<center>The below flier is posted on behalf of the player organization promoting the event.
For more information about having an event flier posted, please see the <a href=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=8952225">Event Posting Rules</a>
<img src=http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7923/voyage.jpg></center>
Thanks Niviene!
That was posted almost as soon as I sent you the request... Are you using Orobouros portals again?
For those interested, here's a review by Bubbawheat from his Reviews for Short arcs.
█ Players Guide to the Cities
How can I compete with that? Some of us don't have art departments.
I live in FREEKIN WISCONSIN BABY!
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How can I compete with that? Some of us don't have art departments.
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I do my own artwork, but I'm sure if you post a request in the Screenshots and Fan Art section people could help you out for a chance to be credited for any work they do.
You might even propose a litle competition where the winner gets a spot in your MArc. Perhaps a mention in a text somewhere - or even an onscreen appearance.
Oh, and thanks. 
█ Players Guide to the Cities
Another review, this time by Interface. His style aims to "try for the maximum amount of sarcasm possible without melting the forum", so I was looking forward to his take on this particular arc.
█ Players Guide to the Cities
/e ThumbsUp.
Okay. Let me get this strait, because I'm a little confused.
There are no parodies allowed in the MA?
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Synopsis: ([u]Humoristic hommage[u]) - The Rikti ambassador is sick with an unknown bacterial infection. Your placement agency has just recommended you to Dr. Scott Wachhorst for an experimental technique you'll be perfect for.
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And there are no derivative works allowed in the MA?
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Other details: [u]Inspired from the movie/book Fantastic Voyage, in case it wasn't obvious already.[u] Intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Re-use of existing critters kept the size under 13%.
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Or was there a recall of the no parodies/no derivative missions rule?
http://www.cityofheroes.com/news/pat...lease_not.html
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Parodies and derivative works are not allowed.
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Or is this a posting promoting an event/mission that is clearly in violation of the above rule?
I'm confused. 
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Okay. Let me get this strait, because I'm a little confused...
...I'm confused.
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I know you state it twice, but judging from the amount of work and research you put into this reply, I'd say "confused" is just about the last thing you are.
That's a compliment btw, and thanks for going out of your way to point this out.
Based on the definitions I just Googled of "parody" and "derivative works", I can safely state that this arc is not the latter, and *might* under a certain light be seen as the former since I use the term "tongue-in-cheek". If I remove that, even that ambiguity would disappear, IMO.
My intent was, and this is stated in my arc description, to be an hommage to this classic SF story. There is no use of any names / locations / processes which could belong in the movie, or the book written for it afterwards. I can't even say my idea of using an existing story as inspiration to be original, since it's been done countless times before in and out of the MA system.
Heck, one could even argue Dr. Vahzilok is inspired from Frankenstein to an extent. But I digress.
I'm the one who published this, and am definitely biased. My own motivation is clear in getting more people to play this. I even made a poster for it and submitted it for a few reviews.
I'm sure if anyone wants to report the story, if you haven't already, that it will be evaluated by those who can rule on these things. I'll just accept that possibility and deal with it accordingly.
In any case, that brings closure to my first poll.
Follow up poll: Do you consider this arc to go against the MA Code of Conduct?
█ Players Guide to the Cities
I do not consider it to be any more of a parody than any of the radio missions containing 'mock' supermans and spidermans and their attendant girlfriends.
The names are not the same, the clever use of the background sets are brilliant, it gives enough of an idea to make you chuckle but otherwise has nothing in it that Asimov would roll over in his grave about.
As I told you when I played it earlier, Fantastic Voyage was my very first science fiction book ever read. I still have the dog-eared copy of it in my bookshelf. I thought that it was respectful and fun.
Also, the patch notes =/= the eula.
Also also, don't you guys think that Niv or someone would have put a stop to it if they read it and said, "gosh that's against our policy"...? Instead, she posts the poster... hmmmm.
Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
Repurposed
I have played Stalemate's arc, and it is neither a parody nor a derivative work. It is an homage to classic sci-fi, and one story in particular. Considering how many things NC Soft has in the game that are "homages" to pop culture events, places and people, I can't see the problem with this arc.
It's fun and the maps and mobs were very carefully selected. It's a lot of fun!
If SpongeBob can do it, you can too.
Blacklisted
"I'AM SATANS FAVORITE CHILD!!"
It is really well done.
I need to run it again.
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Also, the patch notes =/= the eula.
Also also, don't you guys think that Niv or someone would have put a stop to it if they read it and said, "gosh that's against our policy"...? Instead, she posts the poster... hmmmm.
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Yeah, that's exactly my point.
That's why I was wondering if there was a change.
It is obvious that the DEVs have been doing it all along. No argument there.
It is also obvious that I took quotes strait from information generated by the DEVs.
I'm working intentionally to not do either - because of the rules.
I saw this posted with, apparent, backing by Niv (as you say) - therefore, I had to point out that which seemed to be blatant non-conformity with the rules.
I know it may seem like I'm trying to start an argument, but I'm just pointing out something that seems clearly obvious.
Either the rules have changed, someone isn't paying attention, or the rules clearly don't mean anything.
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Either the rules have changed, someone isn't paying attention, or the rules clearly don't mean anything.
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IMO, It's a silly rule and should be violated as often as possible, thus rendering it unenforceable. All works are to some extent derivative, and any humorous arc with even a whiff of a reference could be considered parody.
I'm hoping they're just using it as an excuse to be able to remove any content they want for any reason (which they're already allowed to anyway, so who knows).
bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenth ur-
nuk!
Then again The_Alt_oholic, as I mentioned and as others have also written about here, this particular arc does appear to be "legit" according to the MA Code of Conduct since it wouldn't technically fall under any of those 2 categories.
There is no "blatant non-conformity with the rules", IMO and in that of others.
Whether or not the MA evaluators see it the same way remains to be seen, it's true.
I've seen a few arcs which could definitely be called "derivative works" of the printed CoH books / comics.* Not only are they not removed, some have even made it to Devs' Choice.
I'd say just publish what you have in mind, and see how people react.
* Someone even said to me: "Isn't anything we do using ingame content (maps, critters, etc.) considered a `derivative work` since it's copyrighted material?"
█ Players Guide to the Cities
Just played it; didn't find it to be any kind of violation at all. Alt, did you actually play the arc? It's an hommage, to be sure, but certainly it's own story set squarely within the CoH world.
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Current opinion poll: Should I add a lost NPC in a wetsuit in here, or is that too much?
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Yes, add the NPC and No, it's not too much! It would actually address something that's currently missing: since most of the mobs are non-verbal and just grunt and groan, some other way of injecting in-mish dialogue would be a great boost. You've already set the table for it with the hilarious contact speech along with the story about the first, failed mission. I think a hapless NPC with some funny lines would be a terrific addition and further extend the humor from the contact into the mish itself.
EC
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I've seen a few arcs which could definitely be called "derivative works" of the printed CoH books / comics.* Not only are they not removed, some have even made it to Devs' Choice.
..........
* Someone even said to me: "Isn't anything we do using ingame content (maps, critters, etc.) considered a `derivative work` since it's copyrighted material?"
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I agree completely that anything generated in game with the MA is derivative of CoX.
But that is stretching the point.
Of course, you can use game-content in the game and, of course, you could relate your work to content that was generated to be part of the game history/environment.
You know that isn't what I'm talking about.
This is isn't about extremes. It is about what is meant by what his posted as rules for us to follow.
Clearly what you did was derivative. It was derived from Fantastic Voyage. You flatly point to that when you talked about Fantastic Voyage in the blurb.
To me the title is clearly a parody even if the mission isn't - if it has to do with "shrinking down" and going inside of someones body.... It sounds like a parody for me regardless if it has characters that were from the original story or not.
Do I think that you are a bad person or wrong for creating a parody or derivative work?
No.
Am I questioning how the no derivative/no parody rule in the EULA, etc. is enforced and what it actually means?
Yes.
Is it only handling situations where the copyright holders know what is going on and are taking active action to have it stopped?
We know that Marvel isn't going to want Marvel derivative content or Parodies of Marvel stories, characters, groups created in the MA/AE.
I'm assuming that with the DC game coming out, that they will pretty rapidly step up their campaign on this level too - especially when their title drops.
We all know how Lucas is about this kind of thing. Disney too.
It shouldn't need to take a copyright holder to complain in order to require the EULA to kick in under certain circumstances.
I like this game. Sometimes the rules are here to protect it. I have the feeling that the no parody/no derivative works rule is here to protect Paragon Studios more than it is in place to protect us.
When a DEV/Redname comes to the boards and posts something that implies that they are backing a certain kind of behavior that appears to have been outlined as not acceptable in the EULA, etc. - it implicates them in that behavior.
I know I like to play CoX. Probably too much so.
I would hate to see this game get shutdown because of something the EULA was created to protect them from.
Would you?
That is what I'm talking about, so that's why I started posting in regards to this. Maybe I should have been more clear and to the point in my first posting here.
I was hoping that it could be figured out before I had to point at the thing and say why is that certain thing going on that appears to be potentially endangering the game.
I think it is good that you are creating missions in MA.
I hope everyone creates well-thought out content for the MA.
I think we can do it without being derivative or creating parodies. I think that the EULA, etc. clearly state that we are not to create derivative or parodies in the MA.
This is a great discussion and I hope it will benefit others who may be wondering the same things we are. It may not be on topic, but I appreciate the comments.
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...Clearly what you did was derivative. It was derived from Fantastic Voyage...
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I would respectfully disagree on that point.
Let's use a definition of Derivative work I just got off a Google hit. Not big research, but it seems to fit.
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Just What Are Derivative Works
A derivative work is a new, original product that includes aspects of a preexisting, already copyrighted work. Also known as a "new version," derivative works can include musical arrangements, motion pictures, art reproductions, sound recordings or translations. They can also include dramatizations and fictionalizations, such as a movie based on a play.
A work is derivative if it incorporates copyrightable material. For example, if you develop a television show based on a book, the new show would be considered a derivative work under copyright law.
On the other hand, a new work is classified as new, not derivative, if it does not actually incorporate any copyrightable material from that preexisting work.
Other examples of derivative works include:
- Making a motion picture based on a play
- Translating an English novel into Spanish
- Remixing previously released tracks with new instrumentation
- Making a sculpture based on a drawing
- Creating a painting based on a photograph
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To me the title is clearly a parody even if the mission isn't - if it has to do with "shrinking down" and going inside of someones body.... It sounds like a parody for me regardless if it has characters that were from the original story or not.
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I can understand your viewpoint, but from my own standpoint (way over here), it comes down to perspective. No pun intended.
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A parody (pronounced [&#712;p&#603;&#633;&#601;di&#7 20;] US, [&#712;pa&#633;&#601;di&#720;] UK, also called send-up or spoof), in contemporary usage, is a [u]work created to mock, comment on, or poke fun at an original work, its subject, or author, or some other target, by means of humorous, satiric or ironic imitation[u].
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My arc is doing none of the highlighted objectives a parody is supposed to bring about. I do prefer to refer to it as being an hommage, which that was how I intended it to be.
By making the term cover a larger definition, we could say "Honey I shrunk the Kids" and "Innerspace" could be parodies of "Fantastic Voyage", which they're not. Innerspace may be an adaptation, and therefore a funny derivative work of Fantastic voyage, but if the single use of a "shrink ray" is enough to define one's work as a parody, then every Saturday morning superhero / SF cartoon series I've seen is at risk.
The trouble may lie in that Fantastic Voyage was the first widely seen use of this idea, and therefore casts its shadow over any other uses.
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I like this game. Sometimes the rules are here to protect it. I have the feeling that the no parody/no derivative works rule is here to protect Paragon Studios more than it is in place to protect us.
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Nail -> Head.
I think we agree that this rule is intentionaly left vague, and relatively unenforced, until the need arises, spurred on by legal threats. NCSoft needs to cover its own legal behind, and that's completely understandable.
And yes, if it comes to having to change, or even delete this arc if asked to do so by the powers that be in Paragon City, I will.
I have no intention of seeing CoH come to legal actions because of a witty idea I had. 
█ Players Guide to the Cities
Qr - well, I'm glad that's been sorted out now.
It looks like a cool arc. When coh let's me back in I'll give it a go.
Eco
MArcs:
The Echo, Arc ID 1688 (5mish, easy, drama)
The Audition, Arc ID 221240 (6 mish, complex mech, comedy)
Storming Citadel, Arc ID 379488 (lowbie, 1mish, 10-min timed)
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
[The Incarnate System is] Jack Emmert all over again, only this time it's not "1 hero = 3 white minions" it's "1 hero = 3 white rocks."
|
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Qr - well, I'm glad that's been sorted out now.
It looks like a cool arc. When coh let's me back in I'll give it a go.
Eco
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You can't log in?
Have you tried explaining your trouble in the Technical Issues and Bugs or Player Questions sections?
█ Players Guide to the Cities
Ignore that...
I just found your post in another thread.
Looking forward to your feedback.
Note: I've received a tip last night which I agreed wholeheartedly might help set an even better atmosphere in this arc. I'll see if I can do that tonight, and credit the player accordingly here.
█ Players Guide to the Cities
I attempted to find a way to change either the names or the info on the critters in this arc last night, to no avail.
The mobs were already in custom groups, which was what a kind player had proposed, but unless I make them all boss encounters I can't find any way to give them custom names / infos.
That said, I did bring about a couple more corrections: typos and some dialogue tweaks.
I realized that one of the things I mentioned originally was medically improbable, so that was changed.
A little "easter egg" of sorts has also been added in mission 1, since there were requests for it multiple times.
█ Players Guide to the Cities
Limited Edition Poster!
Arc Name: A Voyage Fantastic
Arc ID: 81829
Morality: Neutral
Factions: "Recycled" Hydra, Elementals. High level range.
Difficulty Level: Easy to average. Mission 2 has EB/AV.
Synopsis: (Humoristic hommage) - The Rikti ambassador is sick with an unknown bacterial infection. Your placement agency has just recommended you to Dr. Scott Wachhorst for an experimental technique you'll be perfect for.
Estimated Time to Play: 2 missions, approx. 20 minutes solo.
Other details: Inspired from the movie/book Fantastic Voyage, in case it wasn't obvious already. Intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Re-use of existing critters kept the size under 13%.
Comments and critiques always appreciated, of course.
Current opinion poll: Should I add a lost NPC in a wetsuit in here, or is that too much?
█ Players Guide to the Cities