Full Auto Target Cap

Katten · 05-19-2009 01:59 PM

Ah, thanks, yea that's important info, the pet summon was info I couldn't find on Mid's or in game CoH. Pseudo pets cause me trouble sometimes when they're not given their own tabs in the powers.

[Also, just curious, why exactly would a pet summon (summon: rain of arrows) have such a high accuracy.Does that have any determining factor on the amount of times it hits the mob? (I know RoA can possibly hit 3 times)]

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Oathbound · 05-19-2009 02:05 PM

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Also, as a pseudo pet, I can't determine RoA's effective mob cap, is there one? anyone have that data for me real quick?

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RoA has a 16 target cap.

It checks accuracy, for each mob, on each Tick, so I'm not sure if like "real" storm powers it can potentially hit more than that (for greatly reduced damage).

Because it checks accuracy on each tick, it also can miss one or more ticks against your targets, meaning sometimes you get all 3 ticks vs a specific foe, sometimes you only get 2, sometimes you only get 1. This functionality has the potential for lowering it's total damage. (Where with FA you're guaranteed full damage against all targets you hit.)(Resistance notwithstanding.)

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Oathbound · 05-19-2009 02:10 PM

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Ah, thanks, yea that's important info, the pet summon was info I couldn't find on Mid's or in game CoH. Pseudo pets cause me trouble sometimes when they're not given their own tabs in the powers.

[Also, just curious, why exactly would a pet summon (summon: rain of arrows) have such a high accuracy.Does that have any determining factor on the amount of times it hits the mob? (I know RoA can possibly hit 3 times)]

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I honestly have no idea, but different pets even have different "Accuracy" on the summon. Most Permanent pets from Control sets have a Summon Accuracy of 1. Fire Imps and Dark Servant have a summon Accuracy of 2. RoA is 1.6, all of the Traps pseudo pets are 1.0 as well.

Pet's summon accuracy doesn't effect the Power's accuracy in any way that I'm aware of. Imps may be 2.0 to summon, but they're still only 1.0 for their attack.

@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too

Katten · 05-19-2009 03:56 PM

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I honestly have no idea, but different pets even have different "Accuracy" on the summon

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I missed

(rain of arrows randomly is summoned in space killing two astronauts)

"Fascinating. I'm not bored at all, I swear." -Kikuchiyo

Greyhame · 05-19-2009 04:53 PM

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Ah, thanks, yea that's important info, the pet summon was info I couldn't find on Mid's or in game CoH. Pseudo pets cause me trouble sometimes when they're not given their own tabs in the powers.

[Also, just curious, why exactly would a pet summon (summon: rain of arrows) have such a high accuracy.Does that have any determining factor on the amount of times it hits the mob? (I know RoA can possibly hit 3 times)]

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I remember when Archery came out - high base accuracy is a signature characteristic of the set by deliberate design.

No opinion on the question of the thread. I have no practical experience with either set.

Zem · 05-19-2009 05:05 PM

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Because it checks accuracy on each tick, it also can miss one or more ticks against your targets, meaning sometimes you get all 3 ticks vs a specific foe, sometimes you only get 2, sometimes you only get 1. This functionality has the potential for lowering it's total damage. (Where with FA you're guaranteed full damage against all targets you hit.)(Resistance notwithstanding.)

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Yeah, but you're also guaranteed zero damage when you miss a target with FA. RoA can hit for no damage, 1/3, 2/3, or full damage to each target. RoA is less likely to do full damage to each target but also less likely to do NO damage to any given target. On average over time it would perform just as well as FA if the two powers had the same max damage output... which of course they don't.

Unless I have forgotten more about probability than I think I have, anyway.

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Phosphorescency · 05-19-2009 05:25 PM

Your math is good...but it's real world math, not CoH math. Around here, the ToHit is checked against all the targets and you hit up to the cap. So if you're slotted even decently for accuracy and you fire into a spawn with say 20 targets, hitting 10 for full damage is a near-certainty.

Fulmens · 05-20-2009 03:53 AM

EDITED: I am an idiot, and the Real Numbers in game answered my question. Move along, citizen.

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Kidou · 05-20-2009 02:08 PM

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Theoritically, you can hit more enemies with a cone power than you can with AoEs

Heck, I CONSISTANTLY hit 10 targets every time when I use it. At least in a team.

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What causes this? Is it the often lowered base accuracy in AoE? Is it delay in activation time? Is it Mob Spread?

What causes the lack of consistency?

Actually... theoretically speaking, as in, in the best possible scenario, it's impossible to out do AoE attack as the mob cap prohibits it (10 vs 16). However, [u]practically[u] I am interested in performance, as I have little experience with the power.

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It's because Cones are easier to leverage to hit maximum targets than AoEs. Coupled with range slotting or boost range, you can make them EASILY cover more than AoEs.

AoEs rarely hit the target cap unless they're herded or have a huge radius.

Fleeting Whisper · 05-20-2009 02:29 PM

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it's a very thin cone at 10 degrees

[/ QUOTE ]20 degrees, actually.

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

Fleeting Whisper · 05-20-2009 02:31 PM

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Ah, thanks, yea that's important info, the pet summon was info I couldn't find on Mid's or in game CoH. Pseudo pets cause me trouble sometimes when they're not given their own tabs in the powers.

[Also, just curious, why exactly would a pet summon (summon: rain of arrows) have such a high accuracy.Does that have any determining factor on the amount of times it hits the mob? (I know RoA can possibly hit 3 times)]

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly have no idea, but different pets even have different "Accuracy" on the summon. Most Permanent pets from Control sets have a Summon Accuracy of 1. Fire Imps and Dark Servant have a summon Accuracy of 2. RoA is 1.6, all of the Traps pseudo pets are 1.0 as well.

[/ QUOTE ]The acc of the summon does nothing. Best guess for the reason for such high acc on them is being able to quickly find the power definitions in their spreadsheets, kind of a internal system to tag the powers so that they can be found again. *shrug*

http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt

Arcanaville · 05-20-2009 05:00 PM

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Ah, thanks, yea that's important info, the pet summon was info I couldn't find on Mid's or in game CoH. Pseudo pets cause me trouble sometimes when they're not given their own tabs in the powers.

[Also, just curious, why exactly would a pet summon (summon: rain of arrows) have such a high accuracy.Does that have any determining factor on the amount of times it hits the mob? (I know RoA can possibly hit 3 times)]

[/ QUOTE ]

I honestly have no idea, but different pets even have different "Accuracy" on the summon. Most Permanent pets from Control sets have a Summon Accuracy of 1. Fire Imps and Dark Servant have a summon Accuracy of 2. RoA is 1.6, all of the Traps pseudo pets are 1.0 as well.

[/ QUOTE ]The acc of the summon does nothing. Best guess for the reason for such high acc on them is being able to quickly find the power definitions in their spreadsheets, kind of a internal system to tag the powers so that they can be found again. *shrug*

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More likely, its a don't-care error. Since that value doesn't do anything any error put in that value is unlikely to ever be spotted and corrected.

There are powers that print incorrect combat messages to critters. Since critters don't have combat chat windows, its impossible to ever see this happen, and therefore its impossible for anyone to observe the error and report it under ordinary circumstances. And that's why there used to be a lot of those.

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