Which Power set for Tanks is the most Survivable?

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O.k. I really didn't want the "Political" answers. Excuse me for being unclear. Let me put it this way, when you respond, what would you pick for your UBERMAN, comic book hero? So far, the 2 top dog answers I'm seeing for Survivabilty are WP and INV. These seem to be going back and forth. So, with out giving an answer predicated upon the fact that there are many variables to survivablity. Give your best educated assuption on what YOU think is the best, and what YOU would choose as an overall DEF set for your UBERMAN, for say, [insert brand] comics. Would you take INV, but be succeptible to weaknesses such as: fear, confuse, and psi damage? Or take WP and have those protections but not as much resistance and Def as INV? Choose your top 3 then give reasons for your pick. Please, no more politically correct answers.

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Political? I don't think that word means what you think it does.

In order of raw survivability, which seems to be what you're insisting on, it would go something like:

Top two:
Granite Stone
Invuln soft capped
..................
The rest:
WP as long as we aren't including aggro control since your secondary is going to have to do nearly all the work.
Ice soft capped
Invuln with standard SO build
*Shield soft capped (extrapolated from my Shield scrapper, I haven't played or teamed with a Shield tank)
Stone without Granite
Dark - it's a bit squishy and highly reliant on it's heal hitting.
Fire - about a tie with Dark, equally squishy but doesn't have to hit enemies to heal.

Player skill makes an IMMENSE difference in this ranking... I'd take a great tanker playing a Fire over an idiot playing a Granite any day. This is also figured in isolation since the secondary pairing is another huge issue in the ranking.

Personally I've played Stone and Invuln to 50 and Fire to around 35, and have teamed with good tankers of every other primary but Shield... that's what I'm basing my opinions on. Ask 50 experienced tankers their opinion and you're likely to get roughly the same survivability rankings from most of them. Nobody's going to question the number one slot of Granite (assuming the player has a clue and is built halfway decently) and few will question Dark & Fire as the squishiest (but each has other advantages, notably in damage output).

[/ QUOTE ]Dark is in no way shape or form squishy. you get minimum 50% resists to all, a heal that only needs acc and end slotting (since each target gives you 1/3 of your bar), OG is especially good on tankers with their lower damage mod, and if you take CoD you can get about 10% defense to all in addition to your amazing resists to *every* damage type (except Hamidon and Crystal Titan).

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Apostrophe guidelines.

Since we're into pure opinion-land... Willpower for me.

It'll survive pretty much whatever (because let's face it, my /WP Brute does), and gets QR at 12.

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Dark is in no way shape or form squishy. you get minimum 50% resists to all, a heal that only needs acc and end slotting (since each target gives you 1/3 of your bar), OG is especially good on tankers with their lower damage mod, and if you take CoD you can get about 10% defense to all in addition to your amazing resists to *every* damage type (except Hamidon and Crystal Titan).

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I'm afraid Dark is squishy compared to other tankers... roughly on par with Fire. I haven't played one myself but I have played with other competent tankers playing Dark Armor... they completely live and die by Dark Regeneration. One missed heal typically sends them to the floor.

They actually seem squishier than Fire tankers, their health bar yo-yo's constantly from full to red to full to oops, heal missed to dead. They lack any form of HP buff, they lack any significant source of defense to back up the resistance and they're completely crippled by any tohit debuff or mob defense buffs. They're ok dealing with normal mobs up to maybe +2... anything beyond that, or things like Nemesis with Vengeance chew them up badly.

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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

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O.k. I really didn't want the "Political" answers. Excuse me for being unclear. Let me put it this way, when you respond, what would you pick for your UBERMAN, comic book hero? So far, the 2 top dog answers I'm seeing for Survivabilty are WP and INV. These seem to be going back and forth. So, with out giving an answer predicated upon the fact that there are many variables to survivablity. Give your best educated assuption on what YOU think is the best, and what YOU would choose as an overall DEF set for your UBERMAN, for say, [insert brand] comics. Would you take INV, but be succeptible to weaknesses such as: fear, confuse, and psi damage? Or take WP and have those protections but not as much resistance and Def as INV? Choose your top 3 then give reasons for your pick. Please, no more politically correct answers.

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Political? I don't think that word means what you think it does.

In order of raw survivability, which seems to be what you're insisting on, it would go something like:

Top two:
Granite Stone
Invuln soft capped
..................
The rest:
WP as long as we aren't including aggro control since your secondary is going to have to do nearly all the work.
Ice soft capped
Invuln with standard SO build
*Shield soft capped (extrapolated from my Shield scrapper, I haven't played or teamed with a Shield tank)
Stone without Granite
Dark - it's a bit squishy and highly reliant on it's heal hitting.
Fire - about a tie with Dark, equally squishy but doesn't have to hit enemies to heal.

Player skill makes an IMMENSE difference in this ranking... I'd take a great tanker playing a Fire over an idiot playing a Granite any day. This is also figured in isolation since the secondary pairing is another huge issue in the ranking.

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So what happends when you play your INV-Tanker and take him into situations against Rikti, COT-Spectral class mobs, and Carnie? What happends when you fight stuff that is heavy on Psy, Confuse, and Fear attacks? Do you just avoid that stuff? Do you have problems? Do you walk right through it? Do you handle it but it's troublesome and you die occasionally if you are not careful?

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O.k. I really didn't want the "Political" answers. Excuse me for being unclear. Let me put it this way, when you respond, what would you pick for your UBERMAN, comic book hero? So far, the 2 top dog answers I'm seeing for Survivabilty are WP and INV. These seem to be going back and forth. So, with out giving an answer predicated upon the fact that there are many variables to survivablity. Give your best educated assuption on what YOU think is the best, and what YOU would choose as an overall DEF set for your UBERMAN, for say, [insert brand] comics. Would you take INV, but be succeptible to weaknesses such as: fear, confuse, and psi damage? Or take WP and have those protections but not as much resistance and Def as INV? Choose your top 3 then give reasons for your pick. Please, no more politically correct answers.

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Political? I don't think that word means what you think it does.

In order of raw survivability, which seems to be what you're insisting on, it would go something like:

Top two:
Granite Stone
Invuln soft capped
..................
The rest:
WP as long as we aren't including aggro control since your secondary is going to have to do nearly all the work.
Ice soft capped
Invuln with standard SO build
*Shield soft capped (extrapolated from my Shield scrapper, I haven't played or teamed with a Shield tank)
Stone without Granite
Dark - it's a bit squishy and highly reliant on it's heal hitting.
Fire - about a tie with Dark, equally squishy but doesn't have to hit enemies to heal.

Player skill makes an IMMENSE difference in this ranking... I'd take a great tanker playing a Fire over an idiot playing a Granite any day. This is also figured in isolation since the secondary pairing is another huge issue in the ranking.

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So what happends when you play your INV-Tanker and take him into situations against Rikti, COT-Spectral class mobs, and Carnie? What happends when you fight stuff that is heavy on Psy, Confuse, and Fear attacks? Do you just avoid that stuff? Do you have problems? Do you walk right through it? Do you handle it but it's troublesome and you die occasionally if you are not careful?

[/ QUOTE ] I can't speak for the person you quoted, but I don't have any problems with fear or confuse on my invul. Maybe my set bonuses help me in that regard, but it's still true.

As for the Rikti, I've led ship raids as the main tank and don't have problems. Granted, I usually have somebody keep Fortitude on me the whole time, but that just goes to my good planning. Even if the Emp dies and Fort drops, it just means I might temporarily have to hit Dull pain and/or a couple inspirations to tide me over. There are also many other classes of support you can get to help you. It's still no big deal either way. I've been successful even without relying on other people's buffs.

If you don't know how to compensate for possible weaknesses, you're doing it wrong anyway, regardless what you are.

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So what happends when you play your INV-Tanker and take him into situations against Rikti, COT-Spectral class mobs, and Carnie? What happends when you fight stuff that is heavy on Psy, Confuse, and Fear attacks? Do you just avoid that stuff? Do you have problems? Do you walk right through it? Do you handle it but it's troublesome and you die occasionally if you are not careful?


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Actually since issue 13 and my respec into a soft capped def build I have yet to come close to dying... and I've tanked pretty much everything in the game, including a couple of Psi AV's (inspirations or team support are the keys for Psi AV's). Carnies have never been an issue; their biggest danger is simply the end drain when they die. The Psi from the bosses is relatively minor and has never been an issue. The debuff from the Steel Strongmen is almost more of a nuisance than anything else.

Rikti are VERY easy to tank; the few Psi mobs don't hit very hard, and more importantly if you get into melee they pull out their sword instead of using the Psi attack. Monkeys are a complete joke; back in issue 4 with zero psi protection at all I used to herd up several HUNDRED of them at once for a blaster nuke... the badge for them required 10,000 kills at that time. Even with over 200 of them (yeah, I counted in a screenshot) all they managed to do was force me to hit dull pain.

The COT Spectrals are only dangerous in that they have a nasty debuff; they don't actually hurt more than any other mob. Sure, they're a pain to kill by yourself, but if you're the only one getting debuffed then your team won't have any problems with them... and the debuffs aren't going to actually get you killed.

Confuse is EXTREMELY rare in PvE... offhand I can only think of one mob, a Vahz boss in a 15-20 arc, who has a confuse power. Likewise Fear is very rare... Ghost Widow has it and I think I remember one or two other mobs over the 1-50 range who also use fear.

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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

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Dark is in no way shape or form squishy. you get minimum 50% resists to all, a heal that only needs acc and end slotting (since each target gives you 1/3 of your bar), OG is especially good on tankers with their lower damage mod, and if you take CoD you can get about 10% defense to all in addition to your amazing resists to *every* damage type (except Hamidon and Crystal Titan).

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I'm afraid Dark is squishy compared to other tankers... roughly on par with Fire. I haven't played one myself but I have played with other competent tankers playing Dark Armor... they completely live and die by Dark Regeneration. One missed heal typically sends them to the floor.

They actually seem squishier than Fire tankers, their health bar yo-yo's constantly from full to red to full to oops, heal missed to dead. They lack any form of HP buff, they lack any significant source of defense to back up the resistance and they're completely crippled by any tohit debuff or mob defense buffs. They're ok dealing with normal mobs up to maybe +2... anything beyond that, or things like Nemesis with Vengeance chew them up badly.

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, in purely SOs, Dark is up there against the others pretty well. It's when you get into IOs that Dark seems to come up short compared to others because the standard "go for soft-cap" doesn't come as easily to it with its far smaller amount of defense to stack with compared to any other armor set besides /Regen (which is disgustingly powerful with +rech and +regen), and Firey Aura (an offensive armor set with a 75% heal up every 45 seconds or so), both of which have their own tricks with IOs. A pure SO/HO (or even with the only IO being a Karma, Steadfast, or Zephyr) build with Dark Armor is highly viable, getting you a total of: 7.8% defense to all, positional and typed; 46.8% S/L/F/C resist, 31.2% T/E, 62.4% N, and 78% Psi resist.

With just Hami-Os, not even going into IOs, Dark Regen can get to 146.2% accuracy, 17.3 end/cast, 58.5% heal/target, and even a decent chunk of damage.

The main power that everyone skips when comparing Dark Armor with other sets is the mez-aura. This is something unique to Dark Armor. Slotted up, it's a 13.9s mag 2 stun, that pulses every 2 seconds, on an 8 foot radius. This means that within 4 seconds of wading into the mob, everything but an EB/AV is stunned. The self-damage is at that point highly negligible, especially considering that it relies on the damage modifiers of the AT, and the already ignorable damage tic on a scrapper is barely registered. OG is all-but an I Win button, that doesn't even need endurance slotting due to having only one toggle costing less than it, that being Combat Jumping (pre-47: 2 Acc/2 Mez SOs, 47+: 3 Acc/Mez HOs). If one has a power like, say, Foot Stomp to negate the alpha, OG will tick a second time before the mob has a chance to get up.

Edit:

Bringing IOs into the equation for Dark Armor is more about plugging holes than with other sets. Winter's Gift unique, Zephyr/Karma/Steadfast -KBs or Kinetic Crash 4-slotted, a little extra defense (if one goes the CJ and CoD route for whichever reason, you start from a base of 11.7% defense. While this leaves you a very long distance from soft-cap, 33.3% to be precise, it *is* into the "noticeably performance boosting" level.)



Re: "Lead tank on Mothership raids with fort":

Well, *duh*, you can lead-tank with Fort. Any tank armor set can lead-tank anything when forted. A level 50 emp will likely have fort slotted with 3x Membrane, causing it to give 23.4% defense and 29.3% ToHit. A Dark Armor tanker with that will suddenly have 31.2% defense to all. Performance with Fortitude is not a good measure of performance of the powerset in question.

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Apostrophe guidelines.

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I'd have to give the first place nod to Invulnerability as well. Any time anyone mentions Stone as the top dog it comes with the Speed Boost caveat. Reliance on outside buffs is a weakness in my mind which puts stone behind Invulnerability and Willpower which are both "fire and forget" sets. Ultimately though Willpower winds up taking a back seat to Invulnerability due to the lack of a natural self heal.

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True. In fact I agree with you. The thing is...it all depends on your basis of comparison. What you've said is very true, if we're talking about tankers using basic SO builds.

IOs do change things. Inv gets really good with IOs. WP doesn't benefit as much. But Stone...

Thing is... if you throw enough money into a Stone tank, you can get enough +runspeed and +recharge to mitigate the slow effects of Granite. You still can't jump and your damage will suck, but most stoners take teleport anyway. One of my SGmates runs a Stone tank that's been kitted out like this. As she likes to say, Speed Boost is greatly appreciated, but not required for her.

However, her build is hideously expensive. Most Stone builds designed to mitigate Granite's weaknesses are, really. That does put it a bit beyond the casual player. Moreover, if she exemps...it really isn't pretty. It isn't pretty at all. Those could be considered weaknesses.

Should we consider IOs or pool powers when judging how good a powerset is? I dunno. I think it at least bears mentioning.

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I will agree with this, I have a brute thats a /stone and IOed out its THE most
resiliant toon I have, also runs at 21 mph thanks to my IOs. I often use the
SB is welcome but not required to any kin I meet . (note also has -0% rech
after IOs (yes it was expensive))
But truly I find this toon more surviable then either of my tanks (inv and ice)
though not nearly as much money spend on either tank (im more a red side
player)

Note a IOed out sheild tank can be insaine if you soft cap def (not that
hard from what I've heard) you'll be very strong. But my money is on a
Granite tank being best, if your not in to the stone "looks" then WP, INV
might be slightly more survivable but the fast recovery would have me
nearly making WP in a second over INV. (course have a INV tank and
no WP tank make it easier choice to me )

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Slotted up, it's a 13.9s mag 2 stun, that pulses every 2 seconds, on an 8 foot radius. This means that within 4 seconds of wading into the mob, everything but an EB/AV is stunned.

[/ QUOTE ] In my experience, no.

Lts. and above have a built-in status protection of 2 or more - so LTs are 1 mag short of being stunned with a mag 2, and Opressive Gloom IS flagged to not stack with same caster.

Note, there are accolades that can increase mez magnitude, and that will will work, but out of the box OG only takes out minions on it's own.

Note, I have a nice NRG/Dark Armor I'm working on, to stack OG with all the stuns.

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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net

Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.

This is Ms Mayhem. She has an Impervium body Skin to bone, even her hair, so i focused on getting her as tough as possible and getting as much Psi Defence and Resistance as possible. Pretty decent survivability all round. I love Invulnerability.


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Ms Mayhem: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A), ImpSkn-Status(11), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(11), ImpArm-ResDam(23), ImpArm-ResPsi(23), Aegis-Psi/Status(45)
Level 1: Jab -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(33), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- ResDam-I(A), ImpSkn-Status(3), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), ImpArm-ResDam(29), ImpArm-ResPsi(36)
Level 4: Haymaker -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(5), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(7), RechRdx-I(7), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 8: Unyielding -- ResDam-I(A), ImpSkn-Status(9), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(15), ImpArm-ResDam(15), ImpArm-ResPsi(40)
Level 10: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(13)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A), ImpSkn-Status(31), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(33), ImpArm-ResDam(34), ImpArm-ResPsi(34)
Level 18: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A), ImpSkn-Status(19), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(19), ImpArm-ResDam(27), ImpArm-ResPsi(40)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(21), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 22: Health -- Heal-I(A), Numna-Heal(31), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(33)
Level 24: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(25), P'Shift-End%(25)
Level 26: Invincibility -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(37)
Level 28: Rage -- ToHit-I(A), ToHit-I(36), RechRdx-I(37), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 30: Taunt -- Acc-I(A), Taunt-I(31), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 32: Unstoppable -- ResDam-I(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(40), RechRdx-I(42), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(36)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 41: Kick -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(42), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 44: Hurl -- HO:Nucle(A), HO:Nucle(45)
Level 47: Tough -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(48)
Level 49: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet

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Slotted up, it's a 13.9s mag 2 stun, that pulses every 2 seconds, on an 8 foot radius. This means that within 4 seconds of wading into the mob, everything but an EB/AV is stunned.

[/ QUOTE ] In my experience, no.

Lts. and above have a built-in status protection of 2 or more - so LTs are 1 mag short of being stunned with a mag 2, and Opressive Gloom IS flagged to not stack with same caster.

Note, there are accolades that can increase mez magnitude, and that will will work, but out of the box OG only takes out minions on it's own.

Note, I have a nice NRG/Dark Armor I'm working on, to stack OG with all the stuns.

[/ QUOTE ]Ah, it is flagged not to stack with same caster? shame.

Ah well, definitely going to have to go with Earth APP for Stalagmites.

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Apostrophe guidelines.

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[ QUOTE ]
Slotted up, it's a 13.9s mag 2 stun, that pulses every 2 seconds, on an 8 foot radius. This means that within 4 seconds of wading into the mob, everything but an EB/AV is stunned.

[/ QUOTE ] In my experience, no.

Lts. and above have a built-in status protection of 2 or more - so LTs are 1 mag short of being stunned with a mag 2, and Opressive Gloom IS flagged to not stack with same caster.

Note, there are accolades that can increase mez magnitude, and that will will work, but out of the box OG only takes out minions on it's own.

Note, I have a nice NRG/Dark Armor I'm working on, to stack OG with all the stuns.

[/ QUOTE ]Ah, it is flagged not to stack with same caster? shame.

Ah well, definitely going to have to go with Earth APP for Stalagmites.

[/ QUOTE ]
<insert Fault here>

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[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Slotted up, it's a 13.9s mag 2 stun, that pulses every 2 seconds, on an 8 foot radius. This means that within 4 seconds of wading into the mob, everything but an EB/AV is stunned.

[/ QUOTE ] In my experience, no.

Lts. and above have a built-in status protection of 2 or more - so LTs are 1 mag short of being stunned with a mag 2, and Opressive Gloom IS flagged to not stack with same caster.

Note, there are accolades that can increase mez magnitude, and that will will work, but out of the box OG only takes out minions on it's own.

Note, I have a nice NRG/Dark Armor I'm working on, to stack OG with all the stuns.

[/ QUOTE ]Ah, it is flagged not to stack with same caster? shame.

Ah well, definitely going to have to go with Earth APP for Stalagmites.

[/ QUOTE ]
<insert Fault here>

[/ QUOTE ]Mine's /SS. I *could* use Hand Clap, though.

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Apostrophe guidelines.

Very interesting thread. I was dimly aware that Invuln had been reworked but I didn't realize it was now so strong. Good to know.

It appears to me that it's hard to rank what's best overall. Yes, Granite is toughest but it comes with some pretty severe restrictions. For any sort of objective ranking you'd really have to set up particular scenarios (and we can really do that now via the AE, instead of just waving our arms) and then any restrictions, if any, with regard to slotting. A build that someone has spent a billion inf on just can't be compared to an SO build. To further complicate matters, primary can have a big affect on how effectively you tank. An Energy Melee tanker hits hard but doesn't have the mitigation tools of Stone Melee.

I have very limited experience with tanks. I had a burn tanker back in the Dreck days. I know that when I ran normal missions with him he had a hard time tanking on 8 man teams until I respec'd him into Tough. He's retired now so I don't know how much stronger he'd be with IOs.

The only tank I've created since then was an Ice/Stone. Stone is an End hog, but Energy Absorption cured that. I invested in soft capping him, and he's incredibly fun. No self heal in the conventional sense but he has Hibernate and he can pop that, heal up all the way and emerge without ever having lost aggro.

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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

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Very interesting thread. I was dimly aware that Invuln had been reworked but I didn't realize it was now so strong. Good to know.

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The changes to Invuln helped a lot, but they also synergize well with the changes to typed defense bonuses from IO sets. Although those changes really help all the sets with typed defense, Inv is normally the highest of these, so it's in the best position to soft-cap without crippling compromises.

End result is that Inv can be very strong -- certainly it depends on circumstances, but I find myself inclined to agree with those who rank it right behind Granite builds for raw durability, and without the penalties. Other tanker primaries might be less durable but offer attractive inducements in terms of control or damage. I think that the primaries are better balanced against each other than has been the case for a long time, maybe ever, even if they're not perfectly balanced.

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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

I've played every tank except Fire to at least the high 30s. In my experience:

Stone is the strongest situationally, but you have to deal with the slowness. Your best ability comes later in the game - but is game-changing in how good it is.

Willpower is the strongest overall, but you don't have a self-heal. +Regen and +HP help you survive when you can herd the groups around you. Can hold aggro very well, if slotted for it, which keeps those +regen effects high. Also depends a bit on secondary usage.

Invulnerability is the strongest most of the time, especially in herded groups, except you have to consider psy attacks. Holds aggro very well. Lots of toggles, and somewhat high end usage.

Ice is strong early, as it is the first to get a taunt aura effect. The slows (stacked) means you are taking less damage during a long fight. Damage aura can hit things at times your attacks can't. Ice slick means things near you can't attack.

Shields are strongest with another shield user (scrap or tank) or other melee character. Good overall survivability and has one very strong attack/knockdown to mitigate the damage you take. Holds aggro very well, especially when slotted for it.

Dark is strong against most things, but sacrifices some survivability for damage and control effects. The damage and control effects means mobs can't attack as often (mezzed or dead) so you can continue. Still a bit end heavy. Is often at its best with a controller or another melee on the team.

Fire is strongest in the damage it does. Some effects cause foes to flee, which increases survivability but lowers damage ability. Good heal keeps them going. Is weaker than other sets at holding aggro due to fleeing mobs and damage. Great when teamed with another tank, a controller, or a WP/Invuln scrapper (something with a taunt aura to hold foes close).

As to my favorite: 1. WP, 2. Invulnerable, 3. Ice/Shields, 5. Dark, 6. Stone, 7. Fire. I often have WP and Invuln tanks that can out-tank a Stone or any other tanker.

That's my 2 influence.

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I know that this thread is focused on survivability, but the one thing that annoys me about Willpower is either that set has a taunt aura that most WP tankers dont take, or its taunt aura is somehow weaker or pulses less often or something. With my Ice tanker running his taunt aura plus his damage aura, I can run through a couple of groups and reliably hold aggro. When I'm on teams as a squishy along with a WP tanker it's common for them to not grab aggro well unless they Taunt.

Can anyone chime in to say if this is a real phenomenon? Or am I imagining it?

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Freedom: Blazing Larb, Fiery Fulcrum, Sardan Reborn, Arctic-Frenzy, Wasabi Sam, Mr Smashtastic.

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I know that this thread is focused on survivability, but the one thing that annoys me about Willpower is either that set has a taunt aura that most WP tankers dont take, or its taunt aura is somehow weaker or pulses less often or something. With my Ice tanker running his taunt aura plus his damage aura, I can run through a couple of groups and reliably hold aggro. When I'm on teams as a squishy along with a WP tanker it's common for them to not grab aggro well unless they Taunt.

Can anyone chime in to say if this is a real phenomenon? Or am I imagining it?

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You're quite correct, every other tanker aura has at least a 12 second duration taunt at MAG-4... WP has a 1.25 second taunt at MAG-3. In order to hold aggro a WP tanker MUST rely on their secondary; the aura is basically worthless as an aggro device (although it is a nice survivability bonus with +regen for every foe in range).

That is my biggest problem with the WP set... it's aggro abilities are more than an order of magnitude (ie, less than 10% as effective) weaker than ANY other tanker primary. A good tanker with an AOE heavy secondary can compensate, but it requires a lot of work. WP makes a great Scrapper set, but the crippled aggro aura makes it undesirable as a tank. It's quite durable, but _without a lot of effort_ it's incapable of truly tanking for a team.

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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

Just a minor nitpick since I see this sort of thing bandied about now and again...

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Note, there are accolades that can increase mez magnitude, and that will will work, but out of the box OG only takes out minions on it's own.

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No there aren't.

There are Mez Duration Accolades and Powers, but none of them actually increase Magnitude. For all intents and purposes, there is no such thing as +Mag... merely in-game trickery that tacks on another power effect that simulates +Mag.

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Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize

Last question about survivabiltiy. Who survives longer and does the best job at lead tanking against 52-54 Bosses in AE and Original Content?

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Last question about survivabiltiy. Who survives longer and does the best job at lead tanking against 52-54 Bosses in AE and Original Content?

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Granite armor followed closely by a soft-capped Invuln, same as most of the other answers you've gotten. Against 99% of the stuff out there a soft-cap Invuln is about equal to a Granite... you have to get to some really extreme cases where Granite's greater survivability will matter. By extreme I mean something tougher than the STF extreme.

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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

Thanks all for your input, I really enjoyed the discussion.

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