So is regen gimped for stalkers or are people dumb
By
Angry_Citizen,
Posted on: 2006-02-06 06:06 in Stalkers
Like I said before, I did not use it much, frankly I did not use my heals that much. I ususally do hit and run...
AS the first,
hit the second with a stun,
placate and take down the 3rd,
then take down the second.
If there are more than 3 .. I usually do the run behide object, hitting them and running around, while my health regens, and I am immoblizing them, this is where the DP bug came in. while running back to hit 1 or the many mobs after me, I could Crit them even if they hit me as I was running up to them.
Like I said, I did not use it much, but It did come in handy. I am just upset that SR get so much.. (well from what I heard) and Regen does not.
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And if you're saying that dull pain won't be "useful" to you anymore, thats either an incredible exaggeration, or an incredible downplay of how significant dull pain's net benefit to regen is.
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I'll just get to live a little longer and tickle people with my moderate non-EM non-crit damage.
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I'll just get to live a little longer and tickle people with my moderate non-EM non-crit damage.
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I know exactly what you mean. Seem funny that they are "Fixing" DP. when EM has damage that rivals hidded crits.
Tabbitha wrote:
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Exaggerate much? Aim (or Build Up with toHit slotting) is sufficient to trump the entire benefit of the SR and Ninitsu defense lines for 10 seconds, barring the activation of level 38 powers. You make it sound like that they can stand in the midst of enemy fire and can ignore it at will. It's flatly untrue.
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You are talking about PvP, what about PvE?
Also what if SR takes a few purples? Does that not push there defence up??
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Uh, I've lost track. Are you trying to say SR is better than Regen because it can take purple inspirations and get a higher defense?
Uh...why can't REGEN take those inspirations and get an almost-as-high, or higher (for the cost of one more inspiration), defense, AND still have its full suite of self-healing abilities?
Bringing purple inspirations into this discussion would seem to decisiviely swing the advantage to Regen.
If that's NOT what you're trying to say, I'll need more explanation before I can figure it out.
Sailboat
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
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I'll just get to live a little longer and tickle people with my moderate non-EM non-crit damage.
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I know exactly what you mean. Seem funny that they are "Fixing" DP. when EM has damage that rivals hidded crits.
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if EM isn't nerfed soundly in issue 7, i will be quite suprised. I wouldn't hold up EM as some example of unfairness just yet.
Level 50 is a journey, not a destination.
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I've lost track. Are you trying to say SR is better than Regen because it can take purple inspirations and get a higher defense?
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Not saying that SR is better, just wondering about it's defences
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why can't REGEN take those inspirations and get an almost-as-high, or higher (for the cost of one more inspiration), defense, AND still have its full suite of self-healing abilities?
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SR has already high defences. Regen could not take enough purples to catch up with SR, as SR could just take more, and sense there defence is already higher, they would always be higher in defence with the same amout of purples.
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if EM isn't nerfed soundly in issue 7, i will be quite suprised. I wouldn't hold up EM as some example of unfairness just yet.
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I am not saying it is unfair.. Just suprised me that they seem to "tweak" the things that are talk about on the boards, and EM was talked about more than anything.
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I'll just get to live a little longer and tickle people with my moderate non-EM non-crit damage.
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My MA/nin got to 40 just fine primarily landing crits from the alpha strike or placate, and only rarely "standing while waiting to rehide." If I wanted to rehide (especially if placate was taken out by slows), I would run to break LoS. My SR stalker would more often "stand and rehide" but only on teams when aggro had been mostly diverted - attempting to rely on defense to deflect every shot for 10 seconds to rehide for a crit when solo or if you have any significant aggro while teamed is both highly risky and very inefficient. The only stalkers I've seen do that also run to break off constantly if even one thing is shooting at them. I've never seen anyone consistently use the behavior you're claiming is necessary for stalker success.
If you're talking about PvP, then even more extremely I've never seen a stalker attempt to use *defense* to rehide; they might get lucky doing it, but more often they dash off for a second to break off combat to give hide a chance to reestablish. Its bordering on suicide to simply hope your opponent will miss for ten seconds unless you are eluded. And while you are waiting to rehide, you are sacrificing 10 seconds of damage to get one crit: unless its an assassin's strike, thats a net loss in damage. Even if it is an AS, its still bordering on break-even. In PvP, I *never* stop fighting for ten seconds to rehide, unless I'm hurt and attempting to buy time to heal (or my opponent is trying to break off and its unlikely that I'm going to catch him quickly); the rehide is an extra bonus. If I'm still in fighting shape, I press the attack because the loss of damage during the ten seconds isn't worth it.
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I don't think regen is gimpy as a stalker set.
However, I find it amazingly stupid that I can kill myself with two uses of energy transfer while I'm in a MoG. And that using MoG drops me out of hide.
Do any other stalker secondaries actively work to negate the AT signature power?
It seems like some of the power sets weren't properly thought out, but that's just me.
The one thing I did never understand about MoG is why it works the way it does. Why lose 3/4 of your health and get like 75% (or whatever) resistances in the first place? Does MoG really need TWO crashes these days?
And I have yet to see anybody in charge explain why MoG needs two crashes when the other 'ultimate' melee powers don't. It's not like when unstoppable crashes you lose ALL RESISTANCE for 10 seconds. Or all your +Def when eluding falls apart. Meh.
I love the power on my scrapper for emergencies, but it just doesn't seem to cut the mustard for my stalker unfortunately - what with every enemy group seemingly having tactics ( and that's just in PvE! )
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especially if placate was taken out by slows
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Where can I find information on attacks, like what they do. I did not know that slows can slow down the recharge timers. I just thought they slowed your running speed.
I like the Nin and SR examples when talking about Regen, but no matter. The people I run into all seem to enjoy running, so I take what opportunities I have to finish them as quickly as possible.
I was going to use a comparison between Metal Slimes, criticals, burst attacks, whittling, and my opponents, but eh... not everyone knows what I'm talking about, there. =P So, I'll just say this:
Instead of giving them time to gauge whether they should run or not by whittling away at their hp by scrapping, I'd much prefer to fire off my burst damage while they're beating on me. One swift hit; a sudden drop in hp.
While you may accumulate more damage than I would, in those same 10 seconds, your target has a chance to run, halfway through, while you're firing off multiple attacks. Mine doesn't (unless they're the type that runs as soon as they hit yellow) due to all the damage coming in one shot. Unless, of course, you're paired up with a Dominator. Then I doubt you have much to worry about.
Bare Bones Example:
Turns> 4
Opponent> 300 hp, makes a flee check at the end of each turn, will run immediately when hp is dropped below 45%
You> 1 Attack per Turn, Each attack does 80 damage
Me> 1 Attack at the beginning of the final turn, Attack does 300 damage
While it IS a silly example, that's basically what we're doing. You may be doing more damage in the same period of time, but I'm not giving the opponent a chance to run, because they think they're engaged with easy pickings.
This post is horrendously repetetive. Go me!
I just gotta say this Choff I love your avatar! lol on the other hand Regen is pretty cool Dull pain is awsome and but i do miss QR 
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especially if placate was taken out by slows
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Where can I find information on attacks, like what they do. I did not know that slows can slow down the recharge timers. I just thought they slowed your running speed.
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It's somewhat notorious for having powers errors in it, but it's hard to beat this tool as a starting point. It has a ton of information on most powers. What I recommend is that you double-check the information on powers you're particularly interested in by checking the info here on the forums (either in the players' guides section or the archetype forums).
And hey, if you do find an error, let the author know. He's been pretty good so far about updating the database.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Tabbitha wrote:
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I've lost track. Are you trying to say SR is better than Regen because it can take purple inspirations and get a higher defense?
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Not saying that SR is better, just wondering about it's defences
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why can't REGEN take those inspirations and get an almost-as-high, or higher (for the cost of one more inspiration), defense, AND still have its full suite of self-healing abilities?
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SR has already high defences. Regen could not take enough purples to catch up with SR, as SR could just take more, and sense there defence is already higher, they would always be higher in defence with the same amout of purples.
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This is based on a misunderstanding of the caps.
The minimum chance to hit is 5% (currently -- will probably change for some powerful npcs in I7). So everyone will always have a 5% chance to hit, even with one million defense. That's called "flooring" the chance to hit; it's the opposite of a ceiling.
SO in your experiment, after a certain number of inspirations (and it's not many), SR floors a given opponent's chance to hit. After ONE MORE (or 3 more, in the case of Elude), Regen has ALSO floored the foe's chance to hit.
Now BOTH are hit only 5% of the time -- but Regen is recovering from the damage like, well, only a Regen Scrapper can.
Because the caps exist, Regen always can -- and always will -- catch up to SR's defense, in an inspiration-popping race, because after a certain point more defense does not help at all.
Sailboat
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
That guy was dumb last night *while pvping of course* I teamed with a regen/spine stalker and he never died and killed everyone in Bloody Bay at least twice and called it out.
The stench of undeath clings strongly around this one.
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That guy was dumb last night *while pvping of course* I teamed with a regen/spine stalker and he never died and killed everyone in Bloody Bay at least twice and called it out.
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You sound like an 8 year old talking about his favorite wrestler.
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Imagine what a Super Reflexer could do. Not attack for 7-8 seconds and, as long as they weren't hit, re-Hide on the spot. NO PLACATE INVOLVED. That is what I'm talking about with Dull Pain. Instead of Scrapping away at their resistances and heals, I could re-Hide by taking their hits, (in some cases) hoping they don't kill me, and not attacking. In which, I could then AS (if they didn't fire off an AoE or hit me with something else). The Dull Pain bug was a knockoff of being able to dodge attacks to re-Hide WITHOUT Placate.
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Um, SR defenses reduce the chance to be hit to about 1 in 4, verses regen who even without SR defenses is only being hit about 1 in 2. The difference is significant, but not astronomical. If an SR stalker has aggro, she doesn't stand there waiting to rehide; unless you're only attacking one thing, that's virtually impossible. I only do the stand and rehide thing when I have no aggro at all, or somehow have bought myself some time through other means (if I'm playing ninjitsu, sometimes that "other means" is using caltrops). I can really only stand and rehide when under elude/Kuji-in Retsu if I have any significant aggro.
My understanding of the dull pain bug is that its consistently allowed regen scrappers to rehide *better* than having normal defenses a significant amount of the time, by essentially ignoring hits.
You don't get to rehide as easy because your damage mitigation is superior. That's the trade. And if you're saying that dull pain won't be "useful" to you anymore, thats either an incredible exaggeration, or an incredible downplay of how significant dull pain's net benefit to regen is. You're attempting to build a defensive stalker with the regen set: that simply wont work.
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