I've posted this solution before but here it is again.
1) Solo, vigilance provides the defender no benefit.
2) Vigilance rewards the defender for poor (reactive) play.
3) Certain power sets will see little or no benefit from Vigilance (Forcefields, Cold)
4) Non-healing primaries have little or no control over Vigilance.
5) Low defender DPE (especially for single target attacks)
6) Endurance management for defenders varies based on team size, compostion, and skill. Solo and small teams the defender needs different endurance reduction slotting than on large teams.
The solution to all the problems.
[*] Decouple Vigilance from team health. This needs to be done for the same reason that Defiance was decoupled from blaster health.
For the rest make Vigilance a scaling buff similar to Defiance.
[*]Every time a defender activates a primary or secondary power the defender gets a 5% reduction in endurance costs and a 5% increase in attack rate (powers recharge 5% faster). This buff lasts 10 seconds and the defender can stack up to 5 of them. This addresses all the main issues listed above.
1) Vigilance functions the same no matter what the size of the team is, including soloing.
2) A proactive defender receives maximum benefit and they get just as much benefit from blasting as from buffing. A poor player or "aura rocker" receives less or limited benefits.
3) All power sets receive identical benefits from vigilance even the power sets that prevent damage by buffing or debuffing.
4) The defender is in control of their own vigilance management even if they have no healing power.
5) The defender's DPE and DPS is slightly increased but not their DPA (a sticking point for the devs with current Vigilance).
6) Endurance management remains consistant regardless of team size, composition or skill.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Knight I completely agree this is a better way for Vigilance.
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/Unsigned
Defenders are the most overpowered AT in the entire game, bar none. They don't need an inherent, much less a buff. Defiance was reworked because Blasters were hurting badly. Defenders? Far, FAR from it.
I'm only ladylike when compared to my sister.
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/Unsigned
Defenders are the most overpowered AT in the entire game, bar none. They don't need an inherent, much less a buff. Defiance was reworked because Blasters were hurting badly. Defenders? Far, FAR from it.
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That's pretty debatable. Controllers would've gotten my vote.
Personally I'd like to see Vigilance turn into a scaling mez protection based on team health(modified to include the defender themselves)
So if the team is hurting the defender will be able to do what they can. Nothing annoys me more than getting mezzed on my defender when the team needs me.
Besides the scaling Mez protection is closer in function to the actual meaning of vigil.
if nothing else, they should make vigilance work on:
[u]__team health__[u]
total team health
that way, a solo defender can still get some end discounts when theyre dying...
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/Unsigned
Defenders are the most overpowered AT in the entire game, bar none. They don't need an inherent, much less a buff. Defiance was reworked because Blasters were hurting badly. Defenders? Far, FAR from it.
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It wouldn't really be a buff. It's more of a rework of the inherent. The actual endurance savings would be less than current vigilance especially at the beginning of each fight when you haven't built up any vigilance buffs.
It fixes the problems solo where the average defender isn't overpowered at all and is, in fact, a bit underpowered especially if you count on vigilance for end reductions while teaming and have slotted that way.
It doesn't make the defender any more powerful on teams. The average extra recharge benefit is going to be some where around 15% which is pretty much going to eat up the endurance savings (which is also going to be around 15% [about a DOs worth] good planning of an attack chain using low end cost buffs first may allow a bit more to be eked out). Meaning the defender is going to have to give up a little bit of the buff/debuff, recharge, damage slotting to make room for some end red slotting.
What it does do is make the defender's endurance useage consistant instead of all over the board making the defenders effectiveness the same regardless of team size, compostion, skill or even the AT combination the defender selected.
The little bit of extra recharge isn't enough to make the long recharge buffs like Adrenaline Boost recharge so much faster that it becomes overpowered and it barely helps the short recharge buffs like force fields or Speed boost at all (it would shave .26 seconds off the recharge of unslotted Speed Boost and even less on slotted Speed Boost)
It will make a slight difference on DPS with out changeing DPA or DPE and then mainly on single target blasts with medium-long recharges.
It doesn't change the strength of the buff/debuff the defender provides at all so no buff there. What it does do is make the defender a little less powerful on large skillfull teams (where they are slightly overpowered) at the same time as it makes the defender a little more powerful solo and on small or less skillful teams (where they tend to be a bit underpowered).
It simply changes the inherent to make the defender better balanced not buffed where they don't need buffed.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Personally I'd like to see Vigilance turn into a scaling mez protection based on team health(modified to include the defender themselves)
So if the team is hurting the defender will be able to do what they can. Nothing annoys me more than getting mezzed on my defender when the team needs me.
Besides the scaling Mez protection is closer in function to the actual meaning of vigil.
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And how does that help the Sonic or FF defender that all ready has mez protection (and now has mez protection against sleep effects making them WAY overpowered since it eliminates their only weakness) but now no longer has any endurance discount with a powerset that makes end gurgle down the drain at an alarming rate?
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
The first change that would make me like Vigilance more, is if they made it so you didn't have twenty-odd Vigilance icons dancing around your screen. I haaaate that.
Then making it actually useful would be cool, too.
There are no words for what this community, and the friends I have made here mean to me. Please know that I care for all of you, yes, even you. If you Twitter, I'm MrThan. If you're Unleashed, I'm dumps. I'll try and get registered on the Titan Forums as well. Peace, and thanks for the best nine years anyone could ever ask for.
They have the use of their secondary to help get the team back on it's feet by taking out a problematic enemy, that they normally wouldn't be able to.
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/Unsigned
Defenders are the most overpowered AT in the entire game, bar none. They don't need an inherent, much less a buff. Defiance was reworked because Blasters were hurting badly. Defenders? Far, FAR from it.
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Hasty generalization? Where are the facts, statistics, and numbers? Even a personal example would suffice, but you've given nothing to back up your claim.
Not that I am offended by your post, but I do see it is a large logical fallacy.
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The first change that would make me like Vigilance more, is if they made it so you didn't have twenty-odd Vigilance icons dancing around your screen. I haaaate that.
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Enable numeric icon stacking?
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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They have the use of their secondary to help get the team back on it's feet by taking out a problematic enemy, that they normally wouldn't be able to.
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The defender doesn't have that ability. In fact I would suggest that you try it. Try using an SO'd or Generic IO slotted defender to do something like:
Take out a Malta sapper before it drains all your endurance.
Take out a Tuatha Champion, Freakshow Swiper, or Behemoth overlord before he can use his self heal.
Take out a red cap Hooligan before he dirt dives into a Feind.
Take out a Natterling before he can combine into a Bull Natterling.
Take out an Immunes Surgeon before he can heal himself.
Take out a Rikti Guardian before he can cast AM on his friends.
Takeout a Ruin Mage or a Crey protector before he can get his bubble up.
Take out a Paragon Protector before he can MoG.
The list is longer but this would be good for starters. Oh, and please do it with out using a control heavy secondary like sonic or Ice.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
No At can take out a Ruin Mage before he gets his bubble up.
Point taken though.
Maybe reverse Vigilance to where the better you doing your job the less endurance is used? Just throwing the idea out there.
@ShoRyu Kusanagi
The Unoffical Anime Junky of Justice
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They have the use of their secondary to help get the team back on it's feet by taking out a problematic enemy, that they normally wouldn't be able to.
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The defender doesn't have that ability. In fact I would suggest that you try it. Try using an SO'd or Generic IO slotted defender to do something like:
Take out a Malta sapper before it drains all your endurance.
Take out a Tuatha Champion, Freakshow Swiper, or Behemoth overlord before he can use his self heal.
Take out a red cap Hooligan before he dirt dives into a Feind.
Take out a Natterling before he can combine into a Bull Natterling.
Take out an Immunes Surgeon before he can heal himself.
Take out a Rikti Guardian before he can cast AM on his friends.
Takeout a Ruin Mage or a Crey protector before he can get his bubble up.
Take out a Paragon Protector before he can MoG.
The list is longer but this would be good for starters. Oh, and please do it with out using a control heavy secondary like sonic or Ice.
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I haven't taken my Emp/Energy into the Shard, but I can safely say I've done all of the ones that are actually possible for some AT other than that (IE: not the Rikti Guardian, Immunes Surgeon, or Ruin Mage one)
No
Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
I think you underestimate our fools, sir.
Why /duel is a bad idea
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No At can take out a Ruin Mage before he gets his bubble up.
Point taken though.
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Several of my controllers can, my sonic/ice blaster can, my arch/dev/munitions can, my Ice/MM can, my nrg/nrg/force can.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Maybe doing something along the lines of:
More enemies in the vicinity = increases the potential of your buffing and debuffing, including your endurance discount. In the sense that, a creature in starvation or in need to survive or protect others, it gains the strength to do so. In this case, effectiveness through buffing/debuffing is increased by every enemy in the area.
This would not only give vigilance some usefulness solo, it would make it more useful in general. They'd just need to balance it.
Just my idea.