Attention comic artists to be.... *DELETED*
By
Absinth_Incubus,
Posted on: 2008-08-10 24:43 in Multi-Media Fan Creations
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The Red Phantom needs your help. His adventures (in web comic forum) has been languishing in the limbo where left socks disappear to and where lint comes from.
Since the beginning of 2008, I have gone thru 2 artists (one was a Steve Ditko/Jack Kirby wanna-be, the other was a pretentious, artistically inconsistent smug [censored]) and have spent the last few months seeking out artists who can do it all and do panels to no avail.
First, let me say this is non-paying. Unless you count good karma. You will get credit obviously. Eventually I plan to have the comic published and distributed at comic-cons and local stores.
Second... Well there really isn't any 2 part. If you have any questions about the Red Phantom, please feel to contact me.
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Non-paying work that eventually "may" get published and distributed is pretty much lawyer material and a hard sell to artists.
I would draw up a contract for your own and your freelance help's own protection.
Ive done the "in good faith" and "for good karma" thing several times and gotten burned, bad - i.e. doing work and getting no kill-fee for your time if the project goes belly up or having your e-mails and calls ignored if sales become brisk.
You likewise can get taken to the cleaners if you do end up publishing it with no contract when the artist comes after you for back-royalties.
Not to bust your crank or anything, but a lot of us have been there, done that and bought the t-shirt with writer/publishers in training who act like thier doing you a favor by offering you a non-paying gig - save yourself the headache and either draw up a contract or god-forbid; pay an artist for his/her time.
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Non-paying work that eventually "may" get published and distributed is pretty much lawyer material and a hard sell to artists.
I would draw up a contract for your own and your freelance help's own protection.
Ive done the "in good faith" and "for good karma" thing several times and gotten burned, bad - i.e. doing work and getting no kill-fee for your time if the project goes belly up or having your e-mails and calls ignored if sales become brisk.
You likewise can get taken to the cleaners if you do end up publishing it with no contract when the artist comes after you for back-royalties.
Not to bust your crank or anything, but a lot of us have been there, done that and bought the t-shirt with writer/publishers in training who act like thier doing you a favor by offering you a non-paying gig - save yourself the headache and either draw up a contract or god-forbid; pay an artist for his/her time.
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This.
Also, while we may not KNOW who these artists that you mention, dissing them publicly, even without naming them, gives a very non-professional vibe to artists that may have an inkling towards doing non-pay projects. I would have stated something more along the lines of: "While I've worked with artists in the past, things didn't work out as planned."
A lot of artists and writer duos need to have a good vibe going on. It's a team effort. I just finished up a professional non-pay job on a five page story because I really dug what the writer was doing, and he and I worked very well together. The same can be said for working with Arcana Comics back in Spring of this year, I had two very awesome people backing me up, and it made my life as an artist easier because not only did I believe in the project, but I had people who put faith in me to do a good job.
Right now, you're giving off a very frustrated, "I don't play well with others" vibe, and it's off-putting. Remember that if these two artists did work for you FOR FREE, that it's a gift, and regardless of how you parted ways, if a person puts in the time to help someone out without pay, then you need to be a bit more humble. That, my friend, is how you will find an artist that will work well with you.
OP, I'm not the greatest artist around, so maybe this won't be a loss to you, but going from you post... I wouldn't work with ya.
Sorry man, but for a NON PAYING JOB that you want done, you post left exactly the wrong taste in my mouth.
Better luck next time.
Comics are a lot of work, getting one for free isn't going to happen.
Save up some money, pay for an artist. Because you know, you get what you pay for, and if you're paying nothing, you'll get...
Post deleted by NYCPulpWriter
man this guy is a piece of work huh?
I mean...I don't even know where to start here lol
Im sorry, lol. I just had some really bad luck with the recent 3 artists and it's left me cynical as hell I admit. Obviously, not all artists are like this but for the most part, I've had no luck with finding the right one that balances their love for their craft and money.
Because your going about it all wrong is why.
Trust me, i've had an idea for a TA comic for years now but i wouldn't dream of coming on the boards and asking someone to work for probably a year and then some to get paid.
You just can't say i'll give you a percentage of the profits if and when it gets off the ground. Thats bad business all the way around.
You got screwed before because you didn't have a contract. Plain and simple. If i were an artist or writer i'd either get a contract or sell it per panel. That would be my suggestion to you. Find an artist you wanna work with and order panels. Pay per page and offer them a percentage of the end sales IF it ever gets any profit.
Coming on the boards and demanding art for free with years before they may see anything from it is ludicris. Come on now.
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Because your going about it all wrong is why.
Trust me, i've had an idea for a TA comic for years now but i wouldn't dream of coming on the boards and asking someone to work for probably a year and then some to get paid.
You just can't say i'll give you a percentage of the profits if and when it gets off the ground. Thats bad business all the way around.
You got screwed before because you didn't have a contract. Plain and simple. If i were an artist or writer i'd either get a contract or sell it per panel. That would be my suggestion to you. Find an artist you wanna work with and order panels. Pay per page and offer them a percentage of the end sales IF it ever gets any profit.
Coming on the boards and demanding art for free with years before they may see anything from it is ludicris. Come on now.
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Relax. It isn't ludicrous, alright?. I've seen other writers and artists request help before on other forums some paying, some for free. Especially on ComicJobz.com before it was shut down and on ComicSpace.
Yeah maybe for trade offs i imagine or even for a single piece or whatnot. Not for an entire comic. You can see the reaction you got from the few artists that posted here already.
But like Juggy said, better luck next time. Why not order the panels and pay per page? what would be wrong with doing it that way anyways?
Actually I did find paying per page a lot easier than panel... My mind tends to wander and I get easily distracted. I used to pay 50 to 70 bucks per page before hand and if the artist did an exceptionally good job, Id pay an extra 20 bucks. But the last 2 artists.. eh 
I rather be honest and not lie to other writers if I'm asked about the work.
But it is what it is. Too many bad apples from both sides ruin it for the rest of those trying to claw out a living.
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Actually I did find paying per page a lot easier than panel... My mind tends to wander and I get easily distracted. I used to pay 50 to 70 bucks per page before hand and if the artist did an exceptionally good job, Id pay an extra 20 bucks. But the last 2 artists.. eh I rather be honest and not lie to other writers if I'm asked about the work.
But it is what it is. Too many bad apples from both sides ruin it for the rest of those trying to claw out a living.
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ok yeah i hear ya, but just remember we can't talk digits on the forums.
But i get it. Did you get to review what the artists were doing? and approve the pencils? Or did you just go into this all blindly? Damn i need to get on with that guide lol
Btw that price per panel even with the bonus tip doesn't come close to what i know to expect. I was looking into it before when i had the money and it was at least 4 times that for a good quality artist. If your paying that then you really are getting what ya pay for.
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Actually I did find paying per page a lot easier than panel... My mind tends to wander and I get easily distracted. I used to pay 50 to 70 bucks per page before hand and if the artist did an exceptionally good job, Id pay an extra 20 bucks. But the last 2 artists.. eh I rather be honest and not lie to other writers if I'm asked about the work.
But it is what it is. Too many bad apples from both sides ruin it for the rest of those trying to claw out a living.
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ok yeah i hear ya, but just remember we can't talk digits on the forums.
But i get it. Did you get to review what the artists were doing? and approve the pencils? Or did you just go into this all blindly? Damn i need to get on with that guide lol
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I did review the art and I was suitably impressed. But then the work began to slack and then the delays... Eh. But enough my misery!
I suggest you just keep looking for someone who is the calibre of artist you are looking for and you are willing to pay for. I get the impression that you are too picky for what you may get for free. Plus, free work is not guaranteed to continue all the way through to the end, then you could end up with a comic with inconsistent styles in it. At least with payment the artist owes you what you pay for.
It takes money to make money. If you are not willing to invest in your story, then I don't think you think it will sell. Why would I invest in something the person asking me to doesn't believe in? If money is hard to come by, well that's a whole other issue and I am not a financial advisor.
I'm not angry, or trying to be rude. I'm just calling it like I see it.
LOL, oh man. This is a train wreck.
You get what you pay for, m'kay?
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Massacre_Melanie -the original Fire/Dark Corruptor -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=115217
The Guide to BURN
I stayed out of this one 
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I stayed out of this one
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*hands Scarfy the Slacker badge* 
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Because your going about it all wrong is why.
Trust me, i've had an idea for a TA comic for years now but i wouldn't dream of coming on the boards and asking someone to work for probably a year and then some to get paid.
You just can't say i'll give you a percentage of the profits if and when it gets off the ground. Thats bad business all the way around.
You got screwed before because you didn't have a contract. Plain and simple. If i were an artist or writer i'd either get a contract or sell it per panel. That would be my suggestion to you. Find an artist you wanna work with and order panels. Pay per page and offer them a percentage of the end sales IF it ever gets any profit.
Coming on the boards and demanding art for free with years before they may see anything from it is ludicris. Come on now.
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Relax. It isn't ludicrous, alright?. I've seen other writers and artists request help before on other forums some paying, some for free. Especially on ComicJobz.com before it was shut down and on ComicSpace.
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Actually, your proposition is fairly ludicrous. not insanely, but it's your average run of the mill type ludicrous. And before you get defensive, I'll explain why. First, your proposition is incredibly common. That's why you'd see so many postings about new projects for some pay or little pay. A lot of these people think... they KNOW they have the next big thing (I'm not lumping you in that group, but the sheer amount of times I've had people approach art forums with "THIS WILL MAKE YOU FAMOUS" scenarios is pretty insane). Before you sign up an artist to your project, you need to know if your project is at all viable. Go to conventions and talk to the writers. Pitch them the idea. Sell the idea in one sentence.
Example: Small girl raises monster to be her friend and adventures ensue.
You don't need to give how many pages. You don't have to give synopsis of the characters. If someone perks up at the idea and wants to hear more, THEN you give them more. Have someone, other than a friend, read your summaries, your character descriptions. Why not friends or family? They're going to tell you they like it because they're emotionally involved. Going to conventions with people you've never met before is a great way to figure out what needs changing.
Yes, you've seen people say they'll work for free. That's wrong. And here's why: The discussion of free work or compensation later was brought up amongst graphic designers, illustrators, animators, and comic artists on a large community forum online a few years back. The comics industry needs a re-haul. There are too many people that are doing free work with the promise of sales later, doing spec work and work for hire that lose all their rights as artists. I would advise you to look up the recent folding of Tokyopop and their contracts for artists/writers/creative teams. It's pretty horrific. Aside from that, many, MANY fresh artists out there hear those words, "Compensation later", and they want to get into the industry so badly, they go ahead and sign up for these projects. They're promised their big break, they're told that once it takes off at conventions, they'll rake in the money. This never happens. Never.
One of my first professional gigs was a very low-pay book with the promise of a percentage of any/all sales. It was one of the chief reasons I signed on. Low pay, but the promise of extra checks in the mail was really enticing. Guess how many checks I got for the sales of the books and merchandise over the last six years? Nadda. Even though I HAD a contract. I went after the company, to no avail.
As to my friends doing comics solely to make a living? Out of all my friends, I think it took one of them selling at Comic Con for three years to start making a profit on her comic.
So let's say you make this book. Between the cost of printing your comic and local shop sales, you will net a negative profit, if you go all out and take it to a self-publishing place, you'll probably be negative a few thousand dollars. This is the reality of comics. The exposure doesn't mean you'll get feedback or a break with a company, it doesn't even ensure you make money. It just doesn't work that way. Even if you did attend conventions for several years, your chances of making a profit off your book are minimal at best. My other friend, a well known web-comic artist, only now, after four or five years of working his patoot off every day drawing, is starting to see a profit on his work. He's the sole creator (artist and writer).
Your best bet? Draw up that contract that we all have talked about. Pay a PER PAGE rate, not per panel, which whould include whether or not this artist is doing it all (pencils, inks, color) or just part of it. Set your comic up on the web, and do a short five-seven page story that you can copy at Kinko's and take it to conventions. Hand it out for free, bring the artist with you if you can. With some luck, for every hundred copies you hand out, you'll get one or two emails in response to it. Lather, rinse, repeat for a few years.
Breaking into comics... I've been doing comics professionally off and on since 2001. I've yet to earn a living wage off of it, because comics don't pay a living wage. So why do I do it? Because I love stories. I love telling stories, and I love working with people.
So my two cents, again.
oh come on, I can't be responsiable for all the forum dust ups :P Someone else gets the dubious honor from time to time
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oh come on, I can't be responsiable for all the forum dust ups :P Someone else gets the dubious honor from time to time
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Yeah, don't be greedy now.
My Deviant Art page link-link
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Well in the OP's defense it never hurts to ask Still most peoples portfolios are filled with things they are intrested in .
Its hard enough to get most of us to draw on demand even moreso if its not one of our pet projects , the only way to circumvent that would be to either pay someone or luck into someone that feels as strongly about your project as you do .
Most of us are fairly creative and like to let our imagination go wild when we work on things , which we can't really do with someone else is holding the reins .
I do wish you all the best with your comic though
and Edited in
Sayterra explains it really really well
Well.. if the op can't seem to work with artists, maybe he could draw the comic himself. Really, this isn't supposed to be an insult. You could grab some photographs and tracing paper and start drawing. If your writing is good enough, the art is usually forgiven even if it doesn't look quite as professional as you'd like. And who knows, maybe you'll actually learn some skills may never need to deal with artists ever again. Give it try, it has the possibility of win/win for the op. (BTW, the only reason I mention this is because independent graphic novel authors have done this when in a pinch).
Post deleted by NYCPulpWriter