Ability to camp to another character
By
Arenaz,
Posted on: 2009-04-02 08:20 in Suggestions and Ideas
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And since the OP said it would keep the 30 second timer no exploit is available.
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He only mentioned that after he realized that his original NO TIMEOUT EQ2 idea wasn't going to get any traction here. 
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Actually EQ2 also has a logout countdown of 20 seconds even when doing /camp so it can't be used as a get out of jail free card there either. 
I added it to the second post as I noticed I had forgotten to mention that detail.
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Exactly. Good luck with this...
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Lets walk through someone trying to exploit this command.
You get your team by the mission entrance. You buff them. You wait 30 seconds and the game reloads the zone. You get invited to the team. The team gets halfway through the second or third spawn and needs rebuffing. At this point you would have to recamp wait for timeout and reload, get a new team invite, enter the mission and rebuff then camp/load/reinvite/load mission again.
This could be streamlined for TFs since you wouldn't need to reinvite on the swap back to your play alt, but everyone would have to leave the mission to get buffed since your exploit buffer can't enter the team mission or be invited after the TF forms.
Did I miss anything?
[/ QUOTE ] Doesn't sound like you missed anything. If somebody wants to really use a pain in the [censored] "exploit" like that, then I say let them. That actually seems like it would slow down your team more than help them.
Any other "exploits" people are worried about?
To the OP: /signed, it would make my in game life a little bit easier.
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Lets walk through someone trying to exploit this command.
You get your team by the mission entrance. You buff them. You wait 30 seconds and the game reloads the zone. You get invited to the team. The team gets halfway through the second or third spawn and needs rebuffing. At this point you would have to recamp wait for timeout and reload, get a new team invite, enter the mission and rebuff then camp/load/reinvite/load mission again.
This could be streamlined for TFs since you wouldn't need to reinvite on the swap back to your play alt, but everyone would have to leave the mission to get buffed since your exploit buffer can't enter the team mission or be invited after the TF forms.
Did I miss anything?
[/ QUOTE ] Doesn't sound like you missed anything. If somebody wants to really use a pain in the [censored] "exploit" like that, then I say let them. That actually seems like it would slow down your team more than help them.
Any other "exploits" people are worried about?
To the OP: /signed, it would make my in game life a little bit easier.
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I remember "/signing" suggestions like this YEARS ago too.
Still hasn't happened has it?
Why do I always have to end my arguments by pointing out things like this to people who routinely suggest the same things over and over and over again regardless if the suggestion is any good or not? 
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Lets walk through someone trying to exploit this command.
You get your team by the mission entrance. You buff them. You wait 30 seconds and the game reloads the zone. You get invited to the team. The team gets halfway through the second or third spawn and needs rebuffing. At this point you would have to recamp wait for timeout and reload, get a new team invite, enter the mission and rebuff then camp/load/reinvite/load mission again.
This could be streamlined for TFs since you wouldn't need to reinvite on the swap back to your play alt, but everyone would have to leave the mission to get buffed since your exploit buffer can't enter the team mission or be invited after the TF forms.
Did I miss anything?
[/ QUOTE ] Doesn't sound like you missed anything. If somebody wants to really use a pain in the [censored] "exploit" like that, then I say let them. That actually seems like it would slow down your team more than help them.
Any other "exploits" people are worried about?
To the OP: /signed, it would make my in game life a little bit easier.
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I remember "/signing" suggestions like this YEARS ago too.
Still hasn't happened has it?
Why do I always have to end my arguments by pointing out things like this to people who routinely suggest the same things over and over and over again regardless if the suggestion is any good or not?
[/ QUOTE ] Seems to me your entire argument against it is because of exploits. But yet nobody has come up with a decent example of an exploit. So I don't understand how your argument makes any sense.
Also, the fact the it hasn't happened isn't relevant.
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Lets walk through someone trying to exploit this command.
You get your team by the mission entrance. You buff them. You wait 30 seconds and the game reloads the zone. You get invited to the team. The team gets halfway through the second or third spawn and needs rebuffing. At this point you would have to recamp wait for timeout and reload, get a new team invite, enter the mission and rebuff then camp/load/reinvite/load mission again.
This could be streamlined for TFs since you wouldn't need to reinvite on the swap back to your play alt, but everyone would have to leave the mission to get buffed since your exploit buffer can't enter the team mission or be invited after the TF forms.
Did I miss anything?
[/ QUOTE ] Doesn't sound like you missed anything. If somebody wants to really use a pain in the [censored] "exploit" like that, then I say let them. That actually seems like it would slow down your team more than help them.
Any other "exploits" people are worried about?
To the OP: /signed, it would make my in game life a little bit easier.
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I remember "/signing" suggestions like this YEARS ago too.
Still hasn't happened has it?
Why do I always have to end my arguments by pointing out things like this to people who routinely suggest the same things over and over and over again regardless if the suggestion is any good or not?
[/ QUOTE ] Seems to me your entire argument against it is because of exploits. But yet nobody has come up with a decent example of an exploit. So I don't understand how your argument makes any sense.
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My argument "against" it is that the Devs of this game have gone out of their way to impose not only a 30 second timer but a cumbersome login procedure to switch characters (presumably as an anti-exploit measure). I don't like it any more than anyone else but that's what we have.
It makes no reasonable sense that after adding all those impediments to "quick turnaround" characters switches that they would suddenly allow a shortcut /camp command. If they were going to bother to override their own system they might as well remove the 30 second timer first. *shrugs*
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What exploit could it possibly prevent?
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What exploit could it possibly prevent?
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Ask the Devs.
They were apparently worried enough about -something- to sock us with an arbitrary 30 second timeout.
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I think Lothic's issue is she presumes too much.
Since we've stepped away form fact and are going on hunches my view is that the "exit to login screen" is to prevent account shenanigans while your on the pot. I vaguely remember something being said about this near launch time but I have no record of it so I file it under personal belief and not documented fact.
The logout timer is to prevent rapid escape, I base this belief on the fact any powers that could give the same instant out are also given a cast time that's interruptible.
If the reason was so folks couldn't switch quickly I could live with a 60 second logout before a direct switch. Sure it wouldn't be much faster but I could step away for a second while it processed and besides I am lazy.
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I think Lothic's issue is she presumes too much.
Since we've stepped away form fact and are going on hunches my view is that the "exit to login screen" is to prevent account shenanigans while your on the pot. I vaguely remember something being said about this near launch time but I have no record of it so I file it under personal belief and not documented fact.
The logout timer is to prevent rapid escape, I base this belief on the fact any powers that could give the same instant out are also given a cast time that's interruptible.
[/ QUOTE ] Your ideas seem much more reasonable.
edited for clarity
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I think Lothic's issue is she presumes too much.
Since we've stepped away form fact and are going on hunches my view is that the "exit to login screen" is to prevent account shenanigans while your on the pot. I vaguely remember something being said about this near launch time but I have no record of it so I file it under personal belief and not documented fact.
The logout timer is to prevent rapid escape, I base this belief on the fact any powers that could give the same instant out are also given a cast time that's interruptible.
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I'm sorry I'm able to look outside the box at the bigger issues.
If you'd like to make that a personal attack in the form of "I presume to much" then guilty as charged.
The only pertinent FACT here is that the Devs have imposed a 30 second timer and a certain procedure we have to follow to in order to switch to another character. Absolutely regardless of WHY the system is as it is people have be WHINING for YEARS to get -something- like the /camp command as an alternative to that and it hasn't happened yet.
If I had to guess, and mind you this is ONLY a guess, I figure the Devs like the system AS IT IS for whatever reason that may be.
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Your ideas seem much more reasonable.
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Even when they fly in the face of the status quo of the system we have?
Let's just say "wishful hoping" that things like this will change does not seem very reasonable to me.
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Well you don't have to play with our glitter ponies and rainbow machines if you don't want to.
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What exploit could it possibly prevent?
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I always thought the reason for the 30 second timer was so you couldn't go, "Oh no, Professor Pummelator is about to smash me to death!" >instantly logout< "Whew!"
(Sometimes, I wish there could be a Dev thumbs up button for quality posts, because you pretty much nailed it.) -- Ghost Falcon
You guys want to know why they don't have a log out to character screen? I bet I got the answer for ya.
Ready?
You sure you're ready?
Ok here it is......../e drumroll.......
We don't need it.
Thats it. It will save what, 10 seconds? Just log out and type your password. Why is that so hard on people?
I can understand lazy. I'm pretty lazy myself, but I don't see typing in a password as all that much work.
It's not just typing I have to click like 3 or 4 times.
<qr>
I'm going to have to say I wouldn't go for it, purely for security.
Sure, it's everything "on the same server." OK, picture this:
You have your favourite characters, three 50s, IOd out to the gills. You're playing along, someone comes in (say your SO, kid sibling, GF/BF, someone) you get in an argument with them. They leave, you go away annoyed (say, to the store, or to do some project) but don't log out. Say, you hit "Quit," and don't pay attention that it didn't pick up your "Exit to login screen" before you get up.
They're PO'd at you and the game. They see the game still logged in.
/camp character2
Respec
Leave a billion worth of IOs in the bucket. Respec into Flurry, Jump Kick, and a bunch of less powerful powers.
/camp character 3
... same
/character 4
same
With 12 characters on the server, I *bet* I could ruin someone's entire stable of characters on one server within 20 minutes and still have time to log back to the first character, dump all the INF on a lucky lowbie and leave them standing around.
Now?
At worst, if you don't log out, they can screw up one. To do another, they have to log out and know your passwords. Yes, one still sucks. 12 would *really* suck. Someone with 36 characters? Ow.
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(wikked)
You guys want to know why they don't have a log out to character screen?
...
We don't need it.
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Exactly! I think it'd be nice to instantly switch between characters, but I don't think the suggestion is needed.
There are "exploit" reasons why the switch couldn't be instantaneous, and if you need to maintain the 30 second logout, this becomes a minor QoL improvement that would likely require significant dev resources.
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(MB)I'm going to have to say I wouldn't go for it, purely for security.
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I doubt security concerns would play any role in whether or not this suggestion is implemented.
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I'm going to have to say I wouldn't go for it, purely for security.
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Bill, I normally agree with you but I have to say that that's a super-contrived example. Possible? Sure. Likely? I can't speak to other players, but for me it just couldn't happen.
Here's a safe way this could work: you keep the default logout behavior for new accounts. That keeps new users safe. Add an option that allows logout (which would keep its 30 second timer) to go to the character selection screen. To turn that option on, you'd have to enter your password. That keeps folks who are temporarily accessing your character from defeating the security.
I have a very long password. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a very short, easier to type password. So for me, this would be a nifty QoL enhancement, and it could be done in such a way that it doesn't enable exploits and doesn't compromise security for folks who find themselves in the same home as a sociopath. 
As with most QoL enhancement ideas, it's not a big deal if it's never implemented but it would be nice.
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Your ideas seem much more reasonable.
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Even when they fly in the face of the status quo of the system we have?
Let's just say "wishful hoping" that things like this will change does not seem very reasonable to me.
[/ QUOTE ] I quick replied to LISAR, the person above me must have hit submit before I did. I still haven't read that person's post, so I have no idea what I just agreed with.
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I'm going to have to say I wouldn't go for it, purely for security.
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Bill, I normally agree with you but I have to say that that's a super-contrived example. Possible? Sure. Likely? I can't speak to other players, but for me it just couldn't happen.
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Well, yes, it requires a few things strung together.
How about "Kid that knows enough about the game takes over and is PO'd because parent (who is playing) won't let him/her do something?"
The main point being, the example itself is a slight stretch, but possible to happen with the suggestion. It's not possible at all right now. At most, one character is at risk. CS might have to get involved, but to do any serious damage, a login and password are needed.
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It's not just typing I have to click like 3 or 4 times.
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OMG!!!! You poor thing!!!!
Was that over the top? I can never tell.
I had this typed up, but it ended up in another thread:
I'm not going to get into the discussion on whether or not this even needs looking at, there's plenty of back and forth as is, and I have no strong opinion one way or the other, however I think that even if this is put in /camp shouldn't be the command for it. That lends itself more to the wilderness of other games, than the Urban nature of this one. /Timecard, maybe?
The Abrams is one of the most effective war machines on the planet. - R. Lee Ermy.
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A: You crash into another one.
I think I can deal with the extra few seconds of log-in time.
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I added it to the second post as I noticed I had forgotten to mention that detail. I never considered an "instant" switch, as at the least you could use it as a I'm about to die quick "camp" switch. The trouble of posting something you are so familiar with it's almost instinct to folks who aren't familiar with it. 
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And since the OP said it would keep the 30 second timer no exploit is available.
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He only mentioned that after he realized that his original NO TIMEOUT EQ2 idea wasn't going to get any traction here.
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Actually EQ2 also has a logout countdown of 20 seconds even when doing /camp so it can't be used as a get out of jail free card there either.