I haz a question, somewhere some1 said pb is a must have for poison MMs...why is that?
im rollin around with my new necro/poison/soul, and usin soul storm for puttin people down for my pets, and i generally do well. I dont normally do zones with him cuz the zombies like to attack the red and white guys :P.
Built my MM for 1v1 arena, got him to about 1350 hp, 50% resist to all and a nice 55% recharge bonus.
[ QUOTE ]
That I'm not sure. I have been thinking on frankslotting ninjas with proc and place a lot of debuff proc on powers,or build it for +def in melee.I haven''t think much on +rechg,don't see much benefit form it.
Whatever the change I will go mako PPP for sure and will lead it for more aggressive play style. Will be the second build for my MM.I got about 350mill.My idea is to make iether a die hard or faster killer MM.
Any opinion on what a solid PvP MM should be like?
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry I haven't had much time to respond. I'm working Hero Planner to make a good build for you. I'll post it when I can. 
I have a question for everyone keeping up with the thread.
What MM would be the best against all other MM's?
It seems like people like poisons pains and darks but can any of them keep up with the disruption from a /storm?
Seems like /storm MM would beat any other secondary MM if skill levels were equal just due to disruption?
Thoughts?
What primary usually tops other primaries in direct battle? Thugs or Bots?
Trance's Thugs/Poison is ridiculously good in duels*
*arena, lolz fiteklub
Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
lolz PvP anymore, Market PvP for fun and profit
[ QUOTE ]
Trance's Thugs/Poison is ridiculously good in duels*
*arena, lolz fiteklub
[/ QUOTE ]
That it is. Although he's thinking of burning a respec on a power, although I can't remember what it was.
I'd like a rematch with him sometime 
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question for everyone keeping up with the thread.
What MM would be the best against all other MM's?
It seems like people like poisons pains and darks but can any of them keep up with the disruption from a /storm?
Seems like /storm MM would beat any other secondary MM if skill levels were equal just due to disruption?
Thoughts?
What primary usually tops other primaries in direct battle? Thugs or Bots?
[/ QUOTE ]
There, in truth, is no best.
Although there are powerful builds not all of them are invincible, and you will be trying to find a non-existant needle in a hay stack if you're truly seeking an "in vincible" MM build with which to fight other MMs.
I would suggest /Storm, /Poison, /Dark, /anything but FF
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question for everyone keeping up with the thread.
What MM would be the best against all other MM's?
It seems like people like poisons pains and darks but can any of them keep up with the disruption from a /storm?
Seems like /storm MM would beat any other secondary MM if skill levels were equal just due to disruption?
Thoughts?
What primary usually tops other primaries in direct battle? Thugs or Bots?
[/ QUOTE ]
There, in truth, is no best.
Although there are powerful builds not all of them are invincible, and you will be trying to find a non-existant needle in a hay stack if you're truly seeking an "in vincible" MM build with which to fight other MMs.
I would suggest /Storm, /Poison, /Dark, /anything but FF
[/ QUOTE ]
I had a whole long paragraph typed out very similar to what Bookkeeper Jay is saying, but when I went to continue it said the forum was invalid or something, so I lost it all...but BK Jay sums it up very nicely. /pain has great heals, /poison has great debuffs, no self heal, /storm has great debuffs, no self heal, /dark has decent debuffs (also dark servant) and a great self/team heal. From the numbers it would seem /storm would be one of the better 1v1 builds because of all the KB and -acc but you lack a good self heal. I've beaten /pain, and /traps, and /poison (never fought a /storm MM) and according to the numbers, I should have been out matched, but it's not as simple as standing in BG mode and seeing who prevails. You have to know when to focus all your pets on specific pets of the MM and to risk getting out of BG mode. When I beat the thug/pain I had to take out the arsonist first, then the bruiser and only then I turned all my pets on the MM himself. And in a 10 min match I only beat him 1-0. If I would have stayed in BG mode the whole time I probably would have lost that one.
Primaries, again each prim has strengths and weaknesses and in the end it will boil down to who is the better pvp player.
So, just find a primary that interests you and a secondary that would be fun to play, and become good at it in pve, and that will/should help you a lot in pvp. When I first made my ninja/dark I had no intentions of pvp. I built him thinking ninja rely on defense, so /dark has the best -acc (storm wasn't a MM /sec yet) so they would go hand in hand. Also, ninjas like to go melee and stay together so the aoe heal works great for them. And dark servant and oni (3rd tier pet) both have holds so that helps out. After lvl'n him to 50 (not once pvp'n with him) i did a couple of respecs to find the best build and now he is one of my most favorite pvp characters.
Only mastermind to give my necro/storm trouble so far was another necro/storm. I've fought a fair number of darks, poisons, and traps, although admittedly most of them weren't that great. Hurricane really messes pets up though if the MM doesn't have some kinda of aoe -defense though... so much so that I usually don't even have to heal my pets anymore.
[ QUOTE ]
Only mastermind to give my necro/storm trouble so far was another necro/storm. I've fought a fair number of darks, poisons, and traps, although admittedly most of them weren't that great. Hurricane really messes pets up though if the MM doesn't have some kinda of aoe -defense though... so much so that I usually don't even have to heal my pets anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok that's what I figured. I didn't believe what these other guys were saying about "ANY SECONDARY AND PRIMARY IS OK LOL". That just isn't how pvp works.
Positronbot, you say you do fine with /dark and I'm sure you do. You are a good player I'm sure and you have more IOs on that /dark than I could ever imagine. And yet you got trounced by a /storm TROLLER. Not even a /storm MM who would have even more damage and offense than a troller.
So /storm trumps the other secondaries.
And I know damn well that every primary doesn't do fine against every other primary. Ninjas would get mowed down by bots or thugs, even though they are great against single targets, probably the best there is.
My guess would be thugs/storm or bots/storm would beat any other MM. Just not sure whether thugs or bots would be top.
I can't believe some of you are actually going to sit and say that anything works with anything against anything...
We are talking equal skill levels and sets here, just pure what pet/secondary trumps what, and YES SOME TRUMP OTHERS.
That is reality.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only mastermind to give my necro/storm trouble so far was another necro/storm. I've fought a fair number of darks, poisons, and traps, although admittedly most of them weren't that great. Hurricane really messes pets up though if the MM doesn't have some kinda of aoe -defense though... so much so that I usually don't even have to heal my pets anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok that's what I figured. I didn't believe what these other guys were saying about "ANY SECONDARY AND PRIMARY IS OK LOL". That just isn't how pvp works.
Positronbot, you say you do fine with /dark and I'm sure you do. You are a good player I'm sure and you have more IOs on that /dark than I could ever imagine. And yet you got trounced by a /storm TROLLER. Not even a /storm MM who would have even more damage and offense than a troller.
So /storm trumps the other secondaries.
And I know damn well that every primary doesn't do fine against every other primary. Ninjas would get mowed down by bots or thugs, even though they are great against single targets, probably the best there is.
My guess would be thugs/storm or bots/storm would beat any other MM. Just not sure whether thugs or bots would be top.
I can't believe some of you are actually going to sit and say that anything works with anything against anything...
We are talking equal skill levels and sets here, just pure what pet/secondary trumps what, and YES SOME TRUMP OTHERS.
That is reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
In a sense, no thats not how pvp works. You're right. But also, a great pvp player can beat a mediocre pvp player even with a lesser build. I definitely think /storm is one of the better 1v1 secondaries for MM, as I said earlier. But it IS beatable by other MM with proper strategy. The first time I played the /storm troller, he beat me 5-0, second time, 2-0 (and no, I didnt just RUN more ). I learned from my mistakes and found ways to over come some of his -acc. Also, a trollers -acc from hurricane is greater than a MM. To say that a /storm MM would be much harder to beat than a /storm troller isn't quite true.
Also, to say Ninjas would get mowed down by bots or thugs is definitely inaccurate. Like I said, its how you play the set. I would be hard pressed to agree that one build is gonna trump another. Anything doesn't work against anything, but played well you can make a lot of MM sets very good at pvp.
ive also since played other storm trollers and defenders (i know, dont count) and have beat each one. I do think a ninja/storm or thug/storm or merc/storm would be a great pvp build though.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Only mastermind to give my necro/storm trouble so far was another necro/storm. I've fought a fair number of darks, poisons, and traps, although admittedly most of them weren't that great. Hurricane really messes pets up though if the MM doesn't have some kinda of aoe -defense though... so much so that I usually don't even have to heal my pets anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok that's what I figured. I didn't believe what these other guys were saying about "ANY SECONDARY AND PRIMARY IS OK LOL". That just isn't how pvp works.
Positronbot, you say you do fine with /dark and I'm sure you do. You are a good player I'm sure and you have more IOs on that /dark than I could ever imagine. And yet you got trounced by a /storm TROLLER. Not even a /storm MM who would have even more damage and offense than a troller.
So /storm trumps the other secondaries.
And I know damn well that every primary doesn't do fine against every other primary. Ninjas would get mowed down by bots or thugs, even though they are great against single targets, probably the best there is.
My guess would be thugs/storm or bots/storm would beat any other MM. Just not sure whether thugs or bots would be top.
I can't believe some of you are actually going to sit and say that anything works with anything against anything...
We are talking equal skill levels and sets here, just pure what pet/secondary trumps what, and YES SOME TRUMP OTHERS.
That is reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
In a sense, no thats not how pvp works. You're right. But also, a great pvp player can beat a mediocre pvp player even with a lesser build. I definitely think /storm is one of the better 1v1 secondaries for MM, as I said earlier. But it IS beatable by other MM with proper strategy. The first time I played the /storm troller, he beat me 5-0, second time, 2-0 (and no, I didnt just RUN more ). I learned from my mistakes and found ways to over come some of his -acc. Also, a trollers -acc from hurricane is greater than a MM. To say that a /storm MM would be much harder to beat than a /storm troller isn't quite true.
Also, to say Ninjas would get mowed down by bots or thugs is definitely inaccurate. Like I said, its how you play the set. I would be hard pressed to agree that one build is gonna trump another. Anything doesn't work against anything, but played well you can make a lot of MM sets very good at pvp.
ive also since played other storm trollers and defenders (i know, dont count) and have beat each one. I do think a ninja/storm or thug/storm or merc/storm would be a great pvp build though.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm. I believe what you say but I just find it hard to imagine that a non-storm MM can beat a /storm MM.
But like I said though I'm only talking about equal skills here. Of course a good /dark would beat a bad /storm.
A /Poison can beat a /Storm if Envenom hit with Powerbuild up.
Usually if you take tactics and have your pets slotted for a good amount of ACC you can overcome the -ToHit.
Yes storm is strong, but no it is not invincible.
[ QUOTE ]
A /Poison can beat a /Storm if Envenom hit with Powerbuild up.
Usually if you take tactics and have your pets slotted for a good amount of ACC you can overcome the -ToHit.
Yes storm is strong, but no it is not invincible.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who cares how accurate your pets are if they are all over the place from tornado's/lightning storms/hurricane pushing?
[ QUOTE ]
A /Poison can beat a /Storm if Envenom hit with Powerbuild up.
Usually if you take tactics and have your pets slotted for a good amount of ACC you can overcome the -ToHit.
Yes storm is strong, but no it is not invincible.
[/ QUOTE ]
Powerboosted /Poison would still lose if the /Storm is also powerboosted. Don't forget that poison is not the only set that can benefit form it.
While poison debuff are great a storm can disable his opponent Pet AI. Storm play it well with good IO is by far the best set to destroy MM's.
Is not invincible but is one or the most hardest to overcome in PvP for a MM.
I want /Fire stalker. Because nothing says stealth like dumping a can of gasoline on yourself and lighting a match. -Morac
Stormies are usually the only things that give my MM too much trouble. The other thing is defense-based builds but that's more due to my secondary having a heal that requries a tohit check (I'm Thugs/Dark/Mace). Nice thing about Dark's heal though - the heal itself is a pet so it's not subject to diminishing returns (you are still affected by heal decay, but if TG heals for 450 HP in PvE, it'll heal for 450 HP in PvP, unlike other heals), and Power Boost + TG is a massive heal for a low-HP AT (mine is something like 563 HP).
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
Storm is -not- the best 1v1 mastermind build.
Storm is absolutely the best anti-Mastermind build, though. Virtually nothing in MMs really can deal with storm. Traps -could- place its -def away from the stormie, so that it doesn't get hurricaned. This does not really work in practice. Poison could weaken hurricane (and powerboost + weaken is very powerful) but even still it does not gimp the mass knockback, whch ruins your pets' dps and in the end storm wins the war.
I've never straight up -dueled- GV's necro/storm but I've fought against it in team matchups where the teams were roughly equal except for his necro/storm and my mercs/psn. The necro/storm completely dominated that match, even though I stayed on him and kept weaken on him pretty much the whole time. I just spent so much of my time knocked around or stunned by tornado that occasionally weaken would drop and I'd be -tohit janked for ever. The big thing that eventually happened is that my pet recharges eventually couldn't keep up with the necro/storm's dps and I died.
Regarding /pain MMs, they are invincible more or less if WoP is up and they have even competent slotting. Take out their minions with AoE if you can, or just ST burst them down. You want to try and get them down to 1-2 pets if you can. If you can do that, they'll be forced to run or phase. If this sounds too difficult, let me tell you - it is too difficult.
[ QUOTE ]
Storm is -not- the best 1v1 mastermind build.
Storm is absolutely the best anti-Mastermind build, though. Virtually nothing in MMs really can deal with storm. Traps -could- place its -def away from the stormie, so that it doesn't get hurricaned. This does not really work in practice. Poison could weaken hurricane (and powerboost + weaken is very powerful) but even still it does not gimp the mass knockback, whch ruins your pets' dps and in the end storm wins the war.
I've never straight up -dueled- GV's necro/storm but I've fought against it in team matchups where the teams were roughly equal except for his necro/storm and my mercs/psn. The necro/storm completely dominated that match, even though I stayed on him and kept weaken on him pretty much the whole time. I just spent so much of my time knocked around or stunned by tornado that occasionally weaken would drop and I'd be -tohit janked for ever. The big thing that eventually happened is that my pet recharges eventually couldn't keep up with the necro/storm's dps and I died.
Regarding /pain MMs, they are invincible more or less if WoP is up and they have even competent slotting. Take out their minions with AoE if you can, or just ST burst them down. You want to try and get them down to 1-2 pets if you can. If you can do that, they'll be forced to run or phase. If this sounds too difficult, let me tell you - it is too difficult.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I was only really thinking about MM vs. MM for /storm.
I think for dueling anything else I'd actually rather be /poison or maybe a /pain with taunt.
[ QUOTE ]
Storm is -not- the best 1v1 mastermind build.
Storm is absolutely the best anti-Mastermind build, though. Virtually nothing in MMs really can deal with storm. Traps -could- place its -def away from the stormie, so that it doesn't get hurricaned. This does not really work in practice. Poison could weaken hurricane (and powerboost + weaken is very powerful) but even still it does not gimp the mass knockback, whch ruins your pets' dps and in the end storm wins the war.
I've never straight up -dueled- GV's necro/storm but I've fought against it in team matchups where the teams were roughly equal except for his necro/storm and my mercs/psn. The necro/storm completely dominated that match, even though I stayed on him and kept weaken on him pretty much the whole time. I just spent so much of my time knocked around or stunned by tornado that occasionally weaken would drop and I'd be -tohit janked for ever. The big thing that eventually happened is that my pet recharges eventually couldn't keep up with the necro/storm's dps and I died.
Regarding /pain MMs, they are invincible more or less if WoP is up and they have even competent slotting. Take out their minions with AoE if you can, or just ST burst them down. You want to try and get them down to 1-2 pets if you can. If you can do that, they'll be forced to run or phase. If this sounds too difficult, let me tell you - it is too difficult.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pain hardly ever gives me problems. They can't cause enough debuffs (-to hit, -fear, -slow) that other sets can. Sure they are a great healer, but if you strategize correctly, a /pain can be a cake walk. You just have to know which pets to take down first, and when to turn all your pets on the MM. For thugs, I take down the arsonist, then bruiser, then MM. I don't even worry about gang war anymore, they just don't do that much damage.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Storm is -not- the best 1v1 mastermind build.
Storm is absolutely the best anti-Mastermind build, though. Virtually nothing in MMs really can deal with storm. Traps -could- place its -def away from the stormie, so that it doesn't get hurricaned. This does not really work in practice. Poison could weaken hurricane (and powerboost + weaken is very powerful) but even still it does not gimp the mass knockback, whch ruins your pets' dps and in the end storm wins the war.
I've never straight up -dueled- GV's necro/storm but I've fought against it in team matchups where the teams were roughly equal except for his necro/storm and my mercs/psn. The necro/storm completely dominated that match, even though I stayed on him and kept weaken on him pretty much the whole time. I just spent so much of my time knocked around or stunned by tornado that occasionally weaken would drop and I'd be -tohit janked for ever. The big thing that eventually happened is that my pet recharges eventually couldn't keep up with the necro/storm's dps and I died.
Regarding /pain MMs, they are invincible more or less if WoP is up and they have even competent slotting. Take out their minions with AoE if you can, or just ST burst them down. You want to try and get them down to 1-2 pets if you can. If you can do that, they'll be forced to run or phase. If this sounds too difficult, let me tell you - it is too difficult.
[/ QUOTE ]
Pain hardly ever gives me problems. They can't cause enough debuffs (-to hit, -fear, -slow) that other sets can. Sure they are a great healer, but if you strategize correctly, a /pain can be a cake walk. You just have to know which pets to take down first, and when to turn all your pets on the MM. For thugs, I take down the arsonist, then bruiser, then MM. I don't even worry about gang war anymore, they just don't do that much damage.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hmmm, I'd like to take you on in a duel on the test server if you'd like.
I'm always up for a fight, and this is very interesting indeed.
Of course that goes hand in hand with my boredom of leveling my Ninjas/FF currently.
Any good MM slots for pet recharge and scatters their pets to keep them out of AoE. Pain pets actually have a huge advantage since they can hit through debuffs a lot better thanks to WoP. Most MMs can't even kill a pain in BG, and a good pain has a minion resummon every 30 seconds-ish which is way faster than you can kill them without dropping BG. Any smart MM that sees his pets going down faster than he is is going to go into partial BG and make you pay grievously.
/Storms are tricky.
I would keep my distance with pets spread out behind me.
I would open the fight with Paralytic Poison to drop Hurricane before he can touch me with it and set his pets off to attack me.
Neurotoxic Breath and Webnade to stop him and pets completely if he doesnt have Super Speed.
Bruiser would be already running up as I use Power Boosted Envenom and Weaken and refresh the slows. If Lightning Storm is underway I would summon Gang War to help mitigate the damage and end drains and by that time I would leave BG Mode and force my pets to target the MM.
Getting hit with Hurricane is prob the most worrisome part of the fight. If it hits the pets or myself Hurricanes effects lasts a good 8-10s from -range after gettin' touched from it and all my pets end up rushing into melee range (which is what I never want).
I dont use Noxious Gas very much unless its necessary.
/Storm although is good for PvP, as well.
[ QUOTE ]
Any good MM slots for pet recharge and scatters their pets to keep them out of AoE. Pain pets actually have a huge advantage since they can hit through debuffs a lot better thanks to WoP. Most MMs can't even kill a pain in BG, and a good pain has a minion resummon every 30 seconds-ish which is way faster than you can kill them without dropping BG. Any smart MM that sees his pets going down faster than he is is going to go into partial BG and make you pay grievously.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ah noticed me concentrating on your pets huh? just what I was waiting for, you pulled couple off BG mode... SURPRISE!!!... Hit you with a shield charge an followed with KO blow, what? can't send new orders to hench? darn shame that is... time for your beatdown
MMs get Shield Charge?
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
[ QUOTE ]
MMs get Shield Charge?
[/ QUOTE ]
hehe only MM vs MM duals huh? well see slipped in door with my lvl 50 ninja/dark but only to sneak in one my brutes on second account
I have a 50 Thugs/Poison, kinda Accoladed and IOd that I bring out every now and then and he does fine.
Have a 50 Necro/Pain that I nominally made for PvP but I find too boring to play in either setting, especially with everyone and their mother having a Thugs/Pain or Whatever/Pain these days.
PvPing with my MM is fun, I just dislike fighting /Pain MMs. Bodyguard+Aura + a beatings from Gang War = sad Kara.
The closest I've come to overcoming one was with my Plant/Psi Dom, oddly enough and I had 4 purples running at the time and spammed PSW and such like crazy.
Still haven't found that elusive mix of exiciting, annoying and non-soporific MM for PvP, though my Thugs/Poison is very nice.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes