Task Forces/Trials, Reputation, and you.[I8]
By
Catwhoorg,
Posted on: 2007-01-03 03:43 in Player Guides
Very nice guide, both from a content and organization standpoint. Only comment I would make is that at heroic (in my experence) opponents generally con +0 (even/same level), when you get LTs, they con as if they were +1 to you (yellow instead of white). At higher difficulty settings, this seems to cause a surprise amongst some teams I've been on when they see reds or purples when not expecting them.
While your subject line doesn't specifically address mission contact limits to the conning of opponents, it might be worth including a section on that (i.e. contacts have a base level max that they will con missions). People on teams are sometimes surprised why a "fresh" mission is conning 'low' to them. Red Tomax is the authoritative source on this in my book: www.nofuture.org.uk/coh/contacts/ and www.nofuture.org.uk/cov/contacts/
Just a note on TFs. As you say, the TF Leader rep determines how the mission will con, if the leader disconnects, whomever receives the star will control the reputation. IIRC, at one time, you couldn't visit Hero Corps while on a TF (they were treated like contacts), so it was important to have everyone turn down rep. It is not as big a deal now in many cases, but for certain TFs/Trials (Shard, Eden, Respec) it is a good idea for everyone to turn down rep to avoid long detours to hero corps. It still isn't a bad idea if the team doesn't want to find itself partway through a mish and having to face higher conning opponents because the leader DC'ed. Some old-school TF leaders will still request/require that everyone turn down their rep for this reason, even though it doesn't *directly* influence the mission setting.
Well done! 5 Stars for you if it were still possible 
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Very nice guide, both from a content and organization standpoint. Only comment I would make is that at heroic (in my experence) opponents generally con +0 (even/same level), when you get LTs, they con as if they were +1 to you (yellow instead of white). At higher difficulty settings, this seems to cause a surprise amongst some teams I've been on when they see reds or purples when not expecting them.
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I think there is a misunderstanding here.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Cogs/spiderlings/et @ level con blue
Minions @ level con white
Lieutenants @ level con yellow
bosses @ level con orange
elite bosses @ level con red
AV @ level con purple
Giant Monsters @ any level always con Purple
Which is the same way as saying the Con chart
off white = -4 or below
grey = -3
green = -2
blue = -1
white = even
yellow = +1
orange = +2
red = +3
Purple = +4 or more
</pre><hr />
So the orange/red nature of bosses etc, even in "same level" gradations, will always be there, even if they are all at the same -substantive- level as you.
So that means a Boss who cons WHITE to you, is actually three levels below your substantive level.
Hope that makes sense.
Thanks for the nice comment.
Ex
--
Ex.
Part-Troll, who used to be Excession777, now playing pantomime with people's mindlets.
--
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I think there is a misunderstanding here.
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No misunderstanding (at least on my part), I would add that table to the guide. Not stating an inaccuracy on your description, more of a clarification that people often equate 'con' with 'color' and there is a not insignificant difference in fighting (for example) a 'red' minion and a 'red' boss.
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It makes sense for everyone to set their difficulty to Heroic.
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I don't get it. You state that then go on to demonstrate that only the leader's reputation matters.
if the leader DC's and the new leader is not Heroic (or whatever) then the new leader can change before the next mission. At worse, everyone can log off, then agreed on who should log back on first to become the new leader because their reputation is set "right".
why not simply change? because it costs influence to change your reputation. quite a bit of influence in fact. at level 50 it's about 100,000 infl. For those of us that don't leave supergroup mode ever, it's not insignificant.
you may also want to not that some trial (sewer trial and Eden trial) require the team leader to be a specific level or level tange that is smaller than the range for the TF. For example I was set to invincible but was the only member in the team that could start it. The other members knew I was reluctant to pay the influence to go back to Heroic, but we had not choice (a rich 50 actually chipped in the fee for me, bless his heart)
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Unyielding Relentless Same as Tenacious, but spawns are one level higher than base
Invincible Ruthless Same as Unyielding but all spawns are TWO levels higher than base.
</pre><hr />
Hang on a second, Invincible is not double mob sizes. Without more testing I can only speak for soloing, but when solo the spawn sizes are the same as heroic.
Also, Tenacious/Unyielding isn't really "double" the number of critters. My personal theory is that it uses the spawn size for a team with +1 members.
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Generally missions are at a set level, the MAX level for the TF, so for Positron thats L15, for Synapse it's L20, for Sister Psyche it's L25. This can be bumped up by having more people in the TF, so a 7 or 8 person team will probably run into L16's or even L17's on Positron.
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I have seen enough blue minions on TFs to make me question whether the base is actually -1 to the max level. Since a team size >= 6 bumps the mob levels by 1 and most TFs are large teams, the "usual case" may be equal to the max level.
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note well The calculation for RESPEC TRIALS is based on the HIGHEST PERSON in the team PLUS 2, up to and including max-level for the respec trial.
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There's no way it's that high anymore on heroic. I think it's +0 to the highest, and note additionally that the reactor waves can drop up to 2 levels below that. There can be green minions.
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This was my first attempt at a guide. Please be gentle.
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That's a good guide, there's a lot of superstition out there about these things.
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A guide to Hero Reputation and Task Forces, by Excession (Part_Troll).
What is this guide about?
How Reputation (Heroic, Unyielding, Invincible etc, changed at Hero Analysts throughout Paragon City) affects the difficulty of Task Force missions.
This post was originally offered in response to someone asking "does everyone have to set their reputation to Heroic before task forces begin, or just the Team Leader". After spending some time on it, I figured it was a good candidate for my First Guide. I hope you like it.
This guide was written from a Hero perspective. Here's a table of the CoH and CoV reputations
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Hero Villain Effect
Heroic Villainous Base. Critters generally spawn at level, minions should con WHITE
Tenacious Malicious Double the number of critters per spawn
Rugged Vicious Same as Heroic, but spawns are one level higher than base
Unyielding Relentless Same as Tenacious, but spawns are one level higher than base
Invincible Ruthless Same as Unyielding but all spawns are TWO levels higher than base.
</pre><hr />
What to do if you disagree with something stated here
Private Message to me with details, and I'll investigate.
And so to the guide.
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Dear Forum
I have been asked on multiple occasions to set MY reputation to Heroic when we are forming a task force, even though I am not the leader. It is my understanding that only the Leader's reputation matters in Task Forces, and that my changing difficulty will have no positive benefit to me or the team in question.
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It makes sense for everyone to set their difficulty to Heroic.
Mission difficulty for normal Task Forces (Positron, Sister Psyche, etc) is determined by a number of factors.
Generally missions are at a set level, the MAX level for the TF, so for Positron thats L15, for Synapse it's L20, for Sister Psyche it's L25. This can be bumped up by having more people in the TF, so a 7 or 8 person team will probably run into L16's or even L17's on Positron.
The LEADER's difficulty will determine how much more difficult a TF will be, here's a little table as a guide.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
TF Difficulty
Heroic Tenacious Rugged Unyielding Invincible
Positron 10-15 15 2x critters 16 16 2x critters 17 2x critters
Synapse 15-20 20 2x critters 21 21 2x critters 22 2x critters
Sister Psyche 20-25 25 2x critters 26 26 2x critters 27 2x critters
Moonfire 23-28 28 2x critters 29 29 2x critters 30 2x critters
Citadel 25-30 30 2x critters 31 31 2x critters 32 2x critters
Manticore 30-35 35 2x critters 36 36 2x critters 37 2x critters
Numina 35-38 38 2x critters 39 39 2x critters 40 2x critters
</pre><hr />
So according to the above table, Positron is for Level 10 to Level 15 heros, the base (heroic) difficulty will be Level 15, at Tenacious there will be double the number of Level 15 critters per spawn, at Rugged there will be the normal number of critters in each spawn, but they will be from a Level 16 base. Unyielding will be Lever 16 base, with two times the normal number of critters, and Invincible will be Level 17 with two times the normal number of critters.
Please be aware that these numbers aren't rock solid, there are slight wavering of critter levels and numbers within TF missions.
To put it into a practical example, a full team of eight Level 10 heroes, doing a Positron Task force on Invincible reputation, would be facing level 17 critters. They would not survive unscathed.
Here's a con chart: "con" means what colour a particular critter's name is when you target it.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Off-white = -4 levels or below your substantive level
Grey = -3
Green = -2
Blue = -1
White = even
Yellow = +1
Orange = +2
Red = +3
Purple = +4 levels or more above your substantive level
</pre><hr />
And how lieutenants and bosses con different colours to players, even though they are the same -level- as you are:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Cogs/spiderlings/et @ level con blue
Minions @ level con white
Lieutenants @ level con yellow
bosses @ level con orange
elite bosses @ level con red
AV @ level con purple
Giant Monsters @ any level always con Purple
</pre><hr />
A great article on difficult sliders and mission rewards is Mission Diffuculty & Reputation for Solo Play , and another nice article on XP and difficulty sliders is Maximising Mission XP. Paragon wiki has a good page for all the CoH taskforces Paragon Wiki: Trials and Task Forces
The LEADER on a TF is a set position, determined by who is team leader when the TF is formed. It cannot be voluntarily changed in the game. Only if the leader disconnects/quits the TF will the Leader position change. Once that happens, the NEXT person who joined the -team- will become leader, and mission difficulty will now depend upon their current Hero Analyst rating.
So if you have
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Player Difficulty
Joe Heroic
Mary Invincible
Annabel Rugged
Peter Heroic[*] LEADER
Zachary Tenacious
</pre><hr />
Then the TF will start on base level, and everything will be sweet.
If Peter Disconnects or otherwise leaves the server, then the next person in line is the first person to join the team -- Joe. Since he's Heroic, nothing will change.
If Joe disconnects, or otherwise leaves the TF, then Mary becomes team leader. Suddenly all new spawns(*) will be at Invincible level of difficulty. I don't believe that this difficulty level -ever- ramps -down- only -up-. So even if Mary disconnected and Annabel was leader, the critters would still spawn at Invincible level, but spawn sizes (rather than level) are still based on the NUMBER of people in the team at the time the spawn is triggered.
THAT is why it is important for ALL of the team-members to go and change down to Heroic before a Task Force is formed, so that you don't get unpleasant surprises later. Of course, if you're a Superteam and can do it on invincible, well you don't care.
note well The calculation for RESPEC TRIALS is based on the HIGHEST PERSON in the team PLUS 2, up to and including max-level for the respec trial. That means a team doing the first respec trial with all people at L24 (24,24,24,24,24,24) will be facing L26 critters. A team of 24,27,24,24,24,24 will be facing L29 critters. A team of 50,27,24,24,24,24 will be facing max level critters for the TF, which is L33 (the 50 will be autoexemplared down to max level for the trial). As you can imagine, Level 24 people up against L33 critters would NOT be conducive to a pleasant event. Mission Difficulty ADDS to these base levels, and again, the LEADER's difficulty determines the difficulty modifier. If the LEADER changes, the DIFFICULTY may change, and it only ever changes -up-.
Extra Special Note When on a TF/TRIAL, the Mission drop down in the Nav Bar will only ever show the difficulty that YOU are set to. So if you're on Heroic, and the leader is on Invincible, when you look at the mission in the Nav drop down, it will say 'Task Force (Heroic)' but if the LEADER looks it will say 'Task Force (Invincible)' and it is the LEADER that determines the level, not you. So even if you check and it says the TF is on Heroic, unless you're the leader or sorted this out before the TF started, you can't be sure. Similarly if you are on Invincible, but the Leader is on Tenacious, the actual level of the TF will be Tenacious.
(*) Spawns -- mission spawns are calculated at some relatively-large distance from whatever person 'triggers' the spawn within an instance of a map. Whatever the difficulty rating of the mission is AND the number of people in the team, WHEN THE CRITTERS SPAWN determines what will spawn and how many of 'em.
This is why you get those people who was to buff up a mission's team size, they will get 8 player team, and then 'stealth' run, or otherwise trigger every spawn on a map. Once triggered, a spawn is "set" for the duration of that instance, and no more (or fewer) critters will spawn. Similarly you can do it the other way -- start off a mission with only 1 person in the mission, the rest are logged off or not in the team. The 1 person zips through the mission triggering all the spawns to be 'one person' spawns at their difficulty level. Then they go back to the start, and invite the rest of the team in, and proceed to have a tailored cake-walk mission. Useful for doing AV's (as long as you can pull off the 'triggering' alone without dying in the process.)
Some special missions don't follow these rules, notable the AV ones and 'one off' special missions.
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Resetting the mission
I know for a fact that this one is no longer true. Missions are now dynamically loaded, so if you add a significant number of members during a mission, there is no need to have the mission reset. The next spawn will be sized appropriately.
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You're partially correct. If you get more or fewer people in a team and spawns have not been triggered, then the game engine will dynamically increase/decrease the number of critters, depending on team size. A map that has had its spawns triggered will NOT ramp up in difficulty -- so those teams that have some stealthy guy race through looking for glowies, and then invite a heap more people to the team, may find that the mission is way too easy, and WILL need to reset the mission in order ot generate 'normal' spawn sizes.
So sometimes you DO need to reset, but in 95% of cases, it's not required, and only 5% are specialist cases where the team is doing something different from a normal PuG.
Hope that clears some of this up.
This was my first attempt at a guide. Please be gentle.
Ex
[edit: add con table(s)]
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Numina TF goes up to 40. Not 38. I know I just did it the other day.
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It makes sense for everyone to set their difficulty to Heroic.
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I don't get it. You state that then go on to demonstrate that only the leader's reputation matters.
if the leader DC's and the new leader is not Heroic (or whatever) then the new leader can change before the next mission. At worse, everyone can log off, then agreed on who should log back on first to become the new leader because their reputation is set "right".
why not simply change? because it costs influence to change your reputation. quite a bit of influence in fact. at level 50 it's about 100,000 infl. For those of us that don't leave supergroup mode ever, it's not insignificant.
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Well, you replied to me, but I think you were quoting the OP.
My comment on this point is:
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It is not as big a deal now in many cases, but for certain TFs/Trials (Shard, Eden, Respec) it is a good idea for everyone to turn down rep to avoid long detours to hero corps. It still isn't a bad idea if the team doesn't want to find itself partway through a mish and having to face higher conning opponents because the leader DC'ed.
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Understand the influence problem and I run mostly in SG mode even at 50 (I think my scrap just got first infl badge, mainly because he did his 20s 2x xp weekend and was getting double infl in addition to the prestige), but realistically, you come out of sg mode for about 20 minutes during a tf and you've earned the round trip infl. Better than spending 20 minutes doing the "logoff" dance where you try to get the "right" person to log back in first, or have to reset a mish because someone dc'ed partway. What are you going to do when the leader DC's right after entering the reactor room, halfway through the Eden or Canver of Transcendence Trial, or on one of the kill all shard missions? Some teams will be able to roll on, some won't.
<QR>
Is there a "red name" confirmation or denial on whether or not reputation has an effect on Task Forces? We are attempting to complete the STF, and are seemingly unable to get past the Defeat Dr. Aeon mission that has him, and his many clones. I've suggested to our leader that we lower our reps, but he doesn't really want to because he isn't sure whether or not its going to make a difference, and he feels that Invincible is "fun."
We have all quit the TF to make an attempt later.. so whatever advice we can get will be for future reference.
If anyone can offer a link to a red name that can put this issue to rest... I'd be greatly appreciative.
Thanks...
Peace
Sharing kindness is kindness doubled; a burden shared is a burden halved...
I am not bigoted for race, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, or age... I do, however, have a big problem with stupidity, and stupidity knows no boundaries.
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<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>Unyielding Relentless Same as Tenacious, but spawns are one level higher than base
Invincible Ruthless Same as Unyielding but all spawns are TWO levels higher than base.
</pre><hr />
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Hang on a second, Invincible is not double mob sizes. Without more testing I can only speak for soloing, but when solo the spawn sizes are the same as heroic.
Also, Tenacious/Unyielding isn't really "double" the number of critters. My personal theory is that it uses the spawn size for a team with +1 members.
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Your correction is 100% correct. It can seem like Difficulty Levels 2 and 4 are doubling the spawn size if you're going by what it does for a soloist. Since those Difficulty Levels (2 and 4) treat the size of your team as having an extra person, then for a soloist, it *will* double your spawn size since the spawns are geared for two players and not one.
However, if you're on a team of 7 and you bump the Difficulty Level from 1 to 2, then you're going to cause spawn sizes generated for a team of 8 (i.e., 7+1) and not for a team of 14 (7 x 2). That does *not* double spawn size.
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Is there a "red name" confirmation or denial on whether or not reputation has an effect on Task Forces? We are attempting to complete the STF, and are seemingly unable to get past the Defeat Dr. Aeon mission that has him, and his many clones. I've suggested to our leader that we lower our reps, but he doesn't really want to because he isn't sure whether or not its going to make a difference, and he feels that Invincible is "fun."
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Not needed. Three years of player experience has confirmed that mission difficulty is adjusted by the leader's difficulty setting, even for missions in task forces and trials. (This is discounting the occasionally bugged TF or Trial where that did not happen.)
I think I've been on the STF with the leader who runs on Invincible for 'fun,' as if lots of team wipes and two extra hours is 'fun.' We had a heated argument and I refused to continue to participate until he lowered the difficulty (he never advertised that he was running an invincible TF, and he had the choice of disbanding and restarting with new players who wanted an invincible TF). So, he lowered the difficulty and after that, he continued to whine about how 'easy' it was even though we had two wipes in the final mission. Grade A Jackass.
Here is my guide on difficulty levels.
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Even level elite bosses are still orange. Just like a regular boss. They are just tougher is all.
Other than that, nice guide.
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Something else to note for this guide.
For Trials, the difficulty will be set by the Highest Applicable Level.
Say for the Respec trial, you have a 25, 2 26's, three 27's, a 28, and a 50. The 50 will autoexemp down to 30, setting diff at 33.
If you exemplar the 50 to one of the others BEFORE YOU FORM THE TRIAL TEAM, then their effective level will match... and your map will be easier.
In the above case, exemping the 50 to the 25, and the 28 to a 26, will effectively cap the trial at 30 instead of 33 (much more do-able for a team whose members know their powers need fine-tuning!) This is one of the few times where being within 3 levels for the exemp is OK.
Plus at the end, in the reactor, you can reverse the exemp/aspirant combo to be a sidekick/mentor combo, making fighting off the mobs that much easier.
Yes it means some people will not get XP, and instead will be paid in influence and/or prestige. Most regard this as an OK tradeoff.
"City of Heroes. April 27, 2004 - August 31, 2012. Obliterated not with a weapon of mass destruction, not by an all-powerful supervillain... but by a cold-hearted and cowardly corporate suck-up."
Seems I can no longer edit my own post 
The information I posted about spawn sizes, has correctly been identified as mistaken. Thanks for the clarification.
Please be sure to read the excellent guide on Mission Difficulty :
here
Ex
--
Ex.
Part-Troll, who used to be Excession777, now playing pantomime with people's mindlets.
--
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Is there a "red name" confirmation or denial on whether or not reputation has an effect on Task Forces?
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I have had such confirmation in PMs when trying to pin down some screwy behaviour in the respec trial spawns. Its actually trivially easy to test for yourself with a group of 3.
Start Posi at heroic, not spawn levels in the 1st mob, repeat a few times.
Then repeat on rugged, then again on Invincible.
@Catwhoorg "Rule of Three - Finale" Arc# 1984
@Mr Falkland Islands"A Nation Goes Rogue" Arc# 2369 "Toasters and Pop Tarts" Arc#116617
[ QUOTE ]
A guide to Hero Reputation and Task Forces, by Excession (Part_Troll).
What is this guide about?
How Reputation (Heroic, Unyielding, Invincible etc, changed at Hero Analysts throughout Paragon City) affects the difficulty of Task Force missions.
This post was originally offered in response to someone asking "does everyone have to set their reputation to Heroic before task forces begin, or just the Team Leader". After spending some time on it, I figured it was a good candidate for my First Guide. I hope you like it.
This guide was written from a Hero perspective. Here's a table of the CoH and CoV reputations
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Hero Villain Effect
Heroic Villainous Base. Critters generally spawn at level, minions should con WHITE
Tenacious Malicious number of critters per spawn is increased as though you had an extra team-member
Rugged Vicious Same as Heroic, but spawns are one level higher than base
Unyielding Relentless Same as Tenacious, but spawns are one level higher than base
Invincible Ruthless Same as Heroic but all spawns are TWO levels higher than base.
</pre><hr />
What to do if you disagree with something stated here
Private Message to me with details, and I'll investigate.
And so to the guide.
[ QUOTE ]
Dear Forum
I have been asked on multiple occasions to set MY reputation to Heroic when we are forming a task force, even though I am not the leader. It is my understanding that only the Leader's reputation matters in Task Forces, and that my changing difficulty will have no positive benefit to me or the team in question.
[/ QUOTE ]
It makes sense for everyone to set their difficulty to Heroic.
Mission difficulty for normal Task Forces (Positron, Sister Psyche, etc) is determined by a number of factors.
Generally missions are at a set level, the MAX level for the TF, so for Positron thats L15, for Synapse it's L20, for Sister Psyche it's L25. This can be bumped up by having more people in the TF, so a 7 or 8 person team will probably run into L16's or even L17's on Positron.
The LEADER's difficulty will determine how much more difficult a TF will be, here's a little table as a guide.
UPDATE: A much better version of this information is available here
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
TF Difficulty
Heroic Tenacious Rugged Unyielding Invincible
Positron 10-15 15 +critters 16 16 +critters 17 critters
Synapse 15-20 20 +critters 21 21 +critters 22 critters
Sister Psyche 20-25 25 +critters 26 26 +critters 27 critters
Moonfire 23-28 28 +critters 29 29 +critters 30 critters
Citadel 25-30 30 +critters 31 31 +critters 32 critters
Manticore 30-35 35 +critters 36 36 +critters 37 critters
Numina 35-40 40 +critters 41 41 +critters 42 critters
</pre><hr />
So according to the above table, Positron is for Level 10 to Level 15 heros, the base (heroic) difficulty will be Level 15, at Tenacious there will be more Level 15 critters per spawn, at Rugged there will be the normal number of critters in each spawn, but they will be from a Level 16 base. Unyielding will be Lever 16 base, with more than then normal number of critters, and Invincible will be Level 17 with the normal number of critters.
Please be aware that these numbers aren't rock solid, there are slight wavering of critter levels and numbers within TF missions.
To put it into a practical example, a full team of eight Level 10 heroes, doing a Positron Task force on Invincible reputation, would be facing level 17 critters. They would not survive unscathed.
Here's a con chart: "con" means what colour a particular critter's name is when you target it.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Off-white = -4 levels or below your substantive level
Grey = -3
Green = -2
Blue = -1
White = even
Yellow = +1
Orange = +2
Red = +3
Purple = +4 levels or more above your substantive level
</pre><hr />
And how lieutenants and bosses con different colours to players, even though they are the same -level- as you are:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Cogs/spiderlings/et @ level con blue
Minions @ level con white
Lieutenants @ level con yellow
bosses @ level con orange
elite bosses @ level con red
AV @ level con purple
Giant Monsters @ any level always con Purple
</pre><hr />
A great article on difficult sliders and mission rewards is Mission Diffuculty & Reputation for Solo Play , and another nice article on XP and difficulty sliders is Maximising Mission XP. Paragon wiki has a good page for all the CoH taskforces Paragon Wiki: Trials and Task Forces
The LEADER on a TF is a set position, determined by who is team leader when the TF is formed. It cannot be voluntarily changed in the game. Only if the leader disconnects/quits the TF will the Leader position change. Once that happens, the NEXT person who joined the -team- will become leader, and mission difficulty will now depend upon their current Hero Analyst rating.
So if you have
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Player Difficulty
Joe Heroic
Mary Invincible
Annabel Rugged
Peter Heroic[*] LEADER
Zachary Tenacious
</pre><hr />
Then the TF will start on base level, and everything will be sweet.
If Peter Disconnects or otherwise leaves the server, then the next person in line is the first person to join the team -- Joe. Since he's Heroic, nothing will change.
If Joe disconnects, or otherwise leaves the TF, then Mary becomes team leader. Suddenly all new spawns(*) will be at Invincible level of difficulty. I don't believe that this difficulty level -ever- ramps -down- only -up-. So even if Mary disconnected and Annabel was leader, the critters would still spawn at Invincible level, but spawn sizes (rather than level) are still based on the NUMBER of people in the team at the time the spawn is triggered.
THAT is why it is important for ALL of the team-members to go and change down to Heroic before a Task Force is formed, so that you don't get unpleasant surprises later. Of course, if you're a Superteam and can do it on invincible, well you don't care.
note well The calculation for RESPEC TRIALS is based on the HIGHEST PERSON in the team PLUS 2, up to and including max-level for the respec trial. That means a team doing the first respec trial with all people at L24 (24,24,24,24,24,24) will be facing L26 critters. A team of 24,27,24,24,24,24 will be facing L29 critters. A team of 50,27,24,24,24,24 will be facing max level critters for the TF, which is L33 (the 50 will be autoexemplared down to max level for the trial). As you can imagine, Level 24 people up against L33 critters would NOT be conducive to a pleasant event. Mission Difficulty ADDS to these base levels, and again, the LEADER's difficulty determines the difficulty modifier. If the LEADER changes, the DIFFICULTY may change, and it only ever changes -up-.
Extra Special Note When on a TF/TRIAL, the Mission drop down in the Nav Bar will only ever show the difficulty that YOU are set to. So if you're on Heroic, and the leader is on Invincible, when you look at the mission in the Nav drop down, it will say 'Task Force (Heroic)' but if the LEADER looks it will say 'Task Force (Invincible)' and it is the LEADER that determines the level, not you. So even if you check and it says the TF is on Heroic, unless you're the leader or sorted this out before the TF started, you can't be sure. Similarly if you are on Invincible, but the Leader is on Tenacious, the actual level of the TF will be Tenacious.
(*) Spawns -- mission spawns are calculated at some relatively-large distance from whatever person 'triggers' the spawn within an instance of a map. Whatever the difficulty rating of the mission is AND the number of people in the team, WHEN THE CRITTERS SPAWN determines what will spawn and how many of 'em.
This is why you get those people who was to buff up a mission's team size, they will get 8 player team, and then 'stealth' run, or otherwise trigger every spawn on a map. Once triggered, a spawn is "set" for the duration of that instance, and no more (or fewer) critters will spawn. Similarly you can do it the other way -- start off a mission with only 1 person in the mission, the rest are logged off or not in the team. The 1 person zips through the mission triggering all the spawns to be 'one person' spawns at their difficulty level. Then they go back to the start, and invite the rest of the team in, and proceed to have a tailored cake-walk mission. Useful for doing AV's (as long as you can pull off the 'triggering' alone without dying in the process.)
Some special missions don't follow these rules, notable the AV ones and 'one off' special missions.
[ QUOTE ]
Resetting the mission
I know for a fact that this one is no longer true. Missions are now dynamically loaded, so if you add a significant number of members during a mission, there is no need to have the mission reset. The next spawn will be sized appropriately.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're partially correct. If you get more or fewer people in a team and spawns have not been triggered, then the game engine will dynamically increase/decrease the number of critters, depending on team size. A map that has had its spawns triggered will NOT ramp up in difficulty -- so those teams that have some stealthy guy race through looking for glowies, and then invite a heap more people to the team, may find that the mission is way too easy, and WILL need to reset the mission in order ot generate 'normal' spawn sizes.
So sometimes you DO need to reset, but in 95% of cases, it's not required, and only 5% are specialist cases where the team is doing something different from a normal PuG.
Hope that clears some of this up.
This was my first attempt at a guide. Please be gentle.
Ex
[edit: add con table(s)]
[edit: modified information on Invincible missions spawn sizes]
[/ QUOTE ]
Update for spawn sizes and added a new link.
Ex
--
Ex.
Part-Troll, who used to be Excession777, now playing pantomime with people's mindlets.
--
A guide to Hero Reputation and Task Forces, by Excession (Part_Troll). updated 10/22/07
What is this guide about?
How Reputation (Heroic, Unyielding, Invincible etc, changed at Hero Analysts throughout Paragon City) affects the difficulty of Task Force missions.
This post was originally offered in response to someone asking "does everyone have to set their reputation to Heroic before task forces begin, or just the Team Leader". After spending some time on it, I figured it was a good candidate for my First Guide. I hope you like it.
This guide was written from a Hero perspective. Here's a table of the CoH and CoV reputations
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Hero Villain Effect
Heroic Villainous Base. Critters generally spawn at level, minions should con WHITE
Tenacious Malicious number of critters per spawn is increased as though you had an extra team-member
Rugged Vicious Same as Heroic, but spawns are one level higher than base
Unyielding Relentless Same as Tenacious, but spawns are one level higher than base
Invincible Ruthless Same as Heroic but all spawns are TWO levels higher than base.
</pre><hr />
What to do if you disagree with something stated here
Private Message to me with details, and I'll investigate.
And so to the guide.
[ QUOTE ]
Dear Forum
I have been asked on multiple occasions to set MY reputation to Heroic when we are forming a task force, even though I am not the leader. It is my understanding that only the Leader's reputation matters in Task Forces, and that my changing difficulty will have no positive benefit to me or the team in question.
[/ QUOTE ]
It makes sense for everyone to set their difficulty to Heroic.
Mission difficulty for normal Task Forces (Positron, Sister Psyche, etc) is determined by a number of factors.
Generally missions are at a set level, the MAX level for the TF, so for Positron thats L15, for Synapse it's L20, for Sister Psyche it's L25. This can be bumped up by having more people in the TF, so a 7 or 8 person team will probably run into L16's or even L17's on Positron.
The LEADER's difficulty will determine how much more difficult a TF will be, here's a little table as a guide.
UPDATE: A much better version of this information is available here
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
TF Difficulty
Heroic Tenacious Rugged Unyielding Invincible
Positron 10-15 15 +critters 16 16 +critters 17 critters
Synapse 15-20 20 +critters 21 21 +critters 22 critters
Sister Psyche 20-25 25 +critters 26 26 +critters 27 critters
Moonfire 23-28 28 +critters 29 29 +critters 30 critters
Citadel 25-30 30 +critters 31 31 +critters 32 critters
Manticore 30-35 35 +critters 36 36 +critters 37 critters
Numina 35-40 40 +critters 41 41 +critters 42 critters
</pre><hr />
So according to the above table, Positron is for Level 10 to Level 15 heros, the base (heroic) difficulty will be Level 15, at Tenacious there will be more Level 15 critters per spawn, at Rugged there will be the normal number of critters in each spawn, but they will be from a Level 16 base. Unyielding will be Lever 16 base, with more than then normal number of critters, and Invincible will be Level 17 with the normal number of critters.
Please be aware that these numbers aren't rock solid, there are slight wavering of critter levels and numbers within TF missions.
To put it into a practical example, a full team of eight Level 10 heroes, doing a Positron Task force on Invincible reputation, would be facing level 17 critters. They would not survive unscathed.
Here's a con chart: "con" means what colour a particular critter's name is when you target it.
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Off-white = -4 levels or below your substantive level
Grey = -3
Green = -2
Blue = -1
White = even
Yellow = +1
Orange = +2
Red = +3
Purple = +4 levels or more above your substantive level
</pre><hr />
And how lieutenants and bosses con different colours to players, even though they are the same -level- as you are:
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Cogs/spiderlings/et @ level con blue
Minions @ level con white
Lieutenants @ level con yellow
bosses @ level con orange
elite bosses @ level con red
AV @ level con purple
Giant Monsters @ any level always con Purple
</pre><hr />
A great article on difficult sliders and mission rewards is Mission Diffuculty & Reputation for Solo Play , and another nice article on XP and difficulty sliders is Maximising Mission XP. Paragon wiki has a good page for all the CoH taskforces Paragon Wiki: Trials and Task Forces
The LEADER on a TF is a set position, determined by who is team leader when the TF is formed. It cannot be voluntarily changed in the game. Only if the leader disconnects/quits the TF will the Leader position change. Once that happens, the NEXT person who joined the -team- will become leader, and mission difficulty will now depend upon their current Hero Analyst rating.
So if you have
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Player Difficulty
Joe Heroic
Mary Invincible
Annabel Rugged
Peter Heroic[*] LEADER
Zachary Tenacious
</pre><hr />
Then the TF will start on base level, and everything will be sweet.
If Peter Disconnects or otherwise leaves the server, then the next person in line is the first person to join the team -- Joe. Since he's Heroic, nothing will change.
If Joe disconnects, or otherwise leaves the TF, then Mary becomes team leader. Suddenly all new spawns(*) will be at Invincible level of difficulty. I don't believe that this difficulty level -ever- ramps -down- only -up-. So even if Mary disconnected and Annabel was leader, the critters would still spawn at Invincible level, but spawn sizes (rather than level) are still based on the NUMBER of people in the team at the time the spawn is triggered.
THAT is why it is important for ALL of the team-members to go and change down to Heroic before a Task Force is formed, so that you don't get unpleasant surprises later. Of course, if you're a Superteam and can do it on invincible, well you don't care.
note well The calculation for RESPEC TRIALS is based on the HIGHEST PERSON in the team PLUS 2, up to and including max-level for the respec trial. That means a team doing the first respec trial with all people at L24 (24,24,24,24,24,24) will be facing L26 critters. A team of 24,27,24,24,24,24 will be facing L29 critters. A team of 50,27,24,24,24,24 will be facing max level critters for the TF, which is L33 (the 50 will be autoexemplared down to max level for the trial). As you can imagine, Level 24 people up against L33 critters would NOT be conducive to a pleasant event. Mission Difficulty ADDS to these base levels, and again, the LEADER's difficulty determines the difficulty modifier. If the LEADER changes, the DIFFICULTY may change, and it only ever changes -up-.
Extra Special Note When on a TF/TRIAL, the Mission drop down in the Nav Bar will only ever show the difficulty that YOU are set to. So if you're on Heroic, and the leader is on Invincible, when you look at the mission in the Nav drop down, it will say 'Task Force (Heroic)' but if the LEADER looks it will say 'Task Force (Invincible)' and it is the LEADER that determines the level, not you. So even if you check and it says the TF is on Heroic, unless you're the leader or sorted this out before the TF started, you can't be sure. Similarly if you are on Invincible, but the Leader is on Tenacious, the actual level of the TF will be Tenacious.
(*) Spawns -- mission spawns are calculated at some relatively-large distance from whatever person 'triggers' the spawn within an instance of a map. Whatever the difficulty rating of the mission is AND the number of people in the team, WHEN THE CRITTERS SPAWN determines what will spawn and how many of 'em.
This is why you get those people who was to buff up a mission's team size, they will get 8 player team, and then 'stealth' run, or otherwise trigger every spawn on a map. Once triggered, a spawn is "set" for the duration of that instance, and no more (or fewer) critters will spawn. Similarly you can do it the other way -- start off a mission with only 1 person in the mission, the rest are logged off or not in the team. The 1 person zips through the mission triggering all the spawns to be 'one person' spawns at their difficulty level. Then they go back to the start, and invite the rest of the team in, and proceed to have a tailored cake-walk mission. Useful for doing AV's (as long as you can pull off the 'triggering' alone without dying in the process.)
Some special missions don't follow these rules, notable the AV ones and 'one off' special missions.
[ QUOTE ]
Resetting the mission
I know for a fact that this one is no longer true. Missions are now dynamically loaded, so if you add a significant number of members during a mission, there is no need to have the mission reset. The next spawn will be sized appropriately.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're partially correct. If you get more or fewer people in a team and spawns have not been triggered, then the game engine will dynamically increase/decrease the number of critters, depending on team size. A map that has had its spawns triggered will NOT ramp up in difficulty -- so those teams that have some stealthy guy race through looking for glowies, and then invite a heap more people to the team, may find that the mission is way too easy, and WILL need to reset the mission in order ot generate 'normal' spawn sizes.
So sometimes you DO need to reset, but in 95% of cases, it's not required, and only 5% are specialist cases where the team is doing something different from a normal PuG.
Hope that clears some of this up.
This was my first attempt at a guide. Please be gentle.
Ex
[edit: add con table(s)]
[edit: modified information on Invincible missions spawn sizes]
--
Ex.
Part-Troll, who used to be Excession777, now playing pantomime with people's mindlets.
--