I started testing Weaken for PvP from Poison.

It looks like this power doesn't do everything it says. Please, if a power boosts the effects of powers or decreases the effects of powers it would be very nice if the developers would actually say specificaly what effects and powers are affected by the power.

Straight up, I can say that the power does not reduce +perception from a self buffing toggle.

It does not reduce the amount of health regained by a Regeneration scrapper useing Reconstruction or Dull Pain. Which is odd because the power says specificaly that it will debuff the targets healing powers. It does not do so in any way in PvP. If that is a bug then please fix it. If that is a typo in the help then please correct every instance of it.

These are the only two aspects that I have had time to test fully others that I am planning to test are +res buffs, +def buffs, +recovery buffs, +regen buffs, +stealth buffs.

Why am I testing this? Simply because the power says that it reduces the effects of the targets powers but does not say exactly what effects it actually affects. Lack of clear descriptions on powers is getting to be very annoying.

As I have stated, I have only started testing this. I will continue to update this as I test. I know many things have been claimed about this power but I am trying to confirm or deny as many claims as I can so that we the players know what game we are actually playing.

Good news is that the power does seem to reduce mez effect duration in half in PvP.

If touch of fear had a longer recharge timer, that would actually be worthwhile

The description for this power is more than a little confusing.

Is it saying that...

1) ALL secondry powers are weakened.
2) Heals, defense buffs, endurance drains, disorients, holds, immobilises, knockbacks and more are also weakened from whatever set they come (1st, 2nd or pool and epic sets)

Or is it saying...

1) That if the secondry set includes heals, defense buffs, endurance drains, disorients, holds, immobilises, knockbacks and more...that these will be weakened?


My final question is....what does the "and more" include?

It really did nothing to a regen scrapper? Wow.

I remember testing it against a Robot/Traps MM who had Repair, Aid Other and Aid Self. For all three powers it cut off half of the base (Repair healed his robots by 50%, Aid Other lost 50% of the base but kept the enhancement bonus, and same with Aid Self). I'm surprised it doesn't work on Regeneration's powers.

+Perception works oddly, but I wouldn't have expected it to work on that anyway. I assumed any purely defensive (resistance, defense, healing) based buffs would be reduced, but it seems to be a case of the power description suggesting it is far better than it actually is.

A question though I have about the mez durations...was the Touch of Fear slotted for duration? If so, did weaken reduce the total enhanced duration by half, or only cut half of the base duration out?

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It does not reduce the amount of health regained by a Regeneration scrapper useing Reconstruction or Dull Pain. Which is odd because the power says specificaly that it will debuff the targets healing powers. It does not do so in any way in PvP. If that is a bug then please fix it. If that is a typo in the help then please correct every instance of it.

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That is a bug. The power IS supposed to debuff all healing; in PvE it will chop a critter's healing powers by fully 50%. Reconstruction and Dull Pain should be no different.

Note, however, that it's been reported that Weaken and Envenom (which gives your victim resistance to healing) are not interacting properly, at least when it comes to self-heals. The tester reported that a Freakshow actually recovered more HP with his self heal with both debuffs applied, than with just one sticking to him.

Odds are it's a bug with Weaken/Envenom and self heals in general.

I haven't seen that bug myself with Freakshow, but I can tell you that Envenom did reduce the amount of healing that the regen scrapper could do and applying Weaken made no difference. I tested that specificaly.

Also the duration seems to be a quarter of what it is in PvE. So, don't expect to apply the debuff to more than one person because you practicaly have to spam it to keep someone debuffed. Very endurance intensive.

Weaken works as a reverse Boost Power. you can't enhance +perception, +res or +stealth, so I see no reason why this should reduce those effects. +regen is something different. This works against effects, like mez, end drain, probably defense, slows, etc. Everything that Power Boost/Power Build Up works to improve on your heroes, Weaken works to lessen those effects on your enemies.

If it is not working for reconstruction and dull pain, that does sound bugged, but most of the stuff you mentioned I see no reason why it should work for them. I've seen Freakshow's dull pain reduced from weaken. Those EMP grenandes that 40+ longbow spec ops throw that completly drain your end... Hit them with weaken, and it probably won't drain a quarter of your end. Hit someone that mezzes, and you won't be mezzed for long.

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Weaken works as a reverse Boost Power.

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Just to note, so far I have not found this to be a good indicator of what this power can do. I see it said very often but I have not seen anyone actually go down the list of what Boost Power can do and say that they have confirmed that it does indeed debuff all those things.

In particular right off the bat, I can say that I have not been able to debuff movement speed with Weaken although that is something that Boost Power boosts.

If this debuff is in fact supposed to be a reverse boost power then it may as well say so in it's description. Since it doesn't say so, I see no reason why we should assume what the power can and cannot do until we actually test it.

I think the problem your seeing is the issue with weaken and envenom stacking.

Other then that I can't agure it would be nice if it had all the effects of powerboost in reverse.. but on the slip side IIRC even though envenum does not stack weaken does if you can pull them out fast enuogh. (post SOs for a few recharges)

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I think the problem your seeing is the issue with weaken and envenom stacking.

Other then that I can't agure it would be nice if it had all the effects of powerboost in reverse.. but on the slip side IIRC even though envenum does not stack weaken does if you can pull them out fast enuogh. (post SOs for a few recharges)

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No, I tested that. They apparently do not stack. As soon as the new debuff icon would appear the old one would go away according to the person I was testing with.

Also, this is not due to any Weaken + Envenom bug that may exist. Each power was tested by itself and then combined. Weaken did nothing to prevent any of the healing methods of the regen scrapper.

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I think the problem your seeing is the issue with weaken and envenom stacking.

Other then that I can't agure it would be nice if it had all the effects of powerboost in reverse.. but on the slip side IIRC even though envenum does not stack weaken does if you can pull them out fast enuogh. (post SOs for a few recharges)

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No, I tested that. They apparently do not stack. As soon as the new debuff icon would appear the old one would go away according to the person I was testing with.

Also, this is not due to any Weaken + Envenom bug that may exist. Each power was tested by itself and then combined. Weaken did nothing to prevent any of the healing methods of the regen scrapper.

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Hmm,.. I always heard it did but never tested it thats good to know.. on a sidenote theres a topic HAHA dark vs poison that gives some useful tested numbers.

Poison could probably use a boost when taken from a purly numerical standpoint.

I just want to keep you guys updated. I know so many of you worry about the poison secondary as much as me (cricket, cricket) well, maybe not. In any case, I PMed Cuppa who informed me that the issue is not in the Bug Database and that Castle would indeed be my best bet in getting some attention to the bugs.

PMed Castle this night.

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Poison could probably use a boost when taken from a purly numerical standpoint.

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There is no doubt in my mind that this is true.

Weaken reduces all the same effects that Power Boost increases, and Damage.
Namely:
All Damage Types, except 'Special' damage
ToHit and To Hit Buffs
Disorient, Hold, Immobilize, Sleep, Confuse, Terrorize, Knockback, Knockup and Repel
Run Speed and Flight Speed buffs
All Defense types
Heals
Endurance Buffs (like Stamina)

Uh... have you tried using Concern's metric, testing it against a Regen Scrapper in PvP?

I just reproduced similar results as he did, so there might be a problem somewhere.

EDIT: Will try to get a /demorecord.

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Weaken reduces all the same effects that Power Boost increases, and Damage.
Namely:
All Damage Types, except 'Special' damage
ToHit and To Hit Buffs
Disorient, Hold, Immobilize, Sleep, Confuse, Terrorize, Knockback, Knockup and Repel
Run Speed and Flight Speed buffs
All Defense types
Heals
Endurance Buffs (like Stamina)

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Then I feel certain that it's bugged. Without a question a doubt or a worry that I could be wrong. Something ain't right if thats what is should be doing. And it doesn't stack right with the other one.

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Weaken reduces all the same effects that Power Boost increases, and Damage.
Namely:
All Damage Types, except 'Special' damage
ToHit and To Hit Buffs
Disorient, Hold, Immobilize, Sleep, Confuse, Terrorize, Knockback, Knockup and Repel
Run Speed and Flight Speed buffs
All Defense types
Heals
Endurance Buffs (like Stamina)

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That will cut down my testing alot. Thanks for the reply Castle.

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Weaken reduces all the same effects that Power Boost increases, and Damage.
Namely:
All Damage Types, except 'Special' damage
ToHit and To Hit Buffs
Disorient, Hold, Immobilize, Sleep, Confuse, Terrorize, Knockback, Knockup and Repel
Run Speed and Flight Speed buffs
All Defense types
Heals
Endurance Buffs (like Stamina)

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That will cut down my testing alot. Thanks for the reply Castle.

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Yeah thanks for the clarification castle.

It doesn't stack with itself either. I don't get that, it recharges fast enough, it's Clearly poison's version of Siphon-Power, and that stacks with itself just fine. What's the problem here? If it's not going to do what it says against everything it's supposed to do it against, then tell Geko to make the damn thing Stack from the same source so we atleast get some real use out of it in other ways and have a reason to slot it up....sheesh

I have to test how well it works on Fly buffs. I have fought melee users in the Arena and the debuff did not appear to do anything to them so I think more testing is warrented.

It could just be the same issue that every non-accuracy related debuff power has. Enhancements are enhanceing the base power not affected by the debuff which is then added to the debuffed base number for the power. This makes -dmg, and various other debuffs pointless in PvP at times unless they have rediculous debuff values. Weaken doesn't have any rediculous debuff values.

This power should get around defense debuff resistance however. I will have to test that as well.

IT's a good power. IT's just single target.

The rest of the set is pretty lackluster tho.

Poison would actually be a good utility set in PVP if MMs had any survivability whatsoever.

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IT's a good power. IT's just single target.

The rest of the set is pretty lackluster tho.

Poison would actually be a good utility set in PVP if MMs had any survivability whatsoever.

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We know it is a good power. I just want to make sure it is actually working. Sue me.

Tested on a Regen Stalker in I7 (neither power has changed from I6)

Level 12, no enhancements in Weaken or Dull Pain:
Normal: 102hp healed Weakened: 45hp healed

Level 12, 3 level 15 DO enhancements Dull Pain:
Normal: 161hp healed Weakened: 104hp healed

Level 50, no enhancements in Weaken or Dull Pain:
Normal: 407hp healed Weakened: 104hp healed

Level 50, 3 level 53 SO enhancements Dull Pain:
Normal: 803hp healed Weakened: 499hp healed

Looks like it is working correctly for Dull Pain. However, for Reconstruction, it appears the heal amount remains constant, which should not be possible with the way it is set up.

I'll add it to my list of things to fix.

Yay! I can't wait for my next match with a certain Regen scrapper.

Looks like Reconstruction is set to ignore external Buffs and Debuffs. I'll have to talk to geko about it later and find out why it is set that way.

It may be working as intended.