For Cerulean_Shadow and others who feel similarly:
I'll point out that in the real world of writing, tons of excellent, serious fiction gets passed over in favor of erotica. Lots and lots of erotica. And supermarket romances.
Low-brow appeal to the masses will always get more attention.
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Amusingly, people are increasingly trying to dress up their Meow farms in story trappings. I wonder if anyone reads a word of it.
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Of course they don't. The entire point of dressing up your meowfarm in a story is to try to avoid the axe that everyone... EVERYONE... knows is coming by futilely pointing to your own meowfarm and saying "See? Mine has a story! Means its not just a farm!"
Of course, this is fooling no one... 
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Anyone else get the impression that she is trying to convince herself with this? Desperately trying to make herself *believe*?
Sounds desperate. My commiseration.
For Great Justice!
I would like to point out that a lot of erotica is better than a lot of 'excellent, serious fiction.' and claiming that it is low-brow mass appeal may be a bit of a misnomer, if not outright biased.
examples:
Kushiel's series by Jacqueline Carey
The Taming of sleeping beauty by Anne Rice
Firefly by Piers Anthony (Not the best example, I am afraid)
The Anita Blake Series and the Meredith Gentry Series by Laurell k. Hamilton
About half of all modern supernatural and vampire writers.
Be careful of what you are calling low-brow.
for example, 'Twilight' was made into a movie... now THAT was a perfect example of mainstream garbage, erotica not included.
Is there a lower brow then genitalia?
Erotica is low brow, if Shakespeare had written a scene involving a pizza guy, a pool man and all of King Lear's daughters in King Lear, it probably would not be considered quite as good as it is. But low brow isn't a bad thing, I've read a lot of high brow stuff, it used to be all I read until I found comic books, film noir, detective stories and all that fantastic low brow stuff that isn't even aiming for your eye brow, but your gut. One of my arc's, it's name is a reference to a Coleridge poem, but it's actually referencing a reference, and a distillation of that portion of the poem from what would be considered a low-brow Science Fiction movie.
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For Cerulean_Shadow and others who feel similarly:
I'll point out that in the real world of writing, tons of excellent, serious fiction gets passed over in favor of erotica. Lots and lots of erotica. And supermarket romances.
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This is very true, and probably the reason that, despite having a very successful non-fiction writing career, I have yet to be able to sell any of my novels. 
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
I wouldn't term Carey and Hamilton erotica, although they certainly include elements of it in their stories. I'd classify them both as mainstream fiction. I haven't read the others, so can't comment, but I was referring specifically to fiction that was shelved in the Erotica section.
My point remains, though: Don't expect the masses to love your serious work.
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My point remains, though: Don't expect the masses to love your serious work.
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LOL so true. Everyone seems to forget that Shakespeare's globe had bear baiting and [censored] [Male Chicken] fighting.
I wouldn't call any of my arcs high-brow - Attack of the Monsters of Legend (arc # 82060) is about Frankenstein, Dracula, and the Wolfman, for crying out loud. But there is a narrative there, a (hopefully entertaining) story for those willing to read it.
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!
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Is there a lower brow then genitalia?
Erotica is low brow, if Shakespeare had written a scene involving a pizza guy, a pool man and all of King Lear's daughters in King Lear, it probably would not be considered quite as good as it is. But low brow isn't a bad thing, I've read a lot of high brow stuff, it used to be all I read until I found comic books, film noir, detective stories and all that fantastic low brow stuff that isn't even aiming for your eye brow, but your gut. One of my arc's, it's name is a reference to a Coleridge poem, but it's actually referencing a reference, and a distillation of that portion of the poem from what would be considered a low-brow Science Fiction movie.
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This is funny -- someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Shakespeare was rather successful because he was "low brow" and spoke the common man's language.
Also, I take exception to your assertion that comic books are universally "low brow".
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I wouldn't term Carey and Hamilton erotica, although they certainly include elements of it in their stories. I'd classify them both as mainstream fiction. I haven't read the others, so can't comment, but I was referring specifically to fiction that was shelved in the Erotica section.
My point remains, though: Don't expect the masses to love your serious work.
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I would term everything Hamilton wrote after Obsidian Butterfly as erotica. And the quality went downhill along with the subject matter.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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I wouldn't term Carey and Hamilton erotica, although they certainly include elements of it in their stories. I'd classify them both as mainstream fiction. I haven't read the others, so can't comment, but I was referring specifically to fiction that was shelved in the Erotica section.
My point remains, though: Don't expect the masses to love your serious work.
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I would term everything Hamilton wrote after Obsidian Butterfly as erotica. And the quality went downhill along with the subject matter.
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I agree. The worst was that farce of a book about whatsisname... Anita's Selkie boyfriend.
I have never before felt cheated when I bought a book, but that book alone made me feel utterly cheated. like she started a story, threw in some porn, and then ended it with a deus ex machina.
Laurell should have been slapped for that garbage. Her editor should have given it back to her and told her to do it over again, and this time add a story.
I honestly wanted my money back. I never even felt that way about 'battlefield earth' and that was a horrible movie.
Shakespeare was that rare talent who could mix and match high-brow and low-brow as needed to entertain many different sorts of audiences simultaneously.
It's a bit more difficult to do that under the limitations of the Mission Architect, though I actually think it might be an interesting exercise to imagine howThe Bard might have told some of his tales under those limitations.
In fact, that gives me some ideas for mission arcs...
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For Cerulean_Shadow and others who feel similarly:
I'll point out that in the real world of writing, tons of excellent, serious fiction gets passed over in favor of erotica. Lots and lots of erotica. And supermarket romances.
Low-brow appeal to the masses will always get more attention.
[/ QUOTE ]
One problem with this analogy, the farming missions are designed to be played over and over again, non-stop. Sort of like a toddler watching Barney Videos.
I don't think it get any more "low-brow" than that.
If Brevity is the Soul of Wit, Why are You Reading This?
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Shakespeare was that rare talent who could mix and match high-brow and low-brow as needed to entertain many different sorts of audiences simultaneously.
It's a bit more difficult to do that under the limitations of the Mission Architect, though I actually think it might be an interesting exercise to imagine howThe Bard might have told some of his tales under those limitations.
In fact, that gives me some ideas for mission arcs...
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play an arc called 'Bad Poetry' by a friend of mine
I was amazed that she could write such an amusing storyline... with a ton of original poetry, to boot!
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Is there a lower brow then genitalia?
Erotica is low brow, if Shakespeare had written a scene involving a pizza guy, a pool man and all of King Lear's daughters in King Lear, it probably would not be considered quite as good as it is. But low brow isn't a bad thing, I've read a lot of high brow stuff, it used to be all I read until I found comic books, film noir, detective stories and all that fantastic low brow stuff that isn't even aiming for your eye brow, but your gut. One of my arc's, it's name is a reference to a Coleridge poem, but it's actually referencing a reference, and a distillation of that portion of the poem from what would be considered a low-brow Science Fiction movie.
[/ QUOTE ]
This is funny -- someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that Shakespeare was rather successful because he was "low brow" and spoke the common man's language.
Also, I take exception to your assertion that comic books are universally "low brow".
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I take critical error to your exception and I'm not even Vista...
You're correct, but I just liked the idea of porno music playing while King Lear sits there, horrified, looking exactly like Patrick Stewart.
Sequential art is a exactly that, an art form, and art has been created within the medium, but it is low-brow art. Eisner created art, but low-brow art, Neil Gaiman, not a fan, but he could be considered to have created art, but it was low brow. The term lowbrow, to me, at least, doesn't refer to "stupid" but rather to more visceral works and limited in appeal to small sections of society, as opposed to what is called high brow, which the term denotes should be loved by everyone, and if you don't, you can't understand it.
Sequential art is lowbrow art, but it is still art.
It has just come to my attention that any discussion that touches on farming is FORBIDDEN in this forum. Therefor, this thread may also by extension be FORBIDDEN.
Unfortunately, because of all the hush hush secrecy surrounding those who must not be named, I am not permitted to tell you why, because it is a technical violation of the Message Forum Rules and Guidelines to openly discuss moderator action on the boards - therefor I shan't.
What I *can* do is link to an informative post that should clear things up:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....ue#Post13422099
Sorry to be all cloak and dagger, but since certain subjects are FORBIDDEN this roundabout manner is the clearest way I have to let you guys know that you may be wandering into FORBIDDEN territory.
Please, do not reply to this post, as that may also get too close to FORBIDDEN territory if you openly discuss moderator action, which as I have just found out, is itself a technical violation of the Message Forum Rules and Guidelines.
Please respect the rules and avoid the FORBIDDEN topics and discussions. And for all you "free speech" advocates, please keep in mind that while that is all well and good, the only place you can validly invoke that is in your own home or in public. This is not a public place. This is a private forum, and the owners of the forum are not required at all to permit any kind of discussion that displeases them. And please do not bring up the fact that you are a paying customer, or that thousands of people use these forums, or even that as the official forums there is an obligation to free and open exchange. None of these things are true. The owners of these forums have the final say on what is permitted, and the ordinary poster has no rights at all.
You would be best to accept that fundamental truth, and simply just engage in these forums in ways in which the forum owners (and by extension, those they employ) approve of.
Do what you are told, and obey the folks in charge here, and constrain your actions and speech (and posts) in the manner desired by them, and you will be fine. Above all, avoid what is FORBIDDEN.
Make sense?
For Great Justice!
Cross posting is not pretty.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat....ue#Post13422914
For Great Justice!
I gotta hope after you get an enforced break from the boards after this spam-fest of yours.
@Doctor Gemini
Arc #271637 - Welcome to M.A.G.I. - An alternative first story arc for magic origin heroes. At Hero Registration you heard the jokes about Azuria always losing things. When she loses the entire M.A.G.I. vault, you are chosen to find it.
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I gotta hope after you get an enforced break from the boards after this spam-fest of yours.
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That's fairly unkind after I try to help *everyone.*
*sigh*
For Great Justice!
OK if you say so mate.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Hey guys and gals. Could you help me by answering this question for a project I'm working on?
Maybe a lot of people already answered this question but, when you're looking for or creating a story arc would you rather go for farming missions that has no story and give good XP or do you go for an Arc that has a good entertaining story and average XP? Why?
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Story, first, foremost, and always.
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Make sense?
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Mod08 does, yes. You, not so much.
Avatar: "Cheeky Jack O Lantern" by dimarie
I've created what I feel to be a great story, (The Attack of the Monsters of Legend, arc # 82060) and I've gotten a lot of compliments on the four-mission arc, but it's still the farming missions that win out and get the ratings. For someone who enjoys presenting a good, solid story, it is kind of discouraging.
My Mission Architect arcs:
Attack of the Toymenator - Arc # 207874
Attack of the Monsters of Legend - Arc # 82060
Visit Cerulean Shadow's Myspace page!