Powerset synergies: Blasters


Alannon

 

Posted

I'm going to begin a series discussing the synergies between primaries and secondaries within each AT. This is not about thematic synergy (AR/Dev), nor is it about pairing each primary with the best secondary. It's about which sets has more of its abilities become especially useful when paired with another particular set.

First in line: Blasters.


Assault Rifle :
Strengths: multiple AoEs overall, multiple cone AoEs, nuke can be used within attack chain.

Weaknesses: reduced damage due to being Lethal, high-damage AoEs have long activation times, only 2 single-target attacks plus a snipe.

Secondary Synergies: When used as an AoE set, striking down entire groups with multiple AoEs, AR can benefit a lot more from Build-Up than by the non-front-loaded damage bonus from Targetting Drone. In addition, it has enough AoE strike capability that it doesn't need Trip Mine. So Devices, although usually taken thematically, doesn't match too well. We want something that has Build-Up, and preferably that provides damage mitigation while the DoT ticks of Flamethrower and FA arrest the mobs. Energy is a good matchup because Boost Range now gives insane range to FA's cone, and makes Flamethrower and Buckshot have really impressive cone ranges. However, I don't see enough damage mitigation in Energy to help me stand in front of multiple mobs as they're being cut down by FA.

I see Ice as being the best secondary for AR. Ice Patch is a great AoE damage mitigation power, as is Shiver. Combine the two, and you get a group that is slowed and falling down, so that as you DoT them over the next ten seconds, they easily lose half the shots that they would have taken on you. That's the best AoE damage mitigation that I see in the secondaries, it has Build-Up, which becomes available just before Flamethrower. Shiver is a cone, matching well with AR.


Fire Blast :
Strengths: extra DoT damage on all attacks, good early AoE attacks, high BI on most attacks.

Weaknesses: first attack power weakens single-target chain, no mezzing/knockdown ability that mitigates damage

Secondary Synergies: Fire can do good single-target damage, but specializes in AoE alpha strikes. For this reason we discard Devices (need Build-Up). We're looking at damage mitigation from the secondary, as well as additional single-target offense so that we don't have to rely on Flares. Fire secondary is right out, we don't want two sets that combine for 0 mezzing/knockdown attacks. That leaves Electric, Ice, and Energy. Ice isn't bad for the same reason it matches with AR, but one major advantage of Fire/ is that it gets its AoEs very early. For that reason, we would like a secondary that gets Build-Up very early.

So we're leaning towards Energy. Is Electric significantly better? Well, it does have Power Sink to help mitigate damage, and Energy's great Power Boost isn't as hot when Fire/ gets no benefit out of it. Stun and Total Focus are great single-target mitigating attacks for Energy, while Electric works well against multiple targets with Power Sink and Lightning Clap, plus possibly the AoE hit from Thunderstrike. Both get great single-target melee attacks early on. All in all, both work well. Energy has a great benefit of getting Build-Up so that you can combo BU + Fire Breath + Fireball at level 8. On the other hand, Electrical gets the advantage of having AoE mitigation powers rather than just single-target.

I would put Electrical as the best, given Fire's focus upon AoEs. Energy is a great set all around, and that may be why it's a close choice, but overall I don't see why Fire/ would be better for /Energy than any other primary. So I will leave Energy aside, waiting for a better set that matches it, and put Electric with Fire, since it fits my definition of synergy: it works better with Fire than with other sets.


Energy Blast :
Strengths: constant knockdown ability.

Weaknesses: AoEs scatter mobs. Knockdown is intermittent. Relatively slow attack animations.

Energy Blast is a strange primary. It can use BU for an alpha strike, but isn't a major alpha strike set. Due to slower animations, and a single-target orientation, its fights last longer... thus Build-Up isn't as useful as Targetting Drone. What makes it strange is its damage mitigation. While other sets rely on a particular power or two to mitigate damage, and then on the other powers for offense, Energy Blast has damage mitigation in every power, and thus defends itself best by constantly blasting a single target. Thus, the secondary for Energy seems least useful in damage mitigation.

It does not need single-target attacks from the secondary, and since it focuses on knocking enemies back constantly, it has little use for a melee-strong secondary. The best damage mitigation is a "use and forget" power like Ice Patch or Cloaking Device, rather than active mezzing powers like Freezing Touch. Lastly, since it's a bit lacking in AoEs, it seems as if it has use for Trip Mine.

So, I'm putting Devices again as the most synergistic secondary. /Energy just doesn't get enough out of Power Boost, though Boost Range is nice with Energy/, and we're wasting all of its melee attacks. Ice's Ice Patch is completely against the knockback from Energy/. Basically, Energy/ works so poorly with melee powers that we're left looking only at support powers. Devices, with the ability of Caltrops to aid in keeping enemies away, with Targetting Drone helping the longer fights, Smoke Grenade with long-term pre-alpha defense, etc, just gives the best all-around support for a long-fight, single-target set like Energy/. And that's without Trip Mine.


Electrical Blast :
Strengths: AoE damage mitigation through End Drain. Ranged nuke.

Weaknesses: No third attack for attack chain. Relatively slow animations.

This is, well, the shortest and easiest analysis yet. The defining feature of Electric Blast is opening up with Short Circuit to neuter enemies at PBAoE range. There are two sets that work best with this: /Energy's Power Boost aids with the drain, while /Fire's follow-up PBAoEs take down the nearby foes relatively quickly.

I like Power Boost, but I see Fire as just completely designed to follow up Short Circuit. SC, Ball Lightning, then Combust and Fire Sword Circle is 4 consecutive PBAoE attacks that all fit within a Build-Up/Aim cycle. That is just too juicy to pass up. In a strange role reversal, Electric primary provides the damage mitigation that allows Fire secondary to focus on the only thing it does especially well, which is AoE pure damage. Minions die from this alpha too fast to do much, and bosses are the most vulnerable to Electric's endurance drain powers. All in all, both sets cover each other too well to pass.


Ice Blast :
Strengths: 3 fast strong single-target chainable attacks, 2 ranged holds.

Weaknesses: Nuke requires support powers, no snipe.

Ice is the best single-target primary, and probably the worst AoE. Its damage mitigation is excellent, with two Holds available, plus a decent stacking -Recharge on all attacks. Since it's single-target, combats run a bit longer, making Targetting Drone a better match than Build-Up. Additionally, Ice Storm and Blizzard do not benefit from BU, so that's even less useful. Lastly, with 3 chainable single-target attacks, Ice doesn't need a secondary with melee attacks.

I hate to list Devices twice, but for pretty much the same reasons as for Energy/, it matches best with Ice. Trip Mine helps with Ice's AoE weakness. Targetting Drone works better than Build-Up with Ice. Caltrops stacks with Ice Storm and Blizzard for AoE DoT and Slow, so that you can afford to slot up Ice Storm for damage rather than for Slow. Auto Turret works better for single-target sets, as the Blaster defeats one target while the others shoot at the AT. All in all, Devices is tailor-made to support single-target primaries like Energy and Ice. Energy Manipulation gets a mention as another synergistic secondary. I don't like how it doesn't help with Ice's weakness (AoE), but it does make Ice into an amazing single-target killer, as well as helping with Ice's major Endurance problem via Conserve Energy, and with Ice's lack of a snipe via Boost Range. You can't go wrong with Energy as a secondary for Ice, but Devices seems tailor-made to fill particular holes: the Ice Storm/Blizzard need to slow the mobs in the AoE, the lack of alpha strike AoE, and the longer fights that don't benefit from Build-Up as much.


I will add Archery and Sonic Blast later, after they are finalized and I have some real experience with them.


Discussion is welcome. My main blaster is AR/Dev, so as you can see, I'm not going with "what I play is the best", so I would appreciate it if discussion were objective and looked at all sets and matchups fairly rather than saying "I do well with this combination, so it must synergize well". I consider Fire/Fire as completely lacking any synergy, yet a lot of people do well with it just because a good player can do well with any set combination. This isn't a discussion about what sets are good... that would consider each set separately. Nor about what sets are better... then I'd be looking at primary vs primary. No, this is only about "every secondary and primary has some defining powers and attributes... what combinations of primary and secondary best improve the strengths of each set, while best covering up the weakness of each set". Lastly, I look at the strengths and weakness with a very general viewpoint, including soloing and teaming, single-target and multi-target, fighting mobs that fight back as well as target-shooting when a Controller or Tanker prevents return fire. Certainly some combos may be amazing in some situations (Fire/Energy alpha striking in hazard zones and running away from the surviving bosses, anyone?), and if you would be willing to play only that way, the combination plays differently than someone who soloes and teams, street sweeps and runs missions and TFs.

So, please, I welcome discussion and suggestions. But I think that it would be most appropriate to keep it objective and general.


 

Posted

As a counterpoint to your fire/fire assertion, I find that fire/fire is incredibly synergistic. Probably one of the most hated on and laughed-at secondaries for a blaster, my opinion is that /fire needs no status effects in its attacks. Damage mitigation with the set comes from crispy corpses all around you in VERY short order. However, fire/fire is also incredibly difficult/dangerous to play. I NEVER see myself as a solo-capable blaster. I'm about as "helpless" as a no-pet controller when it comes to soloing. Yet, give me a good tank or empath in a pinch (or both for the win!) and fire/fire simply transcends all of the bunk that is spread on these forums. A tank to group them, Aim + Buildup + Breath + Fireball then a jump into the group for a quick Combustion + Fire Sword Circle just as Aim + Buildup is wearing off means some very dead +4 baddies. One or two still clinging to life? Thrown down your six-slotted Burn and watch evil melt. Yes, it takes skill. Yes, it takes balls. Yes, it takes a tank you can trust. Yes, it takes a high threshold for pain for when things go wrong, and they can go VERY wrong VERY quickly. Yes, it takes Combat Jumping and Acrobatics. But holy jezeebuz, is it a FUN TIME! I have yet to play any toon that gives me the amount of nail-biting pleasure my fire/fire does.

Very synergistic if you know your limitations, those of your team and of the baddies you're fighting. A great time for me, but apparently not for just about everyone else on here that's tried a fire/fire. I don't find myself anymore masochistic than the next guy, but certainly I must have a few wires crossed somewhere for making the "unworkable" (if you believe all the fire/fire crap here on the forums) work very VERY well.


 

Posted

Nice guide, but it seems to be written foirm a soloing perspective. nothing wrong with this, you should just note it.

I currently play Elec/Dev, made mostly as a concept character, but it panned out real well. Smoke Grenade makes normal mobs completely blind, which means I can maneuver for position on my Short Circuit freely. And Caltrops provide me with a small safe zone that allows me to remain at melee range.

Just a bit worried about how Cloaking Device will work in I5.

As for Fire/Fire, there is nothing wrong with /fire that a good tank or controller can't help with. /Fire gives you good damage in a single attack cycle, but the damage per second isn't all that impressive.


 

Posted

You both have the same very good point.

Yes, this guide is written to discuss how the primary and the secondary powerset that YOU have, best work together.

Soon as you are in a team, the synergy changes completely. For example, I consider Electric/ as easily the best match for /Fire, because Electric provides the AoE control effect that Fire needs. But soon as you're in a team where a specialist can better apply that AoE control, you have no use for that synergy, and instead, would prefer the synergy of having more AoE damage to add onto your current AoE damage.

The reason I did not go into the team synergies is that there are so many different teams possible, that it's rather difficult to offer suggestions regarding all of the powers. Just as an example, the Ice primary, if you duo with a Controller, gets great effect out of a well-slotted Ice Storm and Blizzard, slotted for damage instead of Slow. But if you duo with a Scrapper, who can't aggro-control or status control, what you want is to focus on the single-target blasts and pick targets off the Scrapper one by one. So the same set will have different strengths depending on your team. It becomes difficult to mention all of them, but thinking about it, I think I see the makings of another guide ... one that describes how each powerset works in a team, depending on whether you're soloing, duoing, large-teaming, and on what is available in the team.

Good answers. The guide as it is, to keep space limited, is written in the assumption that you either solo or that you wish to make sure your powers work together regardless of what you have on the team. Certainly synergies will change depending on team and enemies (back to the Elec/Fire example, against Rikti, it might be totally gimped, due to being unable to close in and open with Short Circuit).


 

Posted

Very interesting prespective that I'm sure to try on some alts.

My primary alt right now is Fire/dev and I love the ability to solo well with this one. Granted, it lacks buildup and any kind of endurance management, but the crowd control is adequate. Combined with the pure damage slotting of primaries (because of Targetting Drone) and Cloaking Device it makes it a very fun build.

I think I'm going to try the Elec/Fire a shot, just for giggles.


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Posted

does ice/fire or fire/ice not work well together? or ice/ice


 

Posted

I didn't see anythiong about energy/elec in there... I recently rolled just such a blaster, and he works very well... opinions on this?
Keep in mind he's low level... halfway through level 10. Picked up Havoc punch, I believe, at 10, and it seems to be working.
Any advice on this synergy?


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Posted

Wow. This guide is a slice of history.

Back in I4, when this was written:

... There were no caps on how many targets you could hit with a nuke.
... you could one-shot drain enemies with Short Circuit, no Power Boost needed.
... Blizzard wasn't built up by Build Up.

And a large number of other changes.

General advantages of /Elec include several very powerful pointblank shots, Powersink [Give my your END please, thank you] and a hold.

Powersink won't, by itself, entirely drain an enemy's END. But if you nuke, take a single blue, and then hit powersink on a survivor... you are right back in the fight, possibly before they finish getting up from Nova.

Thunderstrike has a tiny bit of AoE damage- if you've swept everyone into the corner ( Build Up, Aim, AoEs), Thunderstrike might finish them off. I don't know the numbers well enough to say. That is, by the way, the recommended strategy for AoE'ing enemies with Energy- cone first, then sphere.

But generally, I'd play full-range boss killer.


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Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Energy Blast :
Strengths: constant knockdown ability.

Weaknesses: AoEs scatter mobs. Knockdown is intermittent. Relatively slow attack animations.

Energy Blast is a strange primary. It can use BU for an alpha strike, but isn't a major alpha strike set. Due to slower animations, and a single-target orientation, its fights last longer... thus Build-Up isn't as useful as Targetting Drone. What makes it strange is its damage mitigation. While other sets rely on a particular power or two to mitigate damage, and then on the other powers for offense, Energy Blast has damage mitigation in every power, and thus defends itself best by constantly blasting a single target. Thus, the secondary for Energy seems least useful in damage mitigation.

It does not need single-target attacks from the secondary, and since it focuses on knocking enemies back constantly, it has little use for a melee-strong secondary. The best damage mitigation is a "use and forget" power like Ice Patch or Cloaking Device, rather than active mezzing powers like Freezing Touch. Lastly, since it's a bit lacking in AoEs, it seems as if it has use for Trip Mine.

So, I'm putting Devices again as the most synergistic secondary. /Energy just doesn't get enough out of Power Boost, though Boost Range is nice with Energy/, and we're wasting all of its melee attacks. Ice's Ice Patch is completely against the knockback from Energy/. Basically, Energy/ works so poorly with melee powers that we're left looking only at support powers. Devices, with the ability of Caltrops to aid in keeping enemies away, with Targetting Drone helping the longer fights, Smoke Grenade with long-term pre-alpha defense, etc, just gives the best all-around support for a long-fight, single-target set like Energy/. And that's without Trip Mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Odd. I would have considered Energy/Devices to be one of the least synergistic combinations I could think off. Energy gains nothing specifically from /Devices that /Devices doesn't just do by itself, with the possible exception of power pushing things onto trip mines.

On the other hand, there is significant synergy between Energy Blast and the set you think is very low on the synergy scale: energy manipulation. Energy manipulation provides several synergistic properties specifically to Energy blast:

1. Very few critters are simultaneously resistant to disorient and knockback. That means the combination of the two is much more likely to be disabling to any targets you have to face, then either one separately.

2. Powerboost boosts flight speed, which is highly useful for hover blasting. Energy blast, with its intrinsic knockback, tends to find itself in many more situations where hover-blasting is a good choice of tactic: even in teamed situations where aggro is fully controlled, there is a potential desire to hover-blast. Powerboost accelerates hover, which is unsuppressed flight movement.

3. Energy blasting does not have the alpha strike potential of Fire blast, nor the control of Ice. Therefore, it is more reliant on non-stop firing than the average blasting set: idling can be lethal. Energy manipulation has conserve power to allow for more continuous blasting. More endurance helps everyone, but Energy blast is much more closely reliant on continuous activity for survival, separate from better kill speed.

4. Unlike /Fire, /Devices, /Ice, and even /Elec, Energy Manipulation does not specifically have any requirement to have critters in specific locations or bunched up to gain its full potential, which means Energy Manipulation is the secondary least likely to conflict with the knockback of Energy blast. In fact, you could argue that scattering targets before engaging in melee blapping with them has a beneficial effect: it either forces those targets to attack from range, lowering their damage, or run back towards you, which temporarily stops them from attacking altogether.

5. Related to #1 above, most blaster primaries have stackable mez. Ice blast does, and so does Electric blast. Technically, AR and Archery do as well, although it takes significant slotting to stack the disorients for any length of time. But Energy blast does not have a specific stackable mez, which can be problematic for dealing with foes such as mezzing bosses. Total focus fills a significant hole in Energy blast, by giving the combo a mag 4 mez that can affect bosses. Its a good attack for all blasters to have in theory, but it serves a very specific role in Energy blast. Especially in the late game, epic power pools have things like holds and sleeps, which can stack with the holds and sleeps in sets like Sonic blast, Electric Blast, and Ice Blast. There is nothing that "stacks" with Energy's KB in a productive way, which further emphasizes a need for a disabling power like total focus in the late game.


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Posted

Elec/energy and elec/elec: end drain
Elec/ice: holds, various controls and tricks(using sparkie)
archery/fire: aoe non-stop every group(not just a kaboom and left with no end like other primary sets)


 

Posted

I'd have to agree with Arcanaville on this (big surprise) and say that Energy/Energy works great. My primary character for the last two and a half years is just such a blaster, and he is crazily versatile for the reasons listed. While Energy/ has a constant mez ability in Knockdown, it is unreliable against bosses due to the low magnitude of any given attack (except Power Push, but... ew), so it helps to have a secondary that can disable a boss as /Energy. And not even just Total Focus or the stacking disorients, but also the oft neglected and under-appreciated Power Thrust.

/Electric doesn't cut it nowadays, because Power Sink by itself isn't enough; /Fire has no mez; /Ice, while good controlling, isn't so hot when you have to worry about knockback; and with /Devices the web grenade nullifies knockback entirely and you can knock things out of the caltrop patch.

Then again, there aren't any primaries for which /Energy is a bad choice. Insane single target damage, good single target control, and a host of great utility powers...

A good blaster is a smart blaster.


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Posted

sonic/energy is a fantastic combo

The sonic powers debuff dmg resistance, as a lead in to the very damaging bone crusher, energy punch total focus follow-ups.

And the different powers stack dmg resistance debuff.


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Posted

I'm new to the game and this is my first post, but I'm not sure I understand things correctly. I made a fire/fire blaster because it seemed interesting and I do both solo and pickup groups with a great deal of success, and I get invited back, so I don't think I'm seen as slacking or letting others carry the load. I'm not sure if I've stumbled onto some mysterious tao of fire/fire or what? Basically, I've got the two single-target ranged attacks (flares and fire blast, I think?) fully slotted and can generally fire one after the other pretty much continously and not burn much endurance, and that chews through minions pretty hard. For LTs and bosses, I'll use inspirations, plus Aim and Buildup and lead off with the sniper attack, and the high damage short range attack if they get too close to me. If I'm soloing, I'll use Ring of Fire to hold the bad guys out of melee and light them up. It's very rare that I'm in XP debt and I'm level 32 now. I took Fire Sword Circle and the other PBAoE, but I only use them if I'm completely surrounded and can't get out, I'll use my Insight and Enrage inspirations, fire those two off, and pray.


 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
I'm new to the game and this is my first post, but I'm not sure I understand things correctly. I made a fire/fire blaster because it seemed interesting and I do both solo and pickup groups with a great deal of success, and I get invited back, so I don't think I'm seen as slacking or letting others carry the load. I'm not sure if I've stumbled onto some mysterious tao of fire/fire or what? Basically, I've got the two single-target ranged attacks (flares and fire blast, I think?) fully slotted and can generally fire one after the other pretty much continously and not burn much endurance, and that chews through minions pretty hard. For LTs and bosses, I'll use inspirations, plus Aim and Buildup and lead off with the sniper attack, and the high damage short range attack if they get too close to me. If I'm soloing, I'll use Ring of Fire to hold the bad guys out of melee and light them up. It's very rare that I'm in XP debt and I'm level 32 now. I took Fire Sword Circle and the other PBAoE, but I only use them if I'm completely surrounded and can't get out, I'll use my Insight and Enrage inspirations, fire those two off, and pray.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fire/Fire remains a great combo ... damage plus more damage! Your melee AOEs are also a great addition when teaming assuming someone else can hold or control aggro. Continue to enjoy your burning goodness!


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Posted

A couple of things have changed since 2005, mainly blaster attack standardization.
Flares used to have a longer cast time and was a weak power, but now the three strongest single-target blaster sets are Ice, Rad, and Fire.

Ice is very ST focused and thus synergizes very well with the aoes from a /mental secondary.

Fire is high damage, so I actually think it works really well with /ice for the additional control. frozen touch + char locks down bosses. Throw in aim and you're locking down +3 bosses, which is not bad at all.

Devices has a lot to offer, but it doesn't have build up, which is a real shame seeing as that's a power that makes everything else in your set better.

But yes, being a blaster's all about synergy. About choosing powers that make the rest of your build work better, rather than for their individual effect.