Annual 2006 Halloween Costume Contest
By
2Negative,
Posted on: 2006-12-04 15:42 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I posted in the suggestion and ideas thread that maybe next year have a category or two for NPC costumes- they have to be villain mobs, civilians and contacts in "mundane" or "normal" clothes don't count. Some of the enemy mobs might be fun to attempt- CoT boss mages, Knives of artemis, atc. I know I really wanna try a Tsoo boss of some sort. But then at least there would be a category specifically for NPC costumes, as opposed to somebody dressing as one, when they were supposed to dress as their character.
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
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I think if anything is done it should be to declare another Runner up within the scope of the rules and award a similar prize.
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I don't think you're giving NCSoft enough credit. They're not mindless boobs wandering through life just randomly doing things they hope no one will mind. The judges here weren't idiots, at least I'd rather think not, although... it would be more comforting to say that.
We have to assume that the judges... as there has to be more than one, talked about the ramifications of awarding a monetary prize to someone who did not follow the rules, and KNEW they weren't following the rules, and EVERYONE else would know they weren't following the rules. I mean... we all know what a carnie looks like. There are numerous threads about the fact that you can't make one, because many want to. It's not like the judges just didn't notice. This wasn't just a mistake. I'd love to think it was... but it's just not realistic. One of the entry requirements was to put down the name and server of your hero or villian. I can only assume the entrant put down "all of them" under server. And it's not like the rules were subjective.. or up in the air or misunderstood. One of the few things you needed to submit was "One full frontal body shot (digital photo) of contestant, out in public, dressed as their hero or villain. ", and they even added the bold in the contest rules... not "any hero or villian" or "an in game hero or villian"... but "THEIR hero or villian".
It would simply be unrealistic to think that people being bothered by this.. and rightly so, was not predicted ahead of time. The only conclusion we can come to is that they simply didn't CARE. Is there any other possibility that I'm missing? I'd love to be wrong about this.
And if they actually don't care.. then it doesn't really matter what they do in subsequent contests. They can add an NPC category, but they're not actually obligated to stick to people who dressed up as NPCs to win that category, just as they weren't obligated to pick someone with an ingame location in this year's contest, or someone who dressed up as their character to win anything at all. I'm not a huge rulehound... as a matter of fact, I generally hate restrictions and structure. But there are times when it's needed, and even I, someone who generally hates rulesets and structure, think it's pretty obvious that these sorts of contests are among those times when it's needed. Judging is subjective enough. You can't get subjective with which rules you care about.
Zeus - god of randomness
Am I the only one who doesn't think Cookie Girl is really that attractive? She's average at best. What is so attractive about her to you guys? Even the outfit is pretty boring. But, I've obviously missed something here... ?
Impervia Girl
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It would simply be unrealistic to think that people being bothered by this.. and rightly so, was not predicted ahead of time. The only conclusion we can come to is that they simply didn't CARE. Is there any other possibility that I'm missing? I'd love to be wrong about this.
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Truthfully? I think they just made a dumb mistake. As the saying goes, even smart people make stupid mistakes. I mean, the first time *I* saw the costume, I missed the fact that it was a a Carnie and not her character, and I had a strong personal interest in the outcome and a lot of curiosity about how people made their costumes. It wasn't until my second pass through when I really looked to see how the costumes were made that the penny dropped for me!
Of course, we don't know who the judges are or what the process is. For all we know they might put up pictures in the NCSoft break room and people walking by vote as they get their morning coffee! My own guess is that the judges were well-meaning and naive, simply assuming that the in-game screenshot was the person's character. (Obviously a bad assumption.) They probably saw a well-done real-life costume they liked, saw that it matched the screenshot and that was that.
And remember this was clearly a rush job on their part. The announcement was a week late, right after Thanksgiving and Issue 8, and right BEFORE the winter event hit the test server. They'd already missed their deadline, Halloween was a rapidly fading memory so they couldn't wait *too* much longer, I imagine they *weren't* deeply interested in looking at the costume details, and then they also probably got distracted by the grunt work of cleaning up and posting all the pictures. So the judging process was probably a rush job and this just...fell through the cracks.
We'll probably never know the truth. (In fact, I think I'm happier NOT knowing!) That said, I really hope that they learned something from this, because however it happened, the judging process obviously messed up.
I imagine a lot of people are thinking "what's the big deal?", since really these contests are just meant to be lighthearted fun for the community to enjoy, and I think that's totally true! However--from a contestant's perspective--once you start putting time, energy and money into your entry, you'd certainly like to know that the judging will be done fairly. Otherwise, why bother with a contest at all?
Story Arcs:
"The Joy of States-mas", #533168
"A Mosaic of Shattered Dreams", #497506 (2011 Players Choice winner!)
"Television Presents: Attack of the Toons!", #373710
"Lightning in a Bottle", #376222
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I imagine a lot of people are thinking "what's the big deal?", since really these contests are just meant to be lighthearted fun for the community to enjoy, and I think that's totally true! However--from a contestant's perspective--once you start putting time, energy and money into your entry, you'd certainly like to know that the judging will be done fairly. Otherwise, why bother with a contest at all?
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I could not agree more. Good costumes generally cost a decent bit of time, money, and effort. When you commit to this, you hope to have a fair chance against the other contestants, to be judged on your merits, and that there will be some rules in place at least. Even if the rules are simple, such as "Nothing obscene, and it has to be your character".
When it appears that the rules have been chucked, allowing somebody not conforming to them to win, then the other contestants begin to wonder "Why bother even trying?" or "If they don't have to play by the rules, why should I?"
That's something to think about.
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
my friend made an entry, and her costume wasn't even posted
I agree, but I think it's spread out a bit more than that.
Obviously you're right on the mark as far as anyone attempting to enter a future NCSoft competition. Why put effort into something when you might as well just submit a peice of crap and hope the dart lands on your entry.
But... I think it should apply to people who aren't even interested in entering the contests. Because the contests are amusement to more than just the people who enter them. Have you ever sat down to check out a costume contest under atlas park... not enter, just check it out, and find that the judge picked the hottest chick instead of the best costume? It makes you feel like you've wasted your time. Like the judge was a complete boob. It makes you feel bad things about the judges, even though you weren't even in the contest. You were just watching.
These contests effect the community as a whole, not just the entrants. It's a show of camradarie, like a company putting together a company softball team. What if your company put together a softball team and then for no apparant reason after the game already started the company decided that you should use water noodles instead of baseball bats to hit the ball with? Wouldn't you think it was a bad idea, whether you were actually IN the game or not? Obviously it would matter more if you were playing the game instead of just watching it, but even the observers have a right to feel cheated.
Someone mentioned the word "cheated' was not appropriate for this case. I think it is... not for the entrant, however. The entrant didn't "cheat". I'm not really sure what she was doing truth be told, but it wasn't cheating. As far as I'm concerned she might as well have submitted a cool costume of a world of warcraft character. The cheat... was the other entrants and the observers. They were cheated.
I wonder if they're going to bother run other contests at this point. My theory is that they probably want to (I've spoken to cricket about the contests, and I think she genuinely has an interest in them), but just don't have the time or priority to do so. If they do, I expect more of the same.
Zeus - god of expectations
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my friend made an entry, and her costume wasn't even posted
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This is quite surprizing... and unfortunate. Surprizing because I just assumed they had posted ALL The entries, since some of the pictures they posted were just... well, I can't say the costumes were awful, but the pictures themselves were bad enough so you couldn't even tell if the person WAS wearing a costume! I recall one picture of a closeup of a guy's face, and he probably was wearing a wig of some sort.
I'm not saying he shouldn't have submitted something... I'm just saying that the picture made it obvious that the posted entries weren't just the "honorable mentions" or anything. It seemed like "all of them".
Is it possible for you to post a picture of your friend's entry? I know I'd like to see it.
Zeus - god of communion
i'd also like to add that i think her costume was just amazing 
That looks awesome, I wonder why they did not post it? Great job on the pictures too, night shots like that can be tricky.
I hope they will learn from the feedback here and use this on the next contest, I really do.
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
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http://kat.mossgreen.net/temp/titanis.jpg
http://kat.mossgreen.net/temp/titanis01.jpg
http://kat.mossgreen.net/temp/titanis02.jpg
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I also think she looks great. A very nice job, and it seems a shame that it wasn't included. Did she submit late or some other reason to disclude her? About the only legitimate reason I can think of for not including a picture is if it's too racy or just inappropriate, but hers definately doesn't fall into that category.. just a well done costume, and even some decent photography.
The background is also really well done. A great match.
Zeus - god of compliments
Avonlea should have won something. Great costume recreation and location. And because he handles loss like a man instead of a sore loser.
Heck, I'm tempted to buy him a prize myself. You want that there BFG AGEIA PhysX 128MB GDDR3 PCI Physics Accelerator Card by AGEIA Technologies, Inc.?
she submitted on time. she's just as confused as i am over her exclusion on the site.
she told me that aluminum powder makes the ears itch!
Jupe, those pictures are great! She definitely did a great job on both the costume and matching a tricky background. And I really like the silver skin...it looks fantastic and I've no idea how she managed to keep all those lines looking so clean and straight! 
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Avonlea should have won something. Great costume recreation and location. And because he handles loss like a man instead of a sore loser.
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<.<
>.>
(Puts down sniper rifle)
Thanks!
I do believe that if you win, win graciously. And if you lose, lose with a smile....it really does make them easier to sucker-punch next time. 
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Heck, I'm tempted to buy him a prize myself. You want that there BFG AGEIA PhysX 128MB GDDR3 PCI Physics Accelerator Card by AGEIA Technologies, Inc.?
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Yeah, and a pony! Yay, it's a Christmas miracle! 
Those elves in Santa's workshop sure have come a long way from wooden hobby horses. I mean, even just programming the firmware on those cards is no small potatoes. I guess they took some extension courses at the North Pole Community College or something...
Story Arcs:
"The Joy of States-mas", #533168
"A Mosaic of Shattered Dreams", #497506 (2011 Players Choice winner!)
"Television Presents: Attack of the Toons!", #373710
"Lightning in a Bottle", #376222
for the costume contests they should let everyone vote, lol
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for the costume contests they should let everyone vote, lol
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I wonder how this would work. Quite frankly, I've seen nothing but disaster in this sort of thing in the past... once people feel they can "campaign"... then things go to hell pretty quickly. On other other hand, it still might be something to try. Put a little note on the launcher that you can cast your vote for the best entry, so people other than just forumites would want to look at the entrants, and give everyone a chance to check it out.
It might be bad... but it might not. When current methods seem lackluster, maybe switching to something a little risky may be timely.
Oh, and yes.... lol.
Zeus - god of provoking thought
My experiences with "Audience voting" in costume contests suggest that this might be a bad idea. There's a tendancy to vote for the sluttiest/most revealing costume because the voters are thinking with....something other than their heads.
I would sooner have it judged on merit, creativity, and workmanship, as well as resemblance to the character.
For example- your favourite character is a different gender from you- how do you make that work and still look good, for example? Or if they gave us a "dress as enemy" category, how might a female contestant pull off a Tsoo boss costume?
I would sooner see entrants judged on creativity and skill over simple exposure any day. I've seen sexy costumes that were VERY well done- the controversial carnie outfit and a few slave leias come to mind. I've also seen sexy contest winners that had me saying "Oh please!", such as Diva 7- the one who looked like she was in a bikini or underwear. Not much effort at all, just near- nudity.
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
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Debate on the carnie costume aside, my jaw hit the keyboard when I saw Cookie Girl. I didn't much care who won what or when after that. I would like to say gratz to all the contestants for entering, I don't think I would have the guts to do it so I would never criticize anyone that did. As for Cookie Girl, thanks for playing.
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This may be overly simple... but can someone explain this to me? This is like the 4th or 5th comment on cookie girl I've seen and I honetsly don't undertand. She had a decent costume, to be sure, although a simple one, but then again... more complicated than some of the winners.
She had a decent costume and all, but the only thing I can see where she's really above anyone else is in physical attractiveness, but then again, she's probably be more physically attractive than the other entrants no matter what she wore. I'm kind of giving the posters the benefit of the doubt that they're not just talking about physical attractiveness, because that would be pretty insulting to the person dressed up as cookie girl, and such baseless insults just aren't called for in this sort of forum.
Can someone explain this to me? Am I missing something or are several people just posting to say "look, cookie girl, don't bother ever enter any contest again, because no matter what you do or how well you do it no one is ever going to be interested in anything but your attractiveness". Because that just seems kind of crude.
Zeus - god of not understanding
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You know, I don't necessarily think Cookie Girl is that hot, but come on. She's an attractive woman dressed skimpily like a sterotypical male fantasy. Furthermore, she entered a contest where the primary audience (stereotypically) are girl starved males. I refuse for a minute to believe that her attractiveness did not factor into her decision to select that particular costume.
"What? No! I swear I had no idea videogame geeks were turned on by half naked Asian schoolgirls!"
The point of view you put forward is indeed possible, but it's not so possible that the "OMG HAWT!" response is cause for confusion.
I've seen you postulate that the deviations from what is available in the costume editor are a result of her having the freedom to create the "true" look (unrestrained by COH options) of her character. Once again, possible, but I see a left over cosplay costume (anime schoolgirl being pretty generic) that was close enough to a possible COH costume for entry. The sash seems to be the only thing expressly done for the contest
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There's a tendancy to vote for the sluttiest/most revealing costume because the voters are thinking with....something other than their heads. ... I would sooner have it judged on merit, creativity, and workmanship, as well as resemblance to the character.
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I whole-heartedly agree. At least we know the Devs are jusging on a fair set of criteria, which are strictly defined in the contest guidelines:
All contestants will be judged on costume creativity, difficulty (intricacy of outfit), and best re-creation of costume.
Notice, no "hawtness" in there. Please let's leave it to the Devs!
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There's a tendancy to vote for the sluttiest/most revealing costume because the voters are thinking with....something other than their heads. ... I would sooner have it judged on merit, creativity, and workmanship, as well as resemblance to the character.
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I whole-heartedly agree. At least we know the Devs are jusging on a fair set of criteria, which are strictly defined in the contest guidelines:
All contestants will be judged on costume creativity, difficulty (intricacy of outfit), and best re-creation of costume.
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I'm trying to determine if you're being sarcastic or not. Because when I read the same thing.. I thought.. "yeah, of course, it would absolutely be best if the costume was run right and rewarded based on merit, but since that's obviously not happening, let's try option B".
Yes, it would always be preferable to have this run by NCSoft (don't mistake them for devs... they're just the publishers). and not subject to things like voting for the hottest. But since we've already run into SO many problems (at this point we're up to four, including them simply not bothering to post at least one great entry that we know of) then maybe it would be best if we took the responsibility OFF the people who clearly haven't done well with the responsibility so far. Being voted on by the players is indeed not the optimal choice. I'm just thinking it's better than how things are going now. It would help NCSoft do things on time a bit more, hold up their end, and while we'd have DIFFERENT problems, I think we'd have LESS.
Zeus - god of the lesser of two evils
I do think public voting for some contests might be more fun, but keep in mind NCsoft would still have to remove unqualifed applicants. For instance, if someone puts on a Batgirl costume and submits it, she shouldn't be allowed to win no matter how the community votes. Of course then we're back where we started...we have to trust them to make good screening decisions.
But then really, it sounds like this is really a question of trust. It's totally fair for contestants in ANY contest to expect the judges are going to be fair and impartial, and in this contest they clearly made some mistakes. But then ALL judges make mistakes. So each of us has to ask: Do I trust that the judging wasn't intentionally biased or malicious? And if they do make a mistake, do I trust them to not make it again and/or take the proper corrective action?
Of course, because the judging process right now is a black box to us, it does strain the trust somewhat since we don't know why certain decisions were made. For instance, maybe the judges thought my character's costume or name was too close to some copyrighted heroine that I'm not familiar with, so I got disqualified and wasn't even considered. But then, to me that's part of the judging process...and I'll trust them to do the right thing, accept that they're human and make mistakes, and call them on it when they do.
And in openness, I think Cricket and Lighthouse still have their work cut out for them as community liaisons. It's not that I don't trust them or like them--I do--but that kind of trust needs to be built up over time, and they're still fairly new. The black-box judging of these contests may be a necessary evil, but that doesn't build trust, it tests it. And the mistakes made in this contest didn't help matters. But I trust them to do the right thing.
Though don't get me wrong...if ever I have the opportunity to meet Cricket face-to-face--not electronically and totally off the record--I'll still ask why I didn't win.
Story Arcs:
"The Joy of States-mas", #533168
"A Mosaic of Shattered Dreams", #497506 (2011 Players Choice winner!)
"Television Presents: Attack of the Toons!", #373710
"Lightning in a Bottle", #376222
I suggested that next year, perhaps an NPC character category be added, but I recently had another idea while looking at the hero/villain entries from last year. I liked how people dressed as their villain, and submitted a pic of their heroic counterpart, along with a story explaining how they were linked. Reading the stories was just as entertaining as looking at the costumes.
So here's what I would love- have the aforementioned NPC category, along with heros and villains, and allow people to submit the story behind the character, about the same length as the ones submitted last year. If you portray your character, tell their story. If you dress as a member of an enemy faction, then tell how your character came to work for their villainous organization. Were they recruited by arachnos? Joined with the Family for love of money and power? Did they sign on with Crey as a researcher who quickly got in over their head?
This could be awesome if it's well done and fairly judged.
A (Golden Gate) Bridge Too Far- arc 299315
Crazy NIMBY's, Railroad robber barons, and kickboxing Engineers, Oh My! Go back in time and join the fight to save a San Francisco icon!
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http://kat.mossgreen.net/temp/titanis.jpg
http://kat.mossgreen.net/temp/titanis01.jpg
http://kat.mossgreen.net/temp/titanis02.jpg
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This costume is really good. I'd like to know why it wasn't shown with the others?
The only thing I can think of was that it didn't say "coh" or "city of heroes" in the pics. 
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I still do think publically calling someone a cheat is a bit much.
[/ QUOTE ] I think there's a difference between what you're implying posters here are doing and what I saw most of them saying. It's perfectly legitimate to question someone who got runner-up and won a $120 prize, when the rules were pretty specific, and the pictures we saw didn't appear to match them. People are asking if an exception was made, people are asking if they somehow missed the costume options, etc. In an official thread on the topic, that's not unwarranted at all.
When I noticed it, I chose to ask about it in a PM. But asking about it here is perfectly legitimate.
My take on the whole thing is the costume could have gotten an honorable mention, but no prize. Now that the prize has been awarded, the cat is out of the bag, I think if anything is done it should be to declare another Runner up within the scope of the rules and award a similar prize.
I think people are bothered (rightly so) because it's actually more difficult to make a good looking costume that closely resembles only things available in the character generator. The look of things is very specific, and not often closely matchign real objects, so it's tricker to get a good match. If the rules are widened to include NPCs, well I know people that could make easy matches for some of those costumes just from stuff they have in their drawers. That's why there are questions about it, because rules are there for a reason. No one's saying the person set out to cheat with malice aforethought, they're just wondering why something outside the rules was rewarded, when others were not.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill