear and confusing terminology doesn't help move the discussion along.
Altoholic - but a Blaster at Heart!
Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon
"You gave us a world where we could fly. I can't thank you enough for that."
here ill just give you the basic of it since its just to hard to understand.
You start a mission but before you do you hit a toggle button that says a player can enter your mission in a OPEN PvP state.
Thats the simple explanation.
I only said SORT OF like open world PvP becuse you could leave the toggle on and every mission you enter could mean a PvP fight at random.
SORT OF like on a open world PvP server.
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Whats the issue anyway? Why can't PVP/PVE have the same combat system?
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing by this question that you've never been the victim of a Mind Controller or Dominator's Telekinesis power before. Prior to the changes in mezzes if you were caught by this power and didn't have 4 or more Break Frees to pop all at once there was literally NOTHING you could do except die. In PvE it is a TOGGLE hold, it's duration lasts as long as you have endurance to run it. In this era of insane endurance recovery a Mind controller or dominator can keep an enemy in this hold indefinitely.
I disagree with a lot of the changes, especially travel suppression when attacked. But this change I agree with. That one power made Mind Control characters unbeatable unless you got the drop on them, if they saw you first you were quite simply dead.
There are a lot of powers that have similar issues, I'm just using Telekinesis as an example because it was the biggest outlier.
Stalker one-shotting was a problem as well. An enemy that you could not see that was capable of killing you in ONE HIT. That was actually the first PvP change. Stalkers brought about the anti-one shot coding.
If PvP was exactly like PvE it wold be even more unfair than it is now. No one likes fighting an opponent they are helpless against. The zones would turn into nothing but Mind Control, stalkers, and blasters, with an occasional suicidal scrapper. Just like it used to be. Honestly, they need to find a middle ground between i12 PvP and i13 PvP. A lot of the changes needed to happen, but they took it too far.
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You must have missed where they changed the way BF's reacted to Telekinesis before i13. I believe it was around i11 that it only took 2 to completely resist both the repel and the hold. Not to mention if an opponent was incapable of killing you during the duration of a mez, then mez suppression would kick in and you'd have an opportunity to launch a counter-offensive.
If PvP were closer to PvE (such as how it was in i12), then it would be a lot more fair than it is now.
"the reason there are so many sarcastic pvpers is we already had a better version of pvp taken away from us to appease bad players. Back then we chuckled at how bad players came here and whined. If we knew that was the actual voice devs would listen to instead of informed, educated players we probably would have been bigger dicks back then." -ConFlict
I have been playing CoX since beta I know I don't have many posts but I am not much of a forum type of player.
I have been watching this game grow proudly from a simple PvE based MMORPG with a superhero theme to a nearly perfect example of a PvE MMORPG.
I have played almost every MMORPG out there and none of them compare to this games PvE content. The wide range of activity's is incredible and keeps getting better.
We are near perfection in PvE and will hit those limits soon. So my thoughts are wondering now on PvP. It has never been a full focus of this game and rightfully so for this is a PvE based MMO.
The time has come tho that we will be forced down from huge game changing PvE updates like invasions new powers and costumes and missions to this like extra zones every other updates if we are lucky. As the idea well of PvE content begins to run dry PvP should start to become addressed.
The best way to go about it is to base PvP in a PvE setting Vis-à-vis missions. Every one has thought about real arch enemy's. What if you could make a player your arch enemy and you run into each other and fight each other?
What I call PvP missions would be my suggestion, Make a contact that you can go to for a random sort of PvP missions. On these missions there is a chance you can run into a hero or villain player.
Both hero and villain must talk to a PvP contact and a random selection system will put them on a mission that may or may not lead to them running into each other.
There would have to be a numbers vr numbers system in place to keep a soloer from running into a team. Easily done by making these missions TF like where your team is locked in once the mission is accepted.
Once a Hero meets a villain and the battle is done there is a pop up that asks if you would like to make your self as arch enemy of this player. If you click yes then you will be added to his arch enemy's list and vise verse.
If both click yes then there is a very high chance you will run into that player again when you enter a PvP mission if not the chance doesn't change and your enemy's list will show he has not accepted arch enemy invite.
This arch enemy's list would work like a friends list with a ranking system. 1-100 the enemy at rank 1 has the highest chance of showing wile 100 has the lowest chance. any player off line will move the next rank up.
Both players must have each other on that same rank level for it to take any effect on the chance of appearing in the same PvP mission. I wont go into detail how it would effect different ranks but its easy to understand.
remember this would not effect PvE missions and is 100% optional.