Is PLing Detrimental to the City of Heroes?
By
10100101,
Posted on: 2009-05-06 12:57 in Mission Architect
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So I ask you, fellow player: What do you think?
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This is not a matter for the Mission Architect forum.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
i dont even understand why ppl are so against PL.
i pay the same amount as you if i want to level faster i have the right.
What difference does it make how fast i level? am i removing content from other players or obstructing other players from playing by doing so? No...
Why should i not be allowed to play the game the way i want to when it's not hindering anyone....why cause PL is unethical???
it's a freaking VG FFS....my monthly fee is just as important as yours
whatever keep making it harder and harder for ppl to play the game the way they want. They have no competition right now, lets see how that changes in a few months
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So I ask you, fellow player: What do you think?
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This is not a matter for the Mission Architect forum.
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My apologies, I felt this fell under the blanket of discussion related to the Mission Architect system, but if there is a better place for me to pose this question could you kindly direct me towards it?
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i dont even understand why ppl are so against PL.
i pay the same amount as you if i want to level faster i have the right.
What difference does it make how fast i level? am i removing content from other players or obstructing other players from playing by doing so? No...
[/ QUOTE ] To be honest, the biggest reason why PLing is 'wrong' as far as this game goes is as simple as, "Because the devs said so," really. I don't know that I've ever played a MMO that encouraged PLing. Most of them at least eventually ended up nerfing the common PL spots somehow.
I don't really think that CO will be any more accepting of PLing than CoH is, but you never know I suppose.
As far as the OP goes, I don't agree with you, but I'm really tired right now and lack the ability to respond to you very coherently, my apologies. It really is an interesting look at the matter though.
MA Arcs: Yarmouth 1509 and 58812
I pretty much agree. It seems to me that the greatest reason for adding something like MA is to add flexibility to the game. Now I feel as if the Devs want MA to fall into their definitions of how the game should work/be played. I understand the reasoning behind the nerfing of the farming, but what honestly comes next? was MA designed solely for creation of more story based missions?
If MA was designed for the simple reason of adding more missions to the game, I think they are on the right track.
If however, MA was desired to give a greater degree of flexibility to the players, and to allow them to decide how they play, then they should take a hard look at any further nerfing (imho)
It really comes down to design decisions.
Oh, and sorry MA designers, but many of you will be dissapointed if you think that the farm nerf is going to make your stories more well played. The farm nerf will only attract players to the next highest exp grind, be it player or dev created.
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i dont even understand why ppl are so against PL.
am i removing content from other players
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It affects them because it affects how you play. It's a multiplayer game. What you do affects what I do affects what the guy next to me does.
Now, when you limit yourself to only farming AE missions, you remove yourself from everything else in the game. That means if I want to do something else, if I want to team for something else, I can't do it because you're farming AE's.
So now if I want to play with you--I have to farm AEs because that's all you're doing. Oh, sure, I can hold out and not farm AEs...by myself.
And yes, I can understand why you don't want to level a new character to 50. But in all those posts I've read about, "I'd never level a new guy to 50" it was with characters that they wouldn't level to 50 anyway...unless you handed it to them.
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i dont even understand why ppl are so against PL.
am i removing content from other players
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It affects them because it affects how you play. It's a multiplayer game. What you do affects what I do affects what the guy next to me does.
Now, when you limit yourself to only farming AE missions, you remove yourself from everything else in the game. That means if I want to do something else, if I want to team for something else, I can't do it because you're farming AE's.
So now if I want to play with you--I have to farm AEs because that's all you're doing. Oh, sure, I can hold out and not farm AEs...by myself.
And yes, I can understand why you don't want to level a new character to 50. But in all those posts I've read about, "I'd never level a new guy to 50" it was with characters that they wouldn't level to 50 anyway...unless you handed it to them.
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This seems like a very selfish argument. "I don't want you to farm because then you're not filling spots on MY team doing what I want!" I'm sorry, but unless you're gong to pay my monthly fee for me, I am not obligated to fill your teams. This game is not, as some people claim, "srs bsnss", and if you cannot solo the content on heroic to experience the rich story arcs which are available then it is in no way my fault; in fact, if you have such trouble building effective characters, I conjecture that I wouldn't be on your team anyway.
The common argument that "Farming takes players away from teams in other areas" is a fallacious lie! If I could not AE farm, that does not mean that I would be running your arcs with (or for) you. To counter this selfish argument, I conjecture that you doing story arcs takes fillers away from MY farms! I demand that you come fill my farms at once! Do you hear how silly that sounds? Roughly the same as your own claim.
Therefore, I would like to firmly and clearly state that I agree with the original poster of this well thought out, eloquent thesis on the matter; I would also like to issue a challenge to my more intellectual opponents on the matter to present a clearly stated, intelligent counterpoint other than "because my mommy/daddy/dev told me so" or "because you're not running my arcs for me". Please, explain to myself and others the error of our ways!
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Hi,
Your character levelling up is of interest to you, and you alone. However, the side effects of that levelling up are felt by a wider audience.
If you get up to level 50 and start playing with a character you have no experience of, you will have lower skill with that toon. This affects the people you team with.
But you only solo or play with your SG who also PL and know what to expect. Fine.
But if you have an SG who competes with other SGs to be the "best" if you use low risk methods to get high rewards, you force the people who you are competing with to either lose or use the same techniques you are using to remain competitive. This affects their gameplay experience.
But you don't compete with other SGs anyway. Fine.
All you do is use low risk high reward methods to level up characters to play, and maybe to get a bit of extra inf to buy the good loot. Which affects everyone who uses the in game economy to buy things, forcing them to do the same high reward low risk dull as ditchwater (in their opinion) content in order to compete for the enhancements they want.
The way I see it, its a balance issue. If there is a way for you to get xp, and influence, and tickets that is significantly better than any other way it reduces the overall pool of players who will play non-optimal content because it is fun. You doing the power levelling affects the entire game whether you like it or not.
By balancing risk vs reward across all content in the game, the developers seek to encourage people to play a wide variety of content. That is what the MA is about, more content and more diversity. By abusing the system to break the risk vs reward balance you end up unintentionally messing it up for another large group of people who also pay money every month.
That is why some people, get annoyed at PLers and the explosion of PLing the MA seems to have brought.
Cheers,
Conker
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This seems like a very selfish argument. "I don't want you to farm because then you're not filling spots on MY team doing what I want!"
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It's not a selfish argument because before MA, you were, in fact filling out my team. There was a middle ground where people farmed, but most people just played. And I'll guess you were in the "just play" group...which meant you teamed with me, and roleplayers, and noobs and (probably) someone's mom.
That doesn't happen now. The balance has shifted to farming, and the fence sitters (people who "just play") have gone to farming and that's about 75-80% of the population.
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My apologies, I felt this fell under the blanket of discussion related to the Mission Architect system, but if there is a better place for me to pose this question could you kindly direct me towards it?
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Certainly. I believe that the "City Life" forum would be most appropriate: it's for general discussion of the game. MA is merely the latest and most visible form that PL-ing has taken; it almost certainly will not be the last.
There is an official thread already in progress for discussion of farming; I would suggest that you start there before making another thread.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
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Hi,
Your character levelling up is of interest to you, and you alone. However, the side effects of that levelling up are felt by a wider audience.
If you get up to level 50 and start playing with a character you have no experience of, you will have lower skill with that toon. This affects the people you team with.
But you only solo or play with your SG who also PL and know what to expect. Fine.
But if you have an SG who competes with other SGs to be the "best" if you use low risk methods to get high rewards, you force the people who you are competing with to either lose or use the same techniques you are using to remain competitive. This affects their gameplay experience.
But you don't compete with other SGs anyway. Fine.
All you do is use low risk high reward methods to level up characters to play, and maybe to get a bit of extra inf to buy the good loot. Which affects everyone who uses the in game economy to buy things, forcing them to do the same high reward low risk dull as ditchwater (in their opinion) content in order to compete for the enhancements they want.
The way I see it, its a balance issue. If there is a way for you to get xp, and influence, and tickets that is significantly better than any other way it reduces the overall pool of players who will play non-optimal content because it is fun. You doing the power levelling affects the entire game whether you like it or not.
By balancing risk vs reward across all content in the game, the developers seek to encourage people to play a wide variety of content. That is what the MA is about, more content and more diversity. By abusing the system to break the risk vs reward balance you end up unintentionally messing it up for another large group of people who also pay money every month.
That is why some people, get annoyed at PLers and the explosion of PLing the MA seems to have brought.
Cheers,
Conker
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First and foremost, I would like to thank you for so clearly expressing your opinion on the matter in a non-hateful manner. You cannot fathom the depths of my gratitude for this.
Now, I feel it only appropriate to discuss your points, so allow me if I may to reply...
1. I agree that powerleveling will cause less-experienced players to reach level 50 faster, but I will argue that this is a good thing! Before you declare me a lune, hear me out...
Where are you more likely to find a patient experienced player, Level 5 or level 50? I would postulate the latter. Therefore, by giving the newer player a higher probability of being exposed to a potential mentor, you are helping him/her reach their potential as a player far more rapidly. While I realize this puts a strain on the more experienced players to deal with these "newbies", I will reiterate that this game is in no way "serious business" and accordingly players should not worry about it as such.
2. I see your argument of SG competition as legitimate. I would even go so far as to say that the removal of prestige gain from the Mission Architect might be a positive balancing step! But that is an entirely different matter from the issue of powerleveling, and thus should be discussed elsewhere.
3. Having taken a look at the blueside market earlier this evening, I was shocked to find prices more affordably than ever! Many of the uncommon and rare recipes which had previously cost me tens of millions of influence could now be acquired for a mere fraction of this cost! And to compound the matter, rare salvage had come down in price by a fair bit as well.
If anyone in the economy is hurt by Architect farming, it is the farmers themselves, who now have to provide a greater amount of goods to the market to see a sufficient gain (thus making more goods available to non-farming players at lower prices).
4. Allow me to make a metaphor, loosely based on a much older metaphor of a much older game...
The way I see the matter, there are three distinct stereotypes of players which we (for convenience) shall call Billy, Spike, and Vorthos.
The Billies of the game are those who believe that the experience from 1 to 50 is at least as important as the end-game. These are the players enjoying the story arcs for the sake of the story, the roleplayers, the social butterflies. I appreciate the playstyle you all represent, and realize that it brings a great deal of depth and richness to the game!
Next are the Spikes. These are the players who play for the sake of "killing lots of stuff!" You are likely to find the Spike wherever the biggest mobs to be killed are. This group represents those who play the game for "thrill of the kill" relaxation, newer players who have yet to lean toward another playstyle, or a myriad of other groups. If any players are being lost from arcs to farms, this is the suspect group.
Finally, you have the enigmatic Vorthos. Vorthos is the player who plays the game to discover and explore the finer points of character creation. This is the player you see posting his lovingly handcrafted, tediously tweaked build to endure the scrutiny of his peers; the character who powerlevels his character to 50 for the sake of examining its performance and how he might augment it. In short, these are your theory-crafters.
Now, what we must all realize is that regardless of the group we fall into, there are other groups to be considered. The Billies may be happy to play the game their way, while your average Vorthos may find it slow and tedious; likewise, Billy often sees Vorthos as too busy rushing to 50 to enjoy the trip. But regardless of which group you fall under, there is absolutely no reason to step on the toes of the other. If I choose to farm characters to 50 to further explore the nearly-limitless combinations to be found in the game, it is exactly that: my chioce; my choice is not directly affecting your ability to explore the game content at will. In summary, what I'm trying to say is...can't we all just get along?
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This seems like a very selfish argument. "I don't want you to farm because then you're not filling spots on MY team doing what I want!"
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It's not a selfish argument because before MA, you were, in fact filling out my team. There was a middle ground where people farmed, but most people just played. And I'll guess you were in the "just play" group...which meant you teamed with me, and roleplayers, and noobs and (probably) someone's mom.
That doesn't happen now. The balance has shifted to farming, and the fence sitters (people who "just play") have gone to farming and that's about 75-80% of the population.
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Quite the opposite! Before Architect farming was presented as a choice to me, I was one of the many hardworking individuals providing free Battle Maiden farms to players in need. And once again, I reiterate that this was entirely my choice.
Also, you say that the balance has shifted to "MA Farming" specifically; however, I believe another issue which you overlook is that many of the lore-mongers of the game have started an endless trek through some of the more story-rich arcs to be found inside MA. Indeed, I see many players broadcasting "MA Team (NOT FARM)" in atlas park these days.
I implore you see my above "stereotypes" post on the matter.
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I was one of the many hardworking individuals providing free Battle Maiden farms to players in need.
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And that was you and how many people? How often? Once a week? Twice? Once a day?
You see, there's a difference. Once a week or twice a week is an "event"; every day is a play style.
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I was one of the many hardworking individuals providing free Battle Maiden farms to players in need.
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And that was you and how many people? How often? Once a week? Twice? Once a day?
You see, there's a difference. Once a week or twice a week is an "event"; every day is a play style.
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I agree. And as stated, my playstyle was to provide free farms for newbies, because this was how I enjoyed the game! The only difference now is the particular farm.
Regardless of how you spin your opinion, I find little else beyond opinion in your statements. While you may have found a decline in the quantity or quality of your recent teammates, this can be attributed to a number of reasons (as I stated above), and thus cannot be blamed solely on farming. Are we also to ban story missions in the Architect because they reduce the amount of players for "traditional" arcs?
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Regardless of how you spin your opinion
Are we also to ban story missions in the Architect because they reduce the amount of players for "traditional" arcs?
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Oh I love the MA. I think it's a great tool for whatever--story, farms, personal arcs, SG arcs, or just goofing around.
However, you have to be blind to not see that this affects the rest of the game. And, I think, out of all the choices, farming should be done away with--it'll make everything else better.
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Regardless of how you spin your opinion
Are we also to ban story missions in the Architect because they reduce the amount of players for "traditional" arcs?
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Oh I love the MA. I think it's a great tool for whatever--story, farms, personal arcs, SG arcs, or just goofing around.
However, you have to be blind to not see that this affects the rest of the game. And, I think, out of all the choices, farming should be done away with--it'll make everything else better.
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Again I ask...why can't we all just get along? Why can't I farm in peace, while you run your arcs in peace? There is no answer to be given that cannot be seen as selfish by the players demanding more fillers for their arcs. Honestly, at least farmers have the good manners to politely request fillers rather than ask that your playstyle be banned so that you'll fill.
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Again I ask...why
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Well it's before and after. What were players doing before, and what are they doing after? You and I can argue about it, but the devs have the hard numbers. And I think they see it's warped.
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Again I ask...why
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Well it's before and after. What were players doing before, and what are they doing after? You and I can argue about it, but the devs have the hard numbers. And I think they see it's warped.
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If you're going to take excerpts from a post, be sure to take the entire excerpt so as not to use it out of context (as I'm sure you didn't mean to in this case). I point out that, as no numbers have been presented (or even spoken of by the devs), your statement is once again opinion (although cleverly stated to appear as fact).
Now please, if you feel the need to quote and reply to my posts, don't take a small piece, use it out of context, and just reply to that. It's quite tedious.
EDIT: And as a second point...why is it bad that players are using the new feature? Isn't the idea of adding a new feature to the game that it will be used? When Willpower and Dual Blades were added to the game, the disproportionate number of DB/WP scrappers seen running about wasn't taken as a sign that these sets must be overpowered, and should be banned so that players would go back to using "traditional" powersets. You cannot resists change for the sake of it.
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If you're going to take excerpts from a post
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I take the part I'm replying to. I don't want to debate 20 things with you, ok? That goes on forever. I argue one thing.
Otherwise you get, "Well what about...?" and "Doesn't your being wrong about X make you wrong about Y?" And really silly crap.
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Again I ask...why can't we all just get along? Why can't I farm in peace, while you run your arcs in peace? There is no answer to be given that cannot be seen as selfish by the players demanding more fillers for their arcs. Honestly, at least farmers have the good manners to politely request fillers rather than ask that your playstyle be banned so that you'll fill.
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Try this one on for size: developers nerf farming because people vote with their dollars, and if farming is too easy then a majority of people who do it will leave soon after mastering it. Therefore, developers need to make farming only slightly more effective (and yet less story-oriented) than doing regular content, in order to keep individuals playing the game longer.
As an extreme example, this is the same reason why there's no "I WIN" button in the game that auto-levels you to lvl 50, automatically granting you every possible badge available, and making you invunerable to every possible attack and giving you infinite influence. if there was (or something like that), then most people would walk into the game, hit it, play for a few hours, and then cancel their subscriptions.
In contrast, there IS the opposite extreme, where you can choose to not level at all and instead go for nothing but story. However, even there you still have to play out the content, thereby 'forcing' the pure story-oriented player to draw out their time, thereby extending their accounts.
That being said, there are some people who play this game ONLY for figuring out the most effective way to level. And there are others who are here ONLY for the story elements. Most folks are somewhere in between - wanting to see reasonable advancement through moderately interesting story content. So its the developer's job to find the point of diminishing returns: that point on the curve whereby they keep the game JUUUUSSSTTT interesting enough to keep people from quitting.
In other words: I want to nerf your playstyle because the average user will find your playstyle (pure xp) attractive in the short-term, but will get bored of it more quickly and leave, then they will of my playstyle (story+xp). This, in turn, affects the overall long-term popularity of the game.
If you can guarentee me that the farming, as it stands now, is creating sustainable player base? then I will support you and your position wholeheartadly. Pesonally though, I'm going to rely on human nature, and assume that most people will find that anything gotten for free will soon be discarded as worthless.
Now, are there people who, in the face of not being able to farm their way, will quit and thus reduce the health of the game by their absence? Yes. But it's my claim that in terms of person-months, enough accounts will be extended to make up for the loss of however many months those who left prematurely would have paid.
For example - you're still here, which means the change wasn't enough to get you to quit. Which means that, at least with you as a target, the developers are right: they're reduced your ability to play, but as a consequence you're likely to play longer because of it. Or at leat that's what they're betting on.
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most people will find that anything gotten for free will soon be discarded as worthless.
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This is the absolute truth. It's human nature. It's how things work.
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Again I ask...why can't we all just get along? Why can't I farm in peace, while you run your arcs in peace? There is no answer to be given that cannot be seen as selfish by the players demanding more fillers for their arcs. Honestly, at least farmers have the good manners to politely request fillers rather than ask that your playstyle be banned so that you'll fill.
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Try this one on for size: developers nerf farming because people vote with their dollars, and if farming is too easy then a majority of people who do it will leave soon after mastering it. Therefore, developers need to make farming only slightly more effective (and yet less story-oriented) than doing regular content, in order to keep individuals playing the game longer.
As an extreme example, this is the same reason why there's no "I WIN" button in the game that auto-levels you to lvl 50, automatically granting you every possible badge available, and making you invunerable to every possible attack and giving you infinite influence. if there was (or something like that), then most people would walk into the game, hit it, play for a few hours, and then cancel their subscriptions.
In contrast, there IS the opposite extreme, where you can choose to not level at all and instead go for nothing but story. However, even there you still have to play out the content, thereby 'forcing' the pure story-oriented player to draw out their time, thereby extending their accounts.
That being said, there are some people who play this game ONLY for figuring out the most effective way to level. And there are others who are here ONLY for the story elements. Most folks are somewhere in between - wanting to see reasonable advancement through moderately interesting story content. So its the developer's job to find the point of diminishing returns: that point on the curve whereby they keep the game JUUUUSSSTTT interesting enough to keep people from quitting.
In other words: I want to nerf your playstyle because the average user will find your playstyle (pure xp) attractive in the short-term, but will get bored of it more quickly and leave, then they will of my playstyle (story+xp). This, in turn, affects the overall long-term popularity of the game.
If you can guarentee me that the farming, as it stands now, is creating sustainable player base? then I will support you and your position wholeheartadly. Pesonally though, I'm going to rely on human nature, and assume that most people will find that anything gotten for free will soon be discarded as worthless.
Now, are there people who, in the face of not being able to farm their way, will quit and thus reduce the health of the game by their absence? Yes. But it's my claim that in terms of person-months, enough accounts will be extended to make up for the loss of however many months those who left prematurely would have paid.
For example - you're still here, which means the change wasn't enough to get you to quit. Which means that, at least with you as a target, the developers are right: they're reduced your ability to play, but as a consequence you're likely to play longer because of it. Or at leat that's what they're betting on.
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1. Make note that, as I have stated previously, I am not arguing against the recent "nerfs". As far as I am concerned, they are well within the realm of balance. I'm not arguing against a slight rebalancing of farming, but against the elitist viewpoint of "BAN ALL FARMING!"
2. Your extreme example is just that: extreme. Nonetheless, I agree with you that "free" stuff just isn't as valuable in the opinion of the holder as "earned" stuff. That being said, farming is not free stuff. I am still earning my experience, influence and tickets in a way consistent with the mechanics of the game. If I choose to do so in a slightly different (and more rewarding, in my own opinion) manner than you, I fail to see the problem.
3. You make the point that the "average player" will A. be more attracted to "my" playstyle than "yours" and B: become burnt out shortly thereafter leaving the game.
3A. If the player is more attracted to farming than experiencing the game "as it was meant to be experienced" (according to certain people), then (s)he was unlikely to show a great deal of interest in the storytelling depth of the game to begin with.
And on an unrelated note, let's not dress the game up as more than it is. As much "story" as the game has, it's still just a few paragraphs before you trudge to the same door to kill the same mobs on the same maps. I postulate that "your" playstyle also constitutes farming, just in a more text-filled manner.
3B. If a player who reaches level 50 gets burnt out very shortly thereafter, that is not the fault of the player nor of the farming. It is the fault of a lack of endgame content. Now mind you, this problem has been dealt a significant blow with the advent of custom arcs, but there is still a lack of what many players assume to be "mandatory" content such as raiding. While City of X is a great game and a perfect fit for some people, it's certainly not a catch-all.
On a contradictory note, I theorize that I can show you as many former players who unsubscribed due to the "tedium" of leveling early on as you can show me due to "burnt out 50s".
4. While guarantees would indeed be nice, nothing can be guaranteed in any direction. Such is the consequence of life's spontaneity. What I can say, however, is that I see no direct harm to your playstyle (and the life of the game in general) due to farming. As I have stated previously, farming helps the economy, helps new players reach experienced mentors faster, and gives players access to higher-level content they otherwise might not have had. Also, while you state that after acquiring a "farmed" 50 players will be less interested in the game, I feel that the opposite is true. After I acquired my first 50, my immediate reaction was "That was fun! Now I can start considering what kind of character I want to try next."
5. Yes, I'm still here, because as stated I feel that the "nerfs" were primarily a balance that needed to be made. However, if the heavy-handed threats made by Positron are carried out (direct banning of farming, retroactive punishment, etc.), I assure you that you'll find no further word from me.
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This seems like a very selfish argument. "I don't want you to farm because then you're not filling spots on MY team doing what I want!"
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It's not a selfish argument because before MA, you were, in fact filling out my team. There was a middle ground where people farmed, but most people just played. And I'll guess you were in the "just play" group...which meant you teamed with me, and roleplayers, and noobs and (probably) someone's mom.
That doesn't happen now. The balance has shifted to farming, and the fence sitters (people who "just play") have gone to farming and that's about 75-80% of the population.
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This overlooks the novelty of MA and the big splash it made in the forums and in the industry as a whole. It's been out, what? three weeks? a month? I've heard more than a few people say essentially that they want to get max rewards before the devs do "fix" MA, so there's that. But mostly, people are doing it because it's new. And In that sense, it's no different than any event. It's not easy to find mish teams during the Halloween or Winter events, either.
I think that a lot of the farms would have faded away due to players who aren't hard-core farmers turning back to more regular content. I know that a lot of people have given up on finding decent story arcs in MA because of the horrible search options currently available (granted, a zillion farms don't help that sitch; but giving them a "legal farm" tag would eliminate that. A LOT of people farm, and a LOT of people don't. Having farms there is not an immediate swan song for story content. That's why this thread is so thought-provoking. If you don't farm, will you be forced to if there are MA farms or when people go back to the PI farms? Nope. And you're not likely to suddenly turn into a farmer, either. Likewise, the farmers aren't going to join your team if all farming is nerfed, banned, etc. They'll find new ways to play the game they want, or they will go to a game that hasn't made so much effort to force people to team in story arcs/regular content.
As an aside: "Solo" is not a four-letter word (er, I guess it is, and in more senses than one), but a lot of people like to solo and prefer it to teaming. It's still possible to do this in CoX and MA, but just as farmers would leave the game, so too would soloers. The devs know this, that's why teaming is encouraged but not required for most aspects of the game (and of course depending on your AT and other factors).
A lot of people don't like to team as a rule, and nothing the devs can do will force them to do it. I personally love to solo and do so at least 75% of the time I play. People who solo do so for any number of reasons. And sure, we'll hop on TF's for badges/merits/drops now and then, but that will still happen even if MA is farm-infested because once the thrill of the tickets and badging has worn off, people will want to earn merits and regular rewards again (and they can't in MA except on DC arcs).
I ran the Midnighter Arc with my sg the other day, and I can't tell you what a massive relief it was. We all discussed how it felt like home as we made all the usual mutterings about Lady Jane and griped about the CoT. It's all done with fondness and comfort in content you've run a hundred times. MA is still new, let people enjoy it, burn out on it, get their badges . . . they'll come back, and your teams will be just a full as they are post-Halloween event.
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Something has been bothering me since this mornings patch and subsequent post by Positron.
The patching of a feature (or exploit, depending on whom you question) that allows for quick leveling
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But it doesn't "allow for quick leveling." Quick leveling is getting to 50 in 250 hours. AE farming completely breaks leveling up as an idea....replaces it with "I have another 50 in an afternoon." It's so far from any reasonable definition of "quick" leveling that it's like calling World War II a disagreement.
Since you started the thread with that spin, it's pretty clear what your take on it is.
The Devs are gonna do what they feel is best, regardless of what we say here. If anyone is actually listening, of course replacing the game with story-free instant 50s is bad for the game; that's self-evident.
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Something has been bothering me since this mornings patch and subsequent post by Positron.
The patching of a feature (or exploit, depending on whom you question) that allows for quick leveling implies very heavily that those related to the creation and publishing of the game wholeheartedly believe that such behavior is detrimental to their game. I believe that this is directly related to a fear of dropping sales (this is an assumption, it could simply be that they want you to see the content theyve worked on or something else I am unable to imagine), but Im not thoroughly convinced that power leveling is necessarily bad for the sales of a Massively Multiplayer Role-playing game such as this. It is my position that allowing players access to ways by which they may rapidly increase their characters level is in no way, shape or form detrimental to the City of Heroes.
I would like to offer, if I may, an anecdote of my experience with this game. I have played this game on three, separate occasions with varying lengths of both time spent subscribed and hiatus in-between. I have never had a character above 32 until this most recent subscription. This is because, to me, the game very quickly devolves into a massive grind towards milestones in your archetype that are too slow to be reached with far too few supplementary things to keep me interested as I move towards them. Throughout my time in this game I have only ever taken note of three substantial content updates: the Invention Origin system, the Mission Architect system and the various power sets that have been added. In retrospect, I suppose, this game has just never had enough content to keep a power gamer like me interested for very long.
This got me thinking. Clearly the sorts of things that lead me to invest so much time and money into the World of Warcraft are not the main draw of City of Heroes. In fact, I have found that many people say that the lack of those things (specifically gear) is what draws them to this game. And then it occurred to me, the draw that this game possesses is so much richer, more diverse and (arguably) intellectual than those things: Storytelling. This games player base thrives on vast, far-reaching stories; player-to-player interaction and heavily encouraged player creativity.
I dont believe that power leveling in the mission architect system was negative, instead I see it as an unexpected (or rather, expected but misunderstood) effect that was entirely in keeping with the theme. The mission architect system gave me the ability to engage in both content created by the developers and fellow players; power leveling gave me the ability to engage them on my own terms. That is why I believe that power leveling should not only be reinstated, but also explored. I believe you, the developer, have a chance here to create something truly unique and beautiful. An MMO not built around petty progression towards a players next metaphorical food pellet, but built around human creativity. A game designed to be open to ideas and change, a game where we decide our own goals and rewards, a game where there is open discussion between developer and player.
I cant help but know that this message will fall upon deaf ears. I do not post this in the hopes that the developers will respond to it or even take note of it; rather I post it for my own edification. I am, quite honestly, interested in what my fellow players have to say about both the ideas I have presented here and their subject matter (i.e. whether or not power leveling is detrimental to this game).
So I ask you, fellow player: What do you think?