Statesman, issue with your position on blasters
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Update 2 essentially killed the blaster. I have a good friend, Maklov 41 Fire/Dev who quit CoH simply because he can no longer solo anything without the awesome: cloak, aim, trops, mine, t bomb, fire ball, inferno combo... :'( so basically they've killed soloing blasters altogether which is a shame
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It sounds like what you really mean is "Issue 2 killed the soloing smoke grenade blaster."
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Many people have become hysterical and agreed to all sorts of things in the past, so having whatever number of people agree with you on something that hasn't happened yet is rather meaningless.
Fact is that Statesman has stated he believes all ATs should be able to solo, even if they do not solo equally as well. It is hard to imagine that translates to Blasters being at the end of the list let alone unable to do so.
As to fairness, it is wholely fair to balance the game for the enjoyment of all over allowing some to have a cakewalk, and there is no way around that.
Under construction
I guess what eats me is a total lack of response concerning blasters. This post has his name on it yet 11 pages later we see nothing by anyone on the Dev team. IMO they messed up, don't have the balls to talk with their customers on it post patch, and IMO they have decided to the interest of their paycheck, to cut their losses now, loose some customers, so that in the long run those that try CoH will take an average of 2-3x as long to hit that lofty level 50 mark.
I've read a solid 90% of the posts on this particular board and I've yet to see a single Dev response. NOW...this is indeed assuming that Dev's are allowed on the blaster boards, that the Dev's sometime read these posts and that they are allowed to post here but for whatever reason are choosing not too. If they have posted on other boards then I haven't seen them as the amount of content on here is about all one can hope to keep up with, though why they would post about blasters on a non blaster board is beyond me.
All this praise about the great response from these people "was" well earned. But like that good Samaritan who helps an old lady across the street, but lets her get run over by a truck because he is afraid to stick his [censored] out there when times are tough, I've little use and little praise. IMO, with all this discourse and misunderstanding as to the true intentions of the Dev team and this patch, this is the time we should be hearing from them the most, in "our" time of need.
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the discussion is whether blasters CAN be effective at soloing, once the DEVs make the changes they tarted they will make.
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You think the changes would only matter to blasters? Tankers, besides fire, still don't solo very fast. Blasters easily outpace them even with a ton of debt. Controllers pre-32 are going to have an even harder time of it. Scrappers pre-22 are going to have an even harder time of it. And if the defenses of the tankers start to matter, thats going to seriously impact the ability of scrappers as well.
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I proposed that it was becoming less and less likely. Many others agree.
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Only the devs know for sure what directions they're moving in, so making theories based on a sentence here and there is hardly good reasoning. The net effect will likely be that blasters do not solo as well as they once did. They might actually want to group. Fights might actually last long enough that all the AT's can contribute to an encounter. Sounds good to me.
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That is why I say its not fair to us blasters to make so dramatic changes in the game, at a point where we spent hours to create characters with the expectation that we will be able to play them the same way in the future.
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I think it's distinctly unfair that for months one AT's design has essentially been able to run rampant negating much of the need of the other AT's in the high level game. You don't need a healer if you never take damage, you don't need a controller to control mobs if they die instantly. Tankers might herd mobs into nice tight groups, but beside that, no need. Scrappers just chase corpses. As far as I know, Scrappers still don't do much in the Hamidon battle.
If we're going by the concept that the Devs ease back on the stun madness, and increase the mob hp (and exp rewards) Blasters will still be able to Alpha Strike blues and greens, and make more exp than most builds in most AT's. This debate seems like a lot of hot air.
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Could you please post your Blaster build that is designed to engage in long-term battles?
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...or are you wanting a general build for all blasters to go by?
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It appears that you understand fairly well that blasters mitigate their loss of HP by "downing" as many opponents as possible with alpha strikes. This is seen across the board with ALL blaster builds. Whether soloing or teaming, a blaster will attempt to down their target-of-choice (minions for the AoE blaster, Lts/Bosses for the single-target focused blaster) in the first 1-2 volleys. In the subsequent rounds is where trouble is unavoidable....I think that the blaster would need a generalized guide by which to build in order to survive encounters where all of the targets-of-choice would remain standing and returning fire......in the present, this equates to the blaster being on the ground in the first round, not a very attractive build and certainly not as advertised.
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Taking it off the table for now, what remains? Knockback/Knockdown, Disorient, Slow, Immobilize, and Hold at least. Mitigation takes the form of resistance, +Defense, -Accuracy/To-Hit Debuffs, healing, damage reduction (not open to Blasters)
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With the exception of the Knockback/Knockdown (Energy/AR) and Slow (Ice), none of the others will apply to the Blaster outside of the power pools. If you count that the Energy blaster can disorient with the punches, then we have to start arguing for the blaster to become a melee-oriented AT, and also a boost to those methods should definitely be enhanced on the characters. Also, immediately following implementation of a HP increase for minions, will be the proliferation of Energy/Energy blasters and possibly Ice/Ice. The AR and Fire builds will both be forgotten because the AR will never produce a viable character without enhancing the M30 and Buckshot powers, which are sorely lacking presently. The Fire will be forgotten entirely, because no one wants to go through "life" only half-way doing damage. In a solo fight, the development would be stifled prior to Hasten 6-slotted w/ SOs, since your alpha attack would result in all of the enemies returning fire on you, and your single-target attacks are fairly weak.
The point being, you are describing a Defender, not a blaster. The description of the blaster is that there is very poor defense and extreme offense, a ranged attacker. A character class should not need to engage in the power pools in order to survive, this is a ridiculous assertion. If the character is incapable of surviving using their primary & secondary power sets, then they are ill conceived.
Again, it is my opinion that blaster should be left alone, and I play defenders primarily, if you're asking.
Let me ask a couple of questions;
1. Is CoH a competition to see who can get to 50th level the fastest?
2. Is CoH a PvP system (presently, Hero vs. Hero)?
3. Does the blaster's exp/min rate affect other heroes?
4. Do blasters ONLY solo, leaving teams scrounging for damage dealers for TFs?
5. If the minion HP were raised, thereby reducing the effects of the blaster, would you prefer to have two scrappers or two blasters on your team for a TF? Consider the amount of defense and healing required to keep a 1/2 effective teamate alive, when they bring NOTHING else to the table besides the 1/2 damage they deal, and are constantly in need of attention/buffing/healing thereby hurting the rest of the team....I know, every blaster gets a pet medic 
6. Would you be happier if we just eliminated the blaster AT?
7. If/When you play a blaster, would you be frustrated if every fight you had resulted in you being down to 0 endurance and 1/2 HP? Or, would you consider it a challange and run off to see if you could brawl the next mob into submission while you recover end/hp?
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I would focus on taking as much of those as you can get
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1. 24 powers; take into account travel and fitness (that's 5 minimum). 19 powers; We now have two pools to use, Stealth & Leadership. Blasters receive the lowest bonus (does that mean its a penalty?) for Leadership...so, let's avoid that. Take CJ/SJ/Acrobatics instead....every blaster MUST become a super jumper to persue Acrobatics (Hover offers same def bonus 5-11% as CJ, but Acrobatics makes Jump line worth more). So, that 6 powers, leaving 18. Take Stealth, Fighting or Leadership. Four more powers for those? Leaves 14 powers. Should be plenty, right? Why not just make a Power Pool AT? EVERY blaster will be REQUIRED to use 10 power pool selections just to be viable for developing, and most of those will not be able to take early in the game to even develop. So, lets all go out and make Super-Jumper blasters that can't run down the street at 10th level without dying.....
2. Blasters focusing on defense......hmmm, seems a curious way to build. Why don't I just go build a defender instead? I can get a half-decent build out of my defender and have defense/buff/debuff right off the bat! How about I just build a Rad/Dark, FF/Dark and then I can use Dk Blast, Gloom, Moonbeam, Tenebrous Tenticles, Nightfall & Blackstar and be a solo machine!!!!! muhahahahahah.....whoops, I can see the fingers hovering over the nerf button already.....
Erratic,
I can let my defender focus on Defense/Buff/Debuff and secondary on offense, but I can't have my blaster focus on offense and secondary on defense. And, its the Devs' fault! They made the Blaster's secondary "Support" and not defense. You look at the other ATs and what are their Primary and Secondary power sets?
Tank - Defense/Melee
Scrapper - Melee/Defense
Controller - Control/Buff
Defender - Buff/Ranged
Blaster - Ranged/Support
Why is that? Why isn't it "Control", which seems like the most logical considering the other builds? Or, in the least, why not Ranged/Buff? It doesn't make sense, and it is the devs' fault.
If there is a problem with the Blaster, then there needs to be defense added, bonus given to defensive power pools choices, and/or more control/buff/defense secondary powers. As it stands now, if those changes are not forthcoming, you may as just eliminate the AT.
IMHO, I think everyone would be a lot happier if they just increased the amount of exp for missions/TFs/etc. so that more blasters would team, then all the nerf-brayers (bray, as in a jackass) would calm down.
Me, I have to solo many times, and when I do, I play either my defender or occasionally my blaster.
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No, I would have you recognize that insufficient defense means not surviving long enough to use all the offense you stocked up on
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See? You agree with me that the Devs' gimped the Blaster from the beginning. If they had just given us some Def/Contrl/Buff/Debuff options, this would never have been and issue. Its sad that the Devices secondary is the only one that seems capable of doing the control portion, and that's the thing that bothers everyone so much....caltrops gets "fixed", smoke grenade gets "fixed"....I wouldn't be surprised if Trip Mine and Targeting Drone get looked at next...
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Is it absolutely necessary to have every damage dealing power open to you to be a good blaster?
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No. The AT most people whine about is the Fire/Dev, and they use very few of their primary...Fire Breath, Fireball, and blast/flares (or both). Blaze maybe a little later as well as Inferno, but mostly SG --> SS --> Trip Mine --> Caltrops --> Firebreath --> Fireball or something along those lines....and the thing that gets me, people whine about the control portion of the build!
OK, so how about we look at this differently? Give the villians more HP, but give the blasters control powers, then the blasters can hold the villians while they wait for their powers to regen..........hmmm
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...don't defenses give you more opportunity to use your offense?
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This would assume that you had both defensive AND offensive powers. The blaster doesn't. If the blaster HAS TO HAVE defensive powers to stay alive, then it needs to be in the secondary....that is all I have to say. The power pool is to supplement every hero, not to be a pre-requisite.
/me goes back to playing my defender again.....but starts eyeing that fire Tank.....
Nice post, from another experienced blaster.
You hit on the most important issue, I think, and that is that the Devices line is the ONLY real control secondary in the blaster line-up. And, if you look over my previous post, it would be logical to assume that the blaster should have gotten a control secondary for each, from the beginning. Raising the HP of the minions would be less of an issue then.
With Blasters having low def/high off, they deserve to have the control secondary, not a "support" secondary. Its the logical progression following the builds of the other ATs and its a logical answer for the changes that have been proposed. The blaster simply cannot be a viable build if the changes proposed are implemented and there is not something done to aid the blaster in lasting beyond the initial engagement.
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Just so that my stance is clear, I do think that blasters need some help, since mobs are now tougher. What I have issues with are the scrapper nerf calls. It's ridiculous to say we have better AOEs and overpowered defenses. Not all scrappers are Inv. It sure doesn't help the blaster cause when a few are outright lying and exagerrating or just clueless. And doesn't anyone have a blaster friend or scrapper? Why the heck are we at each other's throats?
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I don't know, possibly because originally, everyone was out to pull the rug out from under the Blaster, especially the Fire/* blaster. And, the nerfs did come....
Really now, I cannot fathom why anyone wants to, or even cares about, changes to an AT so that they are less effective at say, grinding against mobs of mobs. We each own this game, and hence, we can play whatever AT we want to....if you don't want to play a blaster, don't. But, why get your panties in a bunch because the Fire/Dev blaster could solo their entire career? Make your own Fire/Dev blaster if you want to solo all the time....why should anyone CARE? There are very few people that know me online (in RL), and they might care that I'm off soloing instead of playing with them, but who else?
Again, I have the same questions;
1. Why should anybody care if an AT is "unbalanced"? This is not a competition, nor a PvP system (yet).
2. Why would anyone care if a power was "uber"? If SG can be abused, then if you're a */Dev blaster, don't use it if it makes the game boring. If you're another player, why do you even care? Really? Why would anyone care other than the Devs, who want to make sure the power does as it was designed, whether that benefits the player or not?
3. Can you not build any AT yourself? If you play this game to "level-[censored]" and then become upset that Fire/Dev can get to level 40 in just 4 weeks (we all know that post, right?), why not build one yourself and satiate your desire to <announcer's voice>POWER POWER POWER</announcer's voice> level? After 4 boring weeks of grinding everynight, I'm sure you'll be over it, and your face will have marks on it from all the times you fell asleep at the keyboard.
4. Are you concerned that others are having more fun than you? If you want to have fun, try playing a controller. To me, holding a bunch of villians while my friends tear them apart is just great fun.
5. Did you buy into the sell that PlayNC gave you that you could solo? Well, get a scrapper.....wait, what if you didn't want to melee? Hmmm, defenders take too long and are really more suited to teaming......well, perhaps take a blaster? How about we have two choices for melee, and two choices for ranged soloing? Wait, we do! But, now everyone wants to make the blaster un-soloable......<small cry>. Scrapper and Blaster should be viable solo choices for those of us that can't always team.
Let me just inform everyone of some things....
- Scrappers can do more damage over time than Blasters can, because they can withstand more damage and move on to the next group. Evidence of this can be found in any TF. After every fight, the blaster is low on end and sometimes hp, the scrapper is slightly low on end and barely touched on hp. If you have 500 hp and a great defense, that is more valuable than having 350 hp and poor defense. Assuming the blaster can do more damage per attack, they still end up with more downtime due to their weak def/hp and the drawing of more aggro because of their more damaging attacks....hence, the exp/min of the scrapper is potentially greater than any blaster on a level playing field.
- Playing a solo blaster/scrapper is boring if you are only playing to level. If you want to go out and hunt down badges, that is different, but just grinding, is boring. You'll notice that the word is "grinding" and not something more......energizing I guess. The daily grind, grinding me down, the project has ground to a halt, grind it into your head.....see? All negative connotations associated with grind. Grinding is not too much fun, so unless you have the mental capacity of a flea, you'll get quickly bored of this game if all you want to do is "level-[censored]".
This game is fun if you do/experience more than just arresting/killing villians in Hazard zones.....badge collection, missions, TFs, story arcs, different AT builds, etc. Those are the things that keep me from getting more than 4 hours of sleep a night......all this infighting and bickering over other players' ATs (asking for nerf, etc.) only makes the game less fun for everyone......No one should have to change they way they want to play because of "balance" issues, that is just ridiculous (do I use that word a lot?). How ean there be balance issues, when there is no PvP?
- If one AT were so "uber" and everyone played that AT, then the game would quickly become stale for those players, and they'd probably either move on to another game, or role up (punny ) another AT. But, the differences between the ATs presently is ever-so-slight, that I don't see a proliferation of any one AT. Every time I look at my Find button, I invariably see a mix of ATs. Do a /who, and I get the same......in the beginning, there might have been more Blasters, but perhaps that is because its the easiest AT to play out of the box. Once people have played awhile, they get the hankerin' for some spankerin'....whoops, I mean, for something different/more interesting. I payed for 6 months up front, so I'm going to get more out of this game than just run-n-gun blaster play, but I don't care in the least if someone else wants to do that, and even if they have a power that completely incapacitates the enemy 95% of the time, I still don't care.
Why should you?
Leave the blasters alone. Leave the mobs alone (except for the over-mez issue) and lets go back to playing.....
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It appears that you understand fairly well that blasters mitigate their loss of HP by "downing" as many opponents as possible with alpha strikes. This is seen across the board with ALL blaster builds.
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I understand this has been the norm, and you'd have to have been asleep to have missed it within the game. Do you understand that it is not desirable from the standpoint of balancing the game between Blasters and the other ATs in a group dynamic and that the days of the prevalence of such an approach are at an end? The game has been commented on by several as being too easy. In truth, depending on what you were playing, it wasn't too easy, but it was too easy for for too many and that is a bad thing from the standpoint of a business trying to continue to exist. Players don't stick with things that are trivial. They run themselves up to 50, see no reason to do so again, and quit. And in a game where various ATs have very heavy incentive to group, being along for a ride where they literally get to do nothing because one other AT gets to one-strike everything to death is boring and something that leads to those people quitting the game too. So the one-shot is bad for the game both on the player side and on the business side. And arguing that it should be preserved because someone got used to it is silly. If the decision comes down to losing people either way the smart thing to do is go with the way that while losing people results in the best long term interests of the game. Guess what? That isn't the one-shot. So that means the choice facing people playing Blasters is to adapt to the change or leave. Its that simple. And while I'm not inviting anyone to leave, it would be far less stressful on them to cut to brass tacks, assess the situation as described, and figure out which course they want to take.
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Taking it off the table for now, what remains? Knockback/Knockdown, Disorient, Slow, Immobilize, and Hold at least. Mitigation takes the form of resistance, +Defense, -Accuracy/To-Hit Debuffs, healing, damage reduction (not open to Blasters)
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With the exception of the Knockback/Knockdown (Energy/AR) and Slow (Ice), none of the others will apply to the Blaster outside of the power pools.
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And what is the problem with this? Scrappers and Tankers at the very least regularly make heavy use of the power pool powers to flesh out their builds. Somehow they manage to fulfill their function in game doing so. There should be incentive in a game for you to want more powers than you can take. That's what drives variety and keeps the game from devolving into a handful of optimized builds--that you can't have it all. And if there is pressure for Blasters to go to the power pools, you can rest assured there is pressure on Controllers and Defenders to go there to (Scrappers and Tankers already making visits there on a regular basis). Indeed, there is a thread in the Defender forum talking about respecing to bring up defenses via the power pool on an AT that supposedly has among the best defenses (it is named 'Defender' after all) in the game. Stop and think about that, no gnashing of teeth on their end, endless wailing here. Again, the game is changing and while there should be an eye kept towards making sure the changes aren't overly burdensome, what changes there have been don't rise to that level in the estimation of far more people than are complaining.
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If you count that the Energy blaster can disorient with the punches, then we have to start arguing for the blaster to become a melee-oriented AT, and also a boost to those methods should definitely be enhanced on the characters. Also, immediately following implementation of a HP increase for minions, will be the proliferation of Energy/Energy blasters and possibly Ice/Ice.
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Gee, we Energy/Ice people get so little billing.
(And probably should consider the Ice/Energy folk too.)
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The AR and Fire builds will both be forgotten because the AR will never produce a viable character without enhancing the M30 and Buckshot powers, which are sorely lacking presently. The Fire will be forgotten entirely, because no one wants to go through "life" only half-way doing damage. In a solo fight, the development would be stifled prior to Hasten 6-slotted w/ SOs, since your alpha attack would result in all of the enemies returning fire on you, and your single-target attacks are fairly weak.
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As I noted earlier, Statesman's words on the matter are that he believes every AT should have the capablity of soloing. Predictions of Blaster nonviability are premature.
I'm curious where all the concern was for Ice and Electrical types in the days of the dominance of Fire and AR. I do not recall this board have the pages of venom that Update 2 has spawned in their regard when RSRobinson could post his screed about optimal power gaming and how you should avoid those types of blasters. Oh well, issues of the inherent fairness of the wheel turning, karma, and hypocrisy (not by you, but in general) aside, Fire and AR will retain their superior offensive abilities at the expense of not having superior defensive ones. That is called balance. But that they will not be able to solo is far from established. Again, instead of loading up on every primary and secondary power and fleshing out with Stamina and Hasten it will require either superior play, taking a chunk of power pool selections, or a combination of both to get by.
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Again, it is my opinion that blaster should be left alone, and I play defenders primarily, if you're asking.
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Blasters by and large have been left alone. An obviously broken power was fixed that affected a fraction of the Blaster population (unless you're going to claim that all Blasters were Devices Blasters). What is changing is the play environment. It is hard to imagine you primarily play Defenders and can't see the changes as generally being a benefit.
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Let me ask a couple of questions;
1. Is CoH a competition to see who can get to 50th level the fastest?
2. Is CoH a PvP system (presently, Hero vs. Hero)?
3. Does the blaster's exp/min rate affect other heroes?
4. Do blasters ONLY solo, leaving teams scrounging for damage dealers for TFs?
5. If the minion HP were raised, thereby reducing the effects of the blaster, would you prefer to have two scrappers or two blasters on your team for a TF? Consider the amount of defense and healing required to keep a 1/2 effective teamate alive, when they bring NOTHING else to the table besides the 1/2 damage they deal, and are constantly in need of attention/buffing/healing thereby hurting the rest of the team....I know, every blaster gets a pet medic
6. Would you be happier if we just eliminated the blaster AT?
7. If/When you play a blaster, would you be frustrated if every fight you had resulted in you being down to 0 endurance and 1/2 HP? Or, would you consider it a challange and run off to see if you could brawl the next mob into submission while you recover end/hp?
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(1) Depends on who you ask. I'm not playing to see how fast I can get to 50, others are. Regardless, if it isn't a competition, then why complain about changes to how long it takes for any AT to get there?
(2) Again, in the minds of some it is even if you can't zot another player. It doesn't require being able to negatively impact someone else for something to be a competition. A spelling bee is a competition after all.
(3) Directly? No. But what drives that xp/min has impacts on the game dynamic. Sorry, but despite your focus on portraying the issue as a bunch of soloing, grouping exists and there is the group dynamic to consider. Pairing Superman with Powerman and Iron Fist isn't going to result in Powerman and Iron Fist doing much or having much fun and making it so that all members of a group get to contribute IS important. Given that Blaster can continue to solo it is more important than enshrining being able to breeze through multiple high level foes.
(4) I can't imagine that Blasters only solo, and as noted above that brings into play the group dynamic. If you think that things would be better if Blasters only soloed so that group dynamics didn't enter play, that would be a one-sided consideration as then the group dynamic that presumes their pressence would also falter.
(5) My primary is a Defender, an AT whose primary abilities (excepting Dark Miasma) are shared with Controllers and whose secondary ability function is trumped by Blasters. Talk about "why would a group take" aren't going to fly with me because since the game has been released I've been in that position and still managed to find groups and level. To answer the question, what I want on a TF is competent players. I'll make do otherwise and you can take as evidence having worked halfway through a TF in a group that had come down to 2 Defenders and a Scrappper (me). A Blaster will generally operate very differently from a Scrapper (Blappers aside) and if that is the tool that is available I'll certainly try to make it work. But where the assertion comes from that Blasters on a TF would be 1/2 effective in the event of increased mob hps came from I don't know. The entire focus of complaint in this thread is on how Blasters solo. In a group with others to heal them, provide defenses, etc., what changes there have been in the game are a waterdrop in the ocean. And if mob hps go up, then fights will last longer and other ATs will get to do their jobs, as opposed to saying, "Run in there and bomb those for us again."
(6) Why would I want the Blaster AT eliminated? Given the time I've recently spent on (and all the countless hours spent on previous tries at) a Blaster, I'd be rather pissed.
(7) I have been playing up a Blaster on the recently meaner streets of Paragon and having a grand time of it. Yes, she's low level, but these are not the streets you remember from the first week of release. Mobs are considerably nastier than anything I faced with any of my early characters. Still, I'm working my way through them at what I consider to be a reasonable pace. And as to having every fight bring me down to zero endurance and half hp. . .been there, done that, survived it. . .remember that Defender I spoke of playing? Fact of the matter is that for as nasty as the streets of Steel Canyon are my Blaster is still mowing through them faster than my Defender did at the same level. Sorry, I have a hard time finding pity that things aren't even easier.
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I would focus on taking as much of those as you can get
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1. 24 powers; take into account travel and fitness (that's 5 minimum). 19 powers; We now have two pools to use, Stealth & Leadership.
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Stealth and Leadership being your choice. Fighting brings defenses at the cost of an extra power of quetionable merit, but at the benefit of Tough and Weave--probably no worse a selection than Stamina which forced you to take 2 powers that you probably would have lived without otherwise.
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Blasters receive the lowest bonus (does that mean its a penalty?) for Leadership...so, let's avoid that.
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Why? Because someone else has a bigger bonus? Is this where I get to ask like you did above how someone having more means that what you have isn't sufficient for you? Whoopee, Defenders might get 7.8% from it as opposed to 6.5% for a Blaster. Are you telling me not getting the extra 1.3% makes Manuevers a bad choice?
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Take CJ/SJ/Acrobatics instead....every blaster MUST become a super jumper to persue Acrobatics (Hover offers same def bonus 5-11% as CJ, but Acrobatics makes Jump line worth more).
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I'm not sure what you think the import of using the words 'every' and 'MUST' (capitalized) are, but the only Blasters that 'MUST' take Jumping are those that want Acrobatics. It is a choice. So 'every' is overstatement and the 'MUST' applies to anyone who wants the power. Is it a good path to go down? It certainly has its merits. Oh, and taking Combat Jumping hardly requires you to continue on to Super Jump, so your assertion that every Blaster would be a super jumper is not well founded.
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Four more powers for those? Leaves 14 powers. Should be plenty, right? Why not just make a Power Pool AT? EVERY blaster will be REQUIRED to use 10 power pool selections just to be viable for developing, and most of those will not be able to take early in the game to even develop. So, lets all go out and make Super-Jumper blasters that can't run down the street at 10th level without dying.....
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Is this some sort of slippery slope argument or an attempt at reductio ad absurdum, or some ******* child of both? You leap from a thinly established need to take 10 powers for defense to suddenly every power choice being required in the power pool. If you are going to go unhinged it strikes me as a shame as otherwise you seemed faily reasonable until that point.
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2. Blasters focusing on defense......hmmm, seems a curious way to build.
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Focusing? Try the word 'Incorporating' instead.
Accepting for the moment that Stamina is more beneficial to have than anything you could replace it and the Fitness pool with, that is one power pool choice made and 3 powers spent. Hasten is frankly overrated by many, but rather than rehash that argument let's consider why you'd take it. The reasons that I'm aware of are having (a) few attacks, (b) long recycle time powers, and/or (c) powers of sufficiently long recycle time that lowering that time is desirable but for which slotting other attributes is preferable all in sufficient quanitity as to warrant expending a power slot and typically 6 enhancement slots. Short of going whole hog on power pool powers it is hard to see how (a) would ever apply. As to (c) there are the level 32 powers and that is about it. Category (b) seems a bit vacant. A different Fire Blaster in my SG than the one I mentioned before doesn't have Hasten and she (both are female characters, one played by a woman) does quite fine without it. So Hasten isn't automatically on the table. Is that to say you shouldn't take it? No. Do what floats your boat, just understand the trade offs--you can go for more offense or defense or a mix of both, or a lack of either. Don't want to jump but fly instead? Hover offers as much +Def as Combat Jumping and you were obviously going to take it over Air Superiority in getting to Flight. So Super Speed, Flight, and Super Jump are all on the table. Teleport is a weak choice in terms of defense, but that's not so bad given it can take you right out of combat in the blink of an eye without the mob being in range to even attempt ranged attacks as you flee.
Taking just Stealth and Hover and fully slotting them provides +27.5% Def. Or you could go with Stealth and Combat Jumping for the same, optimize your selection for travel as Super Jump and as a benefit only have to take one more power to pick up Acrobatics (though frankly I find the power to be lackluster). Going up Leaderhip has its benefits too, especially depending on what type of Blaster you are. Manuevers + Stealth is +30.25% Def and puts you one step to Tactics. Fully slotted Tactics is a +21% chance to hit. Suppose you are an Assault Rifle Blaster. Your first five powers have +5% Accuracy inherently. So you're at 26%. So in echange for 7% accuracy versus where any other Blaster would be with one Accuracy SO applied, you can add 33% base damage be replaching that with a Damage SO, and still trump them in accuracy and damage with the last three power choices (but boy, you'd better take Stamina). Toss in the impact of Burst lowering Defense and you might make back all your ground for having dropped the Accuracy SO if you lead with Burst on a target. Combine with Aim and Build Up and the potential accuracy hit practically disappears into the ether. While AR/Dev is rather obvious, consider an AR/Ice combo through 40th level:
Archetype: Blaster
Primary Powers - Ranged : Assault Rifle
Secondary Powers - Support : Ice Manipulation
Slot[01] Level 1 (Starting Primary) : Burst /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[02] Level 1 (Starting Secondary) : Chilblain /Acc
Slot[03] Level 2 : Slug /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[04] Level 4 : Buckshot /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[05] Level 6 : Stealth /DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[06] Level 8 : Hasten /Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg,Rchg
Slot[07] Level 10 : Chilling Embrace /EndRdx
Slot[08] Level 12 : Sniper Rifle /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[09] Level 14 : Swift /Run
Slot[10] Level 16 : Super Speed /Run
Slot[11] Level 18 : Health /Heal
Slot[12] Level 20 : Stamina /EndRec,EndRec,EndRec
Slot[13] Level 22 : Build Up /HitBuf
Slot[14] Level 24 : Flamethrower /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[15] Level 26 : Ice Patch /Rchg
Slot[16] Level 28 : Shiver /Slow
Slot[17] Level 30 : Ignite /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[18] Level 32 : Full Auto /Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg,Dmg
Slot[19] Level 35 : Maneuvers /DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf,DefBuf
Slot[20] Level 38 : Tactics /HitBuf,HitBuf,HitBuf,HitBuf,HitBuf,HitBuf
Defensive Capabilities: Knockback, Knockdown, Slow, Stealth, +29% Defensive Modifier.
Travel: Superspeed
Hasten: Check
Stamina: Check
Powers Consumed Outside Primary/Secondary: 8
That's a quite one-off that hasnt' had any real thought put into it and there may be arguments for taking powers at different levels or taking other choices, but the principle is there: Defense has been considered and worked in as opposed to being left out. Slow opponents who fall down when they get close are a good thing. Every wasted second as they creep along and struggle to stand up benefits you. And on top of that you've also worked down how often they actually do hit you.
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/me goes back to playing my defender again.....but starts eyeing that fire Tank.....
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A choice, but Blasters have become interesting to me.
Since you editted your post, I'll add the following:
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This would assume that you had both defensive AND offensive powers. The blaster doesn't. If the blaster HAS TO HAVE defensive powers to stay alive, then it needs to be in the secondary....that is all I have to say.
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Scrappers often go outside their defensive sets for defensive powers. Certainly Defenders are talking about it. Heck, there is already an established history of Blasters doing so. But as to having to, think of it more as their primary and secondary powers being given over to defining powers than is the case for other ATs. See, a benefit that only Blasters have.
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Cut and paste failed, I will re write my response
Interesting post Moridin_
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You know it is just pointless in trying to explain something to someone who doesn't understand.
So your methos is I need to start a new blaster build...no thanks I shouldn't have to.
Pwer pools should not be required to a build, for AR/DEV and many other you need hasten 6 slotted, and stamina 6 slotted which required 2 prereqs. It is total BS that every build I have needs those 2 powers to be effective so 10 enhancement slots and 4 powers.
It's BS and you know it, when greens and blues give me problems now, I do missions that means alot of freakshows for me. I get screwed.
here is my build I am 28th lvl
1. slug, web grenade
2. burst
4. caltrops
6. hurdle
8. hasten
10. targeting drone
12. sniper rifle
14. super speed
16. health
18. flame thrower
20. stamina
22. cloaking device
24. hover
26. fly
28. trip mine
30. smoke grenade
32. full auto
35. time bomb
38.
there is not a single power there I do not use in every single battle. Still I get face planted by blues and whites, why you ask?
my attack animations are too long, the mobs i have to fight for missions are highly resistant to lethal and smashing, and I have no way to mitgate that much damage. SG need to be twice as effective as it is now. Why not use weeb grenade and caltrops you ask well LT's can fly over them and often grenade just slows them a bit.
I play an hour a night, most of that time is solo in a mission and even there my effectiveness kinda suck, I refuse to build another character as my main because well, i shouldn't have to. It's a damn super hero game, funny doesn't feel like one.
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Fact is that Statesman has stated he believes all ATs should be able to solo, even if they do not solo equally as well. It is hard to imagine that translates to Blasters being at the end of the list let alone unable to do so.
As to fairness, it is wholely fair to balance the game for the enjoyment of all over allowing some to have a cakewalk, and there is no way around that.
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The problem is that if blasters are not near the top of the list for solo play the AT is hurting badly because blasters are at the bottom of the list for the rate at which they advance while teamed. It does not help to have people want to team with you if you do not gain the same benefits as they do from the relationship. Team friendly cant just mean everyone benefits but you.
On top of that offensively built defenders can fill a blasters team role better then a blaster, the only advantage a blaster has is that the team knows what they are getting when the sign up a blaster while a defender is somewhat of a question mark.
If blasters are not the best choice for their role on a team, typically receive fewer benefits then everyone else on said team and dont solo well what is the point in playing one?
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You know it is just pointless in trying to explain something to someone who doesn't understand.
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Which is why I considered not replying to you. But hope springs eternal.
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So your methos is I need to start a new blaster build...no thanks I shouldn't have to.
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I shouldn't have to get up in the morning and go to a thankless job. I do, I like eating.
As to starting a new Blaster build, you do realize they put in respec trials in the Update? I've got several SG members who've already done one, and my Controller is going to get a touch up once I get him to 24th.
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there is not a single power there I do not use in every single battle. Still I get face planted by blues and whites, why you ask?
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No, I didn't. So you use every power. . .and? If you're getting pasted then those powers aren't doing the trick, are they? Perhaps you should be using other powers, huh?
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I play an hour a night, most of that time is solo in a mission and even there my effectiveness kinda suck, I refuse to build another character as my main because well, i shouldn't have to.
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*Shrug* Adapt or be miserable, that is your choice.
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But erratic I thought the point of this game was to make a build and not be useless, also respec doesn't let you change AT's or your primary or secondary power.
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I shouldn't have to get up in the morning and go to a thankless job. I do, I like eating.
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that is work..this is a game, that you are a super hero in see the difference.
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Hmmm. . . Punisher.
RI is a 30% To-Hit debuff from what I hear. Each SO brings that up by 10% (33% of 30 is 10%), so I run at either 60% or 70% typically depending on how I've most recently slotted it. My Defender has no other +Def abilities. At 2 levels above me the power should be 80% effective, or a 48-56% To-Hit Debuff. From geko's comments on SG that means it is cutting their basic chance to hit in half.
Gotta be forgetting something as that isn't enough to allow anyone to stand in front of a Tank Smasher, let alone a Paragon Protectore, and I've done that too at +2 levels.
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SG was reported as a 50% acc debuff prior to the fix. Since most blasters didnt slot it heavily your RI is providing you more defense then SG blasters were getting. On top of this you probably have an always on status protection from accelerate metabolism, have higher damage attacks then most single target blasters, and the elec recharge times are also nicely countered by AM as is the higher end requirements.
Of course you dont see a problem with status effects, you are more resistant to them then blasters ever were and all you had to sacrifice for them was a little bit of damage output, and maybe not even that
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Fact is that Statesman has stated he believes all ATs should be able to solo, even if they do not solo equally as well. It is hard to imagine that translates to Blasters being at the end of the list let alone unable to do so.
As to fairness, it is wholely fair to balance the game for the enjoyment of all over allowing some to have a cakewalk, and there is no way around that.
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The problem is that if blasters are not near the top of the list for solo play the AT is hurting badly because blasters are at the bottom of the list for the rate at which they advance while teamed.
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While teamed everyone advances at the same rate, you all share the same incoming xp.
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It does not help to have people “want to team” with you if you do not gain the same benefits as they do from the relationship. “Team friendly” can’t just mean everyone benefits but you.
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What benefits are Blasters losing out on in a team?
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On top of that offensively built defenders can fill a blasters team role better then a blaster, the only advantage a blaster has is that the team knows what they are getting when the sign up a blaster while a defender is somewhat of a question mark.
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*FAINT*
You're suggesting a Defender can fill the shoes of a Blaster?
When I started my offensively built Defender (and it is one of the more offensive builds out there) I was flatly told I was insane by other Defenders and Blasters giggled. In point of fact, while I deal nice damage I'm not delusional about which AT deals more and I doubt anyone else is confused on the matter. If every other aspect necessary for a team is taken care of and the choice comes down to a Defender or Blaster solely for damage, you'd be insane not to take the Blaster. Of course, thankfully it rarely comes down that narrowly and there are generally reasons to take either.
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If blasters are not the best choice for their role on a team, typically receive fewer benefits then everyone else on said team and don’t solo well what is the point in playing one?
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You're going to have to explain your "receive fewer benefits" bit.
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But erratic I thought the point of this game was to make a build and not be useless, also respec doesn't let you change AT's or your primary or secondary power.
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The point of the game is up to each player to determine for himself. For me its to have fun between rounds of sleeping and going to work.
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I shouldn't have to get up in the morning and go to a thankless job. I do, I like eating.
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that is work..this is a game, that you are a super hero in see the difference.
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Misses the point that "should" is rather meaningless in life, and the game exists within that same, unfair things called life. Sorry Crypic and NCSoft can't just cater to you. . .in a perfect world we'd each have the game we personally want. But this world ain't the perfect one. So notions of 'should' are out the window.
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Hmmm. . . Punisher.
RI is a 30% To-Hit debuff from what I hear. Each SO brings that up by 10% (33% of 30 is 10%), so I run at either 60% or 70% typically depending on how I've most recently slotted it. My Defender has no other +Def abilities. At 2 levels above me the power should be 80% effective, or a 48-56% To-Hit Debuff. From geko's comments on SG that means it is cutting their basic chance to hit in half.
Gotta be forgetting something as that isn't enough to allow anyone to stand in front of a Tank Smasher, let alone a Paragon Protectore, and I've done that too at +2 levels.
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SG was reported as a 50% acc debuff prior to the fix. Since most blasters didn’t slot it heavily your RI is providing you more defense then SG blasters were getting.
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(1) It was repored by the Devs to be 100%
(2) Apparently it was stackable and most Blasters believed it was as they'd lob a few then solo things like Dr. Vahzilok, something no Defender has ever done at levels appropriate for taking the mission. It is disingenuous to compare RI, which can't be stacked and which in any case provided less debuff, to SG in its broken state--SG was completely superior.
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On top of this you probably have an always on status protection from accelerate metabolism, have higher damage attacks then most single target blasters, and the elec recharge times are also nicely countered by AM as is the higher end requirements.
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That isn't status protection in the sense you're likely thinking about. It doesn't make the effect any less likely to take hold, it reduces the duration, but even a second of duration turns off toggles and I can promise you its never reduced a hold or sleep to a second. Sorry, the difference between my Defender (and mind you that is just Radiation Emissions--not all Defenders get Accelerate Metabolism) and a Blaster of any stripe is how long I'll be under the status effect assuming I live. That's not a really significant difference and doesn't compare to, say. . .they damage difference between the two ATs.
Of course you don’t see a problem with status effects, you are more resistant to them then blasters ever were and all you had to sacrifice for them was a little bit of damage output, and maybe not even that
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Karass you're waisting your time.
Erratic thinks that having to scrap a build you worked on for hours over months is a fair and equitible solution. When every other AT get's fixes to round out their AT's.
Dark Defenders didn't have to rebuild. Dark Miasma got buffed.
In fact all Defender blasts got an endurance reduction.
Super Strenght tankers don't have to rebuild super strenght got buffed. All tanker attacks got endurance reductions, and more tanker damage is coming down the pipe. Many tanker primaries are getting lots of attention from the DEVs.....
Super reflexes, Dark Armor, Katanna, Martial arts? all got buffs or have them in the works.
Mind controllers also got buffed. and pets are deadilier than ever.
All of these changes came about because players told the devs that certain things were defective. They kept plugging away. They didn't drop their toons and start over. And I'll be damned if we should have to. If the devs are dead set on nerfing my damage I want the defensive tools to be viable. And I don't want to have to take very defensive pool out there to get it. Pools are not defining powers. They are powers that help us round out game play. I have hover, stealth and hasten. my travel powers are super speed and flight. I'm not dropping either. My defense remains my offense. That is what was intended.
As someone stated earlier, blasters should have a control primary as there secondary (at 75% effectiveness as all others are), that would be fair and equitable and make sense with every other AT.
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1. 24 powers; take into account travel and fitness (that's 5 minimum). 19 powers; We now have two pools to use, Stealth & Leadership. Blasters receive the lowest bonus (does that mean its a penalty?) for Leadership...so, let's avoid that. Take CJ/SJ/Acrobatics instead....every blaster MUST become a super jumper to persue Acrobatics (Hover offers same def bonus 5-11% as CJ, but Acrobatics makes Jump line worth more). So, that 6 powers, leaving 18. Take Stealth, Fighting or Leadership. Four more powers for those? Leaves 14 powers. Should be plenty, right? Why not just make a Power Pool AT? EVERY blaster will be REQUIRED to use 10 power pool selections just to be viable for developing, and most of those will not be able to take early in the game to even develop. So, lets all go out and make Super-Jumper blasters that can't run down the street at 10th level without dying.....
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Geez. Cry me a river. You realize that most well built scrappers that are not INV take Fitness for Stamina, get Hasten, and also take the fighting line to suppliment their defenses. Not only that, but our secondaries are required, they're not just a few ultility or flavor powers. If you're not DM, you're probably going to get all 9 powers from SR, you'll want a lot of DA's powers if you have that... You see where this is going? This is why most uber scrapper builds only have 4-5 attacks at most. At lot have four, and buildup. Tankers have it bad to, they need Stamina like everyone else, probably would like Hasten. Oh, and more than likely Provoke should show up in there. Wow, three PP's down. They NEED to dip into PP's to do their job.
I posted this earlier, but you may have missed it.
Well, lets take a defensive oriented non-dev blaster with something more reasonable.
Concealment
Fitness
Fighting
Leaping (if you have Fire as your second you could probably go with flight and hover instead, but I considered Acrobatics as a possible choice for some who don't have burn.)
9 powers, including the travel power and the very required Stamina. You could make it 10 if you REALLY wanted Acrobatics.
Now of those 9 you should probably spend 23 slots. This includes stamina. So for 18 slots you're getting 20% res + 38.75 Def. Enough to reduce an even con to roughly an 11% chance to hit you. Not bad for having no defenses of your own besides massive amounts of kill potential. Obviously there ARE a lot of Devs running around. So drop Stealth, take the lovely Hasten and now for an extra five slots you're in perma-hasten, increasing offensive power (we know what that does for defense) and granting an extra 5% def. Even minions are at 6% to hit you. Nearly the cap. Now add Smoke grenade, no slots in it at all... You just hit the cap, and since it's not a reductive debuff, it's even more effective against higher cons.
You get, what 67 extra slots by 50? You could just about 6 slot ALL of the attacks. Which, who needs to, so it opens up those slots for other powers in your secondary or pools. Now if you're willing to team, you don't even need to slot that heavy in a lot of these things.
But yeah, go ahead and pop that luck, scrappers do it ALL the time too. And for the 30 seconds that it lasts, after you tossed a single slotted SG, you just capped DEF against +3 minions. Or you nearly did without it.
I would also amend, that if you've got all 9 attacks from your main, you don't really need Hasten. It might be nice, but you could give it up and put some other PP or power in it's place.
God you would laugh/cry if you knew all the crap Dark Armor has to do to even survive these days.
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2. Blasters focusing on defense......hmmm, seems a curious way to build.
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ANY character that wishes to solo at their most effective must have defensive capabilities. Don't feel like putting in the powers, group. Or you could probably get by with much less if you simply adjusted what you went up against.
Note: Sorta off topic, so sory in advance.
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I guess what eats me is a total lack of response concerning blasters.
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Ok, not picking on the above poster... but...
Why do people keep posting and starting new threads crying about BLASTERS ?
Is the issue simply about soloing Smoke Grenade blasters don't want to change the they way they were playing? There have been plenty of */Dev blaster that have posted that they are still soloing fine (maybe not mowing down 100's of purples at a time... but...)
I know, as an Ice/Elec blaster that nothing has changed for me. I've seen lots of other blasters saying they have no problems, it appears to me that there isn't really a blaster problem, but simply a handful of SG blasters running to the boards and posting and crossposting over and over again.
I think it comes down to this: there is a group of forum posters that are upset about the "fix/nerf" of SG. So, they come here and make these broad/general posts of doom and gloom on various sections of these forums, and many fail to point out that their only real gripe is that SG got nerfed. They want to stir up a big poo-storm and they can't if they simply say "I quit because SG got nerfed"... they NEED more drama: "OMG blasters can no longer solo!"
There you hit on it perfectly fei.....
Your secondary is something you NEED to survive.
Our secondaries don't help us survive in the same sense. they help us survive by doing more damage. So compairing the two is apples and oranges.
Our Primary is our defense. God like damage.
And you almost sound like blasters that want to be effective don't already have to arrange our pools well. Like we can just willy nilly take any pool we want....
Stamina..... a must for ANY build.
Hasten.....allows for faster cycling of attacks. which equates to an even chance to take down bigger enemies..
Concealment......to lower aggro response when pulling enemies from large crowds and to help us avoid death from rounding corners to find dangerous enemies right around them.
Hover... to keep us out of melee range.
Superspeed for the stack invis with concealment... and a quick get away.
Taking leaping, leadership, or fighting would make me loose those benefits so in the end everything would balance out the same damn way. A highly offensive build with low defense and sub par damage mitagation.
We shouldn't have to design our builds around pools. Pools should accentuate our builds.
Last Nine more of an AR/DEV problem really.
Im going to reserve judgement on that at least until i find out some specifics on what these changes will be if any.