Social FAQ: Anti-'R U Helar'

TheMightyStorm · 08-23-2006 03:22 PM

The AntiRUHelar FAQ v.002
*blasts thread*... it was a boring conversation anyway, Kali, we're gonna have company!

1. That's no Moon...

The RUHelar is a subset of player who will claim, honestly and sincerely, that without healing, the team falls apart and is utterly doomed. They do not mean, by this, that one should *have* access to *some* healing, or, necessarily, that someone who heals must do only that, but, rather, that there must be enough healing on the team to compensate for incoming damage. All or most incoming damage.

On the surface, no doubt this seems completely reasonable or sensible, or some other set of words that people use to indicate that they will not be moved to action. Yay them.

However, what it more commonly results in is several behaviors which are, at best pesky (Pesci), and at worst a deliterious force which is destined to ruin the game experience for all players, sending us into a spiral of depression which rapidly overtakes the earth, causing mass suicides, and leaving a lone weeping figure sitting atop a pile of former CoH/CoV servers, clutching at his scalp and muttering about 'The Vision'.

First behavior, most common, and the way we get the name are looking-for-team messages (not blind invites--talking is half the battle towards me giving a [censored] about your missions!), where the laborious process of asking 'are you a healer' has been updated and modernized, using the assembly, and no doubt some evil left over from the Holocaust, to be the far more efficient 'ruhelar?'.

Some people don't understand this problem. They either think nothing is wrong with this, or they think that the fact that 'leetspeak' is involved is the invalidating part.

Etiquette is all about not making other people feel uncomfortable. That's why it's not necessarily polite to say 'that phat [censored] is so fly, I'd like to break sommin off in her, *so* big, that after, she'll think childbirth is a heavy [censored]'. Oh snap. No, this is precisely the sort of thing you don't say unless you know your audience will not be uncomfortable with the idea. Similarly, when you ask someone to join your team, since it's not like you're interviewing for a job, it's more polite to ask them to join, and then work with what they have, rather than condition their acceptance into the group on having certain powers. After all, who the hell are you? If you want to audition people to join your team, why don't you just buy some extra accounts and play the game yourself, jerkface.

If someone joins your team, they're doing you a favor. Ask them their powerset afterwards. Have the decency to tailor the missions or activities of the group to the powersets that join, instead of trying to force the group to do a particular thing. *IF* the group is supposed to be doing a particular thing, then advertise that you're looking for teammembers in broadcast, for some particular thing. Try not to be too insistent or repetitive, and when people talk to you, warn them about any complications you forsee which might dissuade them.

If for some reason you get saddled with a mentally defective case who has no concept of how to use their powers (the claims that most ruhelars make to suggest that asking for healers is somehow a necessary evil), then the 'kick team member' button is there, ready and waiting.

Which brings us to the Second behavior. Kicking people from a team when you don't understand their contribution.

There are alot of folks out there who will boot when they don't see enough healing. Or merely because somebody keeps dying (usually themselves). Poor playing is dying just as much as it's poor use of powers. I'm not saying that every death has to be your fault, but if you can't charge head-long into the 8-man team spawns yourself and live through it, maybe you shouldn't. Yet the alleged support classes are the ones who bear the brunt of displeasure for the reckless behavior of team--because they are not utilizing enough of that glorious fix-all; healing.

There is a lot of wiggle room to argue here, like with semantics or over the details of a story. But rest assured (and here I do not fulfill my duties as a FAQqer...), on any given week, there will be a thread or dozen about bad episodes of teaming on the defender and corruptor boards, revolving around the ruhelar zeitgeist. Over time, its been proven to me, at least, that this happens to people who are a) not me, and b) not doing anything wrong. Believe me, I was skeptical at first too. I assumed it was because *I* was inadequate--in fact, this may very well still be true. But when I found out that <insert respected forum goer here> was booted from a team for <doing something which helps to support my point>, I knew it had to be true.

The 3rd behavior is to have a dimmer understanding of what 'defender' and 'corruptor' actually mean. The assumption becomes that some subset of defenders are healers, and that of that subset, empathy or thermal are the best. This is damaging to players who try other powersets, since they then contend with a lack of player knowledge which is partially due to a lack of motivation to learn; by simplifying the nature of a team to involve support as simply healing, there is no impetus to notice the difference between a kinetic and a radiation or whatever else.

2.1 Origin of Species

I once posted this In response to this person. who seemed nice.

He/She wanted to know why it was that 'defenders and corruptors hated healers'.

I am not aware of anyone who hates healers. However, the concept does not fit into this game.

It's because this game isn't (or at least wasn't) Everquest 1. And this is very specific, because people from UO do not [censored] and moan about healers.

In Everquest the healer was *absolutely* vital to the team, because there were encounters which *could not even be attempted* without some incredibaly beefy tank to hold aggro and a bunch of people chain healing him. The game was simply not designed for normal healthy gameplay; it was a triad of healers, tanks, and damage dealers of various kinds. The concept of buffing was secnodary, and debuffing? WTH is a debuf?!

They infected Dark Age of Camelot with this attitude. In Dark Age, the best way to level is to get a pet to wander out into a field of things that are waaay too high level to fight, put a damage-done-returned shield on them, and get several people chain healing. That's how I got from level 39 to 40.5

it was the dumbest thing I've ever done.

Healing is this game-breaking mechanism in these other games, because the systems are so incredibly simple. City of heroes is somewhat more interesting (not to say that it's AMAZING--but it *is* lightyears ahead of other mmos in terms of gameplay... maybe someone in Eve would argue with me, but in any case...). City of heroes is about comic books, adn in comic books, the only people who heal are the people who heal *themselves* for deus ex machina, or for fun or whatever. The typical healer role takes place in between comic book fights while heroes recuperate from being poked by a badger. A Mutant badger.

So these people with previous MMO experience come here,a nd they do what *anybody* does; they reduce their learning curve by finding analogies with what they've already done. That includes healers.

Keep in mind one of the biggest differences with this game is that there aren't any 'rest' cycles really. The rest button serves the same function as 'sprint' does in most games (a quick respite from a bad situation so you can come back rested and finish the fight--or a way to get across a difficult zone after being hit by potshots from high level enemies). Whereas this sprint button...there's no allegory really. To just let people run faster?! MADNESS!!

But anyway. They show up here and get into the groove. Since their way of doing things affects so many aspects of the game, such as lingo and expectations in team environments, new people who join the game learn a kind of hybrid-concept for the game. They don't just learn how to play *this* game. They learn how to play this game from the perspective of people who played a totally different game. People who are using metaphors and allegories to make this game easier for them to understand. There isn't a term like 'healer' in this game. There is the term heal, and there's the empath set which has some *excellent* buffs in it, and is more about providing buffs than it is about healing. But these aren't the 'healer' role. The guy who stands there and does NOTHING but heal--which is what the everquesting zeitgeist is all about. In this game, combat is supposed to be more fluid (and I don't mean kiting), and people are supposed ot have 2 or more different things they could be doing at a time. When they balanced CoV ATs, they did a much better job of making this clear. But even CoH ATs are unique in that *all* of them have interesting stuff they could be doing. A blaster *can* grab aggro and draw an overwhelming force off the tank while he takes care of business. I know, because I've done it (as a defender... not as a blaster... hehe).

This game really *deserves* the lingo it comes with. Words like defender and offender have waaay more meaning. Blastfender. Scraptroller. They help you understand the aspects of *these* mechanisms which are being emphasized. The old words like meatshield and healer are from a different system. They work here only as useful allegories.

But they're not useful allegories anymore. They're defining people's understanding of play. If you die, it's because someone didn't heal you, not because you didn't figure out how to take advantage of the defender buffs, or not because youw eren't in range to be healed by the transfusion. A buff is this weird deal. People don't notice buffs because, in Dark Age, or Everquest, the only time you *really* noticed a buff was when 3 druids spooged all over your face filling your entire buffbuffer, or when someone 20 levels higher than yuo wandered by and gave you enough power to take down oranges solo.

In this game, give someone Fortitude and it's a *big* deal. Even if it came from a *lower* level empath. Who has not loved the speed boost? Yet people are not familiar with the concept. Perhaps worse, the metaphor that defines the everuest playstyle involves healing and 'crack' or mana and endurance regeneration. Well in *this* game that all comes from one powerset, coincidentally. So instead of it being a quirky powerset, the defender's version of scrapper regen, it's *the* defining powerset that other ATs are comfortable working with. Early on that was how it was recognized, how it was billed, and how it's been perceived since.

This is the crux of our discomfort.

2.2 The response from EQ players

There were buffs and debuffs in EQ. Shamans and Enchanters.

Yes that's true. Enchanters, when they weren't dealing damage, were usually giving out 'crack', which is mana-regen. Shamans trafficked in the stamina version of crack which was needed by the non-magic oriented classes. The debuffs, while fairly potent, were largely irrelevant *or* an absolute requirement. They did not share the variety or spontanaeity of CoH or CoV debuffs. Buffs were either meaningless or hour-long 'equipment' that is part of the expecation of inviting a given class to the team.

In any case, you're talking about the end game and raid content.

That's also somewhat true, though a healer was still pretty important in the earlier game. But EQ was all about the high-end content anyway. Not to mention the fact that being exposed to high-end content gives one the sense of being experienced and having valid experiences to draw upon. So it's more likely that someone who spent a great deal of time in the end-game would bring the 'lessons' it imparted with them to other games. Which is particularly confusing in *this* environment, since virtually no buffs are fire-and-forget. They're all very short term, and a lot of people will consider them useless on that basis 'pentagram?, you have to rebuff every few seconds?'. That's exactly the sort of thing they'd say. Including the pentagram.

2.3 The impartation process (spam!)

Spam teaches people how to play the game. 'LFT 4 FF', if seen in the Hollows cries out to be understood. So the intrepid player will eventually discover, not just what this *means*, but also, what it implies. It *implies* that you need a team to defeat Frostfire. It *implies* that it's easier for some people to type '4' instead of 'for' which is weird, because it took me years to get comfortable hitting the number keys.

Now, assuming they level from 6-18 without seeing any of the content in King's Row (likely!), they wander out to Steel Canyon and see that people are looking for healers for Positron. They see that people are looking for healers for missions. Does it mean that healers aren't particularly useful? Or that they are *merely* one way to approach the game? No, of course not, in the information vacuum that exists inside the head of the new player, each question points to mysterious answers; dark secrets weilded by the masters of the domain--the obnoxious more experienced players.

Now, I'm not saying we're all obnoxious. In fact, on occassion, I strive to be helpful. This FAQ is not one of those times, but *still*, if it *were*, you'd know it. You'd *love* me. You sick sick person. But we, the established player base, by which I of course mean, the people who agree with me, and not anybody else--we aren't always in the mood to teach people about DOs and give enough advice for someone to actually find the infromation useful. Them's the breaks! You play the game to relax (probably), and teaching people how to stroke the mink in just that certain way that irritates the fur-is-murder crowd the most isn't relaxing. It's very stressful. I mean, for crying out loud, these people probably aren't even aware of what kind of hat most accentuates your snotty self-satisfied expression.

So, *actual* education of new players is in high demand and short supply (nobody's fault! Especially not mine), and secondary sources of information about the game are in high-supply. The first thing I had to ask about in *months* has been what QFT stands for (in the past I thought it meant 'Quit [censored] Talking', but it turns out it means 'Quoted for Truth', and it radically changes my opinion of like... 2 dozen posters), everything else, I just watch and assume. Like everyone does; after all, it's embarrassing to ask questions alot of the time, especially when you can just remain quiet for like 5 minutes, and *figure it out*. It's what we do in School. It's what we do at work. It's what we do in a marraige (oh? OH... Our anniversary. He's talking about our anniversary. That was like.. 2 months ago, though. *sigh* my children will all be stupid. ).

So the RUHelar thing, even without a specific educational process, is corrossive in and of itself.

2.4 Abused children

Of course this environment has had a long-lasting effect. New Defenders have come to believe that the most 'support' oriented defender was the Empath. The most 'support' oriented Corruptor was the Thermal. Players who've been scrappers (Pftang! HIsssssss) or blasters, or even tankers, have believed that 'healers' were the bee knees of defenders. So *they've* started these defenders with this in mind.

Empaths are the most numerous kind of defender. Also the most straight-forwardly acceptible to an 'ruhelar' request, and so the empathy set has become emblamatic of the defender class in general. It's become a class unto itself. This confuses the issue, certainly, but moreso, it deprives good people of a play experience they might enjoy. They see the concept of support as already decided; that *if* they want to *really* be helpful, and receive heart emoticons in abundance for their contribution, there's precisely one avenue to it. Doesn't help that Empathy sounds so fricking girly (Empath was the first defender *I* tried. I had visions of hugging). These people *might* enjoy themselves more as a support oriented Rad defender or support oriented Kinetic. But they've been unwittingly driven into a very specific role.

Furthermore, once there, they reinforce the stereotype. They are, in fact, enabling.

2.5 How to avoid Enabling as an Empath or Thermal

The issue that seems to continuously carry the day in these debates over the veracity of 'omg [censored]' and 'bbq', is what precisely it means to be a healer in this caustic environment in which infant forcefielders are abandoned on hillsides to dodge government quotas, and the kids who are turning trick arrows on the streets at night are reporting to the character tool in the morning for a deletion. So what does it mean, eh? What is it that you've unleashed on the world, Mildred, in your singleminded pursuit of the truth? Was it worth it, Mildred? Is this what you wanted?!

The tearful response is nearly always 'noooooooo *waah*', and so we come to the part of the guide in which I presume to suggest how others might play their characters--in what is clearly not only an overstepping of my bounds, but a bullying tactic which makes puppies weep. Am I abusive and evil? I can offer an uncomplicated 'yes' in reply.

But seriously, your powerset, lets call it 'sympathy', is one that contains alot of hitpoint buffs. What the kids these days, in fact call 'heals'. So what do do? Ignore all 3 of the powers to which you have access that are heals? Of course not! You *have* to take at least one of them, after all. I recommend the radial heal, since it also heals *you* (see the ruhelar faq). But you may notice, if you look slightly to the *right*... no... no farther... yeah yeah... no that's too far. It's in the middle. Yeah that's it. That's a powerset filled with direct damage powers. Don't be afraid to take some of those; believe me... you *can't* accidentally shoot your teammates. No matter how hard you try. Believe me. You can't trick the engine by targeting an enemy and then really quickly targeting a teammate and shooting. It won't work. If anyone finds out how, let me know, but until that day, the defender who wants to take their blasts is assured of never accidentally cooking the tanks brain with enough radiation to reduce it from a walnut to a peanut.

But lets assume, for the sake of arguement, that you have your heals, you have your blasts. You took some power pool powers, and you enjoy jogging and the opera. You're a well rounded individual, who I'm sure any girl would be proud to date; especially if they're a lesbian (if you're a girl). Happiness will be yours *some* day, but in the meantime, be content with this knowledge: You're not part of the problem.

"But, filthy anti-healer Jezebel, I don't have many blasts, I prefer to focus on the team."

That's wonderful, dear! I think people like you are rare gems of squirrely emotional turmoil who spread joy and happiness and are, in a way which confuses me somewhat, very defensive about it. Having you on a team is probably a great joy. Just be cautious in your role as savior of all teamkind that you do not operate under the illusion that, if you chose empathy, it was necessarily the best and only choice for team support; and, that, if the team is having a difficult time, and there are more deaths than we might perhaps want, the solution is not necessarily to bring in another empath. But to find another defender or even controller (*spits*) to assist in providing other forms of damage mitigation, crowd control, and safety for the waifish damage ATs in your charge.

The Mighty Scourge's Quick checklist of RuHelar enabling;
[ ] Do you use powers such that, occasionally, you are not healing, but helping in another way?

[ ] Are you accepting of other ATs regardless of powerset, so long as they're not a goddamned filthy [censored] scrapper?

[ ] Do you acknowledge that, even for the role of 'pure' support, empathy and thermal are perhaps not the best choices for all occasions? That other powersets out perform them in many cases?

[ ] Have you ever teamed with a Brute who took the medicine pool?

If you can check at least 3 of those boxes, then you're not enabling the ruhelar. Furthermore, you are pretty, and I would like to brush your hair.

3. Tetanus shots v. surgeon fish

One point which is brought up by people who find this to be a non-issue is the idea that most defenders can be 'healers'. That a dark with Twilight Grope (teehee!) can keep everyone molested (I mean healed! teehee) in a team, and therefore, be a healer. That's possible. Sure. We might even define someone as a healer if they have a 'heal'. Then we can include anyone with the medicine pool. Brutes and Scrappers. Positively everybody!

And, if we adopted this position, rather than a 'healer' being someone who single-handedly compensates for incoming damage, we'd probably be better off. But it's still somewhat indicative of a problem. After all, are we talking about the same thing? Is this 'healer' still required equipment in a game that drops green inspirations like water? Should *someone* always have a heal on the team? Because if *that's* the attitude, we might still be talking past each other.

4. Antihealers

There are no such things as antihealers.

Conclusions

Obviously someone who's healing is doing nothing wrong. Supporting a team is an act of love; like spanking a child. But *like* spanking a child, you have to do it in moderation, or various negative outcomes might occur (accrue).

What we're looking for here is a more DiabloII-like outlook on the situation. Damage mitigation is equivalent to healing. Increased damage output, means less damage over-time returned, which is equivalent to healing. Absorbing an alphastrike with a pet or something is equivalent to healing. After all, these are all hitpoints you wouldn't have otherwise. Diablo II has a similar setup to Coh and Cov; 'potions' are in great supply, and drop fairly frequently. Self heals are available to everyone as powers. You are always highly mobile (except for when you're suppressed... DAMN YOU STATESMAN!!! *shakes fist*), so you shouldn't *have* to stay in a hopeless situation (unless you're held, but then you have breakfrees and resists and colorful pants), and therefore the game dynamic is very different from something like everquest, DAOC, or Wow, where there are severe disengagement penalties.

A paradigm shift if you will!

and that explains why people refuse to heal or correct people in broadcast for asking for healers or whatever else. Nobody should torture puppies. But, we *should* encourage a more well-rounded view of team support.

Wavicle · 08-23-2006 03:45 PM

Good guide (is it a guide? I'm not entirely sure...)

I would add that an important part of being a good player in CoX is understanding how most (all?) of the different powersets work (in at least a basic way) in order to be able to adjust your own tactics to work well with whoever you may be teaming with.

Blasters who team with Kineticists, I'm looking at you...
Kineticists who team with Blasters, I'm also looking at you...

Anyone who teams with Tankers, yep you too...

I could go on, but it would pretty much devolve into a set by set list of every toon in the game, lol

Wavicle, Energy/Energy Blaster, dinged 50 in Issue 4, summer of 2005.
@Wavicle, mostly on the Justice server.

Nadezhda · 08-23-2006 05:49 PM

I love this... rant. I stopped playing my emp defender for a while since every time someone died on missions or TF's I was in it was always my fault for not healing... apparently I needed to be on both sides of the map where the team had split up. And according to most, I needed to have fort on everyone in the team at all times. I made a sonic/sonic defender as well, though, havent got around to playing her much, but I've grouped with screamers and its well fun. Anyway, this was a nice post, thanks for sharing it

Memphis_Bill · 08-23-2006 06:13 PM

Why should you get a radial heal?
Because it helps if you get a flat tire.

Entertaining, amusing... *Fires off HA* *follows with Cosmic Burst* ... and fun...

See my Guides and Tutorials

Spectreblade · 08-23-2006 07:09 PM

You make a good point about the "R U Helar" mentality. This is my first MMO, so I don't have the bias toward healing. I find that mentality annoying, especially on the villain's side, where the AT that gets this treatment is the corruptor. Just to remind you all, their primary powersets are geared toward ranged attack. Their inherent power is scourge, to help them finish off weakened foes. When I think of "corruptor", I think damage first and buffing/debuffing/healing second.

And on the heroes's side, If I find my team struggling, I might tell them "We need a defender." Not an empath. Certainly not a "Helar", a defender. Whenever I need a teammate for any role, it's the AT I look for, not the powersets.

Currently published Mission Architect arcs:
Arc ID# 70466: From the Abyss.
Arc ID# 403174: The Serpent's Revenge.
Arc ID# 534236: The Clockwork Angel.

Sister_Natalya · 08-23-2006 07:45 PM

Um...Its bad to ask if your a healer?..I mean sometimes a team needs something specific.

@Kirisani

IanTheM1 · 08-24-2006 01:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Um...Its bad to ask if your a healer?..I mean sometimes a team needs something specific.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on the context.

If you just randomly decided that you "need" happy green numbers above you head, then yes, it's a bad thing. Not taking damage >>> taking damage, then having it healed. Also, defeated foes don't do damage.

On the other hand, if you have a Kinetics user, a Force Fielder, and a Trick Arrow user, and you want to fill the gap in abilities (since none of those three sets are big on healing), then asking for an Empathy or Thermal specifically isn't a problem.

I think the key thing to remember here is that the term "healer" has been relagated to people who only take team-support powers. Generally an Empathy Defender with no blasts and lots of power pool fun, like Leadership.

My Empathy Defender is not a healer. She's a lot more versatile than that. On the other hand, Joe Schmoe's Empathy Defender might be a healer.

So, to sum it all up, if you have everything *but* healing, seek out something that specializes in it. If not, go with what you can find and don't discriminate. And never call anybody a healer unless they say that's what they are.

Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!

Minotaur_Warrior · 08-24-2006 01:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Um...Its bad to ask if your a healer?..I mean sometimes a team needs something specific.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

I will also ask similar questions to other AT's depending on what the existing team structure is like. Like 'R U Boss-killer or scrappy scrapper?' (scrappy scrapper would be claws/regen) or "R U AOE or ST" for blasters&corrs.

I also had a somewhat less ammusing miss understanding of what QFT meant, I thought it meant "Qoute [censored] Tag". The qoute is obvious, the [censored] puzzeld me, and tag is an alternative term for the more common bump.

DocPhotonic · 08-24-2006 03:03 AM

Recently, my Earth/Storm controller duo'ed with a lv 20 scrapper, in Talos.

He jumped into a spawn of four +4 mobs. With all my controls and debuffs, his health stayed in the green for the entire battle. I never once used my heal, O2 boost. Surprised that he survived the encounter, he turned to me and said, "nice healz."

Go figure.

Ghost_Warrior · 08-24-2006 08:57 AM

Thanks for posting in the CoX boards. I could care less for what happens in WoW and all the others MMO's or for that matter D&D or any other game experiences you may have. Keep posts related to this game only please and do not assume to know where other gamers develope game styles. Maybe the less than godlike players that have more things to do then play to your preferences don't want to spend time finding out if that(insert any other def/troller) knows what they are doing either. I've seen so many statements that nobody hates emp or healers or whatever but most of these Guides?(rant) all seem to be very dicouraging to anyone that dose'nt share your views. I am new to the game and i like the forums because they do contain some very good information but unfourtunately most are like this one. And big shockers, I know I'm not going to be the popular guy here and I don't really care. Please leave the forums for useful info.

QFT= Quit Freaking Typing

All forum gods can flame me and I'll still be ok.

Sharrow · 08-24-2006 09:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for posting in the CoX boards. I could care less for what happens in WoW and all the others MMO's or for that matter D&D or any other game experiences you may have. Keep posts related to this game only please and do not assume to know where other gamers develope game styles. Maybe the less than godlike players that have more things to do then play to your preferences don't want to spend time finding out if that(insert any other def/troller) knows what they are doing either. I've seen so many statements that nobody hates emp or healers or whatever but most of these Guides?(rant) all seem to be very dicouraging to anyone that dose'nt share your views. I am new to the game and i like the forums because they do contain some very good information but unfourtunately most are like this one. And big shockers, I know I'm not going to be the popular guy here and I don't really care. Please leave the forums for useful info.

QFT= Quit Freaking Typing

All forum gods can flame me and I'll still be ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have no idea how hard it was to resist replying to this with nothing but "QFT." (Answer: reasonably.)

Forum mod: less obtrusive signatures

LaughingRat · 08-24-2006 10:48 AM

I think I love you. Marry me.

Fire_Brick · 08-24-2006 11:52 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Now, I'm not saying we're all obnoxious. In fact, on occassion, I strive to be helpful. This FAQ is not one of those times, but *still*, if it *were*, you'd know it. You'd *love* me. You sick sick person. But we, the established player base, by which I of course mean, the people who agree with me, and not anybody else--we aren't always in the mood to teach people about DOs and give enough advice for someone to actually find the infromation useful. Them's the breaks! You play the game to relax (probably), and teaching people how to stroke the mink in just that certain way that irritates the fur-is-murder crowd the most isn't relaxing. It's very stressful. I mean, for crying out loud, these people probably aren't even aware of what kind of hat most accentuates your snotty self-satisfied expression.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't stop laughing for twenty minutes after reading this paragraph...I'm not sure why...

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for posting in the CoX boards. I could care less for what happens in WoW and all the others MMO's or for that matter D&D or any other game experiences you may have. Keep posts related to this game only please and do not assume to know where other gamers develope game styles. Maybe the less than godlike players that have more things to do then play to your preferences don't want to spend time finding out if that(insert any other def/troller) knows what they are doing either. I've seen so many statements that nobody hates emp or healers or whatever but most of these Guides?(rant) all seem to be very dicouraging to anyone that dose'nt share your views. I am new to the game and i like the forums because they do contain some very good information but unfourtunately most are like this one. And big shockers, I know I'm not going to be the popular guy here and I don't really care. Please leave the forums for useful info.

QFT= Quit Freaking Typing

All forum gods can flame me and I'll still be ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um...perhaps you should invest in a sense of humor. If the post upset you so much...why was it "worth" your time to read it, let alone your reply?

Besides, she speaks the truth! Don't believe me? Roll up an Emp Defender and concetrate on taking more powers from your secondary than your primary and see how many times other players refer to you as "teh gimped n00b". Or roll up any Defender for that matter and see how many /tells you receive asking the infamous question...R U H3L0R? The point she was trying to make (I believe) was that just because you are a Defender, you are not strictly a "Healer". The power set options for the AT offer quite a bit of diversity and you shouldn't allow yourself to be pigeon holed into a skill set/role based solely upon the chosen AT.

Just my two cents...

Fire Brick - Fire/Stone Tanker
Plasma Brick - Fire/Fire Blaster
Dark Brick - Dark/Regen Scrapper
Electron Transfer - Kin/Elec Defender
Zeake Ferrari - PB
Mr. Rick - Inv/SS Tanker
Einsiedler - Bots/Traps MM
Ice Brick - Ice/EM Tanker

One man's paranoia is another man's engineered redundancy.

Ghost_Warrior · 08-24-2006 12:46 PM

Its not just this thread, she has some comments in the defenders section also...same type of material but different poster. She also has a problem with Scrappers and Tanks. So i saw no value to this post. I have a kin/rad and a d/d and if someone asks if i'm a healer, i say "i do that too".

I guess my thoughts are instead of spending the time making a post about this topic, and yes it was funny, try taking one of these players and join their team and wait 4 teh h3lr to show and tell the player that asked that horrble question,"i'm gonna do my job and you watch and see how much the h3lr has to do his job." All that averted damage should help convert these players so that they will be like "aaahhhh, now I get it." Then you could come back online and and create at least a positive post. I have a sense of humor but I always pick up the I'm so much better/smarter vibe in these kinda posts that it gets to me sometimes. But alas why help fix a problem while its so much easier to just post about it.

Spectreblade · 08-24-2006 01:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
she speaks the truth! Don't believe me? Roll up an Emp Defender and concetrate on taking more powers from your secondary than your primary and see how many times other players refer to you as "teh gimped n00b". Or roll up any Defender for that matter and see how many /tells you receive asking the infamous question...R U H3L0R? The point she was trying to make (I believe) was that just because you are a Defender, you are not strictly a "Healer". The power set options for the AT offer quite a bit of diversity and you shouldn't allow yourself to be pigeon holed into a skill set/role based solely upon the chosen AT.

Just my two cents...

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only that, the original poster also pointed out that healing doesn't play as large a role in CoX as it does in other games, hence the flame-inducing mentioning of those other games.

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Quantum_Shield · 08-25-2006 02:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I guess my thoughts are instead of spending the time making a post about this topic, and yes it was funny, try taking one of these players and join their team

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just guessing, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the OP was posting from work... most people with 2500+ posts do. You can get away with forum posting at lots of techie and some office jobs. Playing CoX, not so much.

As for the rest of your post... either attitudes finally are changing or you're incredibly lucky. My nonhealing FF regularly got the comment "nice heals" from nonSG teammates. (My SG was smart enough to know the difference.)

The basic problem is that you expect people to be clever and reasonable, while in fact most people are morons. And there are so *many* of them, it's a never-ending battle. I play a superhero on the CRT, but I lack super-patience in real life. I tried the "explain" route a couple times and it didn't work so well. I tried the "not going to shield" route and it brought the point home quickly, but didn't leave me with terribly happy teammates. So now I don't try, and my FF def only comes out on request and for the occasional Hami raid. (And Storm Summoning, the OP's hero-side powerset of choice, is even worse to explain.)

Hell_O_Ween · 08-25-2006 03:54 AM

EDIT (last statement is very we are the world so feel free to not read it)

[ QUOTE ]
Its not just this thread, she has some comments in the defenders section also...same type of material but different poster. She also has a problem with Scrappers and Tanks. So i saw no value to this post. I have a kin/rad and a d/d and if someone asks if i'm a healer, i say "i do that too".

[/ QUOTE ]

Those posts in the other forums are pretty much along the same lines as this one. Tongue firmly in cheek.

Instead of tossing hostility towards the ruh3l4r crowd and inciting angry replies (well mostly), she used humor to get people to read a very long post that boils down to:

Defenders/controllers/corruptors/ect do more than heal.

The best teachers use a form of non-repetative repitition to teach a subject. Which is what she was doing.

[ QUOTE ]
I have a sense of humor but I always pick up the I'm so much better/smarter vibe in these kinda posts that it gets to me sometimes. But alas why help fix a problem while its so much easier to just post about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand why you think this. I found all the 'Listen to me cause I am the boss' type of statements to be used for humor, not intent. I suppose she could have prostrated herself at every turn saying things along the lines of 'IMO' or 'This is how i think you are free to think how you want and I do so appologize for taking up your time when you could be reading something else'. (Horrible exageration used for comedic effect..... ok...for attempted comedic effect)

Attempts to calm someone before making a statement in these forums are tiresome (still think they should be attempted normally). But in this case the attitude was used as a parallel to what she was saying.

As for her just posting instead of fixing the problem.....?.....
Isn't that what she was doing? Using a diffrent approach to getting people to see the game in a diffrent light....Yes her light and no you don't have to listen.

Going back to the idea of a teacher. The more sides we see to an issue, even if we don't agree, helps us understand more about the world (game) we play in.

Fire_Brick · 08-25-2006 07:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
The basic problem is that you expect people to be clever and reasonable, while in fact most people are morons. And there are so *many* of them, it's a never-ending battle. I play a superhero on the CRT, but I lack super-patience in real life. I tried the "explain" route a couple times and it didn't work so well. I tried the "not going to shield" route and it brought the point home quickly, but didn't leave me with terribly happy teammates. So now I don't try, and my FF def only comes out on request and for the occasional Hami raid. (And Storm Summoning, the OP's hero-side powerset of choice, is even worse to explain.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't have said it better myself. The reason the OP used the other games as a reference is...well...there are a fair number of folks out there who came from those games with the expectation that the ATs would perform and be utilized exactly as they were in the games they were coming from.

As I haven't played any of the other MMOs, I can't comment on the validity of her statements. However, "stupid is as stupid does". If a new player comes to the game and the people they team with only recruit Emp/Defenders because "without a Healer we're screwed"...it will most likely skew that players view on what a Defender is capable of, which only serves to perpetuate the cycle and mentality of RUH3l0R...

2 more cents from me...guess I'm up to 4 now...

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Mr. Rick - Inv/SS Tanker
Einsiedler - Bots/Traps MM
Ice Brick - Ice/EM Tanker

One man's paranoia is another man's engineered redundancy.

Ghost_Warrior · 08-25-2006 10:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The basic problem is that you expect people to be clever and reasonable, while in fact most people are morons. And there are so *many* of them, it's a never-ending battle. I play a superhero on the CRT, but I lack super-patience in real life. I tried the "explain" route a couple times and it didn't work so well. I tried the "not going to shield" route and it brought the point home quickly, but didn't leave me with terribly happy teammates. So now I don't try, and my FF def only comes out on request and for the occasional Hami raid. (And Storm Summoning, the OP's hero-side powerset of choice, is even worse to explain.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Couldn't have said it better myself. The reason the OP used the other games as a reference is...well...there are a fair number of folks out there who came from those games with the expectation that the ATs would perform and be utilized exactly as they were in the games they were coming from.

As I haven't played any of the other MMOs, I can't comment on the validity of her statements. However, "stupid is as stupid does". If a new player comes to the game and the people they team with only recruit Emp/Defenders because "without a Healer we're screwed"...it will most likely skew that players view on what a Defender is capable of, which only serves to perpetuate the cycle and mentality of RUH3l0R...

2 more cents from me...guess I'm up to 4 now...

[/ QUOTE ]

See more "people are morons" and we are so smart comments. Even "IF" it's true, what good is it to post it? Only the really "SMART" people are gonna read it right? To post these here are useless because the group that might need the info will not be reading it and the ones that read it don't need it. Does it just make you feel better about yourselves? It all goes back to trying to fix the problems instead of complaing about them.

And to Daemongelous, when the group said "nice heals" did you take the time to explain that you did'nt heal them, but rather protected them. At least they noticed something was going on.

Just lets please keep the forums for pertinent and helpful info.

Muad_Dib · 08-25-2006 10:30 AM

the way i read it, the OP has pertinent and helpful info, yours: not so much.

Hell_O_Ween · 08-25-2006 03:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
And to Daemongelous, when the group said "nice heals" did you take the time to explain that you did'nt heal them, but rather protected them. At least they noticed something was going on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh....that was the doc not me. I was the one who said this was a helpful post.

[ QUOTE ]
See more "people are morons" and we are so smart comments. Even "IF" it's true, what good is it to post it? Only the really "SMART" people are gonna read it right? To post these here are useless because the group that might need the info will not be reading it and the ones that read it don't need it. Does it just make you feel better about yourselves? It all goes back to trying to fix the problems instead of complaing about them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really really do not get where this is coming from. The OP and Cuppa_Fire_Brick do not sound 'we are smarter than you'. And I am baffled by the idea that 'no one who needs it won't read it'. When I started playing I read things on the forums to help. Then I dunno 2 years later maybe I started posting. It's entertaining and informative posts like this that helped me the most, I just wish I had told the OP's at the time.

I do have a couple questions for you tho:

How do you know that the OP isnt trying to help the situation in the game as well?

How exactly does this harm anyone or anything even if it dosnt help anyone?

Daemodand · 08-25-2006 03:47 PM

The problem with healing is that a team can take on challenges with it that they never could without. So "healers" are specifically sought out, and Defenders/Corruptors etc. of all types are asked if they can heal (becuase of this expectation). It is not necessarily the result of having come from a different game.

Yes, non-heal buffs help, but healing trumps them because it's the only buff that prevents faceplants. Non-heal buffs delay faceplants, and make them less likely overall, but healing outright does away with them for the most part. This is at the heart of the reason why "healers" are specifically sought out.

So it is partially people making analogs between a game they'd played previously and this one, but it's mostly the fact that healing enables a team to take on much more difficult tasks. No matter how good the non-heal buffs, no matter how good the team's tactics, healing will do this.

I don't at all like the culture this fact of life in the game creates. I have seen Trick Arrow Defenders asking if it's OK that they don't have heals (they should never have to justify their powerset choice to anyone). I avoid playing Defenders myself because I wonder if teams would take me (I'd most likely take a non-heal powerset combo). It shouldn't be that way.

Great guide BTW.

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Wavicle · 08-25-2006 03:57 PM

My experience says you are incorrect.

DEBUFFS allow teams to take on things that they would never attempt otherwise.

Not Heals, not Buffs, but Debuffs.

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JollyRoger · 08-25-2006 04:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
A paradigm shift if you will!

[/ QUOTE ]

That summed it up excellently! I've long been annoyed by simple (and often inaccurate) "role definitions" such as "healer" or "nuke" in CoX, though I hadn't entirely realized why. As you pointed out, those terms are from past games, and don't apply here. It'd be like going to EQ or DAoC and using terms like Defender or Blaster - they're close, but not the same.

LaughingRat · 08-25-2006 05:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My experience says you are incorrect.

DEBUFFS allow teams to take on things that they would never attempt otherwise.

Not Heals, not Buffs, but Debuffs.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true. A team can take on a MUCH greater threat if that threat can't even hit them then they could if they have to constantly undo the damage it's doing to them. Ounce of prevention, pound of cure and all that.

Healing is what you do when things have started to go bad. Other kinds of defender powers prevent them from going bad in the first place.