TheFrog's Guide to Making an Insightful Post v1.1
By
BadStorm,
Posted on: 2008-01-30 13:17 in Player Guides
tl;dr
Just kidding - you knew someone would do it. 
This is a lot of very good advice. It would be nice if it were common sense, but I guess common sense isn't so common, and lots of folks - myself included - would be well advised to consider it more often.
My postings to this forum are not to be used as data in any research study without my express written consent.
tl;d... Dangit! 
Thanks Frog...you have spoken wisely. 
Chairwoman of Infinity's Federal Reserve
dUmb's Secretary to the Undersecretary of the Assistant Department Chief of Whatnot.
Thetan Protector, Starbucks Lover & dUmb attache
Can we get this stickied on every forum?
PLEASE!!!!!!!!
Pax
If you take time to help others, you help yourself grow.
If you take time to help yourself, you realize how far you have to go.
If you take time for chocolate . . . you've discovered the secret to a happy life
!GL & be safe in game & real life!
*hug*
Pax
Very nice, Frog-of-my-heart.
Your idea sucks because:
[*]Itemized list.
I'm kidding; well done. I think you covered the major points very nicely. You may want to come up with an abridged version for some of the real "tl;dr" people, since they would benefit from this, too. (Because, remember, "tl;dr" never applies to the writer. People will happily compose eleventy-billion word posts of their own, all the while refusing to read more than 10 words of anyone else's idea.)
~Missi
http://tinyurl.com/yhy333s
Miss Informed in 2016! She can't be worse than all those other guys!
OK, whoever stoled TheFrog's account please give it back and stop posting serious-ness.
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OK, whoever stoled TheFrog's account please give it back and stop posting serious-ness.
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Hey now, I am allowed on occasion...sometimes I have more than necromancy and silliness going on...I just tend to get better response from the silliness.
And MissInformed makes an excellent point about brevity...I truly wish I could have shrunk the OP down for that very reason, but there are some things that simply require a lot of words to say.
This post should be added as an addendum (woo! alliteration!) to my own post of a similar vein.
Asking people to think was already making things way too complicated, unfortunately
Rational thinking on the internet?
That's like Libertarianism. Looks great on paper, but introduce the human factor and, goodbye!
Self Proclaimed KING of Radiation
My Post count is > Dave Winfield
The Smoking Lounge. Saturdays @ Midnight on The Switch
<QR>
A thread like this needs to kept where it can be seen.
Remember kids, reading is fundamental. Especially on the forums.
Perhaps branded onto the Sclera of all forumgoers.
QR
Weatherby_Goode - "Heck, Carrion Creepers negates the knockdown from Carrion Creepers."
+1 would read again
The Official Resident Fanboi of dUmb
Always Allow/Disallow Mystic Fortune Prompt!
PCSAR
Wow...been a while since I'd checked on the responses here. Thanks for the positive input...feel free to let me know if you think I missed anything, and I'll update
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This post should be added as an addendum (woo! alliteration!) to my own post of a similar vein.
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Kept thinking of your post as I was reading Froggie's.
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This post should be added as an addendum (woo! alliteration!) to my own post of a similar vein.
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Actually his was first. Yours should be the Addendum...
[color=gold][b][size=5]♪ Sometimes you feel like a Tank, Sometimes you don't! ♪[/size][/color][/b]
[url=http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114726][color=black][b][size=5]Moon [color=red]Hazard [color=black]Zone![/size][/color][/color][/color][/b][/url]
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This post should be added as an addendum (woo! alliteration!) to my own post of a similar vein.
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No. 2 reason come to mind.
1. Your post was made a full 2 months after this glorious piece by TheFrog and by all rights yours would be an addendum to this should such action be warranted. Which provides a great seguay to #2.
2. You've made an error in concluding that the two hold significant similarity. While you touch on a topic or two there is significant distinction to keep the posts seperate.
----
To the powers that be: Sticky this now! The OP has done a masterful job of illustrating how to post without coming across as obnoxious (which he is but that's between you and me).
I'm obnoxious? Why didn't anyone tell me?
In all seriousness, thanks for the vote of confidence. As I said in the OP, I know a great many people associate me with unbridled silliness, but I would much prefer folks to think of this when they think of me. I DO have a brain, but the silliness takes a lot less time to type and prevents me from getting bored at work. But now I have an addendum...
Post coming soon!
The Response
Recent days have reminded me that many of the points I have made about making an insightful post remain true when making an insightful response. The problem seems to be that very few of us really have the time to do this since we're usually burdened with work or some other such occupation which limits our ability to give he type of response warranted by the original post. Here's a few words of advice regarding responses.
Please read as much of the thread as possible.
OK, I know you're pressed for time - we all are, but so many times the point you are trying to make has already been addressed, and you can come across as a great deal more ignorant than you are if you're not on top of things. One of the first things you might want to pay attention to is post dates. Speaking as a former forum necromancer, I know there are people out there that drag things up from the depths just for sheer amusement.
Also, with so much information running around on the forums, a great many of us have taken to simply scanning posts, in an attempt to get the general idea of what's going on. This is all well and good for most occasions, but if the post sparks some sort of emotional response in you, then this simply won't do. If you read something that upsets you, take a moment to read it rather than just skim it to make sure you've truly understood what's being said. Many good topics have degenerated into flame wars over simple misunderstandings.
Limit your use of abbreviations
Let's think about this, for a moment...when the thread is jovial, I can understand bringing the lolz and the /jranger. But if you REALLY have something to say, a simple QFT really isn't much of a contribution, is it? And while it DOES show your support of the ideas previously presented, does it truly tell the world how intelligent and on top of the issue you are? Does it give any indication that you truly understand the information that has been presented to this point? Not really. Now, I won't deny that it DOES save on time, but anything that deserves a legitimate response from you deserves the time and attention you could give it when you get home from work or whatever.
As always, reread!
And I don't just mean your message, but the message you're responding to. Make sure once again you didn't misunderstand what you've read, and look for any sign that your message might end up being misconstrued. It also gives you a chance to calm down a bit, which always helps your posting, because sadly, emotion tends to be the enemy of a clear message. Granted, you're going to feel some way about what you're saying, otherwise you wouldn't take the time to say it, but loading a post with all the venom you can muster isn't going to do you any good, as people will read the venom and not the message.
Final words
Is this much different from making an insightful post? No, not really...but the traps are a lot easier to fall into. You read something, and you feel the need to say something about it while it's fresh in your mind. And for most cases, this is all well and good. Just remember, if you're wanting to make a lasting impression you might want to be a bit more careful than normal!
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Granted, you're going to feel some way about what you're saying, otherwise you wouldn't take the time to say it, but loading a post with all the venom you can muster isn't going to do you any good, as people will read the venom and not the message.
[/ QUOTE ]
This, exactly. If you spit bile on the crowd, all they'll see you for is the bile spitting.
[ QUOTE ]
The Response
Recent days have reminded me that many of the points I have made about making an insightful post remain true when making an insightful response. The problem seems to be that very few of us really have the time to do this since we're usually burdened with work or some other such occupation which limits our ability to give he type of response warranted by the original post. Here's a few words of advice regarding responses.
Please read as much of the thread as possible.
OK, I know you're pressed for time - we all are, but so many times the point you are trying to make has already been addressed, and you can come across as a great deal more ignorant than you are if you're not on top of things. One of the first things you might want to pay attention to is post dates. Speaking as a former forum necromancer, I know there are people out there that drag things up from the depths just for sheer amusement.
Also, with so much information running around on the forums, a great many of us have taken to simply scanning posts, in an attempt to get the general idea of what's going on. This is all well and good for most occasions, but if the post sparks some sort of emotional response in you, then this simply won't do. If you read something that upsets you, take a moment to read it rather than just skim it to make sure you've truly understood what's being said. Many good topics have degenerated into flame wars over simple misunderstandings.
Limit your use of abbreviations
Let's think about this, for a moment...when the thread is jovial, I can understand bringing the lolz and the /jranger. But if you REALLY have something to say, a simple QFT really isn't much of a contribution, is it? And while it DOES show your support of the ideas previously presented, does it truly tell the world how intelligent and on top of the issue you are? Does it give any indication that you truly understand the information that has been presented to this point? Not really. Now, I won't deny that it DOES save on time, but anything that deserves a legitimate response from you deserves the time and attention you could give it when you get home from work or whatever.
As always, reread!
And I don't just mean your message, but the message you're responding to. Make sure once again you didn't misunderstand what you've read, and look for any sign that your message might end up being misconstrued. It also gives you a chance to calm down a bit, which always helps your posting, because sadly, emotion tends to be the enemy of a clear message. Granted, you're going to feel some way about what you're saying, otherwise you wouldn't take the time to say it, but loading a post with all the venom you can muster isn't going to do you any good, as people will read the venom and not the message.
Final words
Is this much different from making an insightful post? No, not really...but the traps are a lot easier to fall into. You read something, and you feel the need to say something about it while it's fresh in your mind. And for most cases, this is all well and good. Just remember, if you're wanting to make a lasting impression you might want to be a bit more careful than normal!
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TLR
Recent events have led me to see a few more issues that need to be addressed, so I thought I might make add a few insights as far as responses go.
Respond to the post, not the person posting
You might very well now the person on the other side of the keyboard, but the vast majority of the people reading your post most likely do not. Does this mean you should inform the public of all your dealings with this person? No, you're trying to make clear your own insights and opinions. Surely the person you've responded to has made some points, so deal with those, otherwise it looks like a personal attack, which has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Why should I take the time to hear what you have to say when you're just perpetuating a grudge? Over time, with enough of these types of responses, no one will ever listen to what you have to say, which is unfortunate, as everyone has something to contribute, although not on every issue.
Ignore personal attacks
This goes hand in hand with my last point - there's no reason to respond to derogatory statements aimed directly at you, as they serve no purpose in furthering your argument. By completely (by which I mean not even acknowledging an attack in the first place), not only do you maintain the focus of your message, but you weaken the argument of whoever attacked you. Credibility is established when you prove that you are above petty bickering and devoted to your goals, while it is lost when you cloud your words with statements designed solely to lash out at others. Don't even bother with statements like, "It's good to know that <insert name here> has to resort to personal attacks, but I'll stay on topic." This is the same as a personal attack, it's just a different way of wording it, and by trying to prove you're above that sort of thing, you've just demonstrated that you're not. If a message is solely filled with a personal attack, then it's not even worth responding to at all.
Quoting
This can be an effective method when dealing with specific points, but I recommend being conservative in their use. People have already read the original message, and being burdened with too much of the same can try anyone's patience. Plus, when you dissect a message piece by piece, it begins to look like a veiled attack on the original poster, and can cloud your message. While I appreciate the need at times to target certain portions of the message to avoid confusion, if there's so much there that you feel needs to be addressed that you find yourself pulling out more than three or four sections of it, you probably ought to just consider the post as a whole and divide your response into paragraphs for clarity. Perception of an attack, even if that's not what you intended, can be every bit as damaging to your position as an actual attack.
Conclusion
There are a lot of heated discussions going on right now, and I know how easy it can be to get swept up in the moment. But consider who it is that you're trying to reach, so that you know your message will be heard. A lot of people right now want the developers to listen to what they have to say - if that's the case, then you don't want to get bogged down with personal reprisals, as I can promise you they will lose patience and not hear what you are trying to say. If you are trying to convince other players that your ideas are sound, then know that you will never be able to convince everyone, and just because your idea is not well received doesn't mean that they necessarily disrespect the person behind the idea. You are not your argument...your argument is just one of the many things that make you who you are.
OK, most of the people who know me know me for my silliness, but this is in all seriousness. Ive seen too many people who have really good ideas get flamed for poor presentation, and I think its important to point out the dos and donts of making a meaningful post on the forums. Feel free to point out any detail that you think Ive missed, but these are truths that Ive come across in my experiences with broadcasting, interpersonal communication, and public speaking, and I think deserve mention.
Think!
This seems rather obvious, but goes beyond what you may be expecting. First off, what made you want to post in the first place? A lot of times, theres a strong emotion attached to your topic, and it may be counter-productive to what youre trying to say. A common area where this problem rears its ugly head is in the PvP vs. PvE debate its an emotional issue, and a great number of people have some very entrenched views on the topic. But slow down a moment and think about what you have to say. Youre not going to change anyones mind if you go on a vicious attack, so moderate your tone. Its not that emotion does not belong in your post, but dont let it overpower your point. Strong emotional content garners a strong emotional response sometimes thats precisely what youre after, but more often then not, what you really want is someone to put some thought into your post. So slow down, think, then move to the next step.
Name your thread appropriately!
Sometimes its OK to give your thread an outrageous name, just to get some attention, but the problem with this tactic is that youve just formed a first impression about yourself, and colored the way the rest of your message will be received. Granted, you may get to skip this step if youre responding to someone elses post, but still, its useful information when reading someone elses thread as you can become aware of the impressions youve drawn about the poster based on their title.
Whatever your reason for concern over a threads title, you should recognize its power. It sets the tone for every word that comes after it. If you want to make a point, then start with the title dont confuse your audience. If you think a power should be made inherent, then say so in the title. Get people to be thinking about it before they read the first word. And while a straightforward title may not convince people of your intelligence, it certainly wont give them a reason to doubt it. I would recommend double checking the title for spelling and clarity, just to be on the safe side.
Present your ideas coherently!
Im a big fan of entering any large posts (like this one) I have into Word or a similar program, simply because it allows me some options. I can spell-check it, I can review it, and I can put it on hold and come back to it later. Sometimes a little break makes all the difference between coming off as a sane and reasonable person, and a complete looney. Using a word processing program lets you ensure that you have organized your thoughts effectively to give your words the biggest impact on the reader. And this is what youre after, surely, otherwise you wouldnt be posting.
Now Ive heard some people argue that spelling and punctuation arent important, as the people on the forums will understand what you mean. This may be true, but its also true that theyre not just evaluating your words theyre evaluating YOU! Im going to be a lot more likely to respect and evaluate someones position if they come across as rational and intelligent. Its only natural. And if I have to struggle through a message, trying to interpret the posters message through bad grammar and poor spelling, then my mood is going to deteriorate, and my emotions are going to interfere with me hearing what the poster has to say. Also, be sure to re-read it after the spell-checker has done its thing. It can miss some things that giving the post another once-over might catch. When writing this guide, I fell victim to this, myself, and am fortunate a friend caught the mistake and pointed it out to me.
So, use Word or something similar to compose yourself, if youll pardon the pun, then copy and paste the message to the boards. It will help you remove unnecessary emotion, it allows you to spell-check, and even gives you a chance to step back and evaluate if this is worth saying to begin with.
In Closing
This doesnt apply to the majority of posts youre going to write on the forums. Quick responses have their place, and you wont see me going through all this for my latest post in Kitty Court. This also will not guarantee every response on your thread will be logical, well-reasoned counter-debate. But I do promise that youll get a far more positive response then you would have otherwise, and will most probably begin a very solid discussion that will encourage intelligent response. Remember, in everyday communications, we get 50% of the speakers meaning through body language, 40% through tone of voice, and only 10% through the actual words. Since weve cut out 90% of our cues, we have to be careful if we want to be clear to our intended audience. Hope I didnt bore you too much!