Shooting from the quip here:[ QUOTE ]
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So, why are you opposed to -Res?
[/ QUOTE ]A couple of reasons:[*]Total Focus as an attack is already long-animating and delivers its punch at the end of the animation. Saying that the 'extra damage' of the set then comes after you do this kind of extraordinary attack sounds like it wouldn't make me happy - I'd much rather a king hit feel like a king hit.
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Sure, I didn't even suggest that -Res be given to Total Focus of course. Wouldn't it be nice to apply a bit of -Res before the TF?
[/ QUOTE ]I'd much rather that Total Focus actually kill things, for all the fuss it garners.
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Ok, so working with "/Energy's strength is single target control", and what we've learned that "chance of is pretty worthless, when you've got 100% controls in your primary". How can we arrange 100% effects in the controls to not be overpowered, but to still be useful.
* Power Bolt - 50% knockback, 50% mag 1 stun for 4 seconds. The one exception because it's the weakest.
* Bonesmasher - 100% mag 2 stun for 12 seconds.
* Power Push - 100% knockback, unchanged
* Power Blast - 100% mag 1 stun for 8 seconds, 100% knockdown.
* Whirling Hands - 100% mag 2 stun for 4 seconds.
* Total Focus - 100% mag 3 stun for 15 seconds. 100% knockdown.
* Sniper Blast - 100% knockback, 100% mag3 stun for 15 seconds.
* Power Burst - 100% mag 2 stun for 12 seconds, 100% knockdown.
Domination would probably add mag 1 to everything instead of doubling it.
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Very nice idea.
Numbers are overpowered (lower down to 2/3 values for all except Whirling Hands).
Otherwise very nice.
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Ok, so working with "/Energy's strength is single target control", and what we've learned that "chance of is pretty worthless, when you've got 100% controls in your primary". How can we arrange 100% effects in the controls to not be overpowered, but to still be useful.
* Power Bolt - 50% knockback, 50% mag 1 stun for 4 seconds. The one exception because it's the weakest.
* Bonesmasher - 100% mag 2 stun for 12 seconds.
* Power Push - 100% knockback, unchanged
* Power Blast - 100% mag 1 stun for 8 seconds, 100% knockdown.
* Whirling Hands - 100% mag 2 stun for 4 seconds.
* Total Focus - 100% mag 3 stun for 15 seconds. 100% knockdown.
* Sniper Blast - 100% knockback, 100% mag3 stun for 15 seconds.
* Power Burst - 100% mag 2 stun for 12 seconds, 100% knockdown.
Domination would probably add mag 1 to everything instead of doubling it.
[/ QUOTE ]
Very nice idea.
Numbers are overpowered (lower down to 2/3 values for all except Whirling Hands).
Otherwise very nice.
[/ QUOTE ]
How are those values overpowered?
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp
Looks good. Whirlings hands would be a very nice control power in this setup.
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
I was thinking, instead of -res, how bout extra damage against mezzed opponents, similar to containment?
Dark Bard, Zoobait, Debacle
jmsb
Por vezes d� vontade...
chucknorriss
speak american godamnit
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How are those values overpowered?
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Cuz it can stack enough mag to stun Hamidon?
If I quote #'s, they're from City of Data.
Global: @Kazari
It was either Taunt or Purple Triangles of Doom. I stand by my decision!
-BackAlleyBrawler
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I'd much rather that Total Focus actually kill things, for all the fuss it garners.
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You sir, ask for too much.
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Numbers are overpowered (lower down to 2/3 values for all except Whirling Hands).
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Remember that the numbers scale down against higher level enemies, and people are unlikely to enhance for this aspect. Using this against even-cons I think you could keep one elite boss stunned, keep two bosses on their back or stunned, or control 2 lieutenants and a few minions. Given that it doesn't give you much time to use your primary, scales pretty poorly to +2 enemies, and your damage is fairly weak, I think it's probably fair, but wouldn't complain about slightly shorter durations.
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Using this against even-cons I think you could keep one elite boss stunned, keep two bosses on their back or stunned
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That's why. Two bosses permanently controlled means that it will scale up to permanently control a +2 boss. There's not much else that, without enhancement, can just start hitting a +2 boss, and guarantee pretty much no return fire from the boss. Now, if you had to use the primary in there to stack Stuns, maybe, but when the secondary alone can do it, that's pretty big. I mean, people take Air Superiority for the 100% knockdown, so getting in a higher-damage ranged attack is really strong. Adding in all the Stun mag even without Domination, and this secondary would basically remove the problem of "do I save Domination for the end boss or not".
I do like the idea of dependable secondary effect from it. I just think that if you're permanently stunning 2 minions, 1 Lt, or a boss for about 1/2 to 2/3 of the time, that is enough control to make it a good secondary. Add in the control from your primary, and you can really solo well. Total control is rarely necessary, and if you're in Domination mode, then you're pretty much shutting down an entire spawn with just attacks rather than controls, which saves a lot of Endurance and does more damage.
And remember, people WILL slot with Dam/Mez HOs, though that's probably enough of an outlier that it may not be worth considering when designing a balanced set. But even with just IOs, you can slot for a decent amount of Stun added in to the damage.
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There's not much else that, without enhancement, can just start hitting a +2 boss, and guarantee pretty much no return fire from the boss.
[/ QUOTE ]After an initial volley. Not irrelevant. But still.
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I do like the idea of dependable secondary effect from it. I just think that if you're permanently stunning 2 minions, 1 Lt, or a boss for about 1/2 to 2/3 of the time
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I see the draw of this change being that you don't have to spend time applying low-damage controls and can just attack. If the boss isn't stunned 100% of the time, that negates the advantage. I'll still be stacking my hold, and the stuns might as well not be there.
Predictable mez on your secondary is, quite simply, something you will never see implemented, regardless of whether it's balanced or not. I also don't think it's balanced, but that's just my opinion.
Anyway, you've already seen my earlier post on what NRG needs to bring it out of the basement, my views have not changed.
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Predictable mez on your secondary is, quite simply, something you will never see implemented, regardless of whether it's balanced or not. I also don't think it's balanced, but that's just my opinion.
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Why not? Total Focus has it. I don't want to ignore your opinion, but I'll have no choice if you don't explain further. The arguments for 100% stuns is that Dominators are a control AT, and that the undependable stuns might as well not be there for the good they do.
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Anyway, you've already seen my earlier post on what NRG needs to bring it out of the basement, my views have not changed.
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Ignoring the cottage rule is pointless.
You can die before Total Focus ever makes contact fairly easily since the animation time is 3.3 seconds(I know it's technically more than that since people started factoring for server lag or some such). Pretty sure that's the balance for it doing a 100% Stun.
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There's not much else that, without enhancement, can just start hitting a +2 boss, and guarantee pretty much no return fire from the boss.
[/ QUOTE ]After an initial volley. Not irrelevant. But still.
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I don't think so. Open up with Power Burst for guaranteed knockdown, then hit them with any Mag 2 Stun while they're getting up. No alpha if both powers hit.
Hm. Even with knockdown, I've been hit by bosses. Maybe it's a function of my connection rather than the game mechanics.
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Hm. Even with knockdown, I've been hit by bosses. Maybe it's a function of my connection rather than the game mechanics.
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Also could be them aggroing when your attack breaks Stealth or whatever you used to get close, and getting a shot off before they go down. I don't know how they could get a shot off before being hit by an attack that starts out of aggro range like Nemesis Staff unless it misses.
Of course, Power Burst does start within aggro range. But I still think that guaranteed knockdown + Stun to start with, followed by guaranteed Stun, is fine if the resulting guaranteed Stuns aren't strong enough to perma-Stun a boss, but too strong if it can perma-Stun the boss.
This is still quite useful as you start with this, Stun the boss for 6 seconds, which allows you to stack your Hold on him. Or to mez the LT next to him, or something.
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I still think that guaranteed knockdown + Stun to start with, followed by guaranteed Stun, is fine if the resulting guaranteed Stuns aren't strong enough to perma-Stun a boss, but too strong if it can perma-Stun the boss.
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I on the other hand think it's fair if it's on a control AT in a set that's under performing for damage. Not something worth arguing about, since ultimately that's not our decision to make.
I thought about your points, Lil, and I have to concede my gut instinct that auto-stun effects on energy powers being overpowered is, at best, not easily expressed objectively, using stuff like math.
However, on reflection, I also don't think it's really what dominators NEED. As we've discussed in another thread, MOST doms don't suffer for control, it's just that the gameplay window where control is relevant and useful on teams is rather narrow. Stacking more control on our primary control isn't going to fix the problem, any more than knockback's soft control fixes the problem.
I really don't think it's Ice's recharge debuffs that make it a superior choice to energy, it's the faster animations, which in turn results in higher DPA, to say nothing of more and better AOE. The same could be said of the other sets, with the added benefit of a build-up like power.
Here's a notion to muse upon: What if the devs went and did for PVE what they did for PVP, namely make damage powers execute in proportion to their animation time (disregarding secondary effects like fire's DoT)?
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Hm. Even with knockdown, I've been hit by bosses. Maybe it's a function of my connection rather than the game mechanics.
[/ QUOTE ]
When I use Lift on my Grav/Psi too quickly after the previous Lift the enemy will be launched in the air upright - they can still attack me, and they land on their feet.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Yeah, ragdoll physics are often suppressed if the mob is engaged in another animation. I'm not 100% sure of the mechanics, but I avoid the issue by not spamming lift on the same target twice in a row.
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Yeah, ragdoll physics are often suppressed if the mob is engaged in another animation. I'm not 100% sure of the mechanics, but I avoid the issue by not spamming lift on the same target twice in a row.
[/ QUOTE ]
That really helps when I'm up against a Single Night Widow.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
|
Sarcasm doesn't transmit will over the internet, but yeah, Night Widows are a special case. Honestly, I just pop purples and reds and burn them down.
[ QUOTE ]
Sarcasm doesn't transmit will over the internet, but yeah, Night Widows are a special case. Honestly, I just pop purples and reds and burn them down.
[/ QUOTE ]
Grav/PSI. I'm typically bypassing them whenever necessary.
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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[ QUOTE ]
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[ QUOTE ]
What extras or discounts could you give it?
[/ QUOTE ]Additive changes to the snipes might help (might might might might might, I must reinforce) as I stated a beelyun years ago. Also, Claws gets a discount on its recharge/end/damage formula - allowing it lower costs and lower recharge for its damage. The same might not be an unreasonable addition to energy - a change that's still halted by DPA.
[/ QUOTE ]
Do you remember what you came up with for Sniper Blast? A phase effect. That's not going to do much for Energy Assault. Even if you gave /Energy a discount for rech/end/dam somewhere, what would be the result? I'd expect to still have slightly above average single target damage with mostly useless secondary effects.
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And another idea comes to me:
100% low-mag stun on every attack. Interesting stun stacking possibilities.
[/ QUOTE ]Similar to the -res, this is stuff that only works when you're getting sequential attacks against things. Not generally as useful as it sounds. But don't get me wrong, it's not a bad idea at all, though perhaps better on a fast-attacker than an Energy Assault dom.
I do think the identity of /EA is 'the single target control guy,' so we should probably expect changes to adjust that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ok, so working with "/Energy's strength is single target control", and what we've learned that "chance of is pretty worthless, when you've got 100% controls in your primary". How can we arrange 100% effects in the controls to not be overpowered, but to still be useful.
<ul type="square">[*]Power Bolt - 50% knockback, 50% mag 1 stun for 4 seconds. The one exception because it's the weakest.[*]Bonesmasher - 100% mag 2 stun for 12 seconds.[*]Power Push - 100% knockback, unchanged[*]Power Blast - 100% mag 1 stun for 8 seconds, 100% knockdown.[*]Whirling Hands - 100% mag 2 stun for 4 seconds.[*]Total Focus - 100% mag 3 stun for 15 seconds. 100% knockdown.[*]Sniper Blast - 100% knockback, 100% mag3 stun for 15 seconds.[*]Power Burst - 100% mag 2 stun for 12 seconds, 100% knockdown.[/list]
Domination would probably add mag 1 to everything instead of doubling it.
[/ QUOTE ]
I would play it.
"Yes, winning all the time can be boring."
-Knight_Chill
"It's amazing how well you can put up with endurance issues if you hide them under a large enough pile of bodies."
-Spiritchaser speaking on Dom Revamp