would like some other Kat/DAs to lemme know if this is workable
By
ClawsandEffect,
Posted on: 2010-07-12 16:03 in Scrappers
Dark Armor benefits more from defense than anything else.
That amount of recharge unfortunately isn't going to add as much to your survivability as you think it will. You'll be fine on defense in melee range, but any ranged attack that isn't lethal damage is going to cut right through you. Also, Dark Armor has ZERO defense debuff resistance, so unless you're planning on consistently triple stacking DA you're going to find your defense disappearing in a hurry in some situations (in other words, once a defense debuff hits you, they are going to KEEP hitting you until your defense is gone)
Also, take Gambler's Cut instead of Sting of the Wasp. It has better DPA, and activates a lot faster. It will actually increase your DPS to have a faster attack that deals slightly less damage over a slower attack that deals a little more. You can slot it exactly the same and get more mileage out of it than SotW.
Personally, I like the positional defense approach with Sword/DA (mine is Broadsword, so they're identical for slotting purposes).
You should be fine, but you're going to take a lot of hits from range and AoE. Good thing Dark Regen recharges in 10 seconds.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
I'd say it's not as strong as it could be with more defense, but it's not weak either. Looks like it could be fun to play. I'm worried about your endurance, though. Haven't done any calculations, but it looks unsustainable to me. Might be enough for normal play, though, with inspirations and pauses between enemies and groups.
I agree with taking Gambler's Cut instead of Sting of the Wasp.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
thanks for the responses, will definitely switch out Gambler's Cut, was too lazy to do the DPA calculation for it.
Was going for a different approach to softcapping this time around. Usually on DA I softcap S/L, but with Katana, and due to my playstyle, I decided I would mostly be good hanging with melee defense. I usually do have DA triple stacked, I actually just keep it on auto most of the time. I also am less worried about softcapping as I will usually be duoing with my gf's D4.
Werner, I was wondering if you had reworked yours again since the BotZ changes.
Based on my play with my DA/DM, I should be more than fine for end. Really haven't had too many problems with it so far either.
The reason I didn't push for softcapped positional defense is that I wanted a bit more wiggle room for concept instead of pure min/max, and the softcapped positional build, at least based on Werner's old build, was pretty tight for my taste.
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
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Nope, still haven't reworked it. Not sure I've even played it since I17. Been messing around with my Martial Arts/Fire Scrapper and my Dark Melee/Invuln Brute. Also not playing that much recently.
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Originally Posted by _Deth_
Werner, I was wondering if you had reworked yours again since the BotZ changes.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Hi Deth,
I havent checked your build in depth, as I dont play a Sword/DA myself and there are other people specialists in this kind of combo on the boards, but with just a quick glance at it I can say : you really want to 6-slot Dark Regen to get the most out of it... Especially if you're going for a +rech build.
You want a good accuracy, around +50% healing, +80% end reduction, good recharge, and the +end proc. That requires 6 slots. Dark Regen is a very big end hog otherwise if you underslot it, and it can pretty much destroy your endurance bar fast.
Then personnally I would build it for S/L +def enough to be capped with one application of DA, then for E/N up to 35%+, and I wouldnt bother much with F/C unless you have something very specific in mind. But that's just me, not the only way to do it of course.
The problem with investing alot of slots into your defenses however is that you probably wont have the beautiful GD->GC->SD->GC chain working (it requires +250% recharge in GD). So if I was to go with a recharge build for a Kat/DA, I would first make sure this chain is working because that would be the main reason for that choice.
Good luck with your scrapper 
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Originally Posted by Ehina
Then personnally I would build it for S/L +def enough to be capped with one application of DA, then for E/N up to 35%+, and I wouldnt bother much with F/C unless you have something very specific in mind. But that's just me, not the only way to do it of course. |
Divine Avalanche will NOT cap smashing and lethal defense, it provides MELEE and lethal, it gives you ZERO smashing defense. That's why my Broadsword/Dark Armor scrapper is built using positional. Even after the BotZ nerf I'm sitting at 34% to ranged and AoE, and melee is well beyond softcap with double stacked Parry.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Yep, of course, and I was unclear in my previous post about this point. Typed defense wont give you a complete S/L defense coupled with DA, it will give you lethal and melee and that leaves range smashing attacks out. You need for that to check that both your melee and lethal are capped with one application of DA (that is not hard as you can use defense HOs in DA). I assume pure smashing range attacks are pretty rare (Hurl type attacks ?). I'd like to be 100% sure on that point.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Divine Avalanche will NOT cap smashing and lethal defense, it provides MELEE and lethal, it gives you ZERO smashing defense. That's why my Broadsword/Dark Armor scrapper is built using positional. Even after the BotZ nerf I'm sitting at 34% to ranged and AoE, and melee is well beyond softcap with double stacked Parry.
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Anyway, as I said it would be the way I'd do it in a first draft if it was for myself, and I can't be sure it would be optimal, as I have not built a Sword/DA yet. Maybe you're right about positionnal being better, I find it a little less flexible in terms of slotting (alot of x6 sets, against x3 and x4 for typed). I'll need to check this by myself one of those days. In the meanwhile, I'll let the combo specialists give more accurate advices than mine in this thread
How can you be slotting for regen when you wont' even let Health get enhanced?
It's 79% with three common IOs...but, then again...slots are scarce.
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I went with positional due to some very simple math. DA/Parry covers twice as many positions as it does types. DA/Parry covers 1/3rd of the positions, while only covering 1/6th of the types. |
Originally Posted by Ehina
Yep, of course, and I was unclear in my previous post about this point. Typed defense wont give you a complete S/L defense coupled with DA, it will give you lethal and melee and that leaves range smashing attacks out. You need for that to check that both your melee and lethal are capped with one application of DA (that is not hard as you can use defense HOs in DA). I assume pure smashing range attacks are pretty rare (Hurl type attacks ?). I'd like to be 100% sure on that point.
Anyway, as I said it would be the way I'd do it in a first draft if it was for myself, and I can't be sure it would be optimal, as I have not built a Sword/DA yet. Maybe you're right about positionnal being better, I find it a little less flexible in terms of slotting (alot of x6 sets, against x3 and x4 for typed). I'll need to check this by myself one of those days. In the meanwhile, I'll let the combo specialists give more accurate advices than mine in this thread |
You said it would leave you open to ranged/smashing? Well, it would also leave you open to E/N/F/C ranged and AoE. You'll be softcapped to melee and lethal, but if you're slotting in order to cap them with only one application, you're taking up slot space that could be used for E/N/F/C defense. In essence, the more S/L defense you get, the less you will be able to acquire of the other types.
I have a cheap build that softcaps melee with 2 applications of Parry, and has 35%+ to ranged and AoE. I'm also over softcap on lethal damage, so the most common defense debuff in the game (machine guns) will not be hitting me very often. If you can do better than that with typed defense, go for it, but I haven't seen anyone pull it off yet.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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No I said in my first post I would slot for typed S/L and E/N, and would not necessarily bother with F/C (depending on the build constraints, sometime you can fit 3x Aegis in, sometime you cant). And you need only 22% S/L/Melee defense to be capped with one application of Divine Avalanche to all S/L but range smashing, as with 2 HOs you can make DA provide 23% defense. I'm not sure that's the best way to do it, maybe positionnal is better and you're right about DA covering 1/3 of the positions. I'm out |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
You said it would leave you open to ranged/smashing? Well, it would also leave you open to E/N/F/C ranged and AoE. You'll be softcapped to melee and lethal, but if you're slotting in order to cap them with only one application, you're taking up slot space that could be used for E/N/F/C defense. In essence, the more S/L defense you get, the less you will be able to acquire of the other types.
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Originally Posted by Ehina
No I said in my first post I would slot for typed S/L and E/N, and would not necessarily bother with F/C (depending on the build constraints, sometime you can fit 3x Aegis in, sometime you cant). And you need only 22% S/L/Melee defense to be capped with one application of Divine Avalanche to all S/L but range smashing, as with 2 HOs you can make DA provide 23% defense. I'm not sure that's the best way to do it, maybe positionnal is better and you're right about DA covering 1/3 of the positions. I'm out
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I was just explaining why I chose positional over typed for Sword/Dark.
With typed you end up with more holes in your defense than with positional.
As I said before, I have at least 35% to all positions. With typed defense, I have never seen anyone get all types over 35%, at least not on a Dark Armor scrapper. Most builds I have seen that focus on typed defense have a pretty significant hole to Fire and Cold ranged and AoE attacks. I also haven't seen too many that top 35% to energy and negative energy.
I have at least 35% defense to melee, ranged, and AoE that covers: smashing, lethal, energy, negative, fire, cold, psionic, and toxic. I've never seen a typed defense build that can do better. Most of them have a Fire/Cold hole that I lack by covering it positionally. And a typed defense build has no defense to a pure toxic attack at all, all toxic attacks have a positional component, so I have that covered.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big advocate for typed defense, except in the case of Broadsword or Katana paired with Dark Armor. Any other primary I would be suggesting typed myself. Even for Sword/Dark typed defense will be functional, just that positional defense leaves fewer holes.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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yeah, as I stated in the beginning, I am taking a different approach. I am well versed in DA, thanks to many conversations with and advice from Jebe_the_Pirate. |
Originally Posted by Ehina
Hi Deth,
I havent checked your build in depth, as I dont play a Sword/DA myself and there are other people specialists in this kind of combo on the boards, but with just a quick glance at it I can say : you really want to 6-slot Dark Regen to get the most out of it... Especially if you're going for a +rech build. You want a good accuracy, around +50% healing, +80% end reduction, good recharge, and the +end proc. That requires 6 slots. Dark Regen is a very big end hog otherwise if you underslot it, and it can pretty much destroy your endurance bar fast. Then personnally I would build it for S/L +def enough to be capped with one application of DA, then for E/N up to 35%+, and I wouldnt bother much with F/C unless you have something very specific in mind. But that's just me, not the only way to do it of course. The problem with investing alot of slots into your defenses however is that you probably wont have the beautiful GD->GC->SD->GC chain working (it requires +250% recharge in GD). So if I was to go with a recharge build for a Kat/DA, I would first make sure this chain is working because that would be the main reason for that choice. Good luck with your scrapper |
My original build was for softcapped s/l, and of course lethal. This would have me set pretty well in most situations.
I considered going for positional, but decided that if I cant hit the softcap for aoe or ranged, I wasnt going to mess with it.
I then decided that due to many factors, including my playstyle and the fact that I made this toon specifically to play with gf's D4, that I would go for recharge instead. I wanted something fun and fast. Besides that, we have to builds to work with, so later on I can setup a def based solo build, which I already have setup in mid's anyway.
Dark Regen will be fine with this slotting. Yeah it's an end hog, but that is what the ToE proc is for, which I already have slotted. Like I said, I have a lot of experience with DA.
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Originally Posted by Postagulous
How can you be slotting for regen when you wont' even let Health get enhanced?
It's 79% with three common IOs...but, then again...slots are scarce. |
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I was just explaining why I chose positional over typed for Sword/Dark.
With typed you end up with more holes in your defense than with positional. As I said before, I have at least 35% to all positions. With typed defense, I have never seen anyone get all types over 35%, at least not on a Dark Armor scrapper. Most builds I have seen that focus on typed defense have a pretty significant hole to Fire and Cold ranged and AoE attacks. I also haven't seen too many that top 35% to energy and negative energy. I have at least 35% defense to melee, ranged, and AoE that covers: smashing, lethal, energy, negative, fire, cold, psionic, and toxic. I've never seen a typed defense build that can do better. Most of them have a Fire/Cold hole that I lack by covering it positionally. And a typed defense build has no defense to a pure toxic attack at all, all toxic attacks have a positional component, so I have that covered. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big advocate for typed defense, except in the case of Broadsword or Katana paired with Dark Armor. Any other primary I would be suggesting typed myself. Even for Sword/Dark typed defense will be functional, just that positional defense leaves fewer holes. |
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.
Re: Regen
I guess I got confused by your first post. [Second paragraph, first sentence.]
I think that the third slot in Hasten is being wasted. I would move it up to Stamina and slot it with Perf Shifter End Mod/Recharge. The extra bit of endurance helps and you obtain more recovery without losing much in the recharge. Hasten would only be down, at the most, for a couple of seconds with the change.
Decided I may take a different approach on my Kat/DA.
Instead of following my general instincts and softcapping for S/L, I decided I want to push the hell out of regen and boost up some total end. I am figuring the melee def from DA will carry me mostly as far as defense goes, and an 11 second recharge on DR aint too shabby.
I could be wrong tho. And yes, this build is going to be sickeningly expensive. Don't care, so far, I love this toon as much as my DA/DM, and that toon is already finished with IOs, so i get to pour it all on this one.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Dethblade: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Katana
Secondary Power Set: Dark Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Sting of the Wasp
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (3) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (5) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (5) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (7) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
Level 1: Dark Embrace- (A) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
- (7) Impervium Armor - Resistance
- (9) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (9) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
Level 2: Death Shroud- (A) Eradication - Damage
- (13) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
- (13) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (15) Eradication - Damage/Recharge
- (15) Endurance Reduction IO
- (17) Endurance Reduction IO
Level 4: Murky Cloud- (A) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
- (17) Impervium Armor - Resistance
- (19) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (19) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
Level 6: Combat Jumping- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
- (23) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
- (23) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (40) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (40) Kismet - Accuracy +6%
Level 8: Divine Avalanche- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
- (25) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
- (25) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
- (27) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (27) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (29) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
Level 10: Obsidian Shield- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (11) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
- (11) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
Level 12: Swift- (A) Run Speed IO
Level 14: Super Jump- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Run Speed, Jump, Flight Speed, Range/Endurance
- (40) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
Level 16: Dark Regeneration- (A) Theft of Essence - Chance for +Endurance
- (31) Theft of Essence - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Theft of Essence - Accuracy/Healing
- (33) Theft of Essence - Accuracy/Endurance/Healing
Level 18: Health- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (33) Miracle - +Recovery
- (33) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
Level 20: Stamina- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
- (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod
- (21) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Accuracy
Level 22: The Lotus Drops- (A) Eradication - Damage
- (37) Eradication - Damage/Recharge
- (37) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (37) Eradication - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (39) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
Level 24: Cloak of Darkness- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
Level 26: Soaring Dragon- (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (31) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
- (34) Hecatomb - Damage
- (34) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
- (42) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
- (42) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
Level 28: Hasten- (A) Recharge Reduction IO
- (29) Recharge Reduction IO
- (34) Recharge Reduction IO
Level 30: Boxing- (A) Empty
Level 32: Golden Dragonfly- (A) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (42) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
- (43) Armageddon - Damage
- (43) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (46) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
- (48) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
Level 35: Tough- (A) Impervium Armor - Psionic Resistance
- (36) Impervium Armor - Resistance
- (36) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
- (45) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
Level 38: Weave- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
Level 41: Build Up- (A) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
- (43) HamiO:Membrane Exposure
Level 44: Petrifying Gaze- (A) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage
- (45) Unbreakable Constraint - Hold/Recharge
- (45) Unbreakable Constraint - Accuracy/Hold/Recharge
- (46) Unbreakable Constraint - Accuracy/Recharge
- (46) Unbreakable Constraint - Endurance/Hold
- (50) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold
Level 47: Dark Blast- (A) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
- (48) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
- (48) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge
- (50) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (50) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
Level 49: Soul Transfer- (A) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff
------------Level 1: Brawl
- (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint- (A) Celerity - +Stealth
Level 2: Rest- (A) Empty
Level 1: Critical HitLevel 0: Ninja Run
Dark Armor is like that kid you knew in school that didn't know when to shut up, and no matter how bad he got beaten down, he got right back up again and kept on talking.