A Cautionary Tale Regarding Commissions

Generally, I try to cover all the bases when I ask an artist about potential commissions based on my CoX characters. But as I learnt recently things can go wrong. It's how you deal with them that determines how much hand wringing you actually do.

I contacted an artist on deviantArt back in January to do anime/manga style commissions of my characters and sent off all the information. I requested information on pricing, payment options, and timeframes.

I heard nothing back from this artist until April when he posted a completed picture of my character Albtraum on his website and said he had done so.

This came as a surprise as I had received no prior contact for three months. No discussion on pricing and payment options, and no details on character poses or draft sketches.

The finished commission, while admittedly very good had two flaws with it. The most glaringly obvious one was that the artist had made my female character into a muscle bound male. The second and more important detail was that I had never approved the commission.

This artist is very good. I would love to get commissions from him, but the way this panned out was not good. I got him to withdraw the offending image, told him I wouldn't pay for something I hadn't approved, but did say I still wanted to work with him to bring my characters to life in his unique style.

Unfortunately for me, I may have crushed that hope already.

What I did learn from this is always keep a record of any emails, IM's that you have with an artist. I kept copies of all the correspondence we had and was able to prove we had not progressed much further than the 'considering' your request stage.

I have also made changes to my CoX Character Information Sheet on my deviantArt site to include something that I overlooked when I originally wrote it up. The gender of my characters. As well as gender, I included links to Side, Back and Profile shots to further avoid any future confusion.

Sooner or later, you are bound to have a bad experience dealing with artist commissions. The best thing you can do is to minimize the fallout by making sure you have everything in order.

This was a learning experience for me, a little negative, but also positive as I have improved upon the information I provide now.

And thanks to those of you who have used the CoX Information Sheet as a template for their own heroes and villains.

Yeah, I always make sure to keep copies of all IM's, emails, etc. It's advice everyone should follow!

What was the information you sent him about the character in the first place?

Sorry to hear about this bit of miscomunication. I would like to applaud you on your handling of the situation.
Telling your tale is a good idea to be sure. It also may have been tempting to "name names" which you did NOT do. That was also good.
There is no need to begin some petty campaign against siad artist to express your disappointment. I only bring this up as I have seen it done on these very boards not so long ago. It very quickly degenerated into a flaming of the OP.
Thanks for your story but just as importantly, thanks for your maturity.

I have had many artists show me the finished product without ever showing any WIPs to see if I approved, but I have always gotten great results. Sorry to hear yours went awry.

[ QUOTE ]
What was the information you sent him about the character in the first place?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you click on the link to the CoX Character Information, that is what I sent the artist to consider.

I asked him for pricing, timeframe, payment options and his feedback/comments.

No replies for three months and then out of the blue a finished commission.

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry to hear about this bit of miscomunication. I would like to applaud you on your handling of the situation.
Telling your tale is a good idea to be sure. It also may have been tempting to "name names" which you did NOT do. That was also good.
There is no need to begin some petty campaign against siad artist to express your disappointment. I only bring this up as I have seen it done on these very boards not so long ago. It very quickly degenerated into a flaming of the OP.
Thanks for your story but just as importantly, thanks for your maturity.



[/ QUOTE ]

You're right, the artist is a great person and has real talent. It was the lack of understanding and communication between us that made this a cautionary tale. I have communicated him stating that I do admire his work, would like to work with him, and start again afresh. No response so far. But that's as far as I will take the matter.

As an aside, you know you don't need all that lengthy devianatart stuff at the end of the deviation links. Just the last number before the specific stuff.

This for instance:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/3831...;qh=sort%3Atime

Can be reduced to this:
http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/38310951/
Without losing anything

This does sound like a kind of weird situation. I wonder what on earth the artist had in mind if they could actually *see* the character? Some folks I know of do that arbitrarily - changing anything to male or female, furry, melting, whatever. But usually they *ask* first lol.

Thanks Zekrian, I'll update that form now.

Heh... minor detail, getting the gender wrong. Sounds like you handled the situation better than many of us would have.

yeah I would be slightly miffed if I got back a picture of Dragonberry redesigned as DragonBarry :P

When will FishBerry be done?

[ QUOTE ]
yeah I would be slightly miffed if I got back a picture of Dragonberry redesigned as DragonBarry :P

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't give me ideas.

right after Zaprosberry my fine young man , now fork over your hard earned money while I draw what I think your character should look like without your input :P

Yay! So, that would be... Zapros naked with pink hair?



...



...Please no.

A good cautionary tale. I never commission with someone without trading some emails first. Make sure you know what you are getting before you plop down money.

I have to differ with some on this issue.

Coming from a viewpoint based in the corporate world, I'd have to say that it does nothing to say you had a problem with another person or entity without naming them. If concise statements are made and points are given as to where the service failed, then there is no problem saying hey, I don't like Sprint because their customer service is not very good as an example. If someone said to me hey I had an issue with a particular artist, then I have a good experience with that artist, then I will not worry about that others viewpoint because it has no bearing on my own experience.

What I do see alot is people making knee-jerk reaction rules to protect themselves or their friends. This is not junior high and people are entitled to their own opinions. If Joe doesn't like Tom, but everyone else does like Tom, then let Joe say hey I don't like Tom and either ignore them or ask why without it denegrading into a flame war.

Sometimes, seeing someone rant about another may be nothing more than using a public forum to draw another person out because they are not getting any private communication going on.

Usually doing what e-bay people do solves some of those I don't like this person problems. On e-bay, people leave stat posts to say hey I like this seller or I hate this seller. If a seller has 500 posts and 499 are positive, then I know to that 1 bad comment has no bearing because it's outweighed by the other 499.

Now to put the boot on my foot. If I received the bad comment. Yes, I would be upset depending on the situation. If someone said I took too long to make their art, then I could respond with a statement to answer them. Like most, I would state that I either had a open timeframe or that I had a disclaimer, but that I do have other things in my life besides art and I'm sorry that I could not satify them. Then I'd go about my business because Other people do not mind if I take a few months to complete a piece for them.

Honestly, people are people and everyone will not agree 100%. Also people pick their friends and sometime when you have several friends, some of them won't get along. Doesn't mean you can't like both, but you can try to get them to come to an understanding.

OK, now I'm babbling like my 7 yr old daughter so I'll just finish up by saying I don't think it's all totally bad to name who a person is you are having commish problems with.

Hmm... I think Durs may be right.. It depends on the situation. If someone says "I don't like this artist because of this reason", the other people can check it out and see if they agree. If someone says "I hate this artist because he/she's a jerk!!!!!! FLAME FLAME FLAME!!!!!", that's another story. That just makes people mad, and it's kind of unreasonable. So, I don't think it's a bad thing if you keep it civil, and you're not posting just to insult/personally attack the person.

[ QUOTE ]

Coming from a viewpoint based in the corporate world, I'd have to say that it does nothing to say you had a problem with another person or entity without naming them.

[/ QUOTE ]


I would agree with that statement as well.

I took SMF's post a bit differently though. His post didn't really come across to me as though he was saying. "I had a difficult time with "X" artist so you should be carfeful also."
I took his post to mean that he had an issue of miscommunication that could occur with any artist, and he was advising the community to be cautious in any attempt at commisioning artwork.

Yeah- there are alot of talented people out there who just don't know how to conduct themselves professionally, for whatever reason. Maybe they just don't deal with it often or whatever.

Someone who's accustomed to commissioning or farming out work is often going to be more familiar with the process than many of the artists/designers/etc. they approach with work. Sounds like you mentioned the necessity of approving a bid and getting some creative back and forth, but the artist just didn't understand.

You might have to educate the artist on the business end of their craft in order to do business with them. This is a good thing for people to know about.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Coming from a viewpoint based in the corporate world, I'd have to say that it does nothing to say you had a problem with another person or entity without naming them.

[/ QUOTE ]


I would agree with that statement as well.

I took SMF's post a bit differently though. His post didn't really come across to me as though he was saying. "I had a difficult time with "X" artist so you should be carfeful also."
I took his post to mean that he had an issue of miscommunication that could occur with any artist, and he was advising the community to be cautious in any attempt at commisioning artwork.

[/ QUOTE ]

I too thought SMF's post as sage advice or something that needed to be said to let people know that simple miscommunication can ....prevent a smooth transaction....

But in some cases if someone gives very poor service or just takes the money and run or whatever, those case may merit saying something and naming names. It's just as Derek stated, there is a time and a place for everything and if people do have issues, try and work them out to start and go from there.

I'll be the first to own up to having made the mistake of attacking without thought. I count it as a weak moment and I make the promise of trying not to do it again. After that it's up to others to either forgive me and move on, or making up their mind not to deal with me. either way we are human and people make mistakes. Live and learn, right?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Coming from a viewpoint based in the corporate world, I'd have to say that it does nothing to say you had a problem with another person or entity without naming them.

[/ QUOTE ]


I would agree with that statement as well.

I took SMF's post a bit differently though. His post didn't really come across to me as though he was saying. "I had a difficult time with "X" artist so you should be carfeful also."
I took his post to mean that he had an issue of miscommunication that could occur with any artist, and he was advising the community to be cautious in any attempt at commisioning artwork.

[/ QUOTE ]

I too thought SMF's post as sage advice or something that needed to be said to let people know that simple miscommunication can ....prevent a smooth transaction....

But in some cases if someone gives very poor service or just takes the money and run or whatever, those case may merit saying something and naming names. It's just as Derek stated, there is a time and a place for everything and if people do have issues, try and work them out to start and go from there.

I'll be the first to own up to having made the mistake of attacking without thought. I count it as a weak moment and I make the promise of trying not to do it again. After that it's up to others to either forgive me and move on, or making up their mind not to deal with me. either way we are human and people make mistakes. Live and learn, right?

[/ QUOTE ]


Right!

That's what I like about this forum. The people here are ready to offer good advice and opinions.

And you all got it right.

It was the simple lack of communication between artist and client that waylaid what should have been a straightforward commission. It's something that could happen to anyone, and I learned from this experience. From my point of view, I didn't feel the need to name the artist. In my email to the artist I explained where and how I felt the communication had broken down so it could be avoided in the future. I also still want to work with the artist in question but that outlook appears doubtful at this time.

I do agree though that there are times when you should name the party. Non-delivery, or unreasonable, lengthy delays of paid for items or services would certainly count towards outing the culprit as a warning to other potential clients.

This mistake wasn't costly and was avoidable. I'll learn from it and move on. And hope none of you find yourself facing a similar circumstance in the future.

This thread also reminds me of my current situation. I have a commission in the works from another artist but it's been awhile. I sent my upfront payment back in Oct 2006, gotten a rough draft in Dec, and an e-mail responding to an inquiry I made. Other than that, there has been little communication. I'm still being patient, just wondering how much longer I need to be patient seeing how I'm now 6 months since I started this request.

I'm not going to flame or anything, but I do go through the angsts and times of worry, but I still try to give the artist space so that they are not under pressure or get upset. Is there a point where I need to start to worry?

Everyone let me know. Thanks.

[ QUOTE ]
This thread also reminds me of my current situation. I have a commission in the works from another artist but it's been awhile. I sent my upfront payment back in Oct 2006, gotten a rough draft in Dec, and an e-mail responding to an inquiry I made. Other than that, there has been little communication. I'm still being patient, just wondering how much longer I need to be patient seeing how I'm now 6 months since I started this request.

I'm not going to flame or anything, but I do go through the angsts and times of worry, but I still try to give the artist space so that they are not under pressure or get upset. Is there a point where I need to start to worry?

Everyone let me know. Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't do an up-front payment, personally. Some people are flakey and the only way to light a fire under their [censored] is with money. Sometimes I do a one-third up front, one third upon approval of comps, and one third upon delivery, but that's for big stuff.

I can imagine maybe doing one-third up front with a single commission, just to prove honesty and all that, but no more. You don't have any real leverage with the guy now, but you could do this:

Approach him with another commission, and suggest it's more lucrative. Say you'll fill him in on the details when this job is finished. You don't actually have to have another job for him- you just need a way to kick him in the [censored]. I wouldn't re-hire someone who didn't communicate after receiving payment anyway.