Whirlwind changed in last patch?
By
Aaron123,
Posted on: 2006-01-23 08:57 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
The reason that Defenders have not been nerfed yet is that most player, most of the time, don't play them.
Once everyone is playing Defenders (look for this soon), then they will be adjusted.
Only the "Known" powers get nerfed. I have no idea if this is because not enough time is spent on Balancing (really, this is a bad thing), or if the Players are really THAT inventive.
I can say from personal experience that 2 hours with Hero Planner and good knowledge of the game will reveal many, many "exploits".
I don't understand how someone whose 40-hour-a-week job is "CoX", even if power balance isn't a major component of their job, doesn't know more than many players.
Let me guess, does WW still pre-emp power animation rooting? A major "balance" feature to blast sets? 
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
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And the people that cry DOOOOM can't seem to see that exploits *must* be blocked off, or eventually more people will be taking advantage of it.
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Respectfully disagree. I am harmed much less by an exploit than by a nerf. Impairing the fun of many for the sake of balancingthe few is not a good idea.
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Until the few become the many because of the exploit. Why do you think so many people take Air Superiority these days when it once was considered weak. Obviously the new ragdoll effects have opened up a few exploits that people are just starting to see. Once word gets out, a lot of people will be taking advantage. Curiously, I have seen more people with WW in the last few weeks than ever before. I thought it was just my imagination, but apparently there was a reason.
MMOs are the only large-scale software which even attempt to inform you of all changes. Nobody else even bothers, because they know it is an impossible task. Yet you guys expect perfection.
When's the last time your ISP released a note to you that told you they changed some software? Do you get mail from your telephone company? Your cable company? When you download the latest patch from Microsoft, how much of what it really does does it actually tell you?
Frankly you guys overreact to the fact that people are not perfect. No amount of double checking will guarantee that everything gets in the patch notes.
How can you compare a MMO to a phone company ??
As long as I can phone, that they dont make me pay three times the price I dont give a damn if they added a cable between point A and point B...
But for a MMO I pay to enjoy playing, to build a character so I spend time doing so. If they change every single mechanic in the game and dont tell you, what will you do ? Their job to find it out ?
Maybe they should make the game like SWG and dont tell us, we will never notice.
Poor Logic in this post.
As yes, I do expect that the service I pay for meets a standard of quality.
That fundemental changes are implemented and documentation is not properly updated, is actually unacceptable.
People make mistakes, I accept this, HOWEVER making the same mistake over and over and over and over indicates that either the activity is NOT a Mistake and is in fact accepted practice internally.
OR
That the practice of documentation of issues (Check the known issues list please and tell me that it is accurate based on the technical issues forums/petitions etc.)
and their repairs is not considered a priority nor is the informing of the customer considered a valued or proper practice.
In this last Patch, how many "Undocumented" changes were found?
I know of at least 2, that had major easily identifiable effects
(Knockdown/Knockback and Whirlwind) on the player base.
That these changes were "not listed" in the patch notes is an issue.
Moreover, considering that the current "Known" issues listed still has items several months old, that have not been adressed is a problem.
Additionally, according to the forums several long standing issue exhist which continue to be ignored
I.E. The Stunned Mob Bug.
So fundementally while a change to Whirlwind would seem fairly minor, and in fact it may be.
The issue becomes a question of "WHY" fix something which was not listed as an issue, when several KNOWN problems exhist and have plauged the game for a very long time?
I suspect it is because the Devs currently spend an enourmous amount of time playing/testing PVP, and issue arise in this area that they feel they need to "fix"
Fine and dandy, HOWEVER making a universal change to a game based on one aspect (PVP) without any regard to how this change will affect a fairly large percentage of the subscriber base and then "Fail" to document said change (repeatedly it seems, as this pracitce is fairly common from my reading on the boards) Is a BIG ISSUE.
And it ties to consumer satisfaction.
Honestly, If I had not received the 2 free months for COH/COV I am not sure i would be playing/paying.
In the scant time I have been a subscriber my BASIC play style has been altered three times, in a period of 76 days.
And thats just what I can figure out has changed, and does not count the basic fundemntal Quality of Life issues that are suffered.
I.E. Randomly being punted from my SG base, after having purchased COV just to enter said base.
Which is a documented and know issue, unlike the ones which were change.
So color me confused as to why we need to just suck it up and deal with it, or accept yet another
"Ooops, sorry I forgot to write that down while I was recoding the game"
Rant Off.
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hmmm well thats a great fix for PvE, but how about a fix on the PvP side where meleers lack the ability to chase down a WW range opponent??
ei: anyone can get Web Nade to stop opponents with hover, and many ATs and powersets already include a -fly attack. Super jumpers/Super speeders have to stop to shoot or attack and then there's some suppression. TP takes up too much end to exploit like whirlwind, and the animation time in tp puts them at risk still. TP foe, SS, and Fly can be made useless with Slow debuffs. But what counters WW+SS+CJ+SJ?
My Point? every travel power and pool powers such as TP foe, hover, CJ, hasten, acro, etc. have an inheret weakness except WW+ any travel.
Point #2: WW by itself is a great and fun power because the user fights with the advantage WW provides and a draw back to. He still can be hit and he can attack while moving. Great! no problem there. The problem begins when the user combines WW with another travel power (this is especially so with CJ, SJ , and SS).
Point #3: So many players already agree that WW needs to be changed in PvP; however, the devs are faced with two very different communities that use WW for differing purposes. PvEers use it for extra control, while in PvP, WW is used to gain extraordinary survivabilty and it almost invalidates entire melee ATs. But if the devs nerf WW by increasing its end cost or getting rid of WW's ability to shoot while running, the PvE community will get upset.
Solution: WW should not be abled to be used with other Travel Powers. PvEers seldom use it with another travel power since it drains to much end. I've only seen it used to impress people in PvE. In PvP a blaster or controller can circle around a melee AT as they shoot away without ever getting touched by the meleer. Squishy ATs also have a hard time locking down a WW user since the user would be out of range if he/she is in trouble, then come back when they can take advantage. WW+SJ is an Escape power that is always on unlike Pff or PS where the user cannot attack and has to deal with animation time. Basically it is very hard to lock down a WW user while the user can attack in safety .
What do you guys think of my solution???
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Good post, i agree with the point made. For the solution look like a good one.
This power is broken especialy for pvp. It enable poeple to use power without stoping. And as far as i know, using a broken power to have an advandage over something is called an exploit.
But if you look at pvp fights, at least 80% of defender and controller use this power because it enable them to use their powers without stopping at all, negating completly melee at, enable them to pursue or being pursued and using power without losing any distance etc...
FYI, most of us are not saying it's an exploit. Many of us, through experience and fact, believe it is overpowered as it is now in PvP.
It being over powered in PVP caused Cryptic to make a change that spanked all of its PVE usage.
Same with Knockback, travel supression etc.
They keep hosing the entire game to balance PVP, and if all COx was PVP then that may be okay.
It's hard to swallow for us PVE types.
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Also, someone earlier mentioned team tp is a useless power. I use it all the time on one of my characters and no I won't say how or why. But it is FAR from useless.
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I love this. Nothing says "Over-nerfing" like "not going to post my strategy because it will get removed".
This is yet another red-flag, but it either isn't seen or isn't important. Maybe we should use another flag color, for a change of pace?
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?