lionheart_fr

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Clues seem to be team unfriendly: they are readable by the clicker, but do not appear for anyone else as far as I know.

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Everyone can read the clues, they just don't get the "Clue Found" pop-up that the team leader gets.

How important is the enemy description text? One or two without descriptions is forgivable, but if I see a big custom group numbering close to a dozen critters or more and not a single one has a description then I'll take off a star as I won't consider the arc to be finished.

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I find that when creating custom characters, I like to give significant characters background info.

However, all the trooper, thug, minion types I don't necessarily give color text to. Why? How many ways can you say "this is a minion" and make it sound interesting? Some I do, because there's something in their purpose that is beyond simple "minionosity" (perhaps advanced tech to be explained), but in other cases it would be just another way of saying "this is an expendable helping the main baddies do their thing."

About the only text I have not read much is the critter info; I'm too busy fighting them to read them. I do go back and read ALL of the popup dialogue that I don't have time to read during the fight. Some authors are really creative.

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We had a publishing blackout during the reactivation that prevented us from putting new code up onto the live servers.

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Publishing blackouts (intentional) are standard practice for MMOs at given times. This is nothing new, unusual, or unexpected.

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Once you can cherry pick custom critter powers, it shouldn't be a problem. Until then, watch out for custom foes.

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You won't be able to cherry pick powers. The custom critters will come with a standard set of powers the devs pick and then we can "add" more powers to them. Obviously since the custom critters are already overpowered this change is not helpful to balancing things out the way they need to be.

I don't think this is helpful in any way to MA missions using "customs" as they are just too hard to "balance" when they come out the shoot already way more powerful than the PvE critters and that is not something that is hard to figure out.

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Agreed. Hopefully this is being looked at. It's great that we want MA primarily for developing new stories/content, but that can be nullified by making them unplayable for story-focused players.

Custom mobs are a key component to writing fun stories; they just need to be able to be toned down a bit to feel more like the standard NPCs. It's got to be a difficult balancing act, considering what the devs would like to have in the MA and what they would like to keep out.

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Here's what I think based on Posi's statement:

None of the things mentioned in the OP are abuse, not even when used all at once. Posi said they would be rolling back rewards achieved through exploits, and none of those things are exploits. If there's a critter whose XP is out of whack, like the comm officers were, or that doesn't fight back, like the Snake Eggs, then those are exploits. If someone finds some map oddity that lets them kill things without getting hit, that'd be an exploit. Nothing you describe is like that. Nothing you described could take you from 1 - 50 in 3 hours, or anything approaching that.

Posi's statement did not imply that he was targetting farmers or PLers - only those that use exploits to rocket through levels. Keep farming and PLing if you want, just don't use exploits.

Yes, we should have a clearer definition of what an exploit is.

We'll see if I'm wrong.

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That is exactly the way it read to me as well.

As to all Boss mission specifically: I recall in early discussions that that was actually an example given by the devs in answer to a question. If the map has 25 points to place them, you can have 25 bosses. That's not an exploit.

If the risk:reward is reasonable, I wouldn't worry about how you set up and/or play MA content. The real exploits are pretty obvious.

"Normal" farming is okay; exploiting for insane gains is not.

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I was using a variant of an tech map on one of my arcs - gone. They really need to just fix the maps, not yank them.

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Perhaps they have to yank them to fix them, then return them at a later date. I know in beta there were several pulled from the list because they had bugs in MA, but it sounded like the intention was to reintroduce them later when things were ironed out.

I don't know if any have been reintroduced or not, but that doesn't mean they won't be.

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However, if the heavy-handed threats made by Positron are carried out (direct banning of farming, retroactive punishment, etc.), I assure you that you'll find no further word from me.

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Positron did not threaten direct banning of farming. He threatened direct banning of "extreme" abuses of the system. There's a difference. That's the point that most people with a negative reaction to his post seem to be missing. He specified the most extreme cases, not farming in general.

If he hadn't brought up removing characters that had been powerleveled with extreme speed, there probably would not be nearly the uproar we're seeing here.

But if you read closely, it sounds like they're only going after the *most* abusive examples. And they should -- quickly and aggressively.

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Devs said they want folks to be able to use the AE from lvl 1.

/unsigned for that reason alone.

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We have a winner.

Having the AE buildings in starter zones -- for those of us who are NOT farmers (not considering the farmers for the moment) -- makes perfect sense.

I now have some alts who will only be used in MA missions from 1-50. Others will never see the inside of the AE building. Others will do a blend.

Variety is good.

(side note: I'd definitely love to get MA arc access from the SG base too; however, that doesn't preclude having AE buildings in starter zones. New players who aren't in SGs wouldn't get access.)

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And here I am with my little story arc that chances are no one will play because all anyone does is farm. Once upon a time I was so jazzed about I14. Now I have no inspiration to write any more arcs because I don't see the point when like, 10 people total will play them. Maybe.

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I guess it depends on why you post your arc. We all know up front that there will be thousands of arcs to compete against.

Do you enjoy your arcs? Do your family/friends enjoy them? To me, that's the big thing. I will never have a HoF arc because mine will be published, unpublished, and republished as we want to play them.

One of the best written arcs I've played yet (some folks will hate the Oranbega maps, but the story is good) has only been played by a few people -- our family.

It's available to everyone; if they find it and enjoy it, that's fantastic. But not necessary for the arc to be "successful." It already is. We like it.

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The "popular" farms may not be the "best" farms. They are probably the easiest farms to make and run, and some of them probably were, in fact, the best bang for your buck (Rikti Doll and MEOW). It is entirely possible that datamining has showed that there are a number of farmers performing well enough above the curve using entirely custom mobs. The reason you haven't heard of these farms could be because the farmer who made them is smart enough to not invite random people to his farms, not broadcast his farm across Atlas Park for all to see, and not advertise his arcs here on the Forum. This could be the results of the "extensive datamining tools" that the Devs have claimed to have.

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But farms are not the main issue the people in this thread are concerned about. It's about taking critters that are already tougher than standard mobs and making them even tougher. I like creating and fighting custom critters, but going in and just getting slaughtered is no fun at all.

We are supposed to be able to level from 1-50 through the MA -- and my family as created a few characters with which we plan to do just that. If they make the custom critters even harder, then low level characters may not be able to handle it.

Please don't hammer the whole playerbase just to nerf the farmers. We don't want to be collateral damage in the battle against farms.

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Critters becoming more powerful is the point.

It is evident that due to rampant farming, the Custom Critter minimum performance needs to be higher than it started as.

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I'm not sure I get this comment. Custom critters hit *much* harder than the standard NPCs. The problem many of us have had since beta is creating custom enemies that don't wipe us out quickly.

Most of the "farms" I've seen consist of hand-picked standard critters (Rikti, Freaks, etc.), not customs.

By and large, custom critters are tougher right now. If you want to keep a mission easier while still fighting custom bosses, load up with standard NPCs and add your own end boss.

Custom critters do not need to be made tougher, just better balanced.

My wife and I must be far more selective in our MA missions, because we've play several hours on multiple characters and have not leveled quickly.

We played four hours (in two tough mission arcs, duo on herioc) and only gained just under two levels (went from early 20 to almost 22).

Perhaps if we had been playing a full team on a higher difficulty we would have leveled faster. But playing small group on heroic, I'm not seeing much difference at all in XP gain.

Our experience with MA so far is playing characters ranging from 1-32, on heroic with groups ranging from 1-4 players.

This isn't a problem, because we're not concerned with leveling quickly; we just want to play and have fun.

Personally, if I can avoid it, I don't play missions with Vahz. It's not a matter of toughness, it's a matter of despising anything Zombie related and anything that involves enemies puking at me.

The Oranbega maps I like. They have character. And the fact that you have to *explore* them. I realize so many players like to just run in, kill things, and run out, but I like to explore and experience the story.

Kill All missions on those maps are a no-no though. I understand that one completely. But having to actually search for the person I'm supposed to rescue (or whatever the goal may be) is part of the fun for me. It adds to the adventure.

This is an excellent idea!

I already plan on using the SG base to set up MA arcs; it just means meeting at the base, then heading over to the MA building afterward.

It would be more fun to enable the SG computer to handle it -- in the way you suggest. Not private missions, but pulling from the missions everyone has access to. As noted, this would help avoid "stealth" inappropriate missions.

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the mission places the objectives in the order that they are in the mission file.

if you want to have him spawn in the back, make that the first or second objective in your mission.

You can do this by opening up the .arc file - which is just a text file, and cutting and pasting it earlier in the mission.

It should be in c:/program files/city of heroes/missions

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This. From reading helpful hints on the forums, I always place my end Boss first when creating objectives (regardless of where I want the Boss to spawn) so that it will appear in the right location.

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Defeat All is simply not fun, for me. Fighting thirty, forty times the exact same mob group with the chance that one of them will be stuck in a wall or hidden behind a crate... No thanks, I'll pass.

If there was a "Defeat Most" objective, it wouldn't be so bad, but that brings me to my next point (well, opinion) :

Defeat All is immersion breaking in most situations, at least for my characters. It doesn't make sense to waste their time hunting down every joe-shmuck. Given the choice between stopping ten different mob leaders and one leader and his one hundred minions, my heroes would do the former ; my villains simply wouldn't care about the canon fodder getting away.

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The idea of it being immersion-breaking never occurred to me. I'd think it was just the opposite; if I left a bunch of hoods running free in a building full of innocents, I wouldn't be much of a hero. It just makes sense to take them all down to protect the innocent.

However, I do agree with the technical limitations (i.e., critters stuck where you can't get them) and the misuse of defeat all on large or complex maps that turns finding the last critters into a chore instead of an adventure.

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there are too many people driving those automobiles and not enough people in horse drawn buggies! the end is near.....please get rid of those roads so i can find people who want to ride along in my buggy with me

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Farming is not the real issue in these threads; the real issue is PUGs. Some people are having more trouble finding full groups than they did pre-MA.

Farming becomes the excuse for griping about the success of MA making it more difficult to find non-MA teams.

Also a lack of patience in waiting for the "newness" factor to slow down. Then people will filter back into the "real" CoH world. Better balance will come with time.

Side note: I've seen the quote in your signature attributed to Henry Ford.

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oh really tell that to 1st the gm and then the dev that told me they are, maybe you should get your information together before you post? and according to the gm and dev i talked to, get ready for a patch to get rid of fams... have fun with your disillusions. and yes you cannot get teams very well at all that arent ae related and it dont take a rocket scientist to read the chat and see that 90%+ is all farm related missions, if you all dont see it maybe you have farm missions and/or are just blind to it?

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I'm sorry, but the point you're missing is this: Farmers farm, non-farmers don't.

The MA did not suddenly turn everybody into farmers. The people farming MA used to be farming Sewers or PI or somewhere else. Now they farm MA too.

Those of us who are not farmers have not started farming in MA. No, we are writing and playing arcs that are often more challenging than the some of the standard content, in part because custom critters hit harder than normal NPCs. We enjoy the creative side.

I've only played in one farming mission since MA came out -- because I didn't know it was a farm until I started it. I low-starred it too.

Just because "90%" (made up number) of the chat you see is farm-related does not in any way equate to most of the MA missions being farms. Farmers advertise for farms; players play.

It may be true that you're having more trouble finding teams since MA came out. A lot of people (including myself) are spending time in the MA creating their own content and playing friends' creative (non-farm) content -- because it's fun.

Remember: MA is new. This is bound to go on for a few weeks, then the newness will wear off and things will balance out a bit. Be patient.

However, assuming that MA is just or even mostly a farming tool is a fallacy not supported by facts.

I get plenty of invites for both MA and regular missions -- on lightly populated servers, no less.

Please don't ruin the MA for those of us who use it the way it's intended. It's fine the way it is.

My guess for the unfinished, yet published, arcs is that they want to earn tickets while testing -- perhaps to unlock more content for other arcs.

Me, I play other people's arcs (focusing on unrated arcs, I might add) to earn tickets to unlock more content.

Side note on missions with little text: I've actually thought about that for SG missions. The briefing will come at the SG base for RP fun. But those arcs will have limited lives in the published arena -- or may only be played in test mode.

But that might be part of what we're seeing; people making arcs that they want to play themselves, but don't feel the need to flesh out the story because they know it already and the arcs are temporary.

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I dont mind the map per-se, but I am seeing it being used a whole lot. Overexposure to the mpa is the issue.

The other one I see a lot of is the ruined AP, which has the double whammy of not having a functioning mini-map. Its my own over exposure to that map which has left me in a quandry, of using it in one of my own arcs. Its 'right' for story reasons, but I dont want folks to come in see the map, see the foes and quit with a 1 star.

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Which is making me rethink a mission concept (my first idea, actually). I was going to open with intercepting a shipment of military grade explosives and end with ruined AP (even had a good narrative to go with it). Agh!

But after playing through several missions using the cargo ship -- and now seeing your comments about ruined AP -- maybe I just need to scrap that storyline or drastically revamp it.

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I do the 19-24 range usually since all my characters are in that range. (I don't even know what EB's and AV's are).

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An EB is an Elite Boss, which is tougher than a standard boss. Some characters can solo them, some cannot (depending on level and powers available).

An AV is an Arch Villain, which is intended for teams to battle; usually cannot be soloed.

When playing on Heroic solo or with a small group, AVs scale down to EBs and EBs scale down to Lieutenants (why they don't scale to normal Boss instead is a mystery).

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In the current version of the MA, custom Bosses *and* custom Elite Bosses will downscale to LTs if you play on heroic (custom AVs will downscale to EBs). This is different from the normal PvE game where Bosses will downscale to Lts, but EBs will generally stick to being EBs. Personally, I think they should have downscaled to Bosses not LTs, but this is an issue the devs have been wrestling with all beta long: custom critters just tend to be vastly stronger than normal PvE critters, and missions that the MA authors make that seem perfectly reasonable to them are often coming up practically impossible to defeat for many players due to skill, archetype, or build.

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This is very good thinking on the devs part (whether they scale to LTs or bosses).

If we truly want an enemy to be nothing less than an EB, we can make the AVs. Otherwise, having it scale down for solo/small group is a good thing.

This is the first time I've toyed with the idea of setting up the test server; I usually wait until it goes live to experience new issues. But I *really* want to get my hands on the MA.

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Here's my little beef about this system (from the Blue side perspective). I don't really care for the "entertainment" or Holo-deck explanation for this tool. If I'm role playing, would a hero actually go to a store and make a "simulated" game for other heroes to play? This doesn't seem to really fit into the general theme of the game-- fighting bad guys-- not simulated bad guys.

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When I'm roleplaying, everything I do is a "real" mission; the holodeck notion is the official in-game explanation, but I'll simply ignore that. Going down to the building to launch the mission won't ruin my immersion, because I won't let it.

Basically, I chalk the AE entrance as a necessary game mechanic that gives me access to content I want to explore. Once I'm in the mission, the AE notion is out the window.

This is not a knock on the way the system is designed; I fully understand the reasoning behind it and support it. But it won't impact my ability to roleplay the missions in the least.

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What if the rating system rated by mission, with the combined mission total constituting the arc rating?

Or perhaps the arc rating would only be available to those who finished the arc; if players didn't finish the arc, they could only leave ratings for the mission they started/played?

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The problem with this is... when I'm looking for an arc to play, what the heck do I care that the 3rd mission is a 5-star awestravaganza and the others are merely 3-star. That's too much information for the end user. And if you're just averaging it out, how is that different from weighting the rating by the number of missions completed?

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Which is why I included the second option; that is, the only way to rate an arc is to complete it.

Mission ratings would be for those who don't play the entire arc and should not count against the rating on the arc itself. But it would indicate that players did not finish the arc.

Or maybe ratings could simply be flagged "arc completed/not completed" to accomplish the same thing.

I'll admit, it doesn't really matter much to me. I hope people enjoy the arcs I make, but I'm not concerned about getting top ratings, just having fun.

The questions raised about ratings just got my tiny mind buzzing a little and I thought I'd toss the idea out there.

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However, if you drop midway through the first mission of a four mission arc, rendering your judgment based on that first mission... that doesn't change the fact that you haven't seen any of missions 2, 3 and 4.

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What if the rating system rated by mission, with the combined mission total constituting the arc rating?

Or perhaps the arc rating would only be available to those who finished the arc; if players didn't finish the arc, they could only leave ratings for the mission they started/played?