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what are you wooting? Statesman said nothing.
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Really?
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The increased aggro is something that's close to implementation
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If that counts as nothing to you other MMORPG designers must somehow give out negative integers of information.
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"The increased aggro is something that's close to implementation. "
are we short agro? i alwayse thought we were just peachy, maybe a little on the strong side 
is it about provokeish effect being added to the AT lines rather than pool?
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Yes he's referring to the provoke style effect in all Tanker melee attacks.
Heheh, that is true, Ape. My apologies. We tankers are indeed a rare breed. I just wish they wouldn't moan about our longevity in battle. I would be more than happy to give them some defenses so long as they'd also like to give me some of their offenses. Hmmm...
I'll trade my level 5 ability, Unyielding Stance (which they could use, since they have ranged attacks) for Ball Lightning or Lightning Bolt, which are 2 and 3 level attacks. I'd trade it for Power Burst or Sniper Blast, which are 4 and 5 level attacks. Seems fair to me! I'd even trade it for Lightning field, which would fit my Invul/EM tank quite well and give me a PBAoE DoT aura. Hah!
Any takers?
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....The increased damage has proven a tad problematic, but we're wrestling with some ways around it. I'm afraid I can't give anything definite there.
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Sounds like you're having trouble coming up with a simple Boolean Condition for it. When ya announced the idea at first, I immediately thought "Now how in the hell will they detect that one?" ...Still not sure.
Might have an Idea though... Progressively increase the Tank's damage for every unit of Base Endurance** they Expend on Secondary powers only. HOWEVER, apply a Normalizing Decrease in Damage as well for every unit of Endurance they gain back, like for example, from having Stamina.... Otherwise Stamina will become even more of a 'Must-Have" than it already is.
** (This in turn would make EnduranceReducer ENH's progressively double as Damage Enhancers)
...And of course put a Cap on it to ensure that a Tank doesn't run every group in a Zone completely out of Endurance but doing 1,000 damage per hit 
HTH!
PS: This would be very simple Math too since We always have 100 total-Endurance usually. A player could simply approximate the the amount of extra damage they're getting simply by looking at how low on Endurance they are and factoring it by their Endurance Reducer slotting on Secondaries.
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Stop counting the days until you get your beanie hat with battery powered propeller
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I have no idea what that is supposed to mean in this context 
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It's a Calvin & Hobbes reference.
like most attacks will make an aoe of provokedness?
I did my 34-43 respec and took Provoke, 
does that mean I have to wait til 44 to respec? Do we get a free respec in that case?
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I did my 34-43 respec and took Provoke, does that mean I have to wait til 44 to respec? Do we get a free respec in that case?
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HAHAHAH... ahaha..ha.
Yeah that'd be the day. Then anytime a new update comes out, you'd have to offer a free respec to everyone, just to balance.
Because you know if they did that and let tankers get another respec everyone else will [censored] that they want a respec, and the newer tankers will complain that they want 4 respecs because the older ones got 4, yadda yadda yadda, Statesman gets triple bypass, dies, and then we get a developer that is anal retentive and doesn't listen to anything we ask.
2 weeks ago we didn't have any respecs, if you burned all three out in 2 weeks, well that may have been a bit hasty.
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I think once tanker attacks get a provoke effect it will help against AoE aggro. You just keep punching and stuff sticks to you. Also remember there is only so much a tank can do. At some point it is up to the blaster to not be stupid enough to pull aggro on himself so bad that a tank can't get it back.
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I see what youre saying, Wargun, although I was commenting on something different. There was a concern that pre-20 Tankers are not the indestructible power houses they are after they fully enter their archetype. If an AOE provoke effect is tied to each of their attacks, they may be drawing more attention to themselves in any given battle than they can actually handle. Ive had a few Tanker characters, and my lower level one can handle X number of bad guys (depending on the villain group) and no more. The rest I have to depend on my team to handle in their own way while I tank the majority. Sure, its my job to be the meat shield, but my team realizes that theyre going to be in a much worse situation if I take on more than I can handle and die, leaving nothing between them and all of the villains.
The solution they're working on gives us an easier way of attaining aggro, but depending on how they implement it it can get a lot of Tankers killed. I'm not wild about an AoE provoke tied to my attacks which can only be controlled by either attacking or not and would really like to hear more about what they're considering.
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what are you wooting? Statesman said nothing. Geez, if the guy took a [censored] you'd probably cast it in bronze.
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Statesman took a crap? Where!? Show me! I must obtain it for my collection!
...jerkass
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like most attacks will make an aoe of provokedness?
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Yup.
How about Ice Tankers? They don't make 'em any worse than Ice...wooeee.
* Hibernate shuts down your toggles for a whopping 5 seconds before it triggers = death
* Icicles doesn't do cold damage.
* Utterly useless at the 40+ range
* Spines / Invuln Scrappers are overwhelmingly better tankers than Ice / anything
* No high level mobs of importance deal cold damage.
Ahhh yes. Hibernate. I don't need to know what it does, I can already tell from a name like Hibernate that it's one hell of a combat power.
Cuz, you know that's what's scary about bears.
They hibernate.
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The increased aggro is something that's close to implementation.
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My apologies if you mentioned this elsewhere and I missed it, but when this change was first announced there was some concern about how deadly increased uncontrollable AoE aggro could be for the weaker lower level (pre-20) Tankers. Has any thought been given towards this, or a solution decided upon?
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I'm worried about the pre-20 tanker and increased aggro as well.
I've got an ss/inv tank at 9, and she's pretty fragile, even with maxed defenses. I've died in several fights my kin/grav controller buddy has survived -- I draw the aggro well enough, but I just can't take the damage.
Other AT's are just doing our jobs better. A prime example:
I got a Vaz mission with my 12 Energy/Energy blaster. I bring along my husband, playing a 12 SS/Inv tanker. Meat shield? He was a meat snack. I pulled with my snipe, they aggroed, and he moved to protect my blaster. He died in a pool of zombie vomit.
Vaz mission, take 2. I play my blaster, he plays a 12 Broadsword/SR scrapper. We sail through the mission.
If we're supposed to be able to draw all this aggro, we should have increased resistance and defenses to go with it -- or a lot of tankers just aren't going to survive to 20.
A lot of this comes from the fact that we don't have a lot of HPs at low level, nor do we have the slots or the SO's required to get the good defenses we need. Vaz puke is particularly painful, and for that reason I lived in Unyielding Stance against those dorks. Most of these problems seem to resolve themselves once we hit our unbalanced powers later on, but I'd still like to share the wealth a little and spread some of that survivability out among the largest percent of the 20 and under game (18 and under for Invul tanks)
I really hope the Taunt/Provoke agro control they add to our atks has a visual effect, much like Porvoke does now. Two reasons. So i can space myself accordingly, and to show my team mates that I AM in fact provoking, pissing off, or gaining agro.
I think they'll get it when the blaster nukes them and they still ignore him.
I don't know if i like the melee causes aoe provoke effect thing. sure its handy, but it doesn't require any skill to use. maybe i'm leary because it could totaly make your tank a tank bot (like old provoke).
maybe i'm just always the conservative one
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I really hope the Taunt/Provoke agro control they add to our atks has a visual effect, much like Porvoke does now. Two reasons. So i can space myself accordingly, and to show my team mates that I AM in fact provoking, pissing off, or gaining agro.
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Do you really want a visual effect every time you take a swing, in addition to what is already there? Thats a lot of constant screen noise.
I agree, Umagon. Automated and uncontrollable, thats not a direction I really want to go. I wish they would discuss this with us a bit more.
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I really hope the Taunt/Provoke agro control they add to our atks has a visual effect, much like Porvoke does now. Two reasons. So i can space myself accordingly, and to show my team mates that I AM in fact provoking, pissing off, or gaining agro.
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Do you really want a visual effect every time you take a swing, in addition to what is already there? Thats a lot of constant screen noise.
I agree, Umagon. Automated and uncontrollable, thats not a direction I really want to go. I wish they would discuss this with us a bit more.
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There's an effect every time they provoke anyway, so there's not really a difference.
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I really hope the Taunt/Provoke agro control they add to our atks has a visual effect, much like Porvoke does now. Two reasons. So i can space myself accordingly, and to show my team mates that I AM in fact provoking, pissing off, or gaining agro.
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I'm hoping they do this too. I'm worried I'll never be able to tell if it's working or not.
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There's an effect every time they provoke anyway, so there's not really a difference.
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...
Sure there is. Im 100% certain that some of us take a swing at the bad guys a lot more often than we provoke.
That would be a lot of unneeded spam, in my opinion. Villains flocking to me will be all the feedback I need.
The provoke factor would be fine as long as the Devs make it a function of level. It could max out in the early twenties and stay the same for the rest of the game.
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The increased aggro is something that's close to implementation....The increased damage has proven a tad problematic, but we're wrestling with some ways around it. I'm afraid I can't give anything definite there.
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Save a respec for a rainy day
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I have very little sympathy for a blaster who says he's not doing enough damage. Maybe we'll get some tanker converts if we actually start hurting something!
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You dont really want those kind of converts do you? Ape perfers to think that many of the tankers are a little different breed of monkey and we dont need the 'uber' class/power set searching type of player.