Werner

I've never found the “based on luck” of Super Reflexes to be an issue. Yeah, your health can sometimes move rapidly. Just pop an inspiration. But maybe it doesn't seem like a problem to me because I'm so used to Regeneration, which is a MUCH wilder ride.

Willpower might be good. You wouldn't have to worry much about endurance, and your survivability will be less based on luck and reaction time than with Super Reflexes.

I think Shield Defense could be a lot of fun, buffing your already good damage, but it's largely a defense-based secondary as well. Still, it's less so than Super Reflexes, so maybe it's enough.

You could go Fire/Fire – extra damage and a resistance/healing secondary. Consume gives you an endurance recovery tool.

Here's the build I've used while leveling up. I do NOT recommend using this build directly – I wanted to prove that you could hit the soft cap (45% defense) by level 36 using only a single IO, and that the build would be playable. And it was playable, and extremely durable, but those are NOT the same thing as the most FUN. The problem with my build is that I skipped some of the best attacks to get the defense that early. It also has no travel power.

Now the reason I'm posting it anyway is that the problems are very easily fixed – just insert other powers as desired. In this case, I'd insert at least Follow Up and Focus, probably Shockwave. I'm a fan of delaying travel powers for a long time and making due with the temporary travel powers (let me know if this needs more explanation), so I'd probably still push a travel power off, but you don't have to. The more powers you insert, the longer the soft cap is delayed. But you don't NEED to be at the soft cap to be very survivable on a Super Reflexes, particularly since, as JAXMAN says, you can just pop a purple inspiration to make up the difference if you're in a tough fight. I don't recommend Aid Self unless you're shooting for no-inspiration challenges, as green inspirations are easier, faster, and can't be interrupted.

Oh, and I also recommend frankenslotting your attacks (let me know if this needs more explanation) some time in the 30s. I generally do it when endurance starts becoming a problem again due to all the toggles I'm adding. Sticking with just SOs when it is so cheap and easy to do better was just part of the proof of concept on this build, and not a very good idea.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 36 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- Acc(A), Acc(3), EndRdx(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(7)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(7), DefBuff(9), EndRdx(9)
Level 2: Strike -- Acc(A), Acc(11), EndRdx(11), EndRdx(13), Dmg(13), Dmg(15)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(15), DefBuff(17), EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Slash -- Acc(A), Acc(19), EndRdx(19), RechRdx(21), Dmg(21), Dmg(23)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(23)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A)
Level 14: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(25)
Level 18: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(27), EndMod(27)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), EndRdx(29)
Level 24: Weave -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(31), DefBuff(31), EndRdx(31)
Level 26: Agile -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(29), DefBuff(33)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(33), DefBuff(34), EndRdx(34)
Level 30: Lucky -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(33), DefBuff(34)
Level 32: Quickness -- Run(A)
Level 35: Evasion -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36), EndRdx(36)
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit



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[ QUOTE ]
If however you have a little less loose budget, through Merits and whatnot. DM/SR will also work and give a little build space.

[/ QUOTE ]
I suppose you're right. I tend to think of Dark Melee as “requiring” the Smite -&gt; Midnight Grasp -&gt; Smite -&gt; Siphon Life chain. That requires a lot of recharge, and is therefore very expensive.

But the Smite -&gt; Shadow Punch -&gt; Midnight Grasp -&gt; Smite -&gt; Shadow Punch -&gt; Siphon Life chain isn't too much worse and takes much less recharge, so should also be somewhat cheaper to pull off. You don't get Siphon Life as often, but you can spam it when you really need it.

And as I think you were suggesting, you then don't need Aid Self, which will make the build a little easier to put together.

[ QUOTE ]
just merge the [censored] things already. no counter proposals will be heard, no half measures will be accepted. stuff your stupid rp fantasies and give a fair and equitable supply line to both halves of the game. if you're any kind of decent roleplayer anyway, you can use your imagination for a justification. and if it's just about the money you stand to lose, well go blow. if you're any good at marketeering you'll recoup your losses sooner or later. or you wont, I don't care.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I think the RP solution is trivial – just pretend they AREN'T merged. It's not like you ever see or even know who bought your stuff. Seems pretty simple to me. Who cares what's actually going on on some server somewhere in the real world?

[ QUOTE ]
Lets see AV soloer that is cheap and is great on Team...Well Fire/SR is just right for you. You can make a cheap AV solo and with FSC you are good for Teams too.

If you pick Fire/SR which I think would be the best for you. Here is my guide to Fire/SR Scrapper.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll second that suggestion. Fire puts out good single target and AoE damage, and Fire/SR is AV soloing on the cheap.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stuff about Greater Fire Sword

[/ QUOTE ]
Fair enough. I've never thought about dropping it, but if it isn't needed for a decent string of attacks then I was wrong and the OP can discard it. My mistake, and now off to try a respec without GFS

[/ QUOTE ]
145% recharge in Incinerate, 90% in Cremate, 75% in Scorch. It isn't that GFS is a bad attack - it's a great attack - but yeah, there are so many good attacks that you can easily do without it.

I believe it's

/screenshotui 1
/screenshotui 0

For on and off respectively. And I think it resets every time you log off.

I agree. Not cheating to put a regular AV in an AE mission to make them easier or possible to get to. Building your own custom easy AV would be a different story.

I put a Kismet and a Steadfast in every character leveling up. That's all I consider essential, though you'll certainly benefit from others.

There's nothing particularly high-endurance about Dual Blades, though I suppose it does tend towards the high end of the sets. The range is fairly narrow, though, excluding the intentional outlier of Claws. Just make sure to slot endurance reduction in the attacks, you'll want Stamina, and frankenslotting at some point is a good idea.

Bah! I was posting the same link! Anyway, yeah, it's a decent combo. And as for the tl;dr version of the linked thread - Nihilii annihilates everything with his pimped-out DB/Invuln.

Dual Blades does a nice combination of AoE and single-target damage. Yes, you can handle large spawns single handed. You “need” the Attack Vitals combo, and many people pick up the Sweep Combo as well. The typical DPS chain is Blinding Feint -&gt; Attack Vitals.

I have a lowbie Dual Blades/Willpower brute. I'm not enjoying him nearly as much as my Dual Blades/Willpower scrapper. Maybe Dual Blades just isn't as much fun on a brute. I loved my Super Strength/Willpower brute.

Invulnerable's performance depends a lot on what you're trying to survive. If it's smashing/lethal, you're unkillable. If it's FCEN, you're pretty good. If it's psi, you better have a back up plan. I have no problem with sets that include an Achilles' heel, but you'll want to be aware that you have one. It's manageable, though.

As a general rule, I try to avoid set mules. I WANT to get all of my set bonuses out of powers that actually benefit from slotting. But as a general rule, set mules end up in my builds anyway. They're often just the best way to accomplish something.

(edit: And thanks, Powerforge. I, uh... like you too? *chuckle*)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Sorry about that I just assume everyone is a 300 LBS Man till I'm told different



[/ QUOTE ]

Lmao!! Me too!

[/ QUOTE ]
Hey! I'm only 280!

Me, until proved otherwise, I assume that a female avatar means female, a male avatar means male, then female name means female, male name means male, then if it's still indistinct, my brain seems to assign a very specific gender at random.

It's the random assignment that I find most amusing. It's like my brain is SURE that Broga32 is a woman, and IxBot is a man. Wha?

And even if I've learned otherwise, my brain still wants to go with its original assumption, and I have to smack it with a newspaper and shout “No!” fairly often.

Brains. Weird little organs.

[ QUOTE ]
So Rules of thumb like in general 5 slot rather than 6 slot attacks unless there is a really good reason for it and here are the really good reasons you might want to 6 slot

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, my rule of thumb is the opposite. If an attack is worth using, it's worth 6-slotting. My attack philosophy is that it's better to use a few great attacks than a lot of mediocre attacks.

[ QUOTE ]
You guys so play at a different level than I do! I'm still just mashing the attacks when they recharge!

[/ QUOTE ]
If it's any consolation, I level up using mostly SOs, and I'm just mashing my attacks as they recharge on most of my lowbies. The normal game is simple enough that I just go out there and play rather than crunching the numbers. I generally frankenslot and try to get a decent attack chain going in the 30s sometime, and call that good until 50.

[ QUOTE ]
So when you make, lets say a DM/SD you already know what your end game attacks are going to be?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep. Before I even select my primary and secondary, I know what they're capable of and basically how they get there. On a Dark Melee/Shield Defense, I know I'm going to be chaining Smite -&gt; Midnight Grasp -&gt; Smite -&gt; Siphon Life. I've done it so often that without even checking, I know that will require something like +234% recharge (close, +234.22%, which I should round up, not down). That means Hasten so the Speed pool. I get a heal from my attack chain, so I don't need Aid Self. I'll need Fitness, I'll want Fighting for the resistance and to get me closer to the soft cap. Then I'll need to make the hard choice of convenience (Leaping) or more power but with endurance and travel problems that need to be solved (Leadership). I'd probably start with Leadership and then back off if I can't manage the endurance. I'll want Shadow Maul for AoE, but might find I won't be able to fit it in, so it'll go in last. My first pass will be a purple set in Midnight Grasp, but I'd like to move it to Smite if I can, because I'll get more use out of the purple proc that way. My first pass will probably involve slotting some Luck of the Gambler sets in my defenses, because I need lots of recharge, which means Luck of the Gambler globals, so I'm one IO into those sets already. I'll probably slot three or four in each defense, as that is where I usually end up. I'm expecting endurance problems, plus I'm trying to buff defense, so I'll put a full Performance Shifter set with the proc in Stamina, which I think gives me some defense bonus (yep, 3.13% AoE). And so on and so forth, and all of that floating around in my mind before I even touch Mids'.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you have intermediate chains for different stages of development?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll generally have SOME sort of chain by the mid 30s. Chances are good that it won't be the same chain as I'd use on a completely IO'd out build. Sometimes I'll have one much earlier. Sometimes I just mash attacks as they recharge.

[ QUOTE ]
How do you figure out whats the best chain for your level, the attacks you have and your recharge rate?

[/ QUOTE ]
Basically speaking, I took the numbers for average unslotted damage, endurance consumption, activation time and recharge time and plugged them into a spreadsheet. The spreadsheet does account for Arcanatime (i.e., if an attack SAYS it activates in 1.33 seconds, it will actually take up (roundup(1.33/0.132)+1)*0.132 = 1.584 seconds in an attack chain, so THAT is the time of greatest interest. Make columns for DPS, DPE and EPS. Make notes next to the attacks if they have secondary effects or are AoEs. Now look at what you have. You'll see a big range in the DPS. You generally want the higher DPS attacks, but often, some are only available at higher levels. That's a problem for low level chains. For that matter, so is endurance consumption and all sorts of stuff. I guess that's why I don't worry about it until I'm in the 30s, all attacks are available, Stamina is slotted up, and I'm ready to frankenslot to carefully balance my recharge with my endurance consumption. Anyway, once you have the basic numbers, it's mostly a matter of trial and error. Just keep making guesses as to what a good chain might be. Plug it in, add up the damage and Arcanatimes, and get the total DPS and EPS. For recharge, add up the Arcanatimes of the attacks between each activation of the attack of interest. The required recharge TIME is just that total, while the required recharge enhancement is unenhanced recharge time / necessary recharge time – 100%.

And I suppose that points out something else. I am NOT trying to figure out the best chain for the attacks I have and my recharge rate. I am specifically choosing attacks and tailoring my recharge rate to run the best chain. If I can't run the best chain at an attainable level of recharge (for my current budget, usually very low while I'm leveling), then I'll run the next best, or whichever one I can run. But I'm working towards a very specific chain, not just picking and slotting attacks and then seeing what I can do with them.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's rather interesting that even the "easiest" AVs are stoppers for us without IOs (thus far). I'm certain other ATs can solo AVs with only SOs

[/ QUOTE ]

If by 'interesting' you mean sad and thematically wrong, then yeah. If other at's can solo av's without IO's, you would think the at that was supposed to be the best soloing at should be able to do it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't think it is at ALL sad that we haven't soloed AVs with just SOs, no temps, and no inspirations – yet. AVs are one of the toughest challenges in the game, and we're tying both hands behind our back and trying to go in and take them down with sissy kicks (except for kickmaster Martial Arts, of course). And so far we haven't succeeded? Well, duh? *chuckle* Still, I'm convinced we'll get it done. We're right on that borderline. It won't take much to push us over, and even just trying a whole bunch of times until we get lucky is one of the things that can push us over.

Heck, I could probably have a better shot at it if I dropped my current requirement for even-level SOs. Even level 52 SOs would increase my damage by a non-negligible amount (given how close my current damage is to their regeneration). But I don't want to go there until I've exhausted the possibilities with even-level SOs.

Boy am I late to work.

Well, I can probably fill it a lot of the broad strokes I would make in my first iteration of a build. Keep in mind that I mostly deal in the crazy expensive top end builds, so some of the specifics won't apply more generally.

Basically, your goal is to do damage. To keep doing damage, you must be able to survive and to not run out of endurance, but the first thing to look at is how you're going to do damage.

So the first thing I look at is my attack chain. I pretty much have a library of the chains I would use and what they require, so it's easy for me – I just browse my library. I know that if I'm going to use the Broad Sword with a less defensive secondary, I'm probably going to want to chain Head Splitter -&gt; Parry -&gt; Disembowel -&gt; Hack -&gt; Parry. I know I want that chain because I believe it's the highest DPS chain that double-stacks Parry. Then I look up the required recharge, and I've got a good idea what I'm facing for both power choices (do I need Hasten?) and set bonuses.

To do the same thing with less experience, just ask the question on the boards – what are the best chains for a given primary, why are they the best, and how much recharge do they require? Or if you can get more specific about your needs “for taking down an AV with no inspirations” or “for destroying crowds of minions”, that's even better.

The attacks that require the most recharge usually get a purple set with all but the damage. If I find later that I have enough recharge, I'll swap out the damage/recharge and pick up the straight damage. Or I might move the purple set to an attack that doesn't need the recharge but is used more frequently and can therefore benefit more from the purple damage proc.

If you want to do some AoE, as most team builds probably should, then you'll also want to pick up some AoE attacks. I normally skip that part since I mostly solo and gear my builds towards big game hunting.

Then you're looking at your survivability. If your secondary is capable of it within your budgetary constraints, you're likely to want to soft cap one or more types/positions of defense, ideally either a full set of positional defense or a full set of typed defense. That's your primary goal, though you also have to always make sure you have enough recharge to run your attack chain (and preferably have a little extra for when you're slowed). I pretty much always take Tough and Weave in my first pass, and they usually end up staying. If you don't have a heal, and you are anything but Willpower, and you want to do any no inspiration challenges, you'll want to pick up Aid Self.

As for figuring out which sets offer which bonuses, I just use the set bonus finder in Mids'.

There are also some uniques that always go into the first pass at a build – Kismet, Steadfast Protection, the... uh... other 3% defense unique (Gladiator's Armor?), Numina, Miracle, Regenerative tissue. That might be it. Also, you want the Regenerative Tissue and Numina uniques to be in a passive or toggle that has the highest +health enhancement bonus in it (unless you six slot Numina, which will limit your options in that regard).

For a no inspiration challenge build, you have an additional big concern – endurance. I would generally slot a set of Performance Shifters with the proc. Between all the uniques and the Performance Shifter, most builds in most situations will be fine. But no inspiration challenges are a bit different, and will likely require further tuning to reduce endurance costs and increase endurance recovery. In a high recharge build, Conserve Power is often a great help.

I would also want Tactics or Focused Accuracy because I hate missing, and because they make a good home for the Gaussian set with its +2.5% defense to all set bonus.

You also slowly pick up a long list of tricks that you can use for certain outcomes, such as slotting out Boxing for the recharge bonus, or slotting ranged powers with three Apocalypse and three Devastation for +5.25% hit points per power if your build needs hit points, or putting a stealth IO in sprint and clicking it on and off for two minutes of stealth.

Well, that's what I'm thinking of for now. Someone else may be able to give some other general suggestions.

We know how to build that way because we have a lot of experience building. We know what powers to choose, we know what sets are good for which things, so we can pretty quickly throw together something that's in the neighborhood of what we want. That's when the tinkering starts, and it can go on for a long time.

For Boxing, yes, you pretty much know you're going to want Tough and Weave. Slotting Boxing as a set mule is to me a choice of last resort, since it uses so many slots, but it is one way to get that last 10% recharge that you need.

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like Bobcat is vulnerable to negative as well. So yeah, maybe Bobcat or Shadowhunter on Sergei. Shouldn't be too hard to throw together a build for him.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, that's right. Shadowhunter has defense debuffs and defense. I can handle it on my normal build because I have a lot of to hit and because Divine Avalanche recharges much faster. But I spent most of the fairly short fight heavily debuffed and getting hit repeatedly. The good news is that he doesn't hit very hard. The bad news was that I couldn't keep up with it forever. After maybe five minutes, I just had nothing left.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So I guess the next best bet is a low damage lethal AV so that I can focus on attacking instead of staying alive. Ideas?


[/ QUOTE ]

Use Sergei vs Shadowhunter and immobalize him at range. Werner might be ok vs shadowhunter, too since he's mostly melee, but sergei gets 20% damage bonus vs him from dark attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]
Looks like Bobcat is vulnerable to negative as well. So yeah, maybe Bobcat or Shadowhunter on Sergei. Shouldn't be too hard to throw together a build for him.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
on the resist shields alone, dark armor should have the end cost reduced

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you serious? What is wrong with 0.21 EPS for 22.5% FCEN resistance? What is wrong with 0.21 EPS for your mez protection plus 37.5% psionic resistance? And what the [censored] is wrong with 0.21 EPS for 22.5% smashing, lethal, negative and toxic resistance? Invulnerability pays 0.26 EPS for 22.5% against only smashing and lethal. Willpower pays 0.21 EPS for only 16.9% against smashing, lethal and psionics. Sounds to me like Dark Armor is getting off easy. You REALLY want the devs to take a closer look at this?

Again, I think Cloak of Fear could use a little looking at to make it more popular, but I don't think Dark Armor overall needs any serious buffing.

[/ QUOTE ]

er...what?

dark armor on a tanker costs 0.21 eps for 30% smash/lethal, 22.5% on a scrapper

willpower on a tanker costs 0.21 eps for 30% smash/lethal, 22.53% on a scrapper

you forgot to add in hpt which is passive 7.5% resist to all, 5.63% on a scrapper

[/ QUOTE ]
er...what?

You're adding a toggle AND a passive together on Willpower (two power choices), saying they're EQUAL to the resistance and EPS from a single toggle on Dark Armor (one power choice), and then saying that Dark Armor is WORSE off as a result, and therefore deserves to have its endurance cost lowered???

I didn't FORGET to add in HPT. Why SHOULD I add it in when comparing two toggles for their effectiveness vs. endurance cost??? It's a completely different power!

But fine, we can play it that way. You want the same thing out of Dark Armor as you get out of Willpower, we can split Dark Embrace into both a passive and a toggle. It'll be the same endurance cost and the same total level of resistance, but now it'll take two power choices instead of one. To make room in the set, we'll sacrifice some Dark Armor toggle that everyone complains about, like maybe Death Shroud. Endurance and resistance problem solved! There's your “buff”. Dark Armor is now teh ubers. Happy?

Didn't think so.

(edit: Anyway, this is getting ridiculous, and I don't think I can even be civil any more, so I'm bowing out of the discussion. Knock yourselves out.)

[ QUOTE ]
Who here would give up the AE nature of Dark Regen (and its therefore massive effect) if it meant CoF could be, say, mag 3?

[/ QUOTE ]
I would.

What?

[ QUOTE ]
do you believe the intention is for DA to be operating with all it's toggles or do you believe the intention is to manage those toggles by clicking them on and off to conserve endurance?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure about the intention. I will say that I don't manage endurance by clicking my toggles off. What I do is not take all my toggles (I skip either Oppressive Gloom or Cloak of Fear). If I start running out of endurance, and I don't have blues or any other practical way of handling it, I slow down my attacking. Death Shroud is my best attack, so that's the one I want to use, and I'm not big on turning off my survivability toggles, so I just slow down my primary.

So I guess my answer is neither. It isn't "intended" that you sit there clicking your toggles on and off, nor is it "intended" that you take and run all the toggles all the time.

And to continue restating a couple points, Death Shroud shouldn't be included in these endurance comparisons any more than Shield Charge should be, and I'll agree that Cloak of Fear could use a little work.

QR

Let me take another approach to discussing the cost of Death Shroud. Let's say it had 10x the endurance cost and 10x the damage. It would cost 5.20 EPS, but would also do 125 damage every 2 seconds unslotted.

I'd be ALL OVER that power. I'd frankenslot the hell out of it for accuracy, endurance and damage. And before even looking at Build Up and Follow Up powers, I'd be doing about 125 DPS of PBAoE damage for about 2.60 EPS. That's HUGE. Any regular attacks that that point would be merely gravy. It would be an AMAZING power.

What I wouldn't do is complain about the endurance cost, or say that Dark Armor now sucked 10x worse, because I'd know I was getting away with murder.

And that's what we have in Death Shroud, just to a lesser degree. Which is what I keep thinking when people complain about the endurance cost of it. You're getting away with murder and then complaining that the police aren't helping you to shoot more victims.

[ QUOTE ]
on a tanker. numbers from mids. 3 level 50 common io's. no end reduction in toggles i see the following (with tough)... with oppressive gloom and cloak of fear going: 2.33 eps

[/ QUOTE ]
Death Shroud is an ATTACK. The fact that it is also a toggle doesn't take away from the fact that it is an ATTACK. I wouldn't be including attacks in this analysis. Besides, as attacks go, it is ludicrously cheap on the endurance for the AoE damage it puts out (half the cost of other AoEs). In other words, Death Shroud is part of the solution to endurance problems, not part of the problem. As for Cloak of Fear, you have a very effective low-endurance alternative in Oppressive Gloom, almost nobody runs them both, and it seems like the large majority don't run Cloak of Fear. That a toggle is AVAILABLE doesn't make it a problem.

[ QUOTE ]
on the resist shields alone, dark armor should have the end cost reduced

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you serious? What is wrong with 0.21 EPS for 22.5% FCEN resistance? What is wrong with 0.21 EPS for your mez protection plus 37.5% psionic resistance? And what the [censored] is wrong with 0.21 EPS for 22.5% smashing, lethal, negative and toxic resistance? Invulnerability pays 0.26 EPS for 22.5% against only smashing and lethal. Willpower pays 0.21 EPS for only 16.9% against smashing, lethal and psionics. Sounds to me like Dark Armor is getting off easy. You REALLY want the devs to take a closer look at this?

Again, I think Cloak of Fear could use a little looking at to make it more popular, but I don't think Dark Armor overall needs any serious buffing.

[ QUOTE ]
I guess there are so many ways to cover the knockback hole that I consider it a non-issue in practice. As Achilles' heels go, it's... well, not one.

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just a quick note: The game is not supposed to be balanced around IOs, sets, or procs.

Take away IOs from Dark Armor, look at what you're left with, then ask yourself if Dark Armor needs a buff.

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You can use IOs (“But I can't afford it! But the game isn't supposed to be balanced around IOs!”). You can take Acrobatics (“But I didn't want the Leaping power pool! But I shouldn't need a pool power to make up for a hole in my secondary!”). You can do fairly well with Hover (“I don't want to fly! You still get knocked for a loop! I shouldn't need a pool power!”).

Knockback is EASILY handled with one of the MANY tools available to you. If you don't WANT to use any of those tools, and so get knocked all over the place, I don't think anybody can or should help you. There's nothing wrong with a secondary with a hole in it, and this hole is so easily plugged that I can only roll my eyes at the complaints I've seen in the past.

For me personally, I typically level up on SOs and maybe some frankenslotting. On my Spines/Dark, I leveled up using Acrobatics because I was too obstinate to “overpay” for my knockback protection IO, and then was too lazy to respec once I had it. And it worked just fine until I finally got around to doing the respec.

I don't think Dark Armor needs a buff other than maybe fiddling a bit with Cloak of Fear. I think it's a great secondary with a lot of intelligence and depth to it.