As far as blasters go, the problem is that there was already just about no room for error whatsoever. We always have [and still do] survived by a razor-thin margin. Even with top-skills we're still hanging partly on sheer luck to survive, a factor that can just swing against us suddenly (see how well things go when you miss all except one-dude with firebreath, for example? ouch!)
I completely agree that it put a penalty on sloppy play; the only problem is that WHAT was upgraded (the HP and damage) wasn't the right way to do this. All that did was greatly increase the chances that DESPITE a perfect setup and flawless execution (still required in many cases), the dice were stacked against you.
The extra HP meant that your perfect alpha-strike didn't even knock half the boss's HP out. It also meant you were taking 40% (more like 50% actually, seeing as this directly affected their regeneration) longer to kill it. That's at least 50% more shots this boss gets to lob at you.
The extra damage meant that bosses that once had to hit you 2-3 times (which is pretty easily done considering our defenses on average) suddenly didn't need to. Two, and sometimes just ONE(if said boss was red or purple) shots were able to take us down.
In other words, what already required above-average setup and play suddenly also gave the target a longer lifetime (and thus more chances of firing and hitting) as well as a higher chance of killing you outright with a single hit. Since our typical survival rate assumes near-flawless play already (not boasting, we just don't have a choice in the matter; trivial-error = death), there's no maneuvering room for a blaster to "adjust" with this kind of boss upgrade. We're already up against the wall, and that just electrified it with poisoned needles.
This REMOVED a lot of tactics from boss-fights as far as blasters were concerned...
We went from "set things up just right, draw off the minions or have'em taken-out in the alpha, and hope everything goes ok" to "pop 5 purples, 2 reds and a discipline, snipe once, twice if you're lucky, pop an awaken and repeat in hopes you'll beat his regen-rate doing this"
I'm glad you said this actually, because I believe herein lies the misconception of the blaster role. We have been given over to the theory that gameplay determines the role of the blaster not the blaster to the game. Meaning, because we can play a blaster in a particular fashion, we assume that is the way it was intended to be played, or stated another way, what we have on paper does not translate to the type of gamplay that has been developed. Many blasters out there are going to disagree with this comment, alot. I expect this, so I am not surprised about any negetive comments concerning this post.
Ranged Heroes: 100% correct. Like it or not a blaster should not for any reason engage in melee combat, unless there is no other alternative. Because we have been given tools to allow us to do this goes with the point that the blaster power sets were in need of repair from the start. So what we have is gameplay that has developed over time because of what we had to work with, which is not the way it was intended. Since this has happened how do we go back to the idea of what was intended and implement the necessary corrections to define, or in this case redefine the blaster role.
This issue I believe needs to be addressed sooner rather than later to allow blasters to learn to play the characters they have, to what the role should be, "before" CoV comes out. I am finding alot of people who do not want to be involved in the arena for this very reason, they cannot compete effectivily. Now be this a perception or reality is not the point. But, pound for pound, blasters are lacking severly in the arena. I have an AR/Dev, and when you watch people run over top of your caltrops like they are not there, or actually stand on trip mines and they do not go off, or after you have been defeated, when you come back you cannot draw your weapon for like 40 seconds, but yet your opponents can come right back up to you and instantly wipe you out again, if you have experienced this you would understand. (I apoligize for the few rants there). My point is as a blaster my job is to deliver damage, pure and simple. In reality and in fantasy, "nothing" should be able to withstand a ranged blaster assault. One of the best combination duo's in the game is a tank and a blaster. If any of you who read this don't believe me, try this, you talk about laying the smack down, you cannot even imagine.
This being said, should only go futher towards addressing the immeadiate need, or to point out the reason to expedite the work to rectify this situation. This is not to say nothing is being done, but the longer we wait the more frustrating it is going to be to try and correct our character builds as we continue to level. Yes, I am going to say it, Blaster Damage Output "Needs" to be increased. No one should do more damage than a blaster, I repeat, "No One!". Now if this means in PvP that blasters rule, so be it!. Every character in the game knows what blasters do, and before PvP was released everyone thought blasters would be the archtype to beat in the arena. The real shame is we have been maimed, and you have created a new archtype called blastrollers. I don't ask for much here States, come on, through us a bone. You even admitted you new this from the beginning. Now its I4, it sounds like its about time.
Oh, one other rant. The blaster cloaking device, whats up with that???. I have invis in my own powerset and its so inferior I have to take a second powerset to compensate and lose an alt set I could use for something more useful. Doh?
Shadow Myst 34 AR/Dev Triumph
and 87 other chars I am not gonna
take the time to list (every slot, every server)
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One thing I find exhilirating about pickup groups is everyone finding out how everyone else's playstyle interferes with thier own.
[/ QUOTE ] That's pretty funny. Even funnier because I've found that noob blasters are the ones that are the most disurptive to team tactics because of their indiscriminate use of AoE's and incessant need to start battles.
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I agree completely. After a hard day of work, I enjoy some nice debt. After all, my end-of-day entertainment should definitely involve tactical planning.
[/ QUOTE ] As I recall, in an earlier thread you were the one who said all you did is run around reading content, correct? Acting like any challenge is counterproductive to an enjoyable game is disengenuous. I've been playing video games for well over 10 years now as I think most people on here have. I hate to break it to you, but most of us are used to video games being 10 times harder than CoH. Go team a lvl 16+ tanker with a lvl 16+ blaster and tell me there is a challenge. Taunt + AoE is easy xp all day long. In fact, it was so easy that when my SG buddy wanted to do it again, I brought out my own blaster instead. I'm 21, he's 20, we promptly did my Striga missions on Invinc. One death, his, against a boss that was +3 to him and only happened because he ran in to firesword and got kicked in return.
True, there was no mezzing. And it's too bad because without mezzing mobs, we didn't need anyone else.
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Yeah, I live for the game to be more tactical....
[/ QUOTE ] You've basically admitted that you don't want the game to be tactical at all...so we're not going to agree.
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This REMOVED a lot of tactics from boss-fights as far as blasters were concerned...
[/ QUOTE ] Interesting observation. But let's take it in context. Blasters are not supposed to be able to solo even level bosses, per the Statesman. The fact is that the game's current state is in conflict with a previously stated intention of the devs. When they attempted to fix it, people found it unacceptable. Now, as I've said before, I agree mainly because of how the missions work.
I have no problem with not being able to solo +1 bosses, but I do have a problem with not being able to dump a mission. We should be able to go to a contact (stool pigeon) and find out if a boss might be there etc and drop the mission if we know we don't want to fight bosses. Clearly the "defeat x mob" missions are designed to offer us some options, but I am not aware of many story arcs that can be completed by only selecting those types.
I think one of the fundamantal differences I have with many of the posters is that i don't think my blaster should be able to solo all my missions or even half of them. If I wanted to solo, I'd play a scrapper or tanker. The fact that I CAN solo as a blaster or defender or controller is gravy. The problem is that at low levels, blasters are one of the BEST soloers and so the expectation gets set. The other problem is that you can't dump missions as discussed.
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Acting like any challenge is counterproductive to an enjoyable game is disengenuous. I've been playing video games for well over 10 years now as I think most people on here have.
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...right. The challenge that there is now is fine. You're the person saying that there is no challege.
You're factually wrong on that, too. Try soloing a fire melee Blaster and be amazed by the current level of diffiuclty that you seem to find so easy.
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I hate to break it to you, but most of us are used to video games being 10 times harder than CoH.
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Doom (all), Quake 1-3, UT (all), are not MMORPGs, sorry. I won't even bother to mention that the type of difficulty is different.
Difficulty in CoH happens from depending on other people to do thier jobs. In an FPS, you depend on them to screw up. Guess which is more likely. 
I'd mention, oh, that every solo RPG ever made is actually easier than CoH, since you have full control over your Hero/Party... but you typed "video game" in the above quote.
Yeah, I'll admit that some SNES games were harsh, my friend had them.
They were shooters, or platform games...maybe you meant fighting games? Regardless, irrelevant when discussing MMORPG difficulty.
If you want a difficult, nasty MMORPG I understand that AC is quite harsh, has a cooler death penalty too. The few remaining subscribers really seem to enjoy PvP with thier Level 200+ chars. 
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
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Interesting observation. But let's take it in context. Blasters are not supposed to be able to solo even level bosses, per the Statesman.
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What about controllers, defenders, Tankers and scrappers, are they supposed to solo even con bosses? If so, why are blasters supposed to be the only one that can't? Why do they have to ride the short bus of Boss soloing?
Isn't that a balance concern if Blasters can't solo boses and everyone else can? Does that not mean blasters are inherently weaker then the other ATs?
That's fair to you?
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I think one of the fundamantal differences I have with many of the posters is that i don't think my blaster should be able to solo all my missions or even half of them. If I wanted to solo, I'd play a scrapper or tanker. The fact that I CAN solo as a blaster or defender or controller is gravy. The problem is that at low levels, blasters are one of the BEST soloers and so the expectation gets set. The other problem is that you can't dump missions as discussed.
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I actually understand this point of view. The fact that any AT can solo well (and not just specific builds) is probably too powerful.
The problem is twofold: not only were skewed expectaions set that cannot be undone, but making any AT Team-Only (in capital letters!) can't work.
One of the core design rules of CoH is "log in, have fun for an hour and get something done, and log out".
That can't happen if you're spending 15 or more minutes "looking for team".
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
IMO Every AT should be able to solo at least at the heroic setting.
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IMO Every AT should be able to solo at least at the heroic setting.
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Naah. That's why there is a "soloing" AT. The Scrapper. According to Mieux, other AT's don't deserve to solo.
Ordinarily I'd /ignore such a ridiculous assertion, but the sad fact remains that Statesman has said just that on more than one occasion.
I really don't get it either, but you'll have to take it up with the devs? 
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
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Ordinarily I'd /ignore such a ridiculous assertion,
[/ QUOTE ] That's because you're completely misconstruing the assertion.
Every AT CAN can solo and that is their intent. It is NOT their intent that every AT can solo ALL their missions. This obviously true when you consider that AV's start showing up in story arcs.
"Solo" means you can log on and gain xp without needing to team. That did not change with the improved bosses, nor should it. Perhaps I confused the issue a little, but I said I didn't expect to solo "all my missions."
As far as controllers and tankers being able to solo bosses with little to zero risk, yup, that's a problem. However, the nature of this game makes solving the problem arguably impossible for everyone. The devs are forced to try and find some middle ground were some people can't solo them at all, most can barely do it, and some have literally no problem.
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That's why there is a "soloing" AT.
[/ QUOTE ] If you believe in such a thing, then there has to be something they can do that non-soloers can't. The devs must believe that letting everyone solo equally would hurt the game. Hard to know for certain, but I can see both sides of the argument. Most important to me is that all the AT's feel and play differently.
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Every AT CAN can solo and that is their intent. It is NOT their intent that every AT can solo ALL their missions. This obviously true when you consider that AV's start showing up in story arcs.
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Gotcha. So story arcs should not be soloable, natch.
One thing I don't understand....say you get 3 missions in a row and they all have Elite Bosses or AV's..how do you drop them?
Or do you just street hunt until you can get a team?
Currently playing:
Infaerna Who knew Fire/Fire Brutes were fun to play?
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The challenge that there is now is fine. You're the person saying that there is no challege.
[/ QUOTE ] Let clean up that perception. Yes, I have often spouted that the game is too easy. Perhaps that is the wrong way to articulate it. Clearly you can go find something that can defeat you at any level. The problem in my mind is that the challenges aren't sophisticated enough.
Inversely varying accuracy for higher level mobs is legimate, but is lacking for creativity and pushed to the point where the player is actually challenged creates a precipitous situation which can involve more luck than skill. Most mobs require little or no real thought in defeating them. I believe the devs did try and create mobs that rewarded you for finding their mehcanism...but sadly, it is overshadowed by the undeniable success of straight brute force tactics in nearly all situations.
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Most mobs require little or no real thought in defeating them. I believe the devs did try and create mobs that rewarded you for finding their mehcanism...but sadly, it is overshadowed by the undeniable success of straight brute force tactics in nearly all situations.
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Couple observations...
1)Being a blaster requires more strategy than being a tanker, and the "brute force" arguement is void in blaster-dom.
2)Brute force overshadowing tactical play is true in
every single MMO out there.
3)This is NOT Zelda.
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Blasters are not supposed to be able to solo even level bosses, per the Statesman.
[/ QUOTE ]
To be precise, because its dangerous language, Statesman said that blasters are not necessarily supposed to be able to solo all bosses. Meaning, if you can't solo a boss as a blaster, that might just be because that boss is too difficult, or your build doesn't allow for it.
Remove the two italicized words, and it sounds like the implication is that no blaster should be able to solo any bosses, implying that any that do represent a game balance failure, and I don't think this stronger statement is true.
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I think one of the fundamantal differences I have with many of the posters is that i don't think my blaster should be able to solo all my missions or even half of them. If I wanted to solo, I'd play a scrapper or tanker. The fact that I CAN solo as a blaster or defender or controller is gravy.
[/ QUOTE ]
Statesman disagrees, though; he's stated many times that a specific design goal of the game is that everyone (meaning all ATs in general, we obviously have to exclude broken builds here) should be theoretically capable of soloing their own missions (set to the lowest difficulty level). Moreover, the original game manual specifies that its scrappers, tanks, and blasters that are supposed to be able to solo the most effectively.
Moreover, I cannot see how you could reduce blaster power to the point where most couldn't solo their missions, without making them totally ineffective. I'm already defenseless, so the only thing left is to reduce damage to the point where my damage output is comparable to pre-32 controllers. Even then a die-hard blaster could take the presence pool and get fear, giving them a single target hold, and turning themselves into effectively an illusion controller without the phantom army and flash.
You can make it so ridiculously hard that even someone like me, who liked the challenge of soloing Skyraider missions with jump bots with my illusion controller in the 20s, who is willing to die repeatedly to figure out how to kill not one, but two bosses simultaneously with my blaster, decides a game of minesweeper is more entertaining, but I don't see how you can make it an actual game design goal for blasters to be unsoloable, unless you make *everyone* unsoloable.
Scrappers are the natural soloists, but they are not implemented to match their AT class description. They should have no range, their defenses should be less effective than tanks under normal, not extreme circumstances, and they should be significantly outdamaged by blasters.
Right now I'm of the opinion that blasters probably do more damage than scrappers, but the problem is that its not *blatantly so* which makes it impossible for blasters to fulfill one of our original "roles" - to overshadow scrappers in the damage department while the tank is overshadowing the scrapper in the defense department.
Although I team more than I solo now, I started this game a soloist - with a blaster - into the 20s. If blasters turned out to be unsoloable for running missions, I'm not sure I'd be here now. Of my first three characters (the three 50s in my sig now) ill/rad is not a good soloer early on (although it can be soloed once you know what you are doing) and MA/SR at release was not stellar (although I didnt know that at the time). If my en/en was completely unsoloable, I might have concluded that the soloable claim made by CoH was blatantly false, and moved on.
It keeps being said that scrappers are supposed to be the best soloers, and everyone forgets that blasters are supposed to be "successful" soloers.
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Note: There will be a future option to allow you to drop missions. Probably about the same time Flash Backs which let your self-exemp to do old missions.
A heroic level mission no longer contains a Boss level mob.
That kinda ends that debate. Moving along now.
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A heroic level mission no longer contains a Boss level mob.
That kinda ends that debate. Moving along now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, solo, anyway.
It's all kinds of fun to do an 8-person mission on Heroic, running into three bosses per spawn, and finally getting to the mission boss, who is a lt.
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Well, they were argueing about soloing anyway. I just felt that it was starting to stray the conversation away from the main point of the thread. Which was: What is the blaster role in teams?
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Gotcha. So story arcs should not be soloable, natch.
[/ QUOTE ] lol..you've been hoisted by your own petard. In the 40's, many story arcs contain AV's so they are not soloable now are they?
Let's also walk over to the Frostfire and Cavern of Trans story arcs which are also not soloable (by all but a few builds) if taken at the proper level. Though I know a lot of people can solo a FF that cons yellow or white, no one can do the Cavern arc solo can they?
I got /tell from a scrapper trying to solo Malaise in a Striga arc...gues that's not soloable either is it?
So clearly the game is not designed to allow you to see all the content as a solo player. As a blaster I don't expect to see all the content of THE solo AT. I am not saying that is fair or 'right' I'm saying that this should be the expectation based on the games design.
It's easy to sit here and run off at the mouth saying everyone should be able to solo everything and all AT's should be balanced...
It's quite another to actually understand what that means and its impact to the game. I dont' think the vast majority of posters have that understanding. Why? Because not even the devs have an infallible understanding.
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One thing I don't understand....say you get 3 missions in a row and they all have Elite Bosses or AV's..how do you drop them?
[/ QUOTE ] Right now....you team to defeat them. Which is probalby what they intended. The problem, as I already acknowleged, is that a hero should be able to drop a mission. I think it should come with a penalty, but nevertheless, the option should be there.
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Or do you just street hunt until you can get a team?
[/ QUOTE ] This brings up an interesting thought. Currently, when you take a misison, the mobs levels are determined based on the level you were when you got the mission, not when you actually enter it. I am wondering if this was put in for exactly the reason you've brought up. A hero finds that he or she is not strong enough to defeat X boss....they go out and train and acquire new powers and skill and come back and are finally able to defeat X boss. Certainly a valid approach to the world of super heroes.
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To be precise, because its dangerous language, Statesman said that blasters are not necessarily supposed to be able to solo all bosses. Meaning, if you can't solo a boss as a blaster, that might just be because that boss is too difficult, or your build doesn't allow for it.
Remove the two italicized words, and it sounds like the implication is that no blaster should be able to solo any bosses, implying that any that do represent a game balance failure, and I don't think this stronger statement is true.
[/ QUOTE ] You're creating a distinction that was not implied and then passing judgment on the distinction that you've created, suggesting that it was my distinction. "supposed" means that some blasters will be able to, but most will not. A 6'4" man is not supposed to be tall enough to play power forward, but Charles Barkely was one of the greatest power forwards in the game.
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Statesman disagrees, though; he's stated many times that a specific design goal of the game is that everyone (meaning all ATs in general, we obviously have to exclude broken builds here) should be theoretically capable of soloing their own missions (set to the lowest difficulty level).
[/ QUOTE ] You'll have to show me that quote. What the States has touted is that you can "solo". He's never said how it relates to your missions. His definiton of soloing, which he basically stated point blank was that you can log on and gain experience without teaming. It had nonthing to do with content or missions. Players like yourself, have inferred that soloing meant completing all your missions. If he's said something more recently in direct contradiction to that, you'll have to post it to prove me wrong because I have not seen it.
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Moreover, I cannot see how you could reduce blaster power to the point where most couldn't solo their missions,
[/ QUOTE ] Damage output and ability to a solo a mission are only correlated, they aren't directly related. You're taking a position that is invalid and arguing against it. First, some misisons require you to click two glowies at the same time so you can't solo them can you? Second, I'd be surprised to find that a decent blaster build with inspirations cannot defeat all mobs on a heroic mission by lvl 18 or higher. Third, what we are really talking about is beating missions on Invinc, and the reason why blasters can't do that is mez protection and hp's. Those two things alone would allow blasters to solo on Invinc.
Fourth, who wants to reduce blaster power? Your statement irresponsibly suggests that I am advocating some reduction in blaster power so they can't solo. Gross inaccuracy. This is about the role of blasters in CoH. They are not intended to be the soloist that Scrappers are and I am not in favor of changes that erode that disintinction.
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but the problem is that its not *blatantly so* which makes it impossible for blasters to fulfill one of our original "roles"
[/ QUOTE ] So is a question of perspective isn't it? It is blatantly obvious blasters do more damage than scrappers. The problem is that the difference is less as the levels go higher. Blasters are used to SUCH a gap at low level, that the gap at high level is harder to perceive. Go fight 10 whites with a lvl 35 scrappers and blaster while a controller has them all on lock down and tell me which AT kills them faster (don't use Electric blaster). Blaster AoE with Build Up and Aim do FAR FAR FAR more damage than scrappers to more people. Without crits, my blaster can kill bosses faster than most scrappers.
The problem Arcana is not that blasters don't do a ton of damage, the problem is everyone else starts doing enough damage that you don't need X% more firepower to succeed.
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It keeps being said that scrappers are supposed to be the best soloers, and everyone forgets that blasters are supposed to be "successful" soloers.
[/ QUOTE ]Once again, blasters are incredibly successful soloers, they are not as good at completeing all their missions. You need to re-examine what Statesmen's definition of soloing is.
Blasters are very good at soloing up until the 30s then IMHO they become ineffective. In the late game blasters are ineffective. The final power in the blasters primary power set Thunderous Blast / Nova / Inferno / etc Fully Slotted Should be able to destroy all orange minions within range and severely damage Lieutenants and Bosses with out draining all my end. If my entire end is going to be drained it should kill the Lieutenants and Bosses too. More damage for blasters in late game is a must. Take the cap away.
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Moreover, I cannot see how you could reduce blaster power to the point where most couldn't solo their missions,
[/ QUOTE ] Damage output and ability to a solo a mission are only correlated, they aren't directly related. You're taking a position that is invalid and arguing against it. First, some misisons require you to click two glowies at the same time so you can't solo them can you? Second, I'd be surprised to find that a decent blaster build with inspirations cannot defeat all mobs on a heroic mission by lvl 18 or higher. Third, what we are really talking about is beating missions on Invinc, and the reason why blasters can't do that is mez protection and hp's. Those two things alone would allow blasters to solo on Invinc.
Fourth, who wants to reduce blaster power? Your statement irresponsibly suggests that I am advocating some reduction in blaster power so they can't solo. Gross inaccuracy. This is about the role of blasters in CoH. They are not intended to be the soloist that Scrappers are and I am not in favor of changes that erode that disintinction.
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but the problem is that its not *blatantly so* which makes it impossible for blasters to fulfill one of our original "roles"
[/ QUOTE ] So is a question of perspective isn't it? It is blatantly obvious blasters do more damage than scrappers. The problem is that the difference is less as the levels go higher. Blasters are used to SUCH a gap at low level, that the gap at high level is harder to perceive. Go fight 10 whites with a lvl 35 scrappers and blaster while a controller has them all on lock down and tell me which AT kills them faster (don't use Electric blaster). Blaster AoE with Build Up and Aim do FAR FAR FAR more damage than scrappers to more people. Without crits, my blaster can kill bosses faster than most scrappers.
[/ QUOTE ]
Why disqualify Electric?
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Why disqualify Electric?
[/ QUOTE ] I hear they do sucky damage
When I team with them, I can't say they are as impressive as Fire or Ice. Plus, when I see them zap mobs, I always get the feeling they are just tickling them.
But if you want to enter you Electric in the Blaster v Scrapper Olympics...I'll let your zaps do the talking.
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Why disqualify Electric?
[/ QUOTE ] I hear they do sucky damage
When I team with them, I can't say they are as impressive as Fire or Ice. Plus, when I see them zap mobs, I always get the feeling they are just tickling them.
But if you want to enter you Electric in the Blaster v Scrapper Olympics...I'll let your zaps do the talking.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have no interest in playing I do more damage than you games with anyone. I just had a hilarious (to me anyway) image of a cartoon orator at a podium pounding one fist into his his other hand for emphasis. "It is blatantly obvious blasters do more damage than scrappers!" /aside "But not Electric, they suck."
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And crey power tanks, protectors.
[/ QUOTE ]
Who cares about stuns? Those suckers'll knock off 80% of your health in one shot with a Total Focus or Thunder Strike. One shot after that, and faceplant.
... Of course, both of those stun too...