Side Topic
...have the feelin I'm about to get ignored by a buncha people 
I would love to expand upon my form post but at this time I find that this may not be the best place to do so. the fun part is that I actually like the idea of having this conversation in the effort to find some median or understanding...~
...the sword is truth...
~whiteperegrine~
I doubt you'll be getting ignored anytime soon as you actually provide feedback on folks work and generally post both before after and during lots of folks threads regardless of weather art is offered or not .
You'll note my disdain is merely for folks that show up go "nice , draw me -----> link in sig" in threads where the artist hasn't even suggested that they ar looking to draw anyone else , as well as never actually contributeing to the art forums in either comments, feedback or art .
I find these sorts of folks reprenhensiable as well as a very good deterrent to ever actually doing sketches for folks that I don't know very well .
once again these are IMHO YMMV and take with a grain of salt
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I doubt you'll be getting ignored anytime soon as you actually provide feedback on folks work and generally post both before after and during lots of folks threads regardless of weather art is offered or not .
You'll note my disdain is merely for folks that show up go "nice , draw me -----> link in sig" in threads where the artist hasn't even suggested that they ar looking to draw anyone else , as well as never actually contributeing to the art forums in either comments, feedback or art .
I find these sorts of folks reprenhensiable as well as a very good deterrent to ever actually doing sketches for folks that I don't know very well .
once again these are IMHO YMMV and take with a grain of salt
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No, I tend to agree.
I try to be as polite as possible - but with the exception of a queue set up by... well... me - I don't do art for other people unless we agreed in advance. There's not any harm in asking me *politely* - but I tend to turn people down outside of queues for... well, the reasons you stated.
That, and I'm not good enough to be paid - but my art still eats up *ALOT* of time. That's not a bad thing - but if I'm going to spend 6-10+ hours on a piece, I wanna do a piece that I *want* to do ya know? <,<;
I think I have a new idea for a thread though that comes out of this line of thought - though its not quite on the same subject.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
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That, and I'm not good enough to be paid - but my art still eats up *ALOT* of time. That's not a bad thing - but if I'm going to spend 6-10+ hours on a piece, I wanna do a piece that I *want* to do ya know? <,<;
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interesting comment here...and one I fully support.
...that said, where is the harm of some one asking for you to do work for them though? it is a given that you will draw what you want to draw...in effect that which inspires you...so I dont see the harm when people ask. it could be argued that if the person asked then there is a reason...and more than likely the reason is because they like something about your style. is it such a hardship to decline or plain ignore the request? the latter seems to be the standard here for artists who do not feel like doing requested work...and to be honest seems to work...as you dont see many, if any follow up posts about how "such and such stinks cause the ignored me". indeed...I would say that it is almost an understood that one can request work but there is no promise of work being done.
just some thoughts...and to be honest love discussions like this...very rare. but great exercise for the ole brain pan...not to mentioned very relevant to the art forum. 
~
...the sword is truth...
~whiteperegrine~
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That, and I'm not good enough to be paid - but my art still eats up *ALOT* of time. That's not a bad thing - but if I'm going to spend 6-10+ hours on a piece, I wanna do a piece that I *want* to do ya know? <,<;
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interesting comment here...and one I fully support.
...that said, where is the harm of some one asking for you to do work for them though? it is a given that you will draw what you want to draw...in effect that which inspires you...so I dont see the harm when people ask. it could be argued that if the person asked then there is a reason...and more than likely the reason is because they like something about your style. is it such a hardship to decline or plain ignore the request? the latter seems to be the standard here for artists who do not feel like doing requested work...and to be honest seems to work...as you dont see many, if any follow up posts about how "such and such stinks cause the ignored me". indeed...I would say that it is almost an understood that one can request work but there is no promise of work being done.
just some thoughts...and to be honest love discussions like this...very rare. but great exercise for the ole brain pan...not to mentioned very relevant to the art forum. ~
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I don't think it's so much the fact that people are asking... I think it's *HOW* some of them ask that annoys people.
Well - Like I said, <^.~> there's no harm in asking me - its just that I *probably* won't do it unless you give me a good reason or I happen to like you.
The reason is simple: Once you start acquessing to people's random requests for art, then it 'feels' both to you, and others, like you should do more for everyone who asks.
Sure, its not technically true - but that's how it can feel; and then you get trapped doing work you don't want to do <-.->; It'd be different if money was involved, but in a purely free situation, I, personally, don't feel like accidently getting stuck under a stack of requests.
This doesn't make the request-er bad; though I do find it sometimes a tad rude to, as Scarf said "pop into a thread, say "nice! link in my sig..."
Its like walking up to someone in RL and going, "Hey, that's a nice suit, would you want to clean my gutters for free? I'll hug you if you do!"
Its just... well... how's the guy being asked supposed to respond? You just got complimented, but then you're being asked to do something you don't have time or energy to do for someone you don't really know; and if you do it - then what happens when someone else does it? And the one after that? Because the more people that you do it for, the more that tell their friends...
<x_X> Yeah.
Its even worse on the forums, as obviously anyone could just scroll by and see it - thus lending to the belief that you'll work for anyone, free, whenever, all you gotta do is ask <X.x> and if you say no people think you've got a problem with THEM or that you're mean <x_X> That's why I just don't get into it. If I draw you, I never expect a return <^.~>b I just did it "cause". Course I'm self obssessed some mostly I draw my own characters <;_;> Don't hate me, I'm a writer too.
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
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I don't think it's so much the fact that people are asking... I think it's *HOW* some of them ask that annoys people.
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give the man a door prize I agree with the Liquidy one .
Theres lots of nice ways to ask for art that do get my attention .
a regular poster , critiquer, art person (heck even some guy off the street)that would like some art of his or her character and isn't particular and posts a thread
asking that his character be considered for art is a really good example of a way to ask for art
entering a thread going "zomg art , draw me ---------> link to pic " is not a good way to get the attention of someone whose art you like .
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That, and I'm not good enough to be paid - but my art still eats up *ALOT* of time. That's not a bad thing - but if I'm going to spend 6-10+ hours on a piece, I wanna do a piece that I *want* to do ya know? <,<;
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interesting comment here...and one I fully support.
...that said, where is the harm of some one asking for you to do work for them though? it is a given that you will draw what you want to draw...in effect that which inspires you...so I dont see the harm when people ask. it could be argued that if the person asked then there is a reason...and more than likely the reason is because they like something about your style. is it such a hardship to decline or plain ignore the request? the latter seems to be the standard here for artists who do not feel like doing requested work...and to be honest seems to work...as you dont see many, if any follow up posts about how "such and such stinks cause the ignored me". indeed...I would say that it is almost an understood that one can request work but there is no promise of work being done.
just some thoughts...and to be honest love discussions like this...very rare. but great exercise for the ole brain pan...not to mentioned very relevant to the art forum. ~
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I don't think it's so much the fact that people are asking... I think it's *HOW* some of them ask that annoys people.
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Oh sure - *fine* - say everything my much longer posts says in one little blurb <-.->;
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
...agreed on everything presented. I do really. the manner in which requests are made are a big factor whether the favor is going to be done or not.
"ZOMG you ROXXOR my SOXXORS DRAW MEH!"
...I can completely understand how that would be a turn off, especially coming from some person whom you have never ever seen before. in this regards I will most definately agree that there could have been a better way of going about making the request.
I also would agree with Liquid in the fact that I believe the issue is more in how the requests are made versus the actual requests themselves.
...and then the evil horns poke out
is it that hard to ignore or say no?~
...the sword is truth...
~whiteperegrine~
For some people, yes it is. It outs them and makes them look bad in front of all the people here on the boards. People that they consider to be nice as a community. It's a passive aggressive thing to do and it's not fun when you're being used as a workhorse for all the random people who enjoy having art. You know, we all want art. It's a universal love for our toons, which is why we're here in the first place.
I, on the other hand, don't care what people think of me and I'll gladly tell you no. But it's not such a cut and dry issue and very few people have as thick of a skin as I do.
Do you make a habit of going over to a random BBQ and asking if you can have a plate of ribs? Cause that's *exactly* what it's like. In fact, it's more like asking them to cook you some new ribs right there and then. It's rude.
Now if they're openly giving them away, well then sure. But that's an entirely seperate situation. That's not what I commonly see here. It's always "Wow that pic you did of ***** looks great, if you ever wanted to draw me, here's the references." Even the threads offering up their characters for any artist to draw are better because you're not directly confronting someone about it. That doesn't make them un-leechy but it's definately preferrable.
If you want art, then why don't ask nicely and then offer something in return? "If you ever wanted to draw my character..." is *not* a nice way to ask. It's a passive aggressive way to do it. "I would please like you do draw my character, I can pay for it in some fashion." is better and nicely direct. Some people can pay in talent, some people can pay in cash, some people can pay with in-game items or RPing. There's no reason for the take mentality other than greed. Just because it's become a social norm for this section, doesn't make it right.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Massacre_Melanie -the original Fire/Dark Corruptor -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=115217
The Guide to BURN
lol.....where'd the OP go? I always find it interesting when someone stirs up the community and isn't there to defend their opinion. I believe that is called a troll is it not?
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lol.....where'd the OP go? I always find it interesting when someone stirs up the community and isn't there to defend their opinion. I believe that is called a troll is it not?
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I don't think that's the case Rox.
I really don't believe that was the intention here... I think it was a mistake - a pretty bad one... but a mistake.
They're probably upset, I know once I've gotten a thread or group of people riled I need to take my time.
Not excusing the behavior mind you - but I don't think this was trollish
A Warrior's Friend: ID 335212 - Help Infernal save Valkyrie from Battle Maiden.
Above Mars Part 1: The Wellington: ID 159769 - Save Mars by destroying a monstrous battleship from the inside!
>.> My DA page, where I attempt to art.
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lol.....where'd the OP go? I always find it interesting when someone stirs up the community and isn't there to defend their opinion. I believe that is called a troll is it not?
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I don't think that's the case Rox.
I really don't believe that was the intention here... I think it was a mistake - a pretty bad one... but a mistake.
They're probably upset, I know once I've gotten a thread or group of people riled I need to take my time.
Not excusing the behavior mind you - but I don't think this was trollish
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Sorry it took this long for me to post this, but I've had some dealings with the OP (he wanted Mr. Majesty for a comicbook he was drawing with the hopes of publishing. I kindly declined his offer and encouraged him to create something of his own and reap all the rewards his hard worked earned him!). Turns out he's an enthusiastic 14 year old boy.
Yep, a 14 year old boy. I'm afraid his enthusiasm to own a piece of art from one of the MANY talented artists here short circuited the "good manners" part of his brain and he came across as a now christened "troll".
Given that you guys now know more about the OP, can we cut him some slack? I think you all posted some good etiquette tips and he'll learn from your advice, but I think prolonging this thread is just going to reduce it to unecessary flamming of a 14 year old kid.
Thanks and peace everyone.
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Well said WP.
Though, I do find it a bit comedic to see a person acting like a jerk while complaining about someone acting like a jerk. This is how you say...irony?!? 
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not really the OP was already known to be a 15 year old boy according to his post history he is also known for stalking Rowr on the Virtue Forums as well as getting a thread locked then deleted when called on stalking Rowr and he decided to go bat loco .
Secondly the moment you stated the above was likely the last time your words of wisdom and gentle advice in this thread really needed to be heeded .
If your going to try to browbeat folks for art expect people to get annoyed
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"ZOMG you ROXXOR my SOXXORS DRAW MEH!"
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I am totally going to use that one!
Flamming = jerk like behavior. My opinion. Feel free to agree or not. I just thought it bad taste to beat up on a kid...repeatedly.
That being said, I'm going back to enjoy some more art. Shake off the bad mojo and let the sunshine in! 
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I am totally going to use that one!
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heh~
...the sword is truth...
~whiteperegrine~
Let him have his opinion DB, everyone has one. And I am a jerk, but I'll admit that info readily and easily. The difference is that I don't care what people may think about me. Wrong is wrong and I'm not gonna sweep it under the carpet like so many others have.
The OP himself seems to simply not know what he's doing is wrong. Or he might and I'm giving him too much credit. I don't care either way.
The discussion was originally about him, but it's moved onto the masses here in the art forum. There's a lot more people around that are guilty of this beyond a single poster. A tolerance for this kind of behavior does not make it right. People might get mad for being called out on being art leeches, but that's pretty much exactly the truth. Especially when there are so many people here that go about it the right way and commission or make deals with artists legitimately.
http://www.virtueverse.net/wiki/Massacre_Melanie -the original Fire/Dark Corruptor -
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=115217
The Guide to BURN
omg Way to derail a thread!
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omg Way to derail a thread!
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haha
it's an aquired skill no?
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omg Way to derail a thread!
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Bad Shia, back into your box!!!
Valaraine: Master Archer & Electricity Whiz.
(Archer - lvl 50, swordswoman - lvl 50, Elec zapper - lvl 35, Ice/DB tank - lvl 50, Arch/En - lvl 26, Lvl 33 Blade wielder, trick archer - lvl 34, flame tank - lvl 30, rad specialist - lvl 44.)
My DA page
Hopfully you are not replying to me, though i know who your words are directed too.
First of all just drop it, this thread has gone on WAY to far and second, no one really calling anyone names. Both sides take a different stance on this subject and others tend to comment on that but you know what...everyone has a right to his or her opinion. If you do not agree then that is your right, just move on.
Personally I have seen a few of you as regulars in the art thread and from the few posts in this thread my opinion of those people have gone down a few notches.
Bottom line if you are going to ask something from someone please be considerate an treat those the way you want to be treated.....which i know is hard to do on the internet.
Let's all agree to disagree and let this thread fade away.
Valaraine: Master Archer & Electricity Whiz.
(Archer - lvl 50, swordswoman - lvl 50, Elec zapper - lvl 35, Ice/DB tank - lvl 50, Arch/En - lvl 26, Lvl 33 Blade wielder, trick archer - lvl 34, flame tank - lvl 30, rad specialist - lvl 44.)
My DA page
well that and my PM box is full but there's a half a million other ways to get in contact with me
but yes it would be more polite to ask and get agreement on art trade first rather than say do it do it nooow!
:P