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Nope, still haven't reworked it. Not sure I've even played it since I17. Been messing around with my Martial Arts/Fire Scrapper and my Dark Melee/Invuln Brute. Also not playing that much recently.
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Quote:I don't know. Have at it. A Fire/Shield Brute IO'd to the teeth should have great survivability and incredible sustained damage output. Make all Scrappers look feeble? Not exactly. Most of them? Probably. And a Fire/Shield Scrapper IO'd to the teeth will also make most Scrappers look feeble. Strangly enough, people continue to play other Scrappers. What's wrong with everyone? Can't they see that everything else is obviously inferior?A fire brute does fifteen percent more damage than a scrapper. It's right in the first freakin' post of this thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=132894
Fifteen percent! Okay, I don't care how IO'd out your scrapper is. Brutes can get IO's too.
Why would I NOT make a fire brute, IO it up, and make all scrappers look feeble?
Overly simplistic analysis is overly simplistic.
Will there be some migration to some of the higher powered Brute combinations? Of course. Will people stop playing anything BUT high-powered Brute sets? Uh... no. People will continue to play a great variety of archetypes and primaries and secondaries. -
I'd say it's not as strong as it could be with more defense, but it's not weak either. Looks like it could be fun to play. I'm worried about your endurance, though. Haven't done any calculations, but it looks unsustainable to me. Might be enough for normal play, though, with inspirations and pauses between enemies and groups.
I agree with taking Gambler's Cut instead of Sting of the Wasp. -
I HAVE actually just wandered around and let my damage auras kill things as they flail away uselessly at me. It makes me chuckle. But yeah, I can't see ONLY doing that. That'd be painful. Main problem, as Celidya says, is that procs only get a chance to fire every 10 seconds, which makes them contribute very little average damage.
Cloak of Fear should still be hitting the boss, so yes, it should allow procs to fire on bosses. -
Quote:VERY well said.Exaclty the question is not relevant when asked to the community as a whole. There cannot be one right answer that stands true both for the min/maxer crowd and for the "what's Mids ?" crowd.
However it's relevant when asked to oneself only, and there personal preference can easily make the balance weight more on one side or the other, because it's not like the difference is huge.
But it's a fact, as very soon we'll have both ATs available to both sides, we'll have more questions like "Brute or scrapper for my X/Y combo ?" on the boards. And it will be easier to answer that, as depending on the combo there can be obvious advantages to roll it as a brute or scrapper. -
Super Reflexes is very late blooming. Pretty much all it has going for it is defense, which is very binary. And the more defense you have, the more each additional % of defense helps. But that means that at a low level, you barely have enough defense to help at all. You might as well not have a secondary. You really have to get all of the critical defensive powers, plus pick up some things to stack with it (e.g., Tough and Weave and a Steadfast Protection IO) before it starts to do its job well. Now, you can (and I did) soft-cap a Claws/Super Reflexes by level 36 using only a single IO, the Steadfast Protection. So you can be very, very survivable by that level with minimal investment. But that's still fairly late in the game, and I don't recommend doing it that way, because to get there, you have to skip a lot of utility and a lot of fun attacks. Instead, I'd focus on getting to 32.5%, and just use a small purple whenever I'm in trouble, and fill in the last 12.5% defense in the forties sometime.
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Quote:Entirely correct. And if you're forming a pick up group task force, there's such a small and arguable difference between Scrappers and Brutes numerically that if that's all you're going on, you could be rejecting a psycho-number cruncher Scrapper in favor of a "what's Mids'?" Brute that never learned how to play their archetype.But then we start getting into the world of psycho-number crunchers with purpled out builds versus players that have never heard of Mids.
More mathematically speaking, if Scrapper performance is 581+/-300 and Brute performance is 592+/-300, even if the difference is real, it is statistically insignificant. You'd be MUCH better served by taking a quick look at power choices and IO set bonuses than going by archetype here, and BOY do I not want this game to head down THAT road. It's supposed to be casual-friendly. Are we really going to start doing gear checks? Are we really going to start rejecting entire archetypes because average performance is 2% lower than another archetype with the sort of spread in performance that we see around here?
I do think that Brutes are ever so slightly superior on paper on average. I think that's about the least relevant thing there is when picking teams.
Mind you, I don't pick up group, so none of this is really relevant to me personally. I think it's just a very bad direction for the player base to head down. -
Right. I might not be a Tank, but squishy I ain't. And chances are, unless that Brute really, really knows what they're doing and have spent billions, they're squishier than my Scrapper. Hell, unless that Tank knows what they're doing, they're probably squishier than my Scrapper.
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For the percentages, I'm reporting what Mids' reports, which is based on the idea that a character's base rate of regeneration is 100%. I never taught myself the "real numbers" version of it.
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In very vague terms, Brute damage is comparable, and Brutes are more survivable. But while I have a go-go-go play style that works well with fury, I still prefer the Scrapper damage mechanic. Also, I prefer blue side. Also, I like Katana. Also, lots of people will disagree with my initial sweeping generalization. And "numerically superior" is very dependent on the situations you commonly find yourself in.
I like Brutes. Just not as much as Scrappers. -
All IMHO of course, and of these, I've only played Claws/SR, and only to 37.
Smoothest 1-50 leveling: Willpower, Regen
Best using SOs or common IOs: Willpower, Super Reflexes
Best mission running: Willpower, Super Reflexes
Best AV running using less than 1 billion inf build: Super Reflexes
Most fun: Super Reflexes
Best Farmer: Fire (for damage), Invuln (good taunt aura, massive survivability on smashing/lethal farms), Willpower (taunt aura, good survivability) -
Well, I pretty much agree with je saist's answer, which is why I hadn't given my own. I didn't mean to be evasive. I apologize.
I'd say that your average Regen scrapper is going to at least three slot the regeneration powers and pick up most of the hit point accolades. That puts you at 500%, and healing 32 hit points per second. Most will pick up and slot Health as well, and you're at 580% regeneration and 37 hit points per second. You might also grab Physical Perfection, and while you wouldn't actually do this, you could three slot for health, and be at 620% and heal 40 hit points per second. While Dull Pain is up, that climbs to 60 hit points per second. Click Instant Healing at the same time and you're at 1620% regeneration and 158 hit points per second.
Now, your average /Regen probably isn't going to three slot everything with health that way, and might not grab Physical Perfection. But your average IO'd /Regen is going to pick up a few hit point bonuses and regeneration bonuses, even when that's not the target. So I'm going to say that an average IO'd Regen is probably healing between 40 and 60 hit points per second full time, with bursts over 150 depending on use of click powers.
You say "nowhere have I seen hard numbers for the regen and recovery ideal rates... which is weird, since.. they're right there, and easy to compare." Well, what do we MEAN by ideal? What's an ideal build? That's very, very difficult to answer, and no answer is going to be "hard" data, it's just going to be someone's opinion on what the best build is. Best build I've examined closely was a Katana/Regen build that Umbral put together and Val Blademaster played that beat four AVs (edit: at the same time) with no temps, no inspirations. It regenerates 55 hit points per second with Dull Pain up (Dull Pain is perma), and 135 hit points per second (edit: with Instant Healing). For recovery, it's recovering 3.97 endurance per second. So I could reasonably argue that those are "ideal" numbers, though people could just as reasonably argue for other numbers.
Ideal recovery, I think, is at least a little easier to close in on than ideal regeneration. To me, ideal recovery is just enough that you never run out of endurance. If you know your attack chain, and your slotting, and how frequently you use certain powers, you can get a pretty good idea how much recovery is enough. As a ballpark figure, I'd shoot for about 3 EPS higher than your toggles, but that's very rough. Some attack chains use less than that, some use more.
Edit: Oh, sorry, didn't say what my own numbers were. I'm at 58 hit points per second with Dull Pain down, 74 hit points per second with it up, and 154 hit points per second with Instant Healing running as well. That's with an I12 build IO'd to the gills... with I12 powers and IOs. -
Quote:The default regeneration is already mighty nice without help. Then you have four great click powers that benefit massively from recharge. Add in Tough and some good defense from pools and IOs, and you've got something that will blow away the survivability of anyone that focuses purely on the regeneration aspect of regeneration.The thing is.. it's /Regeneration. If you're just going to ignore the regen numbers, why bother? -.- (if I could change the powerset - and AT! - of this character, I would, but I can't, so might as well work with what I got) So I figure, if regenning is what it's supposed to do - whether or not they're "useful" - I'm curious as to what good slotted numbers are.
Now, if you WANT to play a /Regen with a really high regeneration rate, that's one thing. My Katana/Regen has more regeneration and less recharge than would be optimal. Fun trumps everything, and if you think a high regeneration rate would be the most fun, go for it. But if you're just looking to make the character strong, I'd urge you to not be swayed by the mere NAME of the power set and the fact that it gives you a high regeneration rate. There is so much more to it than that. -
That's my normal approach - leave a bunch of minions cowering in fear as fuel for Dark Regeneration (and to improve the odds of Theft of Essence firing). I kill lieutenants since they don't fear.
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Also, if you're trying to improve your /Regen, about the last thing you need to worry about is your regeneration and recovery. The name of the game is recharge, recharge, recharge and defense. If this is just intellectual curiosity, of course, then never mind.
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Quote:I have Cloak of Fear two-slotted on my Katana/Dark. I'm using a L53 Endoplasm accuracy/fear and a L50 Nightmare accuracy/endurance. Would it be BETTER with more slots? Absolutely. But it's worth running as is (70% effective against +4s and I can afford the endurance), and it wasn't worth adding more slots. On my build, in most cases, I believe Oppressive Gloom would cause more damage than it prevented. Also, I hate the stun wander in large crowds. I don't want to move or switch targets to keep attacking. I don't want to move or switch targets to keep Divine Avalanche stacked.Cloak of Fear needs to be at least 4 slotted to even be worth running with it's ridiculous end cost and horrible accuracy. Oppressive Gloom you can run effectively with just the default slot if you need to. (I have on my BS/DA AV soloer, that's how I know)
That said, I'd take Oppressive Gloom on a Dark/Dark unless I was building for heavy defense and endurance recovery. Oppressive Gloom is good with the default slot, and unless you have a high defense build, is still going to prevent a lot more damage than it causes you in most situations. -
I would argue that you should take Death Shroud before Stamina. It's an AoE attack for the endurance of a single target attack, basically. Better to stop attacking and let it tick away than to delay the power. But that's my "on paper" thinking. In the real game, it's not much fun standing around doing nothing. It's much more fun to press the attack.
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I'm a big fan of using Katana or Broad Sword to add soft-capped melee and lethal defense. Dark Melee gives you some endurance recovery, which would be nice, plus helps keep your hit points topped up and needing Dark Regeneration less often, plus Soul Drain could probably be a significant buff to Death Shroud to help make up for the lack of AoE. Claws comes at an endurance discount, which could help. Claws and Dual Blades could both buff Death Shroud, plus add some AoE of their own, but wouldn't be my personal first choice since they aren't adding a whole lot in the survivability department. Though admittedly, AoE knockdown can go a long way in the right hands. Spines/Dark is a classic AoE lawnmower, very good at its job. Martial Arts is a little weak overall, but in theory you could stack its stuns with Oppressive Gloom, though I think I've heard that looks better on paper than it is in practice. I'd probably stay away from Electrical Melee and Fiery Melee on a Scrapper due to them bringing little but damage to the table, but that just means you have to kill the enemy before the enemy kills you, and IOs can probably cover the survivability gap. And the fact that I turn my Scrappers into Scrankers doesn't mean that everyone wants to build for maximum survivability, and Electric and Fire can put out some good damage.
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Quote:I forget what to look for, but the table is on paragonwiki somewhere. Maybe in "attack mechanics". I always plug in 39%, which is your to-hit vs. +4s. I want to have at least a 95% chance of hitting +4s.On a related note, I know there is an adjustment in Mids to change the defense/level of the enemy you're fighting, adjusting the math on the accuracy of each attack.
I think mine is set to 75%, which I think is what it should be for an even level Leut. Do we know of a table where the numbers are set?
I might want to set it to +0/8 sometimes and +2 others. -
Quote:Hah! Nice.Yes, have taken out AVs on my own. First was Infernal. Did not even know that it was supposed to be a difficult thing to do when I did it and that was on the first crappy leveling build with just SOs and some blue and red inspirations.
Yeah, Infernal isn't a practice AV. He took multiple tries on both my Katana/Regen and my Dark Melee/Super Reflexes. Only my Katana/Dark sailed through him with no problems.
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Quote:Anyone that actually made Dark Armor decently good to use can probably put the same time/effort into ANOTHER build and get way better results than they did with Dark Armor.Quote:this
In comparison to the SR i made, the Regen i made, and fire spinz farmer this is not that dark is way below the line.
Dark Armor has very good resistance, a massive and fast-recharging self heal, and a couple different approaches for locking down and abusing minions. IOs make it awesome by covering the knockback hole, fixing the endurance problems, and adding large amounts of defense. So in my case, I have a soft-capped toon with very good resistance, sustainable endurance, and a full heal every 15 seconds or so. Now... what part of that sucks? The only thing that "sucks" for me is the lack of defense debuff resistance, which isn't something you've even mentioned, but hey, it needs SOME weakness.
Yeah, it's not as good on only SOs. Neither are most sets. Play it with some basic IOs to cover the issues and it'll be very nice. IO it to the teeth, and it's amazing.
I mean, I'll TAKE a buff if the Devs want to hand one out, but it would be kind of ridiculous. -
I'm with Dechs Kaison on this one. Dark Armor Sucks!
OK, yes, fine. It's not the easiest set to build right. It plays "funny". It relies heavily on a heal. It burns through endurance. Still, Claws/Dark should be a decent combination if for no other reason than Claws gets an endurance discount. Plus Follow Up buffs the damage from Death Shroud for extra AoE goodness. There are other good combinations as well, not just Dark/Dark. My Katana/Dark was very solid for leveling. I did use a Steadfast Protection unique and a Kismet unique, and I frankenslotted in the mid 30s, but that's easily affordable on what you earn as you level. No sets required. I think Dark Armor has overtaken Regeneration as my favorite secondary, actually. But hey, if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't work for you. Turns out I hate the Spines primary. I know there's nothing wrong with it, and that people do great things with it, but it just doesn't work for me. It happens.