Why is base building so discouraging?
By
AimlessWanderer,
Posted on: 2005-11-23 23:30 in Base Construction
I am the co-founder of the F.E.A.R. VG. We only have 8 gaming members but have 24 characters (each of us has 3) in the VG.
The reason we got involved with CoV was the enticement of the bases and raiding for IoP's. We have a SG in CoH "Unexplained Investigations" and we wanted to have a base for CoH so we bought CoV and decided that a base in each group would be great. We were involved with beta testing and got the 2 day head start. We have worked our main characters up to level 25. Some of which have been gaining prestige since OutBreak. In CoH, we have roughly 50 characters but only the same 8 players. Our highest level characters are closing in on 50 and they have almost all of the badges and accolades in the game. We have almost all of the TF badges at this point too. As you can see, we play the game for the content.
Our main goal was to get to a PvP base and do the trial for an IoP then tryout the raids. Now that the misty rose colored glasses have been removed, we realized that there is absolutely no way we can achieve our goal. We are a small group that has been playing together most nights of the week for about 3 hours per night over the last 1.5 years. We have a lot of fun trying to do all the content of the game. We have our own style of play that has been altered a great deal lately with the changes in the game due to herding, number of targets affected by Nova, Blizzard, Psychic Wail, and Inferno, and now the enhancement changes.
We can no way, no how get to an IoP because of the number of people it takes to do the mission. If we split into 3 groups during the mission we will have max 3 players on one team. Not going to be enough to do the trial. Also, we can no way shape or form get to the prestige needed to build a raidable base and pay the rent. Thus, we changed our goal and gave up on being part of the PvP IoP portion of the game. Truly disheartening that we can't enjoy the full content of the game and keep only our close group of friends in the VG.
So we have decided to just make the base as functional as possible for our use. Now, the items we want to place we cannot create because the healing badge for the SG is bugged, we don't have enough salvage, and we don't have enough prestige to place it when we can create it.
All in all this has been an extremely frustrating venture into CoV and one that will end relatively soon I believe. We have started playing our CoH characters again and are not even thinking about building a base in CoH. There is much more content and fun things to do in CoH at this point and no reason to pursue a functional base in the near future.
*Frustrated Sigh*
Keep in mind, there's a few things you can do:
Temp sg members from coalition groups to help with the raid
Stealing someone elses item of power
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Currently listening to New Order's Substance 1987
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Victory Server: Join Victory Forum for team forming and general game chat and IRC Chat: irc.hashmark.net #victory for offline chatting.
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It occurred to me last night they may not know if they have the server resources to handle massive base building or even maintain tons of bases. I wonder if prices are high because they haven't been able to stress test the system using just the Test server population?
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Charging 600,000 - 7 million to place items we have EARNED the schematics for and EARNED the salvage for and EARNED The room it goes and EARNED the plot upgrade is just not right. A device costs more than the freaking plot!
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They are still trying to mask they don't have content. If you want better, try WOW. Of course you can't fly there 
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LOL, sadly it's starting to sound convincing... 
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WoW is great 1 to 60...after that you better be an elite gamer in a large Guild because it is all loot based after that and the greed really comes out in people.
The problem I see in these games is that all developers using the same thinking to solve the end game problem, which isnt very good to begin with. *Barf!*
There is no reason what so ever not to allow Super Bases (for example) to be more casual and easier to obtain/maintain. The argument of developers is..."well the items you get shouldn't be available to everyone". Why not?
Why not instead, design it so that the end game items perhaps give you a % greater percentage of something the more you scale up the difficulty (i.e. difficulty of the missions).
For CoH/CoV example...
-- Super Bases costs reduced so that smaller Super Groups can afford them on a more causal basis.
-- Raids for Items of Power - The more difficult you make the Raid the greater power the (Item of Power) is if you are successful for your SG. By doing this it is 'possible' for a 5 man team in a SG to have a equal level item of power of a large SG.
-- Perhaps increase the number of items of power you can have based on the number of 'accounts' (not characters) in your SG. i.e. something like 1 to 5 (1 item), 6 to 15 (2 Items), etc....
-- Percentage base on SG numbers the type of stuff destroyed vs how much it cost to replace so it does not discourage people BUT at the same time doesnt allow for massive build of up Prestige, etc... There has to be a way to take Prestige/influence out of the game but not so much that it is painful to do things.
--and so on....
Holy cow! This isnt Rocket Science. This way everyone (casual gamers and large SGs) have and can do things and reasons for them.
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There is no reason what so ever not to allow Super Bases (for example) to be more casual and easier to obtain/maintain.
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What if the content isn't even finished? Would that be a reason?
I'm sure there ARE reasons; they simply aren't apparent at this time.
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All in all this has been an extremely frustrating venture into CoV and one that will end relatively soon I believe. We have started playing our CoH characters again and are not even thinking about building a base in CoH. There is much more content and fun things to do in CoH at this point and no reason to pursue a functional base in the near future.
*Frustrated Sigh*
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This is the problem with the vague term "long time goal"
The Devs have thier own idea what a long time goal is and the size a SG needs to be to complete it.
Players all have their own Idea.
Without any clear guidelines on the terms from the Devs, the players are left on thier own and can get frustrated if they feel the goal they precieve is not obtainable. They will then just give up on the goal.
Which will make the bases into Arenas, a place used by only small part of the player base.
I don't mind That the light is at the end of the tunnel. Just let me be able to see the light.
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The Devs have thier own idea what a long time goal is and the size a SG needs to be to complete it.
Players all have their own Idea.
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Additionally we have not been told:
What size SG (in terms of players not toons) are devs basing their projections on?
Will the upcoming apartment/hideout system use poretige or some other currency?
Will the upcoming apartment/hideout system be for lone heroes/villains only or can a number of players share an apartment? If so, what is the maximum and does it come close to the number being used as the ideal SG? Can I have 8 people share my apartment and SG bases are meant for groups larger than a single team?
I bought CoV so that my son and I could build a base together. I knew that he would love it (being a 6 year old who loves things like that). I realized that with just 2 people we would never have anything flashy. However, I hoped that we would be able to build a small base that might give us some kind of perk.
Then I played with the builder and realized that was never going to happen.
If it were me, I would make the prices for things scaling. You want your first room, it costs X, then the next costs 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc. Put those kind of controls in for all of the items and then a small group could build a moderately functional base while a larger one can pull down the resources needed for a truely impressive one.
Another thing to keep in mind is that by making bases so expensive, you are going to disuade people from raiding if they find that they can't keep their bases intact.
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I bought CoV so that my son and I could build a base together. I knew that he would love it (being a 6 year old who loves things like that). I realized that with just 2 people we would never have anything flashy. However, I hoped that we would be able to build a small base that might give us some kind of perk.
Then I played with the builder and realized that was never going to happen.
If it were me, I would make the prices for things scaling. You want your first room, it costs X, then the next costs 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc. Put those kind of controls in for all of the items and then a small group could build a moderately functional base while a larger one can pull down the resources needed for a truely impressive one.
Another thing to keep in mind is that by making bases so expensive, you are going to disuade people from raiding if they find that they can't keep their bases intact.
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A suggestion - create a lot of alts and get them in that "supergroup". You get 20K per member up to 15, and so it won't take long to have enough prestige for a decent social base where you can have lots of fun with the base editor.
I think prices are way too high. I'm in a specialized SG that only adventures together. It would add to our enjoyment to use the mission computer for SG task forces (when they're created). Even dumping the savings of several 50th level alts into the base, I'm doubting we'll ever go beyond having the base worktable.
But, to give them credit, the bonus does pay for a social base.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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"Poz, are you really so blind as to think the recovery chance matters? If there is even the POSSIBILITY of all the prestige needed to put down the stuff needed for a base raid will disappear..."
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You know that when items get destroyed, you get all that prestige back, right? Nothing is lost other than the Salvage.
But, like so many others, I feel rent has GOT to go. It's the worst part of the entire COH/V system.
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"Poz, are you really so blind as to think the recovery chance matters? If there is even the POSSIBILITY of all the prestige needed to put down the stuff needed for a base raid will disappear..."
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You know that when items get destroyed, you get all that prestige back, right? Nothing is lost other than the Salvage.
But, like so many others, I feel rent has GOT to go. It's the worst part of the entire COH/V system.
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Oh?????? If this is so, if we can rebuild items that were destroyed, that puts a completely different complexion on it. I had presumed that you would NOT get the prestige back.
Where did you hear that we got the prestige back? If a redname can confirm that, it will do a lot to assuage some anxieties.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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I am just dissapointed because my SG of 5 RL friends and a couple of additions wants a base...not a raidable base just a base.
but to get the function we want we'd need a power room, control room, work room, teleport room, infirmary, and a hall. At 150k a room that's 900k just for rooms. All that prestige just for the ability to rez at your base and teleport to hazard zones.
I like the idea of having general rooms (power, control, infirmary) be cheaper and having raid specifc items and rooms cost more.
That way casual gamers/SGs could get a functioning base reasonably quickly. While big active groups who would want to (and would be able to) do trials and raids would have a higher goal to work at.
My friends and I were very discouraged when we saw how much we had vs. how much we needed to build even the smallest base, and now we have 998 rent due on our entrance portal. Anyone know how to erase your base?
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Just want to chime in to be one of hopefully many voices heard on this subject. This is our VG's almost exact situation and attitude about the whole base issue. We really like it. We are really trying to make it work, but it is very discouraging. Every time we chat about it, we wonder why the core systems are so expensive.
Essentially we want Zone TP, medibay/rez circle (that returns you to point of death like the hero's does), that thing I heard a rumor about that sells you and purchaces from you inspirations... and really some decorations... oh and the mission computer... we are just now scrimping just enough for the mission computer so we all don't miss the level 20 to 25 SF ...while we are still in our 20s. (a couple of us are going to have to exemp down as is.)
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Oh?????? If this is so, if we can rebuild items that were destroyed, that puts a completely different complexion on it. I had presumed that you would NOT get the prestige back.
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And of course, as is the norm on these boards, you decided not to bother finding out the facts, but post a long-winded rant instead.
And people wonder why the developers don't take these boards more seriously... 
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Oh?????? If this is so, if we can rebuild items that were destroyed, that puts a completely different complexion on it. I had presumed that you would NOT get the prestige back.
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And of course, as is the norm on these boards, you decided not to bother finding out the facts, but post a long-winded rant instead.
And people wonder why the developers don't take these boards more seriously...
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Of course. How SILLY of me to assume that when something I've purchased gets destroyed, I get a full refund. After all, when my car gets totalled in an accident, the car dealership offers a full refund. Or, for a game example, when my enhancements have gone red, I can pop them off and get a full refund.
If I've missed a statement somewhere that you get the prestige back when something is destroyed, then mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. But I think that would have jumped out at me, just like it did in this previous post. If it's hidden deep in a help file...I'll suggest it be placed in a more obvious location.
I'd really like this confirmed by a redname. Given that, when this issue was raised, the only comment was "there's a chance it won't be destroyed", I still have my doubts. If it's true...why bother with the add-on that increases the chance that items won't get destroyed?
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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I'd really like this confirmed by a redname. Given that, when this issue was raised, the only comment was "there's a chance it won't be destroyed", I still have my doubts. If it's true...why bother with the add-on that increases the chance that items won't get destroyed?
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aye what is the point of having something that increases the chance an item won't get destroyed?
AND a redname has never confirmed that you will get your prestige back if an object is destroyed in a real read. Real raids don't even work on test at the moment so don't listen to any players either cause they will just be lying to you or repeating wrong information. The fact is that this is still a mysterious factor that is discouraging people from commiting to base raids.
and as Gadget Don pointed out, since there is an option for a base item that WILL increase the chance your stuff won't get destoryed, it seem preety likely that you will not get a Total refund of prestige on the items.
*speculation time* of course the base chance that something is compeltly destoryed could only be 25%. (75% chance to keep) and the add-on item is 5% increase per add-on. now those arn't bad odds to start with and makes the add-ons very nice to have.
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I bought CoV so that my son and I could build a base together. I knew that he would love it (being a 6 year old who loves things like that). I realized that with just 2 people we would never have anything flashy. However, I hoped that we would be able to build a small base that might give us some kind of perk.
Then I played with the builder and realized that was never going to happen.
If it were me, I would make the prices for things scaling. You want your first room, it costs X, then the next costs 2x, 3x, 4x, 5x, etc. Put those kind of controls in for all of the items and then a small group could build a moderately functional base while a larger one can pull down the resources needed for a truely impressive one.
Another thing to keep in mind is that by making bases so expensive, you are going to disuade people from raiding if they find that they can't keep their bases intact.
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Yeah, like the post after yours said, load up your group with alts that never play so you can get the full 300k. I've done this and actually have two random alts (actually used "random" button for costume) named "Random Dude 1" and "Random Chick 1" to be used for this purpose. You can easily get the entrance room and 5x5 decorative room for 150k prestige. That leaves 150k for decorating as you like. Believe me, 150k for decorations will give you a pretty detailed and swanky base. It just won't "do" anything. If you have a toon on Freedom, I can show you one I made for one of my alts. In-game I'm @Dr. Feedback. Good luck!
"...freedom isn't a commodity to compromise." -- Captain America, New Avengers #21
Guide to Base Teleporters
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Of course. How SILLY of me to assume
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Exactly.
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Of course. How SILLY of me to assume
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Exactly.
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I note, in extracting that one part, you didn't bother to mention where you are receiving your information that you do get a refund on destroyed information. Is this somewhere available, or are you perhaps making an assumption.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
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My other gripe is the amount of prestige earned while in supergroup mode and how it scales with level. It's pathetic. It's discouraging, and when you're no longer earning infamy for being in SG mode, it's insulting. The bases and raids and Items of Power were hyped and marketed and people are excited to use them and the whole system is prohibitively slow for most users and most supergroups. My supergroup in CoV, Psychosis, has quite a few players and most of us are very active, playing every night for hours, and we're not even close to having enough prestige to build a raidable base. What's the point of designing the system and making it nearly impossible for the majority of the people playing the game to experience fully? Increase the amount of prestige earned and give more people a realistic shot at experiencing the raid system.
This whole system feels clunky, arbitrary, ill planned, and rushed.
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I am also co-leader of a small COV SG. We have around 32 members, of which probably half are on regularly. There are about 8 of us in the 25-28 level range, who had been the primary prestige earners for the team, until the decrease started kicking in at level 25. I have seen a marked drop in our rate of prestige earned. As Guardian Gaz said, what makes this even worse is the decrease in infamy as well. Now we are at a point where we want to buy SO's, but you have to make that choice between earning prestige for the group or earning infamy for yourself. It makes no sense. I would think that the higher level characters, as high powered representatives of their SG, should be earning more prestige than anyone else. All this system does is discourage people from playing in SG mode later on. And then it adds guilt to it!
When a game goes from being fun to being work, you can count on seeing people leave. The bases simply don't provide enough reward for the amount of effort put into them. Even if we could afford to build a raidable base, in the present system I see no real benefit to having one. Most IOPs give an extremely modest increase (I have heard 1% typically) to an attribute. But losing a raid means more than losing the IOP; there may be many items destroyed which will require the SG to go out and earn a ton of prestige to replace.
Right now we have a functional base, with a teleporter, workbench, and rez ring. As chief architect, I try to add something every week to keep it interesting. The teleporters have proved very useful. But the rez ring is a disppointment. Why not let us rez at full health? And we'd love to have a nice inspiration dispenser, but apparently we have to get the healing badge first, and of course, with the badges constantly resetting who knows when that will be possible.
I don't want to just complain, so here are my suggestions:
1. like another poster or two have said, why not split the bases into raidable vs non-raidable? And adjust costs from there.
2. make the IOP something really worth having. At least a 5% increase to a statistic.
3. Currently it seems like base attackers have nothing to lose really (besides the 100K payment). But the defenders have everything to lose: the IOP as well as repair and replacement costs. Give defenders an award for defending the base. And limit the amount of damage that can be done to a base to something like 5 or 10% of the total base cost.
4. Have the Mission computer give out multiple SG only strike forces. Perhaps we will see this in future issues.
5. Abolish the placement costs of crafted items.
6. Do away with the prestige vs. infamy system after level 25...it is discouraging (especially to small SGs).
I really want to enjoy COV, but more and more it feels like work to me. And don't get me started on the lack of new content... still fighting COT and freaks?! I still feel it was rushed out, but I'll wait until at least the next issue to see if we get any resolution to these problems.
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I am just dissapointed because my SG of 5 RL friends and a couple of additions wants a base...not a raidable base just a base.
but to get the function we want we'd need a power room, control room, work room, teleport room, infirmary, and a hall. At 150k a room that's 900k just for rooms. All that prestige just for the ability to rez at your base and teleport to hazard zones.
I like the idea of having general rooms (power, control, infirmary) be cheaper and having raid specifc items and rooms cost more.
That way casual gamers/SGs could get a functioning base reasonably quickly. While big active groups who would want to (and would be able to) do trials and raids would have a higher goal to work at.
My friends and I were very discouraged when we saw how much we had vs. how much we needed to build even the smallest base, and now we have 998 rent due on our entrance portal. Anyone know how to erase your base?
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Just want to chime in to be one of hopefully many voices heard on this subject. This is our VG's almost exact situation and attitude about the whole base issue. We really like it. We are really trying to make it work, but it is very discouraging. Every time we chat about it, we wonder why the core systems are so expensive.
Essentially we want Zone TP, medibay/rez circle (that returns you to point of death like the hero's does), that thing I heard a rumor about that sells you and purchaces from you inspirations... and really some decorations... oh and the mission computer... we are just now scrimping just enough for the mission computer so we all don't miss the level 20 to 25 SF ...while we are still in our 20s. (a couple of us are going to have to exemp down as is.)
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I am one that feels the same way as well. Don't want a "raidable" base. Just want what they want above. Something with just a few bells and whistles so we can do a few extra things that will make our villian lives a little more easier. Exactly like they have said above. I would like to build a small base with an infirmary, a workroom, a teleporter and a "commons" area for our small group to be able to "hang" out if we want. we are a small group.
As to the one question about deleting your base, you don't have to pay the rent just let it go. You won't lose anything. Just when you are ready to continue just go pay it. Back rent does not accumulate.
I was intrigue by the theory earlier in this post about the devs not having the content behind some of the larger buildable items, which is why they are so expensive to place. Very possible they don't have the code in place to actually make the stuff work..........very good theory from whoever thought of it.
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I am also co-leader of a small COV SG. We have around 32 members, of which probably half are on regularly.
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This discussion is failing, in part, because we have a really broad definition of "small" being used here. I've been admonished for calling my 14 member SG small and here you're calling a 32 member SG small?! There's no way I could call a 32 member group small given the upper limit is 75. What then is an average group? A mid sized group? A large group? A very large group?
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I am also co-leader of a small COV SG. We have around 32 members, of which probably half are on regularly.
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This discussion is failing, in part, because we have a really broad definition of "small" being used here. I've been admonished for calling my 14 member SG small and here you're calling a 32 member SG small?! There's no way I could call a 32 member group small given the upper limit is 75. What then is an average group? A mid sized group? A large group? A very large group?
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agreed, 32 members is by no means small. To me 15 or under is small. 
15-40 = medium
40-60 = large
60+ super
at least IMHO
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I am also co-leader of a small COV SG. We have around 32 members, of which probably half are on regularly.
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This discussion is failing, in part, because we have a really broad definition of "small" being used here. I've been admonished for calling my 14 member SG small and here you're calling a 32 member SG small?! There's no way I could call a 32 member group small given the upper limit is 75. What then is an average group? A mid sized group? A large group? A very large group?
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agreed, 32 members is by no means small. To me 15 or under is small.
15-40 = medium
40-60 = large
60+ super
at least IMHO
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Note that I said there are 32 members, but only half of them are on regularly. So that really brings it to about 16 players. Some of those 32 have not been on in over 2 weeks...I have no idea if they ever plan to come back or not. On a typical night, I generally see about 4 SG mates on. I know the others are playing because I can see they have been on in the last couple days. But I have not met some of them, and rarely see the others.
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Note that I said there are 32 members, but only half of them are on regularly. So that really brings it to about 16 players. Some of those 32 have not been on in over 2 weeks...I have no idea if they ever plan to come back or not.
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Most SGs larger than 5 members are going to face the same issues. If you have 32 members and half log on and hey have 8 members and half log on the relative situation remains constant.
Since we're talking about base building, I'll throw my 2 infamy on the table.
I lead a medium sized villain group, probably around 30-35 people, 20 of us play nearly every night from about 5pm to 12am. On any given night we'll have around 15 people playing. Everyone below level 30 plays full-time in SG mode. After 30 we play out of SG mode until we have enough infamy to purchase our SO's then switch back. Since the two-day headstart, we've been earning between 600k - 1 million prestige per week.
Our base is still using the default plot, we've re-designed it twice and there's no room to build anything more on this plot. We have an infirmary, control room, power room, workshop, teleporter room, and one decorative room. We've placed as much stuff as we could and can add no more control, power, worktables, or teleporters. We've replaced our zone beacons once and our medical teleporter twice (before realizing they were bugged). We have no defensive units built, no vault, nothing like that. We're completely full on our current base, have about 2.5 million in unspent prestige and are saving up to upgrade our plot.
Our next plot upgrade will cost 6.5 million. At our current rate, we'll be able to upgrade our plot by January, assuming we spend every spare amount of prestige to do it. That's 2 months of rigorous playing by a supergroup of 35 in order to upgrade off the initial base plot. We will still have no vault, no defenses, and no functionality beyond what we have in our current base. Our base can not hold an IoP or defend one.
People say that prestige earned is prestige gained. True, but the one factor that's being overlooked is time. How long do we have to wait before we can even participate in a raid? How long do we have to wait before we can even start thinking about building defensive structures? My group earns prestige pretty aggressively, I think, and we're still looking at months of playing before we'll be able to even start thinking about raids.
As a supergroup leader, I consider it my role to help the members of my group experience things in the game they might not otherwise have opportunity to experience. If possible, I'd like to give my members a chance to experience everything this game has on offer. But when it takes many months just to be able to arrive at a point where a group like mine can begin thinking about raids, what's the point? What in this entire system has been geared for the smaller or more casual gamers? From my experience running Twilight Crusaders, most of the people who have ever been in the supergroup didn't stay in the game for a whole year. Over time, from release to present time, activity in most supergroups doesn't increase, it decreases, so we can anticipate that the growth we've seen recently will eventually slow down, pushing back the timeline further before our group can entertain a base raid. What do I tell my supergroup members who are eager to raid? Wait 4 months? 6 months? 8? All I can tell them now is that it's not going to be soon at our current rate of prestige gain. And it's not like I can ask them to play in SG mode any more than they do.
There are two points that bother me now about bases: the obscene cost of adding rooms and functional items and the pathetic rise in prestige awarded at the higher levels. Want a 4x4 decorative room? 150k. Want a 12x12 decorative room 150k. Why do they cost the same? Want a power room? 150k. Want something to put in it? Well, that'll cost you. Want to actually DO something with all that salvage you've been collecting? 600k minimum. If you're in a smaller supergroup, even taking advantage of the most basic functions of a base will take weeks or months. And if you don't earn enough prestige to pay rent regularly, all of that won't be worth anything when it's deactivated.
My other gripe is the amount of prestige earned while in supergroup mode and how it scales with level. It's pathetic. It's discouraging, and when you're no longer earning infamy for being in SG mode, it's insulting. The bases and raids and Items of Power were hyped and marketed and people are excited to use them and the whole system is prohibitively slow for most users and most supergroups. My supergroup in CoV, Psychosis, has quite a few players and most of us are very active, playing every night for hours, and we're not even close to having enough prestige to build a raidable base. What's the point of designing the system and making it nearly impossible for the majority of the people playing the game to experience fully? Increase the amount of prestige earned and give more people a realistic shot at experiencing the raid system.
Also, let us place functional items in rooms of any type. If I place a power node in a decorative room, then have it generate no power. It's annoying to redesign the base and have to delete and recreate every appliance to move a room. It's made worse when I have to move an item created with the workbenches and actually lose the prestige because they have no sell-back value. Maybe I'd like a mystic advisor in my meeting hall because it adds a nice aesthetic touch to the room, but that's not possible is it? No. I'm aware that it's a control item and belongs in a control room, but if I'm not concerned with adding more control (which my current base can't hold anyway), why not let me put the stupid thing in my meeting room? At least I don't have to destroy it when I redesign the base in 2 months to upgrade our plot.
This whole system feels clunky, arbitrary, ill planned, and rushed.