Discussion: Get the "Real Numbers!"
By
Amarsir,
Posted on: 2008-02-12 09:36 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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The mez resistance part is a very unique creature.
It is indeed a "set bonus", but instead of being activated for just being slotted in the power, it is triggered by activating the power. So the mez resistance bonus is only activated once you activate the power. It is neither a "proc" or a "set bonus", but a rather interesting mix of the two.
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Wow. That is odd. How does it work if you put it in an auto Resistance power then? Is it pinned at 5% forever? If so, thats going to require some reslotting on my Kheld, sigh. . .
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The mez resistance part is a very unique creature.
It is indeed a "set bonus", but instead of being activated for just being slotted in the power, it is triggered by activating the power. So the mez resistance bonus is only activated once you activate the power. It is neither a "proc" or a "set bonus", but a rather interesting mix of the two.
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Wow. That is odd. How does it work if you put it in an auto Resistance power then? Is it pinned at 5% forever? If so, thats going to require some reslotting on my Kheld, sigh. . .
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Passives keep "reactivating" themselves every few seconds or so (10s for Umbral Aura/Absorption), so the mez resistance will go up to 25% in relatively short time (around 40s for Absorption).
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<snip>This means that the speed that the buff bar info displays for Hover includes the real Hover buff + 2 * base Fly Speed, and that the info for Fly includes the real Fly buff + 4 * base Fly Speed.
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Thanks Gazer, that matches what I'm seeing too and it explains it in a much more readable manner than I ever could of done. 
Maybe you should send pohsyb a quicky note about it? It looks like he's been monitoring this thread, but he might not be now that we've gone live with it . . .
6000+ levels gained and 8 level 50's
Hello, my name is Soulwind and I have Alt-Itis.
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I would agree if something was broke, but since nothing was broke, nothing needed fixing
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You are either being disingenuous or else are very clueless. There was a massive exploit there, and I'm really glad it's fixed now.
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I know exactly how it worked, and in my opinion nothing was wrong.
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Then you have a very clueless and completely out-of-touch opinion.
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Please tell me why that is so, because my opinion isn't the same as yours?
I forgot your opinion and outlook on the game is the only one that counts.
*wish they had a shaking head smiley*
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You're entitled to your opinion, even when it's wrong 
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Quote:
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I am playing my lvl 50 WP/EM tank. With nothing turned on I have a base regeneration rating of 1.93%/sec 55.47hp/sec. I turn on Rise to the Challenge (with no mobs around) my numbers do not change. I then jump into a group of CoTs. my 1.93% jumps up a lot. I finish off the group I was fighting and take a rest. My 1.93% now reads 1.83%. I check to make sure I have no de-buffs on me and I do not. After about 15 seconds it returns to the base of 1.93%
I do not know what to make of this. Is this accurate? Is my regen rate supposed to go below baseline after I kill a group? is it just reporting incorrectly?
any help would be appreciated.
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Hmm, that's weird.
Did you verify that the reduction came from RttC, or is it possible that it was some other Regen buff that was reduced?
You seem to have a lot of other Regen buffs, what are they?
Base Regen is .42 %/s, so your 1.93%/s represents a Regen buff of 363%
If we subtract 3-slotted Health and Fast Healing from that, we're still left with an additional 139%.
The two +Regen procs would add 45% to that, leaving 94%.
Had you zoned recently? The +Regen procs will double-stack for 2 minutes after zoning. That'd leave 49%.
You could get that much (or more) from set bonuses.
If you do have one or more of the +Regen procs (Numina, Regenerative Tissue), where are they slotted?
When was the last time you zoned before the fight, and did you zone between the fight and taking the measurements?
Do you remember what you fought in that spawn?
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I was fighting a group of CoT "Scientists" and a demon Lt. in the Portal Corp parking lot. was actually just looking at my regen bonus with RttC on and noticed the change.
I had been in the zone for a while so I do not think that the bonuses were stacking, and even if they were, why did my regen go down and then back up? I have repeated this experiment about 10 times, always with the same result. I even went to Perez Park and jumped into a group of Skulls, my regen went up dramaticly, then dropped to 1.83% (always the same) and then went back up after about 15 seconds.
I am positive that I had no remaining de-buffs listed on my buff/de-buff bar.
I do not know if RttC was the problem, or if it was something else. I simply mentioned RttC because it causes a large bonus to my regeneration rate, and should be the only variable in the equation (I *think*) and so is the likely culprit, but I am more than willing to admidt that I am confused here.
This is my build, all IOs listed are exacly what I have slotted (all levels are correct, even which slot for each IO in a power is correct) It is an expensive build, with a lot of bonuses stacked. All accolades are also listed correctly.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.30
http://www.honourableunited.org.uk/mhd.php
Wrend: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Willpower
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx:34(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg:34(3), Numna-Heal:34(7), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:32(21), ImpArm-ResDam:31(25), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:25(31)
Level 1: Barrage -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:36(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:37(45), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:37(45), Mako-Dam%:36(45), T'Death-Dam%:40(48), Hectmb-Dam%:50(48)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:35(A), ImpArm-ResDam:36(3), HO:Ribo(25), HO:Ribo(37)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:30(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:30(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(5), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(13), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:43(21)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Ksmt-ToHit+:10(A), Jump-I:50(43)
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Mrcl-Heal:30(A), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx:34(9), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:34(9), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:36(11), Numna-Heal:36(31)
Level 10: Air Superiority -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:30(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:30(11), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:30(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(17), T'Death-Dam%:30(19)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(15)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 16: Indomitable Will -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:32(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:32(17), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:32(19), RedFtn-Def:32(36), RedFtn-EndRdx:32(46)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 20: Fast Healing -- Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx:32(A), Mrcl-Heal:32(34), Heal-I:50(37)
Level 22: Heightened Senses -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:32(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg:32(23), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:32(23), RedFtn-Def:32(34), RedFtn-EndRdx:32(46)
Level 24: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:37(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:37(34), Zinger-Dam%:45(43)
Level 26: Whirling Hands -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:32(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:30(27), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:30(27), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(29), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg:45(31), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:47(46)
Level 28: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:40(A), AdjTgt-Rchg:34(29)
Level 30: Health -- RgnTis-Regen+:10(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:34(33), Numna-Heal:34(33), Mrcl-Rcvry+:34(40), Mrcl-Heal:34(43)
Level 32: Strength of Will -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(33)
Level 35: Energy Transfer -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:38(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:38(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:38(36), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:38(37), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:38(39), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:43(42)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:41(A), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:41(39), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:41(39), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:43(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:41(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:42(42)
Level 41: Fly -- Flight-I:50(A), Flight-I:50(42)
Level 44: Recall Friend -- Range-I:50(A)
Level 47: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(48)
Level 49: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx:50(A), AdjTgt-ToHit:50(50), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(50), GSFC-Build%:50(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth:34(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
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[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]+14% DamageBuff[*]+3% Defense(Smashing)[*]+3% Defense(Lethal)[*]+3% Defense(Fire)[*]+3% Defense(Cold)[*]+3% Defense(Energy)[*]+3% Defense(Negative)[*]+3% Defense(Psionic)[*]+3% Defense(Melee)[*]+3% Defense(Ranged)[*]+3% Defense(AoE)[*]+1.8% Max Endurance[*]+30% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]+25% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]+5% FlySpeed[*]+122 (10.1%) HitPoints[*]+5% JumpSpeed[*]+MezResist(Immobilize) (Mag 17.6%)[*]+12.5% Recovery[*]+46% Regeneration[*]+2.52% Resistance(Fire)[*]+2.52% Resistance(Cold)[*]+3.13% Resistance(Negative)[*]+5% RunSpeed[/list]
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>| Copy & Paste this data chunk into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
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</pre><hr />
Something else to report: I turned off every toggle I have, waited about 5 minutes in a zone without going anywhere near a mob (top of a building in talos) and then found a group of 3 green Ink Men and a sorcerer at lvl 24ish (do not remember exactly). I jumped in (all toggles still off) and my 1.93% regen rate immediately dropped to 1.83%. I did not attack, they did not hit me at all. I jumped away and about 15 seconds later my regen went back to "normal". I then turned on everything I have and found a group of warriors and proceeded to vent my frustrations. While RttC was on I was noticing a constant change of my regen rate, that is to be expected with RttC as mobs leave the AoE, again my regen dropped. I found a single warrior and jumped next to him and did not kill it. He did not hit me, I stayed right next to him (no other mobs around) and my regen rate would "flicker" from the enhanced level to a lower level (3.08 and 2.87).
It appears that whenever I am near a mob my regen rate goes down, and I do not know why.
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Something else to report: I turned off every toggle I have, waited about 5 minutes in a zone without going anywhere near a mob (top of a building in talos) and then found a group of 3 green Ink Men and a sorcerer at lvl 24ish (do not remember exactly). I jumped in (all toggles still off) and my 1.93% regen rate immediately dropped to 1.83%. I did not attack, they did not hit me at all. I jumped away and about 15 seconds later my regen went back to "normal". I then turned on everything I have and found a group of warriors and proceeded to vent my frustrations. While RttC was on I was noticing a constant change of my regen rate, that is to be expected with RttC as mobs leave the AoE, again my regen dropped. I found a single warrior and jumped next to him and did not kill it. He did not hit me, I stayed right next to him (no other mobs around) and my regen rate would "flicker" from the enhanced level to a lower level (3.08 and 2.87).
It appears that whenever I am near a mob my regen rate goes down, and I do not know why.
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Ok... I started looking closer at this, and the first thing I noticed was that your Regeneration as listed by Mids' did not match up with the Regeneration rate listed by the Combat Attributes window. Mids' lists your total Regeneration as 406%, which should give an Regeneration rate of 4.06*0.42%/s = 1.69%/s, not the 1.93%/(1.83%) you get.
Trying to figure out why, I hopped on my SR Scrapper to see if I could find any similarities. One of the first things I noticed was that both the Numina +Regen/+Recovery proc and the Regenerative Tissue +Regen proc were giving a higher Regeneration rate than expected.
Numina is supposed to be a 20% Regen bonus and Regen Tissue a 25% bonus, which would translate to .2*.42%/s = .08%/s and .25*.42%/s = .11%/s. My procs were listed as .16%/s and .20%/s. The obvious conclusion would be that I had zoned and they were double-stacking, but that was not the case. To verify, I zoned, and *now* they double-stacked, each instance giving the higher than expected values.
I checked some of my other characters with these procs, and most of them showed the expected values. However, one other character also showed these unexpectedly high values.
Time for theorycraft.
What was the common denominator for these characters?
One was a Scrapper, the other a Tanker. Another Scrapper got the expected value for the Regen Tissue.
But... Both of them had the IOs in a power that also was slotted with Heal enhancements. Both of them had close to 100% Heal bonus in these powers.
Theory: Heal enhancements in a power also enhance the Regen buffs given by the Numina and Regenerative Tissue procs slotted in that power.
To check this out, I went over to the Test server, and deslotted some of the regular Heal enhancements. The Regen bonus given by the procs dropped.
[color= yellow]Conclusion: Heal enhancements in a power also enhance the Regen buffs given by the Numina and Regenerative Tissue procs slotted in that power.[/color]
With this knowledge, I could check your expected Regeneration rate again. Your Heal slotting in Health (the power with the procs) was 72.34%, leading to:
(4.06+.7234*(.20+.25))*.42%/s = 1.83%/s, which is the lower of the values you listed.
This leaves the question of where your "extra" .10%/s comes from (1.93%/s - 1.83%/s).
.1%/s corresponds to a 24% Regeneration buff, which is a nice even number.
For instance, it's the same value as 2 12% Regeneration set bonuses (of which you have a few), but I don't know why something like that would kick in sometimes, and sometimes not.
Something else that would give varying Regeneration rates is if you had something that gave you periodic +Heal enhancement buffs, but I don't see anything like that in your powers.
At any rate, it seems like the real question isn't why you get lower Regen when you get near mobs, it's why you get higher Regen when you are not.
Do you think you could look at the sub-headings for Regeneration before/after coming close to a mob? That is, look at how much Regen you get from Health, how much from Fast Healing, how much from the Numina, how much from the Regen Tissue, how much from set bonuses...? That would make it easier to track down the discrepancy.
It seemed very possible that the same issue (the proc bonuses being affected by enhancements) was in effect for the +Recovery procs (Numina, Miracle) too, so I copied my Warshade over to Test and moved some slots around.
With the Numina +Regen/+Recovery slotted into Stygian Circle (Health/End boost), the Recovery given by the Numina did indeed increase when EndMod enhancements were also slotted in the power.
[color= yellow]Conclusion: EndMod enhancements in a power also enhance the Recovery buff given by the Numina (and probably also Miracle) procs slotted in that power.[/color]
This isn't quite as much of an issue since there are not many powers that accept both Heal sets and EndMod enhancements, but there are a few...
It also turns out that both the +Regen and the +Recovery in Numina is affected by the relative level of your target if it is slotted in a power that targets a foe. That is, if you use the power on a foe of lower level than you, the +Regen and +Recovery you get is increased, and if you use it on a foe of higher level, it is decreased. This is probably not desired behaviour (such behaviour was in the past removed from most buff powers that targeted a foe, such as Claws/Follow Up). This also seems to affect other proc buffs. For instance, Lohenien noted that if you slot a Kismet: +ToHit into one of the Sword set Parry powers, the magnitude of the ToHit buff is affected by the relative level of your target. I would suggest a pass through all of the buff procs to make sure that their effect does not vary with the relative level of your target.
Pennelope also noted that the +Regeneration/+Recovery buff given by Dominator/Psionic Assault/Drain Psyche seems to suffer from the buffs scaling with the relative level of your foe.
I have not gotten a chance to look into this further yet, had a busy day (baby turns 2 on the 15th ) but I should have time to play around tomorrow night, will post my findings then.
Stargazer, thanks a lot for your help on this, it is much appreciated.
While we are talking about Real Numbers, why dont you indulge me and tell me the Real NO BS Numbers. I dont give a hoot how many characters have ever been created. That means absolutely nothing when compared to how many active accounts have 50s.
*Sure 80 billion characters have been created.. Who cares? Half of those were created on peoples accounts that have long since quit playing the game.. or they were on Trial accounts that never got turned into a paying account..
I want to know How many 50s are in the game On Active Accounts. Active meaning have not missed a payment in 6 months +.
I want to know How many 50s are in the game on all the rest of the accounts.
I want to know how many people are logged on to each server for a 24 hour increments of each hour. Like this:
Server Justice
1am - 120 accounts
2am - 115 accounts
3am - 89 accounts
4am - 12 accounts
All the way through 24 hours for all servers. On a Saturday and then another one on a Wednesday.
I also want to know for a 24 hour period on all servers which zones are the most populated on the Off Hours, meaning Not Peak EST times.
Kthanks
i really like the new combat attributes window. but i have some suggestions (may have been said before, not sure):
please separate the set IO +movement bonuses from our base powers. this led to me mistakenly bug them, until i did ouroboros with my enhancements turned off and realized they worked, but are buffing my base speeds without a separate line, like most other IO bonuses.
please add end cost/second for active toggle powers. knowing how much end you're recovering is great, but seems kinda useless unless you know how much you're using up. i realize they are "ticks" and not continuous, but even an average would be nice.
other than that, i love seeing when my BU proc in BU hits by the damage buff, or how much FS is buffing me, how much ghosts are debuffing my tohit, as well as when ive hit the speed caps with siphon speed.
50: Ill/Kin(A+,R,J)-1047 badges RE/Dark(A) Fire/Elec Warshade BS/Regen Necro/Poison Ice/Fiery(A+) Son/Son Bane(A) FM/DA(A) DM/Nin Grav/Icy
lvling: Inv/EM DM/Sheild Arch/MM Bane NW Elec/Earth Grav/Elec Elec/FA Rad/Ice
Paragon Elite/Rogue Elite Joined Oct 2004
<QR> I skipped the first 12 pages, but...I was wondering on the Personal Info pop up window in the game, at the bottom it shows the "Tiny bonus to XXX resistance", "Large bonus to XXX resistance", "Large hit point bonus" etc.
Any chance we can get those numbers in there instead of "Tiny, Large"..etc.
Sorry if this has been posted, if so I second!
Well it is a start. Now publish all the base #'s for the game, so we can really do something with this new info!!
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# Combat Channel (found on the Chat tabs)
* Hit rolls have been added to the text in the combat channel.
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This helps A LOT! I would like to also ask that the hit rolls be placed in their own "channel" -- general combat channel is full of a lot of spam (like when my power recharges).
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# Combat Channel (found on the Chat tabs)
* Hit rolls have been added to the text in the combat channel.
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This helps A LOT! I would like to also ask that the hit rolls be placed in their own "channel" -- general combat channel is full of a lot of spam (like when my power recharges).
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If you remember from the discussions about the Rikti Invasion Alert spams, there are no more channels available to use for new messages. They have to use what's already there to communicate any new info they allow us to see. Putting it in the combat channel is as good as they can do without rewriting a huge amount of code.
Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.
<QR>
Excellent addition to the game! My only complaint about it so far is that it doesn't give me any data on how my toggles affect the recovery rate.
It is of next to no value for me to know how much endurance I recover per second without also deducting my current usage from toggles. Right now it in effect just gives me a recovery rate Gross, without any figures to find my recovery rate Net. The gross figure is of very little value.
For example, my PB in Nova form gets a boost to Recovery, but it also burns endurance. By adding the former to my recovery stat without also deducting the latter, it makes it look like Nova gives me a net boost, when in fact the one essentially just offsets the other.
I'd like to see every activated toggle listed under Recovery Rate, subtracting from the totals.