Kin/Elec Meleefender Guide 2.0 (all defs pls read)
Downside of Leadership stuff is it takes just so damn long to start back up once you get held or something.
I dunno about everyone else, but I still get stunned now and again, especially when I'm grouped. It feels like in the same time it takes to start up Maneuvers/Tactics, I can start ALL my other toggles (Tough, Weave, Stealth, Hover). I'd rather just stick an extra +acc in the things I care about (FS and Trans* really) and know that it's always working. The end drain on them sucks, but I really hate that thumbs up animation.
Hello and thanks for the great info. My main is a Rad/rad but have played with Emp, Dark, and FF too. This post has me interested in rolling a Kinetic (ok, Im a alt-oholic). This seems to be a pretty high level discussion for the almost 50 crowd. Is it possible to post a Pre-respec build to get one to L26. Problems I foresee:
1) How do u get Siphon power, Transfusion, and Hasten early but still pick up all the needed blasts on time?
2) Sspeed only till high 20's is really just too annoying, one needs to pick up CJ and Hurdle to manage places like TV, even Boom
3) the Sspeed/Stealth combo is gr8 but running around places like steel drawing agro from mobs is a debt magnet without Steatlh in the teens.
Advice on a quick leveling plan till transference would be appreciated, thanks
Eidolon Mutant Rad/Rad L29 Liberty
Great guide. I have a question for leveling up as a kin/ele. How usefully is short circuit pre SOs? Should I slot it or Ball Lightning first? Would having only lightning bolt slotted be ok pre 32.
Thanks.
I'll be over there tonight as Fallout Phil, to get some ideas hopefully for Bombast's respec. Right now, he's a bit gimped with no real defenses (he has Stealth and Maneuvers, and neither slotted up properly), so I'd love to see how you guys do it.
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Downside of Leadership stuff is it takes just so damn long to start back up once you get held or something.
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No argument at all about that - I drop psychic wail a LOT so I'm regularly refiring my toggles. I've found, however, that's a good "cool down" period for me to regen some end and allow other teammates to clean up the foes that managed to survive. When you get held and stunned, however, it's just annoing (one of the reasons I was so hopeful that Mind Over Body would be a self mez protection power...).
Syphon Strike
Prophet of The Ancients Returned
50 Kinetics/Psychic Defender - Virtue
Back after two years of WoW!
Pre-Tranferance and SOs it's probably better to play like a single target blaster.
Without Transferance, you're going to run dry popping SC every 10 seconds or so. When that happens you're doomed.
Plus, without FS there's no real reason to be AEing large groups of mobs. With only SP you get just as much of a damage boost from 1 guy as you'd get from 10.
Once I got Transferance, SC became viable against small groups of mobs even though it only had DOs in it at the time (had been exping with the wrong contacts 
).
Up until SOs I pretty much just cycled Charged Bolts and Lightning Bolt until the mob died. Boring but effective. AEs never got a look in because I didn't have the +recovery I needed to support them. That's solo of course, in a group I spent so much end on buffing and healing I couldn't really spare any for my fairly gimpy attacks.
On endurance use, particularly since I'm going to bring a no-stam 6-slot CP build tonight (I *think* I'm happy with the slotting... we'll see)...
Combat Jumping costs .08, and provides a defense buff of 5%.
Stealth costs .375, and provides a defense buff of 7.5%.
6 defense buffs in Stealth = 16.5% (from even level SOs, not taking into account ++ SOs here).
5% + 16.5% = 21.5%, end usage is .0586 + .375 for .4336.
Vs 22.5% and .455 if you just put all defbuf in.
If, on the other hand, you switched it and put a def buff in CJ and an end reducer in Stealth, you get the following:
6% + 15% = 21% (or -.5% defense), end usage is .08 + .2745 = .3546
(all from toggle cost calculator).
Net savings by doing this is .08 end, for a reduction in -.5% of defense. Personally, I'm probably going to do it this way going no-stam... but wouldn't do it that way if I had stamina... I'd probably just go all +def.
It probably doesn't matter a whole lot either way, but for me, that .5% loss in defense is worth the .08 end gain. Razor edges, like someone said.
I was surprised at how much getting The Atlas Medallion and Portal Jockey changes the equation though... I don't have any accolades on my kinetic (yet)... should have Freedom Phalanx and Atlas Medallion today... (finally getting around to finding the badges and plaques... all the arrest missions have been done for a while).
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
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I was surprised at how much getting The Atlas Medallion and Portal Jockey changes the equation though... I don't have any accolades on my kinetic (yet)... should have Freedom Phalanx and Atlas Medallion today... (finally getting around to finding the badges and plaques... all the arrest missions have been done for a while).
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GET! THE! ACCOLADES!!
Seriously, the accolades make such an enormous difference. Get the +HP ones because they increase your survivability in a huge way (+health AND +regen due to the higher base HP). Get the +end ones because they make a huge difference in your end usage - it's staggering the difference they make on your end regeneration... Also get the Archmage Accolade because it is, simply put, the best accolade available. Use it any time you're 1) in deep crap and about to die - it will save your life in those situations 90% of the time or 2) about to take on an AV because it gives you the safety in the early stages of the fight allowing you to set up your cycle of siphon power/fulcrum shift to debuff the av into the stone ages.
Obviously the accolades are insanely helpful for all characters - this isn't just a kinetics defender thing, but get them! Invest the time into hunting for the badges you need for these accolades. It's mind numblingly tedious and annoying (really, it is... The Master Illusionist badge especially...) but it is SO worth it. Cannot overstate that.
Get the accolades.
Syphon Strike
Prophet of The Ancients Returned
50 Kinetics/Psychic Defender - Virtue
Back after two years of WoW!
Out of curiosity, J_B, you say you're bringing a 6 slotted CP build. What other power in the power mastery pool got the axe so you could 6 slot that?
I'd LOVE to 6 slot CP, I just can't find the freakin slots to do it.
Unfortunately, I don't have a single character with high enough clearance to get to your testing area in the Shard, or I'd be there. I expect a full report from the observers on the sheer awesomeness of this build 
The shard really isn't going to be a good place to test this out. Takes too long to get deep enough into it, and a lot of ppl don't like traveling around in there.
I think the best idea is going to be to get as big a group together as we possibly can, set the mission slider to "Invincible" and hit a mission. That way, we can test out builds by all going into the mission and taking on the bigger mission spawns.
For that reason, I'd really like to get as many people to show up as possible.
2 slotting PBU.
I figure I'll use it for the occasional boost, and for nuking.
I really like to nuke, toggle-dropping be damned.
I already have a build like that on test, but for some reason I decided to do without siphon power.
I haven't decided if I'm just going to one-slot Siphon Power (I only use it for AVs anyway these days... Transference is the superior boss debuff and Fulcrum Shift is the superior buff)... or go one acc and 1 recharge.
I rarely solo bosses, although FS + SP + TF + Transference + Moonbeam = not a bad boss killing sequence.
I am going no-stam, but trying out the CJ/SJ/Acro, Stealth, TI, hasten/SS route. With 6-slotted CP for recharge, CP is up 90 seconds, down around 60.
BTW: Picked up Atlas Medallion and Freedom Phalanx. Archmage and Portal Jockey are going to take some work.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
It'd be neat if we could get Sir Payens.
He's on my home server, Infinity, and he's the kin/en guy.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
Is he back in the defender camp? I think he's playing his new blaster these days.
Of course, I'm one to talk, seeing as my alt is going outlevel my main by the end of the month...lol
Well, he's back in the "active accounts" group anyway... since Payens is 50, not like he's got that much to look forward to...
No chance of my fire tanker outleveling my main at this point... after the Update goes live, though, it'll probably be my main for a while... or my spine/dark scrapper, he's really fun at the moment (22, all SO'd up and using spine burst/death shroud/quills for massive AOE destruction).
My kheldian... we'll see.
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
Well, I'm on (as Syphon Strike3) but the server is TWITCHY! so I don't know if we'll be able to do any long running testing... I hope so because it'd be very cool. Already did some quick stuff with Captain Voltaic and Kinetic Barbie (Quason and JB) and seeing some interesting things between the builds already.
Anyhow, going to log back in now...
Syphon Strike
Prophet of The Ancients Returned
50 Kinetics/Psychic Defender - Virtue
Back after two years of WoW!
I made a quickie supergroup, Kinetic Testers Anonymous - send Syphon3 or Kinetic Barbie3 a tell - that's the build I'm about to respec (if the server stays up long enough to let me).
Currently: 50s (5), 40s (3), 30s (5)
Red and blue side, mostly Infinity, Virtue, and Freedom.
Bah. You guys had to do this tonight when Lost was on!
Okay, we just finished a couple of hours of testing, and I think we all learned a few things.
I learned that knockback CAN be a good thing for kinetics. Whoda thunk it? Syphon Strike used it to his advantage, and kept mezzers on their backs.
I learned that Siphon Power needs to go back into my build. Everyone but me (I was the only one who didn't have SP) was able to easily tank a DE giant monster without using temp invul, using only the debuffing ability of FS + SP.
I learned that Power Mastery is by FAR not the only viable epic pool for a kinetic. JB used dark mastery to amazing effect, stacking dark pit + oppressive gloom for controller-like AoE mezzing, and tenebrous tentacles to keep the dazed mobs from wandering off.
I learned that Whirlwind is a good power, believe it or not. I'd never had a good experience with it, but Bombast was able to use it to lessen the impact of the alpha strike from large spawns.
I think my build (kin/elec/power) was the safest soloer. I was able to handle pretty large spawns of +2 and +3 mobs in missions with less risk than the other three testers. I also think I might have killed large spawns just a BIT faster with my AoEs than the other three.
Syphon (kin/psi/power) was the fastest boss killer. To test this, he and I found two death mages side by side and attacked them at the same time. His died a good 10-15 seconds before mine did.
JB (kin/dark/dark) enjoyed the most convenience while fighting, I believe. By using TT, his mobs stayed nice and packed the way he wanted them to, and the mezzing affect of dark pit + OG made things quite a bit less hectic for him as he was fighting.
Bombast (kin/energy)... wow. His was the most unique fighting style I think. Stealthed into a spawn, lined himself up, activated whirlwind to lessen the alpha strike, then just cut loose. While the other three of us stayed more or less in place as we fought, he zipped around the mobs like a gnat. It was very entertaining to watch, and very effective.
I think the whole point of this was to establish the fact that this thread has little to do with just a kin/elec build, or any kinetic build for that matter since we also had a rad/rad with us for a while. I think it's more about learning to let go of a little of that "support class" stigma and cutting loose on some mobs solo once in a while.
If anyone else would like to share your build and your solo strategy, I'd like to hear it. Thanks to JB, Syph, and Bombast for helping me test and teaching me a few things.
Well, I got to play with Quason, JB and someone else who I forgot to ask what his board identity is - his kin def is Bombast...
Anyhow, Quason's build is pretty sweet. If you are looking for a safe and effecient kinetics build, pay attention to his guide. He is incredibly safe in almost every fight he gets into which makes him very effective. His foes rarely have any end so all they can do is slap him or explode upon death. Seriously, short of a few "where did they come from??" moments where we got jumped by mobs we didn't see, the only time I saw his health below 75% was when a mob exploded upon death. Damn effective build.
I've long said that /elec has a wonderful defensive synergy with kinetics and he showed it in all its glory.
JB was using two (I think it was just the two) builds, testing which one he wants for after I3 goes live, and one of them had a couple new powers (like hover) that he was trying to get used to so his testing was a little screwy from time to time but, after watching him in action, I will totally revise my opinion of Stamina for kinetics - it is not _needed._ I think it's very valuable but, with some practice, you can easily learn how to get by without it. He had end problems as often as I did, which is to say exceedingly rarely. Also, /dark may not have an innate synergy with kinetics but it's a damn fine secondary. Again, it's safe - it imposes a wonderful acc penalty on the targets and thus you get hit a lot less often. Now, his health did fluctuate more than Quason's but it was certainly within a realm that one could manage if careful. Very nice build.
Bombast was only on for a short time (he was playing his rad/rad defender with us for the first bit) but he did show that whirlwind can be a useful power, if used properly. His secondary is energy which meant he was FAR more mobile than the rest of us - he was regularly moving back and forth to ensure the foes were knocked in the direction he wanted them to bounce. It also meant his health bounced all over the place more than ours because of some missed transfusions but he's obviously learned to deal with the knockback (it comes with practice, after all) and he was more than capable with the build. If you enjoy or don't mind moving around a lot, /energy is pretty sweet. The rest of us played a far more stable style with minimal movement while he, by comparrison, looked like a ferret on speed.
Uh, with energy bolts coming out of his hands... 
I think I impressed people in two instances. First, my build is about offense and overwhelming, fast offense at that. When we weren't tackling psi-resistant targets (there are a number of them in the high level game) I think I was taking out foes faster than the others. Certainly in single target fights I was the fastest. That comes from having found a nice sweet-spot balance of damage SOs and recharge SOs and having a secondary that hits HARD. Also, I think I demonstrated to Quason that knockback (via TKBlast) is really pretty sweet when used properly.
Second, and this was amusing (well, for me at least... , at one point we were talking about kinetics and radiation. Quason made the comment that "radiation were TANKmages and kinetics were tankMAGES." I asked "Really? Rad can't really tank." They were all stunned that I'd say such a thing but, honestly, compared to a kin, rads can't... In my opinion... Yeah, they were similarly blown away that I'd say such a thing. I made mention of tanking monsters so we all raced out to monster island. Quason went after a lattice and laughed at its pitiful attempts to hurt it. With Temporary Invulnerability on (which rocks). I suggested he turn it off. BOOM! ouch. BOOM! ouch. BOOM! OUCH! Dead...
Now, remember how Quason suggested not taking Siphon Power. I proceeded to turn off temp invuln and went up to a Quarry and started talking smack to it while spamming siphon power and fulcrum shift with the periodic use of transfusion. They then realized why I said I think kinetics are the TANKmages... There was no chance, even without temporary invulnerability, of the quarry hurting me (if I had turned temp invuln on, it would have been a total joke). On his way back from the hospital, he made a comment along the lines of "how's it going Syphon - oh, I see you're not tanking a monster" (probably because he saw my health barely moving. Then he got to the island...
I think he'll be adding Siphon Power back into his build.
Seriously though, it was very cool seeing the different play styles. I think the safest was easily Quason's build followed by JB's, primarily because they've taken good advantage of the secondary effects of their secondaries. I was blown away to watch Quason seriously lock foes at zero end. Foes with zero end can just slap you. And slaps don't hurt. Especially with temporary invulnerability running.
I think my build was the most "on the razor's edge" of the builds - fast and heavy hitting but one misstep can spell disaster. That said, I jumped into one fight and got mezzed off the start so I figured I was toast - it was just a matter of time. In the end, I won despite my alpha being thrown off and thus everything else in the fight being a scramble. Really, I'm quite happy with the build I have on test and suspect I know exactly what I'll be doing when I3 goes live... Though I was probably the most "on the edge" of the three builds there, I actually was able to handle a lot more than I expected... Took on two death mages at the same time so that's not too shabby...
The key thing I really saw was how a kinetics defender can be played in very different styles and be very effective. Thus, honestly, if you ever want to know how to play a kinetics defender, ask. We're a pretty damn good group of people and more than willing to offer advice. The other thing, listen to what the person has to say and see if it suits your style. If it does, great. If not, someone else probably has a suggestion that fits your style. Because, really, there are several different styles to playing a kin def and they are all effective. I think Quason and I had the two builds at the opposite ends of the spectrum but I feel we were both equally effective, just in different ways. Just find the way that fits your style of play.
It was a great night - glad I got to play with you guys.
Syphon Strike
Prophet of The Ancients Returned
50 Kinetics/Psychic Defender - Virtue
Back after two years of WoW!
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Syphon (kin/psi/power) was the fastest boss killer. To test this, he and I found two death mages side by side and attacked them at the same time. His died a good 10-15 seconds before mine did.
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The first time we did this was hysterical. I beat my guy down and, in the end, he blew himself up trying to take me with him (but failed). Quason jokingly said "No fair, yours blew himself up."
Just as his did the exact same thing.
(We did this similar test a number of other times and the results were about the same every time though that was about the only time the mages blew up - it was just funny that it happened to both of us, in the same fight, AS quason was joking that my faster victory was unfair. )
Syphon Strike
Prophet of The Ancients Returned
50 Kinetics/Psychic Defender - Virtue
Back after two years of WoW!
yeah yeah... make fun of the kin/elec. everyone point and laugh at poor quason. *sigh*
For real tho, Siphon Power is definately getting squeezed back into the build somewhere, but I have to figure out what to drop. Any suggestions?
Two suggestions Quason, either go the no Stamina route or drop Aim. With only the dfault slot in Aim its not like its getting that much use, an accuracy insperation can cover for it, allowing you to get SP with the default slot.
As for Stamina, I find I get along well without it. You might be too spoiled by it to cope without it , but its definately doable. Transference is supplying more end on test right now (not sure how much, haven't taken the time to test the bajezus out of it yet), changing slotting there for recharge might partly compinsate for the loss of stamina.
The real downside to dropping Stamina is you lose the regen after your big nuke. You HAVE to use a CaB before you can get back in to using Trans. With Stamina you can be up and going again in 3 seconds or so. That's probably the single biggest reason I don't use my nuke as often as I could.
Grouped with a rad, emp or another kin it's okay... but solo I very rarely use it because I get stuck with 10 seconds of "kill me please" mode.
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A question Syphon - are your defenses such that you rarely get hit now, and thus don't have to heal yourself much?
Or do you still tend to get hit quite a bit, necessitating a lot of use of Transfusion?
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Two parts to that answer. Well, probably more than two because I like to ramble...
First, with my defenses, fighting even level stuff, I get hit rarely. Hover, hasten, and five-slotted maneuvers is about 25% +def. I'm cutting minions chances to hit me in half (down to about 25%) so minions pose exceedingly little threat. I remember, while testing Temporary Invulnerability on the test server (against even con Nemesis), I had to turn off hover and maneuvers so they could hit me... I wasn't able to see damage results because they missed so often... So, yes, my defenses are generally good enough that they make a very noticeable difference.
Second, I often team with a storm defender buddy who runs maneuvers and steamy mists (and I'm always near him, in the center of the fight) which kicks my def up to 65%-ish. Which is pretty damn good...
Now, the flip side to all this is my build is built to excel in groups and, ideally, large groups (more targets = better) and I often end up fighting up the colour curve. Thus, I end up getting hit more and more often. But, I'm still cutting things down by about 25% just on my own and further depending on the other characters/powers present. Since I still do get hit, however, I've slotted transfusion as I have - for recharge - I'd rather it be up and ready to fire than have one big green number. I've found more, regular healing is more effective than larger, sporadic healing.
After all, Quason might heal for a lot more than I do, but if he misses, it'll take longer for him to try again while I'll be refiring transfusion in about 5 seconds. I've found this really limits the number of crash deaths due to a miss, dead target, moved target, etc.
Thus, in conclusion, my defenses are enough that I'm pretty darn effective. Transfusion covers things for when I'm not.
Put it this way - if this makes any sense - I regularly use my sniper shot and haven't slotted it for interrupt reduction...
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I found that, especially pre-respec when I had NO DEFENSES, that Transfusion was my defense. Pretty much my only one. Other than the -acc from my dark attacks, which, of course, I didn't really have anything to compare to.
So I learned to manage my green bar like a hawk.
Once I had Transference, and particularly with permahasten, I simply did the exact same thing with my blue bar.
It took practice, that's for sure. And slotting end reducers in some of my attacks. But y'know... making an attack go from 19 to, what, 14 or so end? That's not a bad tradeoff.
...
All it takes is practice... and I wouldn't necessarily expect an hour or two on the test server would be enough practice.
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Given that you used transfusion as your defense method, I can see how you developed the same style of play that makes transference workable as your source of end. Since I went the route of "you can't hit me!" and paid less and less attention on my bar, it would be a drastic shift for me. I pay more attention to my teammates' bars than my own...
Syphon Strike
Prophet of The Ancients Returned
50 Kinetics/Psychic Defender - Virtue
Back after two years of WoW!