Is soul storm broke?looking for dev response.
By
Abigail Frost,
Posted on: 2006-07-26 13:27 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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That you lack the imagination or ability to come up with a counter to it is your problem, not mine.
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There is no status effect that should not be resistable with the proper applications of BF's or CM's or ID's. Your inital post upthread indicated that you feel that's not the case.
If you can resist it already, then what are you complaining about? All they did was make it so that when the animation is active you can use a BF to break out of it. Why does that make it so useless when it merely brings it into line with every other hold in the game?
If it's not a hold... then what is it?
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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But no hold should be better than a Dom's hold.
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Or a controller's for that matter.
This is just Smoke Grenade all over again...
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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Programer A: Hey hit me with that Ghost Widow hold...
Programer B: Ok... (acitvates power)
Programer A: Wait...the breakfree isn't working.
Programer B: Oh yea? I coded the animation as a constant knockback. Sweet isn't it?
Programer A: That's gonna piss somebody off for sure. Hey wanna get lunch?
Programer B: Sure. I'd like some Subway right about now.
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LOL
It was unique. It was cool. It was a little piece of power that wasn't like every hold in the game - thats what made it special and I imagine, so annoying for it's victims.
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It was unique. It was cool. It was a little piece of power that wasn't like every hold in the game - thats what made it special and I imagine, so annoying for it's victims.
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Yah, that's 'cause unlike every other hold in the game there was no resisting it, making it impossible to counter in any way. Not only is that grossly unbalanced (never mind that the dev team has just said that the fact that it's unresistable is a bug and not supposed to work the way it does currently... much like Smoke Grenade in the days of yore) but the only people for whom it's fun are the people using it on others.
It's an "I win" button. A bugged one, at that.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
Please stop saying that you can't resist it. You can't escape it on your own, if it hits you, if you don't have mez protection from some source. Saying it's unresistable makes it sound like you can walk up to a Tank and lol at him as you put the unresistable hold on him - it doesn't work that way.
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Please stop saying that you can't resist it. You can't escape it on your own, if it hits you, if you don't have mez protection from some source. Saying it's unresistable makes it sound like you can walk up to a Tank and lol at him as you put the unresistable hold on him - it doesn't work that way.
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Semantics.
It's a hold, like any other, meaning that you should be able to use a BF to get out of it. The fact that you can't has been acknowledged as a bug by the developement team and they will be fixing it. If you can break out of my blaster's hold, or my controller's holds or any other hold in the game, why should this one be any different?
Despite your snotty little remark about my lack of imagination in dealing with having to overcome a bugged power, it appears as though it is not my imagination that is lacking.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
The instant your controllers or blasters holds come from a pool with nothing else going for it that you're now locked into for no good reason we can talk about it being 'like any other'.
We were told the PPP's would infact be better than the hero equivalents. This power actually qualified. It makes zero difference in PvE, in PvP it can be effective but anyone who falls victim to it twice is either unlucky or not in the right team.
You're right about the snotty remark. It was uncalled for as this is hardly your fault and I apologise. I'm just annoyed that they have screwed this up but it's hardly anyone outside the dev teams fault and I should remember that despite the gloating.
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The instant your controllers or blasters holds come from a pool with nothing else going for it that you're now locked into for no good reason we can talk about it being 'like any other'.
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That's a problem with the way PPP's were implemented and has nothing to do with the fact that one of the powers in said PPP is unfair and unfun as a result of a bug. I've said before that I think it's stupid that villains can't respec out of their PPP's, so if you want to argue that point I'll support you. What I won't do is support the idea that a power should exist that negates action and effectively removes other characters from the game with no opportunity to counter.
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We were told the PPP's would infact be better than the hero equivalents.
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I find this piece of information interesting. Who said this and when?
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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The instant your controllers or blasters holds come from a pool with nothing else going for it that you're now locked into for no good reason we can talk about it being 'like any other'.
We were told the PPP's would infact be better than the hero equivalents. This power actually qualified. It makes zero difference in PvE, in PvP it can be effective but anyone who falls victim to it twice is either unlucky or not in the right team.
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Simple fact is, it's a hold. It doesn't say it's a super secret special hold, it says it's a hold. It doesn't say anywhere in it's description that it's better then any other hold, nor is it hinted anywhere that that is the case. To think that this hold in particular should be mechanically different then others is a bit on the silly side.
As previously mentioned, it's just another case of those that are using it and enjoying it's unintended side effect being upset that it's getting fixed. Anyone familiar with the game at all should have assumed this to be "not working as intended". To claim otherwise is ridiculous.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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But what would surprise me is if it was a bug for Ghost Widow and that we should be able to BF out of hers and they fix it so we can. That'll shock the hell out of me. 'Cause, see, then it wouldn't be har... uhh... I mean fun enough.
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Since the bug is in the animation, not the power, any fix will affect Ghost Widow's power, as well as the patron power version.
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Colour me shocked.
And my faith somewhat restored.
Thank-you, Castle.
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Colour me shocked.
And my lack of faith in Cryptic's QA process still irredeemably shattered.
Seriously, somebody fire them and be done with it.
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We were told the PPP's would infact be better than the hero equivalents.
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I find this piece of information interesting. Who said this and when?
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The Link
Matt Miller:
The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the equivalent powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character
That and having also read this: Talkin' 'bout Soul Storm
(relevant part of the interview inserted here):
Will the new power sets unbalance the game a bit to the Villains favor? What is your favorite new power set and abilities?
We certainly hope that there is a balance maintained between the two games, but sometimes its like comparing apples to oranges. At the end of the day you have to realize they are both food, with some commonalities like they both have calories and sugar content. We have to play with those commonalities to make sure that things remain balanced between the two games.
My personal favorite Patron Power Pool would be Ghost Widows. The Soul Storm ability is simply too awesome for words.
All this made me think that you know, maybe it wasn't a [censored] bug and it was actually just a cool power. Powerful in pvp: Yes. Easily countered by any experienced PvP'ers?: Yes.
[edit to insert bit about soulstorm so you dont have to read the whole thing]
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Matt Miller:
The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the equivalent powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character
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And under what circumstances are we supposed to believe that he was talking specifically about PvP when he said this? How do we know that he didn't mean that the difference in power was supposed to be reflected in PvE, ie; making Soul Storm a mag 4 hold, allowing one application to hold a boss?
Why are you assuming that it supposed to mean specifically in PvP? Why are you advocating for something that is totally and completely un-fun for anyone other than the person using the power? The way it works now is not balanced, which leads me to believe that though Matt Miller may have made this quote, that he likely wasn't talking about PvP in terms of increasing APP strength and power over EPP's.
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Powerful in pvp: Yes.
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Agreed. In fact, I think that's a gross understatement.
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Easily countered by any experienced PvP'ers?: Yes.
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More like; easily countered by anyone who wants to pop BF's like candy just to keep a constant application up because lord knows that if you get caught by a Soul Storm you're done. That's not right, man.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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But what would surprise me is if it was a bug for Ghost Widow and that we should be able to BF out of hers and they fix it so we can. That'll shock the hell out of me. 'Cause, see, then it wouldn't be har... uhh... I mean fun enough.
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Since the bug is in the animation, not the power, any fix will affect Ghost Widow's power, as well as the patron power version.
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Colour me shocked.
And my faith somewhat restored.
Thank-you, Castle.
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Colour me shocked.
And my lack of faith in Cryptic's QA process still irredeemably shattered.
Seriously, somebody fire them and be done with it.
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At this point I'll put up with crappy QA just to have my faith somewhat bolstered by the odd reasonable decision coming from the Dev team.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
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Powerful in pvp: Yes. Easily countered by any experienced PvP'ers?: Yes.
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How is it easily countered by any experienced PvP'er? What about those that don't have a status effect toggle? What about the team that doesn't have an emp or a kin in it. Show me the experienced PvP'er that can easily counter it in that situation.
To other posts after yours, the QA team may have some issues and made some bad mistakes since launch, but it's still head and shoulders above other major companies. That doesn't mean some of their more painful messups are ok, but it should still be considered when general slams are going to be issued.
"His Imperial Majesty's Minister of Restraints and Leather" -LHF
Two naughty acronym teams / Ascension / Convenient / Artic and the Chillz / Fap / Other teams I can't remember (sorry.. mind is goin')
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Matt Miller:
The Patron Powers are stronger and more powerful than the equivalent powers in City of Heroes (the Ancillary Power Pools), because there is less diversification and the fact that Patron choices are permanent alterations to your character
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And under what circumstances are we supposed to believe that he was talking specifically about PvP when he said this? How do we know that he didn't mean that the difference in power was supposed to be reflected in PvE, ie; making Soul Storm a mag 4 hold, allowing one application to hold a boss?
Why are you assuming that it supposed to mean specifically in PvP? Why are you advocating for something that is totally and completely un-fun for anyone other than the person using the power? The way it works now is not balanced, which leads me to believe that though Matt Miller may have made this quote, that he likely wasn't talking about PvP in terms of increasing APP strength and power over EPP's.
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Because it is not a mag 4 hold. It does not affect bosses in 1 application. It doesn't ignore anyones mez protection. It is in no way remarkable other than once it has you, it doesn't let go. You're the one trying to put your spin on what he said. He just said they'd be more powerful than their equivalents on the hero side. It's not a long winded, ambiguous statement. Whatever psychic abilities you have which let you know what Matt Miller meant to say when he said it are your business alone.
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Powerful in pvp: Yes.
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Agreed. In fact, I think that's a gross understatement.
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Easily countered by any experienced PvP'ers?: Yes.
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More like; easily countered by anyone who wants to pop BF's like candy just to keep a constant application up because lord knows that if you get caught by a Soul Storm you're done. That's not right, man.
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If you're a squishy in PvP you're vulnerable to holds. If you're a Tanker or a Scrapper then you have nothing to fear from this power unless you get many thrown at you at once. A group of controllers can do the exact same thing to me, they will blow through my mez protection, they will outstrip breakfree's unless you eat them like candy. Starting to sound familiar?
Getting held isn't the end of the line in pvp. It might be if you're out on your own without anyone to help you but whenever that is brought up in any context people scream 'get a team'. The same applies here. CM makes this power as useful as any other hold when you don't possess another to stack on top of it.
Based off your mag 4 statement I'm starting to get the picture that you dont have this power and really don't know much about it other than iyou don't like it, therefore it's got to go.
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Powerful in pvp: Yes. Easily countered by any experienced PvP'ers?: Yes.
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How is it easily countered by any experienced PvP'er? What about those that don't have a status effect toggle? What about the team that doesn't have an emp or a kin in it. Show me the experienced PvP'er that can easily counter it in that situation.
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So what you're saying is, if a member of your team gets held and they don't have a break free on them then they are doomed and there is nothing you can do to help/save/comfort them in their time of need? Because they would be in exactly the same, apparently unwinnable situation.
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I can't say I'm surprised. A patron power that was actually useful.
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Are you serious? It's a hold, like char from the blaster Flame EPP. You use it, if the target has resists then it won't work, if they have a BF they can get out of it.
Are you saying that the only way that this power is useful is if it's irrisistable? Please tell me I've misunderstood and you're not complaining that they took away your un-resistable power for which there is no counter.
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No, I think what he's pointing out is that standard holds are more or less useless in PvP 
Is this the same thing that causes you to animate multiple vomits when hero heavies fail to put a hold on you?
HAHA, oh yeah, no one cares!
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Whoa. Those Stalkers I've seen with that patron are going to be TICKED when that happens and no respeccing out of it. yeesh!
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Unless they're like.. eight years old, I really don't have an ounce of pity for anyone who takes that spin on this. Someone had to have been nuts to think that the current behavior was intended or balanced. That it would be corrected was so totally obvious to me it's just not funny.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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That it would be corrected was so totally obvious to me it's just not funny.
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That's my attitude as well. I've given up arguing with Dragonov as there's now way he's gonna see it. He wants his toy and that's all there is to it, regardless of how blatantly unfair and unbalanced the power is and despite the fact that the dev team has said that it's as a result of a bug.
The bottom line is that the people complaining about this Fix (yah... fix, not nerf... it's a FIX) fall into the same category as the people who cried and screamed about Smoke Grenade getting fixed back in the day.
Brother of Markus
The Lord of Fire and Pain
The Legendary Living Hellfire
Fight my brute!
I note with pride at this juncture that my Ice/Dev has never, not even briefly, had Smoke Grenade. 
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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It was unique. It was cool. It was a little piece of power that wasn't like every hold in the game - thats what made it special and I imagine, so annoying for it's victims.
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It was BROKE. If the devs intended it to work this way, don't you think they'd have document the, "Once your held you cant get out" aspect of the power? It's BUG people. Like someone said before, it's just like smokegranade. It's not being NERFED, it's being FIXED. And as such, I don't think they should try to rewrite the whole PPP system code to allow you to repick patrons.
There's no way you can tell me with a stright face you honestly belived that mister, "fighting statues is boring" statesmen would allow a unbrakeable hold to be added to his game do you?
@KingSnake - Triumph Server
@PrinceSnake
My common sense is tingling... ~ Deadpool
If you can't learn to do something well... learn to enjoy doing it poorly...
To be honest this isn't unexpected, but it just highlights how unfair being locked into patrons is.
It's not my fault that they screwed up. They had this on test for quite a while, in development even longer and yet it made it through into the live game. Now I'm stuck in a patron pool that is much diminished in it's pvp usefulness and unlike everyone hit by the smoke grenade I'm trapped in it.
Before I took any of my patron powers I read up on them. I checked the Ghost widow thread. No mention of it being bugged there at all. I checked the known issues page. Nothing. If in over 20 pages of discussion about the powers Ghost Widow grants nothing is mentioned about it having a known issue thats due to be fixed then the faint belief that it 'might just work like Ghost Widows' took seed. Her version ignored my integration and eventually after much stupidity I realized that a preemptive bf every 30 seconds would keep me safe from it. The player version is nowhere near that effective.
If they're going to screw up, they should fix their problems properly and thats not just the power it's all the players caught in their wake.
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Well, it's just that since we're promised "hard numbers" for PPPs, you'd think the Holds would be better than usual.
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And where are the numbers wrong? The problem is that no hold in the game is supposed to be unresistible. Breakfrees not working if you are caught in Soul Storm is not working as intended.
And I have no problem with Soul Storm outperforming, say, Ice Corr holds. But no hold should be better than a Dom's hold. Currently with Soul Storm being the only unresistible hold in the game, it is infinitely better than anything else out there for PvP.
You are bitter because your "Ha ha I laugh at your twisting body while setting up AS and talking smack and you cant do anything about it" button is going bye bye.
M'Teru couldn't get the job done. So she sent Mot to Astoria. Bad call.