Base Bugs/Concerns List--by Mad Scientist

MCG_Warface · 08-27-2007 03:58 PM

The Base Bugs, Issues and Questions list.

BUGS only:

1. FX on defenses are broken: pain field, force field, stealth suppressor, etc. (you can place them initially and see it, then if moved it disappears---may dissapear over time) Field items broken - Pain Field, Slow Field, etc, all are not functioning since Issue 8.

2. It appears that the style from the adjoining room attaches itself to HALF of the doorway. so if I have two rooms with different wall styles then the doorway will have two different wall styles split right down the middle.

3. The vault can be finicky about control/power can't be in the red like the porters--may quit working. If placed too high on wall, hand wont appear.

4. Teammate base kick bug: With latest patches, Teammates zone in for about half a second, then zone out again. Coalition members were able to load into the base properly. This seems to be the same issue of "players needlessly kicked from bases" or however it got phrased when it was patched long ago. The first base kick bug that was fixed. This is not the kick bug that randomly tossed you out of a base while you were standing around, that seems to still be OK.

5. Tesla Cage not available. (not a bug--but in list)

6. Generator Curtain wont attach and function.

7. Robo Surgery wont attach and function.

8. When you move a bin, that the items placed in the bin forget who placed those Items in the bin? It also flips the contents when you move the bin. Bins also forget ownership after a certain amount of transactions. Seems there's a short list and things drift off it. does it coincide with the length of the log? for that matter, is it a problem that the log has a finite life? I mean, sure, it can't be infinite, but perhaps it should be measured in time and not in actions.

9. Editing a pre-existing room, changed its lighting, most of its textures, its colors, causing rest of the base to take on features of this room! DID NOT HIT the "apply to base" ---one known occurance of bug.

10. Lingering base kick bug on zone-in - Very occasionally, a player zoning in to the base will be disconnected from the game with the "servers are shutting down" message. (I've personally seen this post-I9. Others have reported it on both Live and Test.) Generally, though, base kicking seems resolved, thank you very much!

11. Salvage drop bugs
- Shivans seem to be using the generic drop table (like Rularuu use), that means they're not dropping the Shivan Ectoplasm and Bone Fragments used in the "Make this from Shivan salvage" recipes.
- Freakshow have a recipe listing Cybernetic Charger twice. Should they be dropping Vahzilok Notes (which are called Meat Doctors savlage in their description) to use in half of that recipe?
- Carnies seem to have no rare drops. That makes the Carnie Expert recipes a real bargain, but makes Carnies very poor sources of salvage.

12. Prestige Lag - The total prestige you have sometimes doesn't update when you sell items, or it can go negative. It corrects itself after a while, but causes large delays in editing and occasional panic.

CONCERNS

1. High Priority items.
2. General base usage.
3. Editor.
4. Base Items.
5. Salvage and Crafting.

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 1 - High Priority. The top priority.....(work in progress)

0. Who's in charge here? - Is there a member of the Dev team responsible for bases? Can we please get some regular presence in this forum?

1. Robosurgury and the Generator curtain not attaching - Issue 8 broke the Rez Rings so they no longer accept Aux items.

2. Cathedral of Pain - What's the ETA for this? What exactly went wrong the first time? There's been a lot said about this in this forum about the IOPs and Scheduled Raids, will the design be revised or will there simply be a mechanical fix just for the trial?

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 2 - General base issues

Upkeep overpayment - it's possible to rebill your upkeep every 2 weeks, essentially tripling what you have to pay. This is unfair because most people don't know how to use the system optimally. As a result, groups go thru a bit of fuss to avoid overpaying.

75 character roster limit - this is a base issue as well as a SG issue because much of the base system was designed around the assumption that SGs were up to 75 players. Given the SG interface and the nature of players usign Alts, it's almost impossible to manage 75 people in one SG. That means that a lot of base-related costs are not coming out balanced.

Inf -> Prestige - The current exchange rate is 500:1. A level 50 (so someone with maximum Inf generation) "converts" at a rate around 100:1 when toggling in and out of SG Mode. Seems the Register is a bit too far off to make converting Inf useful. How about 200:1?

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 3 - Base Editor Issues

People don't get perimssion to edit their bases - The vast majority of COH players can not utilize the base editor. They either are in a small SG with few resources to edit with, or a large SG that witholds edit permission to a few members. This is a huge contributor to bases being unpopular. What can be done to get more people editing? There seems to be 2 main reasons people deny base edit capability: 1) bases being rendered unusable, and 2) items being deleted permanently.
The solution to the first problem could be to give out base edit permission that only allowed touching decorative items and room colors/patterns. Then the base won't turn off by someone deleting the mainframe. The teleporters won't get disabled by someone moving all the beacons to another room. Full access to base design (funcitonal items, add/remove rooms) can be a separate permission. Base Design vs Base Contruction.
(I'll talk about the 2nd issue in the crafted items section.)

Door problems - The base editor is rather dumb when it comes to finding a location for a door, preventing a lot of room placements without first clearing the entire wall of adjacent rooms. The editor is not very clear on WHAT is blocking a door, so you pretty much have to delete and rebuild everything. When moving rooms, the editor forces ALL adjoining walls to have a valid doorway (as opposed to when placing, which requires only 1 door), which can cause even bigger rebuild issues.

Moving the entrance - If the entrance is the only room on the plot, you can not move it normally. The editor doesn't find a room to attach it to in the new position. You can move the plot around it, but that's not very intuitive. Improve the Move Room AI. (Though as a quick solution, greying out the Move Room button would at least suggest to people to look for a solution elsewhere instead of trying and failing to move the room.)

Apply Room Style to Base - If I had a dollar for every time I applied the wrong room's style and wished for an undo button... How many bases use the same one style anyways? Possible solution: Copy+Paste Styles instead. Another possible solution: When placing a new room, copy the style of the room you're standing in, thus reducing the amount of times you have to update a style.

Removing floor/ceiling trim - Is it just buggy, or is there a reason it's not possible? Why not create an invisible 1-pixel wide trim that we can select?

Hidden Hitboxes - It's tough to place items in a room if you can't see existing hitboxes unless you run over them. It's also tough to judge what is a valid location in front of a doorway. When a doorway can't be placed because of a blocking item, that item should get highlighted.

Stacking items - Why can't we stack on top of bookcases? They're flat. Should we be able to stack on top of the 2-level Counters? (and why are there 2 sets of items named Counters on 2 tabs?) The lower shelf of the counter may not be stackable because it's inside the item's hitbox - is that a necessary setup or can it be improved? Floor Tile of all types (Linoleum, E-Z Flooring, SG logo stuff) can't take stacking at all, that seems kind of silly especially for the larger tile pieces that can't work around other stuff.

Unusual hitboxes - Some items have hitboxes that make little sense, especially in connection with doorways. The Arcane Platforms can block a door, even though the door level can be raised above the platform height. The AES has a huge hitbox, preventing doors from existing on opposite sides of its room, yet you can walk right thru it. The ceiling-mounted Spike Ring has a similar issue with being a large block of mostly empty space.

Using storage repaints the base - By itself that's annoying, but if you're in the designer and someone uses storage it "resets" what you're doing, dropping any item you were dragging. Basically it's impossible to edit while someone's in the base with you.

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 4 - Base Item Issues

Storage issues
- Storage needs to be sorted. Even if it's just one default sort like the stores use and not customizable, it would be an improvement.
- Storage permissions do not match how the majority of players want to use storage. People want to make some Enhancements more secure than other Enhancements, and so on for each type. Ideally, permissions for each storage bin itself would be useful. Short of that, a 2nd tier of access permissions (ie: a set of Secure storage objects) would cover most security permutations. People often suggest permissions by type, but setting all enhancers more secure than all inspirations still doesn't solve the issue of wanting some enhancers more secure than others. In general, we have many ranks of the SG, why is storge security simply all-or-nothing? Can't we give permission to take some stuff but not other stuff?
- Why can't we store Invention Salvage? This was called Salvage, put in the Salvage Inventory, and people expected it to be treated like the rest of the salvage. What's the problem here?
- Can we have Recipe storage? People would like to pool ther recipes to share with their SGs.
- Lack of more personal storage. eg, use the Salvage Vault for any type of inventory. I mention this as a base issue because the lack of this function makes people try to retask the shared SG Storage as personal storage. That then leads to problems such as loss of items (people not comprehending that it's shared storage space), or people favoring the SG-of-1 to get personal enhancement storage, thus having fewer large bases in play.

Grandville beacon artwork - Both the tech and arcane version use the "wrecked" artwork.

Combat Logs pretty wimpy - in light of stashing the same insps into storage, it doesn't seem worth the effort to unlock this item, or to bother paying Prestige/Energy/Control for it. It needs a boost. Maybe expand its inventory?

Missing SG Logos on some items - A visual summary is here.
- Bomb, Globe, Lightning 2 and the letter X show up as the Biohazard logo.
- The number zero shows up as the Globe
- Club, Diamond 1, Hourglass, Ornate 2, and Shield 1 are not visible at all.

Roundabout SG Logo changes - It's possible to place a banner in any color with any logo, but you need to edit your SG Settings to do that. Seems a bit of a fuss, why can't this be done directly? One suggestion: make these as crafted items, using a costume designer style interface.

Mission Computer doesn't offer other missions except for strike force on villain side - Can this be any more useful? At the very least, would a SG version of Newspaper/Scanner missions be easy to code? (See the Base Item wishlist for more ideas.)

Tech vs Arcane inequalities
- The Supercomputer fits in a 2x2 room, Orbits of Control does not.
- The AES fits in a 4-wide space, Orrey needs 5 and so needs a room costing much more than the tech version.
- Arcane Raid Teleporter fits into a 2x2 room, Tech Raid Teleporter does not.

What should the Relay do? - The worktable says it reduces control cost, the item itself says +Recharge.

Empowerment Stations still very unpopular - I wonder if the Devs have any data they can share with us about station usage. We have the stations in the base and I can't remember the last time I saw a SG member buff up. Many buffs are too weak to be noticed, and the top level buffs are way too expensive. Perhaps it would help if there was Empowerment Salvage, the way Inventions are going to have their own salvage separate from Base Salvage.

Empowerment helper text says 15 minutes - All powers are an hour, but the long-text descriptions are still off. Short-text says 1 hour.

Too Much Alien Tech - Really, is there anything useful we can do with this stuff? Why not have 1 Special Salvage (from AVs, Taskforces or PVP mission) translate to one Empowerment buff?

Too few workbench spots - With the Invention workbench, a base can't have all 6 other benches at the same time. Why even limit workshop items by plot? Teleport and Medical have no per-plot limits.

Return-to-mission Teleporter Beacon - Is this still in the works?

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 5 - Crafted items and salvage

Permanent Item Loss. - Items should go back into Inventory when removed from the base. This would help groups be more willing to give out base edit permission because no one could grief the base. Considering most of the base system refunds full cost of items, having this small list of items be destroyed is a noticable exception. This could also remove the warning messages when deleting an item, or deleting a room with many crafted items.

Remove "personal" items, make crafted items accessible in the normal editor. - This would solve numerous problems.
- Personal item placement can't be controlled with a permission. It is a form of editing the base. Why can it not be controlled?
- Moving between two editors is annoying. Currently, you drop a personal item and then need to change editors to adjust its position. That's assuming you can even access the full editor after placing the item.
- A SG's crafted items should be accessible by the whole SG, not just by the crafter. This will give the people with base edit permission access to anything that they need to place. Making this inventory visible to the whole SG would solve the issue of "overcrafting", where multiple SG members craft an item not realizing they can't place it yet.

Veterans items spam your personal inventory. - Can these be claimed 1 by one? Perhaps have the Vet badge unlock the recipe on the worktables, like the costume parts do, instead of using award buttons.

Worktable secrecy - Can we see full item stats BEFORE using salvage to craft it?

Too Much Alien Tech - Really, is there anything useful we can do with this stuff? One AV Defeat, Taskforce, PVP Mission yielding 1 Empowerment Buff would seem balanced, and may encourage more use of the empowerment station.

Salvage rarity - We know base salvage does not all drop with equal rarity. There have been attempts to figure out the system. Can this be labeled in-game like Invention Salvage is? This impacts the sale price of the items at the auction house. Components should be color-coded White/Yellow/Orange to indicate their level, Basic/Advanced/Expert. (I'm willing to discuss this further if I knew the exact rarity system. Perhaps the Devs believe the system as coded is a flat rarity?)

What exactly is the drop chance for Salvage? - Positron revealed those numbers for Invention Salvage, can we have them for base salvage?

Salvage buyback price - Base salvage only sells for 100, Invention sells for 250, and base salvage is actually more rare! Components require at least 3 pieces, and should sell for 3 times the dropped salvage price.

5th and Axis recipes - These recipes are unusual in that they use rare salvage for non-Expert components. Seeing as these groups don't exist, I wonder if the recipes were never balanced for the salvage drops. To avoid wasting salvage, can these be deleted? Or made to match Council and Council Empire recipes?

View storage from worktable? - Whatever happened to the feature to use stored salvage from a table? Is that still in the works?

View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com

MadScientist · 08-27-2007 04:10 PM

what happened to my large base bug post? did it get eaten by the forums?

(if it did, I think I have a copy on my desktop.)

MadScientist · 08-27-2007 04:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
5. Tesla Cage not available.

[/ QUOTE ]

We've been told by Positron that they coded some items that are not unlockable yet, so they'd be in place for future badges. (Advanced Holodisplay and Elite Sapper are another 2.)
Though perhaps the probelm is that it's taking too long to get to those badges.

MCG_Warface · 08-27-2007 04:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what happened to my large base bug post? did it get eaten by the forums?

(if it did, I think I have a copy on my desktop.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Please find it Ill add it and put in our DUCKS in ROW thread as a link.

View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com

MadScientist · 08-27-2007 04:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
8. When you move a bin, that the items placed in the bin forget who placed those Items in the bin? It also flips the contents when you move the bin.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bins also forget ownership after a certain amount of transactions. Seems there's a short list and things drift off it. does it coincide with the length of the log? for that matter, is it a problem that the log has a finite life? I mean, sure, it can't be infinite, but perhaps it should be measured in time and not in actions.

I wonder if tracking the contributor is at all worthy outside the log. It loses all meaning as soon as a different person provides the same item. Do people really make use of this info?

as to flipping the contents, I think all bins simply need a sort order.

MadScientist · 08-27-2007 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what happened to my large base bug post? did it get eaten by the forums?

(if it did, I think I have a copy on my desktop.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Please find it Ill add it and put in our DUCKS in ROW thread as a link.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's eaten. let me see about a new post.

MCG_Warface · 08-27-2007 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what happened to my large base bug post? did it get eaten by the forums?

(if it did, I think I have a copy on my desktop.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Please find it Ill add it and put in our DUCKS in ROW thread as a link.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's eaten. let me see about a new post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hurry! Ill add them in here and drag them across.

View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com

johhny230 · 08-27-2007 04:21 PM

oh btw i figured this out the team mate log in bug if u go to the war zone it usually lets the teammate in then

MadScientist · 08-27-2007 04:22 PM

OK, what I had saved in notepad from my last Issues post. (yes, some of it is out of date with I10. like the Fusion Generator.) I'll post this as-is, we can clean it up as needed.

Welcome to the new collected Bugs+Issues thread, updated for I9.
I've added a piece to the title, to draw attention to the number of things we're looking to get a Dev explanation for.

This is for things that are broken. This is not really for wishlist items. I refer you to<ul type="square">[*]The new version of Base Items We'd Like to See for your wishlist "add this to the base" posts.[*]Base editor requests for editor-related wishlists.[*]Supergroup related requests[/list]What's what? I draw the line as this: Would the new items/function speficially address an existing isssue? So, for example, more function on the Mission Computer addresses its uselessness. The lack of personal apartments is not a game issue, so that request is a wishlist item.

I'll include SG issues here where relevant, I'll do an update of my SG Issues thread later. In fact, I think I'll bring that thread to this board, since it's so closely related.

The Base Bugs, Issues and Questions list.
1. High Priority items.
2. General base usage.
3. Editor.
4. Base Items.
5. Salvage and Crafting.

Note that raiding issues are being moved into their own thread, look for that late today. (I'll update with a link when it's up.)

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 1 - High Priority. The top 3 (plus one), based on how often I see discussion of them.

0. Who's in charge here? - Is there a member of the Dev team responsible for bases? Can we please get some regular presence in this forum?

1. Robosurgury not attaching - Issue 8 broke the Rez Rings so they no longer accept Aux items.

2. Fusion Generator - The general feeling is that if this was fixable, it would have been fixed by now. Can the requirement be removed or changed, so we can use this item? (200 PVP-zone missions would be a reasonable requirement, on par with Thwart The Thorns, and about 50 hours of play.)

3. Cathedral of Pain - What's the ETA for this? What exactly went wrong the first time? There's been a lot said about this in this forum about the IOPs and Scheduled Raids, will the design be revised or will there simply be a mechanical fix just for the trial?

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 2 - General base issues

Upkeep overpayment - it's possible to rebill your upkeep every 2 weeks, essentially tripling what you have to pay. This is unfair because most people don't know how to use the system optimally. As a result, groups go thru a bit of fuss to avoid overpaying.

75 character roster limit - this is a base issue as well as a SG issue because much of the base system was designed around the assumption that SGs were up to 75 players. Given the SG interface and the nature of players usign Alts, it's almost impossible to manage 75 people in one SG. That means that a lot of base-related costs are not coming out balanced.

Inf -> Prestige - The current exchange rate is 500:1. A level 50 (so someone with maximum Inf generation) "converts" at a rate around 100:1 when toggling in and out of SG Mode. Seems the Register is a bit too far off to make converting Inf useful. How about 200:1?

Lingering base kick bug on zone-in - Very occasionally, a player zoning in to the base will be disconnected from the game with the "servers are shutting down" message. (I've personally seen this post-I9. Others have reported it on both Live and Test.) Generally, though, base kicking seems resolved, thank you very much!

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 3 - Base Editor Issues

People don't get perimssion to edit their bases - The vast majority of COH players can not utilize the base editor. They either are in a small SG with few resources to edit with, or a large SG that witholds edit permission to a few members. This is a huge contributor to bases being unpopular. What can be done to get more people editing? There seems to be 2 main reasons people deny base edit capability: 1) bases being rendered unusable, and 2) items being deleted permanently.
The solution to the first problem could be to give out base edit permission that only allowed touching decorative items and room colors/patterns. Then the base won't turn off by someone deleting the mainframe. The teleporters won't get disabled by someone moving all the beacons to another room. Full access to base design (funcitonal items, add/remove rooms) can be a separate permission. Base Design vs Base Contruction.
(I'll talk about the 2nd issue in the crafted items section.)

Door problems - The base editor is rather dumb when it comes to finding a location for a door, preventing a lot of room placements without first clearing the entire wall of adjacent rooms. The editor is not very clear on WHAT is blocking a door, so you pretty much have to delete and rebuild everything. When moving rooms, the editor forces ALL adjoining walls to have a valid doorway (as opposed to when placing, which requires only 1 door), which can cause even bigger rebuild issues.

Moving the entrance - If the entrance is the only room on the plot, you can not move it normally. The editor doesn't find a room to attach it to in the new position. You can move the plot around it, but that's not very intuitive. Improve the Move Room AI. (Though as a quick solution, greying out the Move Room button would at least suggest to people to look for a solution elsewhere instead of trying and failing to move the room.)

Apply Room Style to Base - If I had a dollar for every time I applied the wrong room's style and wished for an undo button... How many bases use the same one style anyways? Possible solution: Copy+Paste Styles instead. Another possible solution: When placing a new room, copy the style of the room you're standing in, thus reducing the amount of times you have to update a style.

Removing floor/ceiling trim - Is it just buggy, or is there a reason it's not possible? Why not create an invisible 1-pixel wide trim that we can select?

Hidden Hitboxes - It's tough to place items in a room if you can't see existing hitboxes unless you run over them. It's also tough to judge what is a valid location in front of a doorway. When a doorway can't be placed because of a blocking item, that item should get highlighted.

Stacking items - Why can't we stack on top of bookcases? They're flat. Should we be able to stack on top of the 2-level Counters? (and why are there 2 sets of items named Counters on 2 tabs?) The lower shelf of the counter may not be stackable because it's inside the item's hitbox - is that a necessary setup or can it be improved? Floor Tile of all types (Linoleum, E-Z Flooring, SG logo stuff) can't take stacking at all, that seems kind of silly especially for the larger tile pieces that can't work around other stuff.

Unusual hitboxes - Some items have hitboxes that make little sense, especially in connection with doorways. The Arcane Platforms can block a door, even though the door level can be raised above the platform height. The AES has a huge hitbox, preventing doors from existing on opposite sides of its room, yet you can walk right thru it. The ceiling-mounted Spike Ring has a similar issue with being a large block of mostly empty space.

Using storage repaints the base - By itself that's annoying, but if you're in the designer and someone uses storage it "resets" what you're doing, dropping any item you were dragging. Basically it's impossible to edit while someone's in the base with you.

Prestige Lag - The total prestige you have sometimes doesn't update when you sell items, or it can go negative. It corrects itself after a while, but causes large delays in editing and occasional panic.

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 4 - Base Item Issues

Storage issues
- Storage needs to be sorted. Even if it's just one default sort like the stores use and not customizable, it would be an improvement.
- Storage permissions do not match how the majority of players want to use storage. People want to make some Enhancements more secure than other Enhancements, and so on for each type. Ideally, permissions for each storage bin itself would be useful. Short of that, a 2nd tier of access permissions (ie: a set of Secure storage objects) would cover most security permutations. People often suggest permissions by type, but setting all enhancers more secure than all inspirations still doesn't solve the issue of wanting some enhancers more secure than others. In general, we have many ranks of the SG, why is storge security simply all-or-nothing? Can't we give permission to take some stuff but not other stuff?
- Why can't we store Invention Salvage? This was called Salvage, put in the Salvage Inventory, and people expected it to be treated like the rest of the salvage. What's the problem here?
- Can we have Recipe storage? People would like to pool ther recipes to share with their SGs.
- Lack of more personal storage. eg, use the Salvage Vault for any type of inventory. I mention this as a base issue because the lack of this function makes people try to retask the shared SG Storage as personal storage. That then leads to problems such as loss of items (people not comprehending that it's shared storage space), or people favoring the SG-of-1 to get personal enhancement storage, thus having fewer large bases in play.

Grandville beacon artwork - Both the tech and arcane version use the "wrecked" artwork.

Generator Energy Curtain doesn't attach to 2nd tier generator - bug, or intended design?

Combat Logs pretty wimpy - in light of stashing the same insps into storage, it doesn't seem worth the effort to unlock this item, or to bother paying Prestige/Energy/Control for it. It needs a boost. Maybe expand its inventory?

Missing SG Logos on some items - A visual summary is here.
- Bomb, Globe, Lightning 2 and the letter X show up as the Biohazard logo.
- The number zero shows up as the Globe
- Club, Diamond 1, Hourglass, Ornate 2, and Shield 1 are not visible at all.

Roundabout SG Logo changes - It's possible to place a banner in any color with any logo, but you need to edit your SG Settings to do that. Seems a bit of a fuss, why can't this be done directly? One suggestion: make these as crafted items, using a costume designer style interface.

Field items broken - Pain Field, Slow Field, etc, all are not functioning since Issue 8.

Mission Computer doesn't offer missions - Can this be any more useful? At the very least, would a SG version of Newspaper/Scanner missions be easy to code? (See the Base Item wishlist for more ideas.)

Tech vs Arcane inequalities
- The Supercomputer fits in a 2x2 room, Orbits of Control does not.
- The AES fits in a 4-wide space, Orrey needs 5 and so needs a room costing much more than the tech version.
- Arcane Raid Teleporter fits into a 2x2 room, Tech Raid Teleporter does not.

What should the Relay do? - The worktable says it reduces control cost, the item itself says +Recharge.

Empowerment Stations still very unpopular - I wonder if the Devs have any data they can share with us about station usage. We have the stations in the base and I can't remember the last time I saw a SG member buff up. Many buffs are too weak to be noticed, and the top level buffs are way too expensive. Perhaps it would help if there was Empowerment Salvage, the way Inventions are going to have their own salvage separate from Base Salvage.

Empowerment helper text says 15 minutes - All powers are an hour, but the long-text descriptions are still off. Short-text says 1 hour.

Too Much Alien Tech - Really, is there anything useful we can do with this stuff? Why not have 1 Special Salvage (from AVs, Taskforces or PVP mission) translate to one Empowerment buff?

Too few workbench spots - With the Invention workbench, a base can't have all 6 other benches at the same time. Why even limit workshop items by plot? Teleport and Medical have no per-plot limits.

Return-to-mission Teleporter Beacon - Is this still in the works?

--------------------------------------------------------
Part 5 - Crafted items and salvage

Permanent Item Loss. - Items should go back into Inventory when removed from the base. This would help groups be more willing to give out base edit permission because no one could grief the base. Considering most of the base system refunds full cost of items, having this small list of items be destroyed is a noticable exception. This could also remove the warning messages when deleting an item, or deleting a room with many crafted items.

Remove "personal" items, make crafted items accessible in the normal editor. - This would solve numerous problems.
- Personal item placement can't be controlled with a permission. It is a form of editing the base. Why can it not be controlled?
- Moving between two editors is annoying. Currently, you drop a personal item and then need to change editors to adjust its position. That's assuming you can even access the full editor after placing the item.
- A SG's crafted items should be accessible by the whole SG, not just by the crafter. This will give the people with base edit permission access to anything that they need to place. Making this inventory visible to the whole SG would solve the issue of "overcrafting", where multiple SG members craft an item not realizing they can't place it yet.

Veterans items spam your personal inventory. - Can these be claimed 1 by one? Perhaps have the Vet badge unlock the recipe on the worktables, like the costume parts do, instead of using award buttons.

Worktable secrecy - Can we see full item stats BEFORE using salvage to craft it?

Too Much Alien Tech - Really, is there anything useful we can do with this stuff? One AV Defeat, Taskforce, PVP Mission yielding 1 Empowerment Buff would seem balanced, and may encourage more use of the empowerment station.

Salvage rarity - We know base salvage does not all drop with equal rarity. There have been attempts to figure out the system. Can this be labeled in-game like Invention Salvage is? This impacts the sale price of the items at the auction house. Components should be color-coded White/Yellow/Orange to indicate their level, Basic/Advanced/Expert. (I'm willing to discuss this further if I knew the exact rarity system. Perhaps the Devs believe the system as coded is a flat rarity?)

What exactly is the drop chance for Salvage? - Positron revealed those numbers for Invention Salvage, can we have them for base salvage?

Salvage buyback price - Base salvage only sells for 100, Invention sells for 250, and base salvage is actually more rare! Components require at least 3 pieces, and should sell for 3 times the dropped salvage price.

5th and Axis recipes - These recipes are unusual in that they use rare salvage for non-Expert components. Seeing as these groups don't exist, I wonder if the recipes were never balanced for the salvage drops. To avoid wasting salvage, can these be deleted? Or made to match Council and Council Empire recipes?

View storage from worktable? - Whatever happened to the feature to use stored salvage from a table? Is that still in the works?

Salvage drop bugs
- Shivans seem to be using the generic drop table (like Rularuu use), that means they're not dropping the Shivan Ectoplasm and Bone Fragments used in the "Make this from Shivan salvage" recipes.
- Freakshow have a recipe listing Cybernetic Charger twice. Should they be dropping Vahzilok Notes (which are called Meat Doctors savlage in their description) to use in half of that recipe?
- Carnies seem to have no rare drops. That makes the Carnie Expert recipes a real bargain, but makes Carnies very poor sources of salvage.

--------------------------------------

MadScientist · 08-27-2007 04:55 PM

you know what... if you don't mind, let me review my old post and start it off in a new thread. it will be a lot cleaner at this point.

Ultra_Violence · 08-28-2007 09:24 AM

Bug: Placing 2nd Tech teleporter in 2X2 room is near impossible. The room handles 2 teleporters it should be easy to drop 2 there.

----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.

CaptA · 08-28-2007 10:36 AM

You mean the 2x2 room.

"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21

Guide to Base Teleporters

GenericForumName · 08-28-2007 10:59 AM

<QR>

Moving base item during edit mode. When dragging and dropping an item, why the heck is the editing character often teleported INTO the item, causing the item and the character to both be stuck?

Why is the base redrawn whenever someone puts an echip into storage?

Why does the Scorpion Surprise have 10 aux connections but the hero's version Rikti Plasma Turrets have zero?

Why does the Auto-Doc buy everything except CAB, Awaken and all levels of Breakfree?

What force of nature prevents SG members from accessing their own storage during a base raid?

Why can't the owner of the Turbine Generator click on it to see its health, like one can do with a Basic Generator? Why is only the Turbine Generator untargetable by its owner?

Why does a destroyed teleport beacon not automatically re-attach itself to the teleporter after an instant base raid is over? Why make us delete and replace them manually?

Why does a base raid not end properly, causing the base to be locked out to all coalitions, if the defenders of an instant raid are no longer online when the raid times out after 60 mins?

Why has there been virtually zero communications from Cryptic regarding this and the many other listed issues with bases?

The only thing worse than devs making bad decisions is the hoard of fanboys and bootlickers that keep cheering them on.

Haetron · 08-28-2007 11:02 AM

Absolutely nothing should be higher priority than Cathedral of Pain. Without it, bases are just glorified chat rooms and trams. Its not like the Cathedral of Pain wouldn't be multi-rewarding. It gives bases a purpose, and also gives the PvE/PVP sides of the playerbase something to do.

MCG_Warface · 08-28-2007 11:12 AM

Everyone agrees on that.

I think the rub comes in with a split 50/50 on how people view

1. Forced Raiding if you get an IoP(when the IoP value is so low--i.e. you can get the same effect with IOs without forced raiding)

2. Instant win raid pylons forcing you to reduce size of base

3. Destructable items (though you can mitigate this somewhat)

View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com

PlasmaStream · 08-28-2007 11:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Absolutely nothing should be higher priority than Cathedral of Pain. Without it, bases are just glorified chat rooms and trams.

[/ QUOTE ]

Some of us are fine with that Haet

Issue:

Moving Base rooms once decorated is nigh impossible with a fully decorated room due to "Door Blocking Issues". If it was legal for the previous location it should be legal for the new location.

Issue: Inability to place room and select actual location of door way. The UI Limits location of door based on room location and it can prove difficult to get the door where you want based on the lay out of base already.

@PlasmaStream
"Big Bada Boom(tm)!"
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http://GuardianForce.Guildportal.com - Virtue
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Ultra_Violence · 08-28-2007 03:14 PM

Personally I have no use for raiding since I have a solo base (and no interest in raiding).

I use base mainly for teleporting and as a side amusement. 2 million prestige can build a very decent base and gives you a lot to do for a long time.

----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.

Haetron · 08-28-2007 10:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone agrees on that.

I think the rub comes in with a split 50/50 on how people view

1. Forced Raiding if you get an IoP(when the IoP value is so low--i.e. you can get the same effect with IOs without forced raiding)

2. Instant win raid pylons forcing you to reduce size of base

3. Destructable items (though you can mitigate this somewhat)

[/ QUOTE ]

1. I think that forced raiding is bad. I do think that the rewards should be on a timer, and need occaisonal retrieving, and to encourage PVP, you should be able to get stronger IoPs if you choose to be raidable.

2. No comment on this, since I've yet to actually get a chance to participate in a raid, IoPed or not.

3. Im not a fan of permanently destroyed base items, due to expense, but temporarily disabling as part of a raiding tactic, I dont mind. There should possibly be mitigators that make said items harder to disable.

And, for those that see that bases are fine as-is with being glorified trams/chat rooms, then personally, I don't see bases being a very high priority, because they already serve that purpose just fine, outside of teammate kick bug.

Some more SG TFs from the mission computer might be nice.

Edit: Mind you, that does not mean I dont think actual bugs with how objects should work should not be fixed, it's just, from my own experience, the PvE base functions fine and that there's other things in the game that would really need more attention.

Tempest_56 · 08-28-2007 11:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the rub comes in with a split 50/50 on how people view

1. Forced Raiding if you get an IoP(when the IoP value is so low--i.e. you can get the same effect with IOs without forced raiding)

2. Instant win raid pylons forcing you to reduce size of base

3. Destructable items (though you can mitigate this somewhat)

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much. Would I love to do the CoP? Sure. Would I enjoy the content of it? Definetly. On the other hand...

Do I want to have to re-earn several million prestige because of a raid happening during an off-time for my SG? Do I want to have to tell my entire SG they have to spec into PvP builds just to keep the teleporter network from being obliterated? Do I want to have to tear down the entire base and rebuild it because it has more than ten rooms and that makes defending it from raids nearly impossible? Do I really want to tell my entire SG that to actually play the new content, they have to go out and grind prestige for a couple of months so we can buy more control/a bigger generator/defensive weapons/a Secure plot/etc? Not a chance in the world.

The CoP needs to be fixed, yes. But at this point it's a pointless goal because critical points to make it feasable (such as having more than a tiny number of SGs per server able to survive the concequences of getting it) need to be addressed first. Opening the CoP is meaningless if the main function is to open an SG up to having their base destroyed.

MadScientist · 08-29-2007 07:32 AM

My Issues post above got moved to the Bugs+Issues Draft, which has now been replaced with a more formalized draft for Ex Libris. Here.

Pease direct anything still related to the "by MadScientist" part of this thread to that post instead. Thanks.

MCG_Warface · 08-29-2007 07:56 AM

The draft is looking good. This weekend I will take your draft and put it to a permanant doc incase threads are deleted here.

View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com

MadScientist · 08-29-2007 08:01 AM

Yeah, good idea.

I think we're close to being done. I'd love to have this finished by tomorrow. Right now it has to be good, not perfect, and we're about there.

Maybe you should ask Ex Libris to lock this thread, too, to focus discussion on that new draft?

Ultra_Violence · 08-29-2007 08:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the rub comes in with a split 50/50 on how people view

1. Forced Raiding if you get an IoP(when the IoP value is so low--i.e. you can get the same effect with IOs without forced raiding)

2. Instant win raid pylons forcing you to reduce size of base

3. Destructable items (though you can mitigate this somewhat)

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much. Would I love to do the CoP? Sure. Would I enjoy the content of it? Definetly. On the other hand...

Do I want to have to re-earn several million prestige because of a raid happening during an off-time for my SG? Do I want to have to tell my entire SG they have to spec into PvP builds just to keep the teleporter network from being obliterated? Do I want to have to tear down the entire base and rebuild it because it has more than ten rooms and that makes defending it from raids nearly impossible? Do I really want to tell my entire SG that to actually play the new content, they have to go out and grind prestige for a couple of months so we can buy more control/a bigger generator/defensive weapons/a Secure plot/etc? Not a chance in the world.

The CoP needs to be fixed, yes. But at this point it's a pointless goal because critical points to make it feasable (such as having more than a tiny number of SGs per server able to survive the concequences of getting it) need to be addressed first. Opening the CoP is meaningless if the main function is to open an SG up to having their base destroyed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You quote the reasons I have heard over and over. The groups I have been on all said No way they are ever re-earning prestige. So as far as I was concerned the SGs served no purpose anymore other than chat groups. So I decided to just have fun building a lair for myself.

There are a LOT of people who are afraid of having to re-earn prestige. Much more than 50% I would say.

----------------------------
You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.

MCG_Warface · 08-29-2007 08:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the rub comes in with a split 50/50 on how people view

1. Forced Raiding if you get an IoP(when the IoP value is so low--i.e. you can get the same effect with IOs without forced raiding)

2. Instant win raid pylons forcing you to reduce size of base

3. Destructable items (though you can mitigate this somewhat)

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much. Would I love to do the CoP? Sure. Would I enjoy the content of it? Definetly. On the other hand...

Do I want to have to re-earn several million prestige because of a raid happening during an off-time for my SG? Do I want to have to tell my entire SG they have to spec into PvP builds just to keep the teleporter network from being obliterated? Do I want to have to tear down the entire base and rebuild it because it has more than ten rooms and that makes defending it from raids nearly impossible? Do I really want to tell my entire SG that to actually play the new content, they have to go out and grind prestige for a couple of months so we can buy more control/a bigger generator/defensive weapons/a Secure plot/etc? Not a chance in the world.

The CoP needs to be fixed, yes. But at this point it's a pointless goal because critical points to make it feasable (such as having more than a tiny number of SGs per server able to survive the concequences of getting it) need to be addressed first. Opening the CoP is meaningless if the main function is to open an SG up to having their base destroyed.

[/ QUOTE ]

You quote the reasons I have heard over and over. The groups I have been on all said No way they are ever re-earning prestige. So as far as I was concerned the SGs served no purpose anymore other than chat groups. So I decided to just have fun building a lair for myself.

There are a LOT of people who are afraid of having to re-earn prestige. Much more than 50% I would say.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont lose the prestige, you lose the salvage. If you dont have the salvage-----and want to buy it........then you lose prestige in a sense.

You can mitigate the damage with robotic fabricators......up to 90%??? Cant remember number offhand. But even so, it should just reset, presents too much opportunity to grief people.

View the story of W.A.R.F.A.C.E. and Septimus Bane here: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6785073/1/Meus_Profiteor#
my email chrismfears99@yahoo.com

Doctor_Dude · 10-24-2007 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
4. Teammate base kick bug: With latest patches, Teammates zone in for about half a second, then zone out again. Coalition members were able to load into the base properly. This seems to be the same issue of "players needlessly kicked from bases" or however it got phrased when it was patched long ago. The first base kick bug that was fixed. This is not the kick bug that randomly tossed you out of a base while you were standing around, that seems to still be OK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wandering through the history and look what I bumped into!