Welcome to SLASH! A Dual Blades / Willpower Guide
By
0neye,
Posted on: 2008-02-22 24:42 in Player Guides
Ablating + Vengeful + Sweeping + AV = first total
27.5 + 34.2 + 35.4 + 21.2 = 118.3
118.3 plugged into ((base*bonus%) + base) = ((118.3*3.3) + 118.3) = 508.69 total AV damage
AV damage + BF damage = Total Damage
508.69 + 66.8 = 575.49
I don't know any other way of showing how relatively useless BF is for brutes. What I just showed was the minuscule amount of damage BF > AV does over AV > PS. I didn't even get down into the real dirt of the brute damage mod (which I believe is .80) compared to scrappers (1.25 I think) in regards to BF.
actually blinding feint is not a bad power to fill out your attack chain, since you will lose redraw time if you try to slot in boxing or airup, but I sort of understand where he's coming from.
all damage buffs apply to the base damage of the attack.
say 100 points.
since a scrapper can only add enough enhancements to get to about 200% damage, then the total damage will be about 260% with bf double-stacked.
That means that you are only getting a 30% increase to your damage if you have all your attacks slotted out for maximum damage, with blinding feint. (60% is only 30% of 200%) if your attack was unslotted, then you would be getting a full 60% out of it. (60% is 60% of 100%) you lose efficiency slotting for damage, but the actual amount of damage you do makes up for it.
With a brute, however, they can get up to (theoretically) 300% damage from Fury alone. add in damage slotting, and that's (theoretically) 400% damage.
with Blinding feint, that becomes 460%. Unfortunately, 60% of 400% only adds up to about 15% additional damage from double-stacked blinding feint. That is, in the end, not a very efficient boost for a power that is heavily slotted, since Blinding feint's OWN damage is rather low, and it's end cost is rather high.
Is an extra 15% damage worth 2 slots for recharge, 2 or more slots for end reduction, or blowing 15 endurance every 12 seconds?
That is entirely for you to decide. I took it myself as an attack chain filler, and when I am at low or no fury, I get as much of a damage buff as a scrapper does from it. (from 200-260%) But I will be honest, if it weren't for willpower's huge endurance surplus and the fact that it also gives a 10% to-hit (accuracy?) buff, I would drop it in a heartbeat.
Edit-
Actually, for certain builds (Those which use no damage enhancements, instead relying on fury and native proc IO's) Blinding feint is a very fine choice indeed. It only becomes about a 20% damage buff at full fury, but the +20% to-hit can make a HUGE difference in the success or failure of a build. and with all those free slots that you don't need for accuracy and damage you can slot some MAD proc IO's and fantastic endurance reduction. I saw a db/dark brute IO'd out this way and it was truly a frightening sight.
Just as a note I was wrong about the damage mods for brutes and scrappers. For brutes it's 0.75 and for scrappers it's 1.125. Using those numbers it's easy to see yet another reason why BF is better for scrappers than for brutes.
100 damage + 30% bonus from BF = 130
130 damage * 0.75 = 97.5
130 damage * 1.125 = 146.25 damage
VAST difference there.
I think you got it wrong. The modifier should affect the base damage. The way you have it, using BF would be a damage debuff.
Say base damage is 100:
(Brutes) 100base x .75 = 75 Brute base x30% = 97.5
(Scrappers) 100base x 1,25 =125 Scrapper base x30% = 162.5
So there is a 50 point difference right off the bat before factoing in BF, 65 when factoring in BF. The big difference is in the Modifier not BF.
Could be wrong, but I think this is right.
Edit* I used 1.25 on accident for scrappers so all my numbers are wrong. Point I was making is the way you layed it out was what was confusing me. We come to the same end, just different ways of getting there. BTW, scrappers get 37.5% from BF.
Hehe, 30%, 37.5%, either way it's a better attack for scrappers than brutes. I honestly didn't know, because I don't even play blueside. They need to rename Paragon City into Yawnsville. 
Now that's something I can agree on! We just need some more SFs Redside and everything would be cool. If we could get the Brutal Blade set in my sig....I'd be in heaven! BB/WP FTW!
Ok, I know you are all really flushing this BF thing out, and I'm trying to follow along. However I am wondering something.
Do we know exactly where the Blinding Feint damage boost is being added in the equation? I am wondering this based on the fact that there seems to be some folks of different minds about how much it boosts damage. Some say more, other's insist less.
As a new player, I have no idea what tools or official info there is out there to reference. So please allow me to muse here? Perhaps one of you can help clear this up for me?
Ok, I'm not a big number cruncher, so bear with me, and my over simplistic example here please.
Considering, Attack1 has base damage of 50, Slot Enhancements of %100, Fury bar at %200
Does it work out like this:
Attack1 = ((Base x (%100 Enhancement + % 200Fury) + Base) + (Base x %30 Blinding Feint) = 215
Or perhaps like this:
Attack1 = Base + ((Base x %100 Enhancement bonus) + (Base x %30 Blinding Feint) x %200 Fury bonus = 230
If this is actual known information my mussing here would be a mute point. However if it isn't, and Fury does multiply the BF bonus, this might explain the different results folks seem to be getting?
Thoughts?
-1i
So basicly your question is, does fury affect base damage or actual damage. I gotta be honest I can't say with 100% garantee, but I'm pretty sure fury is affecting the base damage like everything else.
Basically, yeah I guess that's the question.
Additionally, I wonder, How does popping an damage Inspiration, or Assault effect Brute damage? Does that get applied separately from Fury as well? Perhaps there is a connection to how they, and BF works?
Every effect that increases damage stacks with all other effects. That is to say, you add them all up THEN apply to the base damage.
So you have 100% from enhancements. Then get another 200% from fury. That's 300% so far. Then you add in 30% from BF. So now you're at 330%. Let's say you decide to also pop a couple T1 reds at 25% each. So now, you're at 380%. Now let's assume you yourself, as a brute, are running Assault, which according to Mids that's 10.5%. Now we're at 390.5%.
390.5% of 50 is 195.25 damage. That's before the AT damage mods and resists. This just goes to show 2 things... The first is that Fury really is so very powerful, and the reason most brutes don't even bother slotting damage before SOs. The second... is that Assault is really bad for a brute.
Ah! Thanks!
So, in my example:
Attack1 has base damage of 50, Slot Enhancements of %100, Fury bar at %200
That would be:
Attack1 = ((Base x (%100Enhancement + % 200Fury +%30Blinding Feint) + Base) = 215
So it's always ((base*total enhance%) + base)
Ok. so I can see what BF is really giving here in terms of damage boost. Considering Fury, and regular enhance, overall the damage boost while tangible, is not nearly as potent.
Still, I don't want to knock it completely for Brutes, I think it may have uses for some builds at least to-hit wise depending on how they want to IO set up perhaps? I'm still somewhat intrigued by the BF > AV combo spam. In the end, that may not be any better, or even much worse then something else. But it's something different! Experimentation is where innovation lies! 
Also, I can see what you mean about BF having higher value for Scrappers, and Tankers! I would consider it if I was playing one.
However as a Brute, I think I am going to be content without it.
Hrm, now what to take in it's place!
-1i
You might want to mention the fact that WillPower's "Taunt" aura, Rise to the Challenge, only has a one second, mag 3 taunt. Compared to every other taunt aura at 13 to 16 seconds and mag 4, you really lose aggro at the drop of a hat.
True, you are not a tank, but you do want the mobs to focus their attention on you. Without taunt in your build it can be very difficult to keep their attention away from anyone else in your team.
If I had known this, I would have been unlikely to have even rolled up a WillPower brute to begin with. Especially a DB/WP since the taunt pretty much has to go in between attack chains.
That's true Puck. The taunt aura won't hold anything to you if someone fires off an AoE or a heal. To be honest, adding the -tohit to RttC was kind of pointless. It's a minuscule amount, virtually no impact, and doesn't generate enough threat to be of use as a tanking tool. RttC is, for all intents and purposes, an awesome regen power and nothing more.
If you're more interested in tanking, I'd recommend any of the sets with a damage aura (Fire, Dark, and Elec), or of course Stone since it also has a damage aura with Mud Pots and unrivaled mitigation. Honestly I look at those 4 sets as more team oriented. They do better than a WP brute potentially, both via tanking and by having support. But on my WP brute, on the other hand, I have exactly ZERO downtime when soloing, and usually end a fight at full health and endurance. Combined with DB it's a non-stop slashfest with blood, gore, flesh, metal, ectoplasm, and innumerable other substances flying every which way. Pure unadulterated mayhem, mindless pixelated violence, just what a body needs to relieve stress and not get arrested in the process.
I noticed in this build that indomitable will is left until 22.
I'm used to playing Tanks, and I know that so far as Blueside goes, I'd hate to have to wait that long to get mez resist (although the KB up to that point is manageable). Is it significantly different on the Rouge Islands, or should I be looking for an earlier spot to fit this one in?
Sorry I haven't been keeping up on this thread.
IW can wait, it all depends on what you're fighting. I wouldn't push it back any further than 22 though. If you want to squeeze it in you'll certainly notice the difference. Up to that point it's mostly KB that you run into on the Isles anyway, but it'll definitely help.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Jacobi Law: Level 50 Natural Brute
Primary Power Set: Dual Blades
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Power Slice
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance
Level 2: Ablating Strike
Level 4: Fast Healing
Level 6: Combat Jumping
Level 8: Blinding Feint
Level 10: Indomitable Will
Level 12: Swift
Level 14: Super Jump
Level 16: Rise to the Challenge
Level 18: Vengeful Slice
Level 20: Quick Recovery
Level 22: Health
Level 24: Stamina
Level 26: Sweeping Strike
Level 28: Heightened Senses
Level 30: Mind Over Body
Level 32: Kick
Level 35: Tough
Level 38: Weave
Level 41: Resurgence
Level 44: Strength of Will
Level 47: Gloom
Level 49: Hurdle
------------
Level 1: Brawl
Level 1: Sprint
Level 2: Rest
Level 1: Fury
------------
Set Bonus Totals:
------------
Set Bonuses:
Mako's Bite
(Power Slice)
Numina's Convalescence
(High Pain Tolerance)
Aegis
(High Pain Tolerance)
Pounding Slugfest
(Ablating Strike)
Pulverizing Fisticuffs
(Ablating Strike)
Numina's Convalescence
(Fast Healing)
Luck of the Gambler
(Combat Jumping)
Hecatomb
(Blinding Feint)
Luck of the Gambler
(Indomitable Will)
Winter's Gift
(Super Jump)
Numina's Convalescence
(Rise to the Challenge)
Mako's Bite
(Vengeful Slice)
Performance Shifter
(Quick Recovery)
Numina's Convalescence
(Health)
Miracle
(Health)
Armageddon
(Sweeping Strike)
Luck of the Gambler
(Heightened Senses)
Aegis
(Mind Over Body)
Steadfast Protection
(Mind Over Body)
Explosive Strike
(Kick)
Aegis
(Tough)
Luck of the Gambler
(Weave)
Apocalypse
(Gloom)
I've been tinkering for about a year and a half now and I think this is the best possible build for DB/WP. The only thing I might change is taking the slots out of Kick so I can slot a PvP IO for the 3% defense to all bonus. Other than that, this build is solid. Enjoy.
Nice, thanks for posting this.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
Fixed the encoding issues for the Mid's build import:
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Uze DaBladez - 50+2 - DB/WP Brute - Infinity
Uze DaSchwartz - 50+2 - Fire/Ice Blaster - Infinity
Uze DaFarce - 50 - Invuln/Mace Tank - Infinity
Psy Bub - 50 - FF Defender - Infinity
Ok? That was even more confusing.
When I start at 0 damage buff, and use BF...my damage buff goes to 30%.I use it again and it goes to 62% (Fury starting to build adds that 2%) I realize this is 30% of the base damage, Fury works the same way. I'm not following what your trying to say.