Dark Armor boosts I'd like to see

Dark Armor is a great secondary if used correctly, but using it has a heavy price and I don't feel the mitigation in high stress situations is really that much better than other secondaries to warrant the cost. This is my attempt to get Castle to make some tweaks to the set:

~ Change the endurance cost of Dark Regeneration to something more reasonable. Charging over a third of a bar of Endurance for a self heal in a set that uses resists and heals for mitigation is harsh. I would like to see the base endurance cost reduced to 20.

As comparison, Reconstruction is only base 10 endurance. While it has a longer recharge and cannot benefit from healing from multiple foes, it has the benefit of not needed a hit check and it can be used between battles to recover health safely.

~ Now that Cloak of Fear can only affect minions with Fear, fix the stats on it. Not only is the cost too much for what it does, but the damage aura the set uses actually interferes with its mitigation. The endurance cost for this power should be the same as Weave which would bring it down to 0.33. The power should also be changed back to base accuracy of 75%.

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Moonlighter

50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD

First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563

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Dark Armor is a great secondary if used correctly, but using it has a heavy price and I don't feel the mitigation in high stress situations is really that much better than other secondaries to warrant the cost. This is my attempt to get Castle to make some tweaks to the set:

~ Change the endurance cost of Dark Regeneration to something more reasonable. Charging over a third of a bar of Endurance for a self heal in a set that uses resists and heals for mitigation is harsh. I would like to see the base endurance cost reduced to 20.

As comparison, Reconstruction is only base 10 endurance. While it has a longer recharge and cannot benefit from healing from multiple foes, it has the benefit of not needed a hit check and it can be used between battles to recover health safely.

~ Now that Cloak of Fear can only affect minions with Fear, fix the stats on it. Not only is the cost too much for what it does, but the damage aura the set uses actually interferes with its mitigation. The endurance cost for this power should be the same as Weave which would bring it down to 0.33. The power should also be changed back to base accuracy of 75%.

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A couple things COF never had a 75% acc it had a 95% base and was nerfed to it's current levels back in I4-I5 due to pvp and the mag was reduced from 3 to 2 and yes it's endurance does need adjusted

I would love for dark regen to get some more endurance knocked off it was 50 until they gave the 12.5end reduction back in I4 to appease the masses that

In fact Dark Armor has never been adjusted much from it's original state the only buff it received since I2 was stacking armor. Everything else has been nerfed the funny thing happen on the way to the nerfs everyone else got hammered harder than DA so it came out better because everyone was brought down to their level.

Now on improvements I want a mag of 4 kb added and 50% kb resistance added to /DA personally

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Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

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Dark Armor is a great secondary if used correctly, but using it has a heavy price and I don't feel the mitigation in high stress situations is really that much better than other secondaries to warrant the cost. This is my attempt to get Castle to make some tweaks to the set:

~ Change the endurance cost of Dark Regeneration to something more reasonable. Charging over a third of a bar of Endurance for a self heal in a set that uses resists and heals for mitigation is harsh. I would like to see the base endurance cost reduced to 20.

As comparison, Reconstruction is only base 10 endurance. While it has a longer recharge and cannot benefit from healing from multiple foes, it has the benefit of not needed a hit check and it can be used between battles to recover health safely.

~ Now that Cloak of Fear can only affect minions with Fear, fix the stats on it. Not only is the cost too much for what it does, but the damage aura the set uses actually interferes with its mitigation. The endurance cost for this power should be the same as Weave which would bring it down to 0.33. The power should also be changed back to base accuracy of 75%.

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A couple things COF never had a 75% acc it had a 95% base and was nerfed to it's current levels back in I4-I5 due to pvp and the mag was reduced from 3 to 2 and yes it's endurance does need adjusted

I would love for dark regen to get some more endurance knocked off it was 50 until they gave the 12.5end reduction back in I4 to appease the masses that

In fact Dark Armor has never been adjusted much from it's original state the only buff it received since I2 was stacking armor. Everything else has been nerfed the funny thing happen on the way to the nerfs everyone else got hammered harder than DA so it came out better because everyone was brought down to their level.

Now on improvements I want a mag of 4 kb added and 50% kb resistance added to /DA personally

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Blessing of the Zephyr removed my desire for KB since I'd be stacking multiples anyway. I don't think at this point that Castle is going to turn around on the whole /Fire and /Dark knockback issue. But if that happened then great.

Dark Regen is ridiculously over priced for a 30 second recharge heal and needs to be brought down. 20 end is still twice what Recon pays.

CoF is hurting in PvE. Don't get me wrong, I don't want people perma-feared in PvP either. I have no problem keeping it's PvP stats lower.

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Moonlighter

50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD

First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563

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~ Change the endurance cost of Dark Regeneration to something more reasonable. Charging over a third of a bar of Endurance for a self heal in a set that uses resists and heals for mitigation is harsh. I would like to see the base endurance cost reduced to 20.

As comparison, Reconstruction is only base 10 endurance. While it has a longer recharge and cannot benefit from healing from multiple foes, it has the benefit of not needed a hit check and it can be used between battles to recover health safely.

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I get where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. Reconstruction is a poor comparison as it's part of Regeneration, a set that has little mitigation beyond heals and regeneration. Dark Regeneration is a massive heal so it's expected it should have a massive cost. Never mind that players wishing to push the envelope can easily overcome the endurance costs of Dark Regeneration with IOs.

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~ Now that Cloak of Fear can only affect minions with Fear, fix the stats on it. Not only is the cost too much for what it does, but the damage aura the set uses actually interferes with its mitigation. The endurance cost for this power should be the same as Weave which would bring it down to 0.33. The power should also be changed back to base accuracy of 75%.

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In this area I mostly agree. CoF has excessively nerfed to function in a game environment that no longer exists today. IMHO, it should be adjusted for today's current game environment. I strongly recommend you PM Castle with regards to CoF. I have PM'd him numerous times, but since I suspect I am the only one who does so, it's not likely to ever reach any reasonable amount of attention.


I have posted on the subject before, but I feel both CoF and OG should be altered in some fashion so the actually compliment each other.

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IMO, while I agree that using DA is difficult, I do not think it is broken or needs fixing. Yes, it uses tons of endurance. It takes much more skill to create a DA that does not have end problems.

I have more respect for people who make a good DA than a person that can make a good regen. I also feel a ton more satisfied when my DA scrapper can out scrap other scrappers, and come out with a full bar of end.

That's all I have to say

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Your character does not have capped defense. Depending on your AT the cap is between 175% - 225%. Your defense is not teal in the combat window, it can go higher. STOP SAYING IT IS CAPPED! The correct term is Soft Cap.
I enjoy playing in Mids. I specialize in Melee Characters, other AT's usually bore me.

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Dark Armor is a great secondary if used correctly, but using it has a heavy price and I don't feel the mitigation in high stress situations is really that much better than other secondaries to warrant the cost. This is my attempt to get Castle to make some tweaks to the set:

~ Change the endurance cost of Dark Regeneration to something more reasonable. Charging over a third of a bar of Endurance for a self heal in a set that uses resists and heals for mitigation is harsh. I would like to see the base endurance cost reduced to 20.

As comparison, Reconstruction is only base 10 endurance. While it has a longer recharge and cannot benefit from healing from multiple foes, it has the benefit of not needed a hit check and it can be used between battles to recover health safely.

~ Now that Cloak of Fear can only affect minions with Fear, fix the stats on it. Not only is the cost too much for what it does, but the damage aura the set uses actually interferes with its mitigation. The endurance cost for this power should be the same as Weave which would bring it down to 0.33. The power should also be changed back to base accuracy of 75%.

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A couple things COF never had a 75% acc it had a 95% base and was nerfed to it's current levels back in I4-I5 due to pvp and the mag was reduced from 3 to 2 and yes it's endurance does need adjusted

I would love for dark regen to get some more endurance knocked off it was 50 until they gave the 12.5end reduction back in I4 to appease the masses that

In fact Dark Armor has never been adjusted much from it's original state the only buff it received since I2 was stacking armor. Everything else has been nerfed the funny thing happen on the way to the nerfs everyone else got hammered harder than DA so it came out better because everyone was brought down to their level.

Now on improvements I want a mag of 4 kb added and 50% kb resistance added to /DA personally

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Blessing of the Zephyr removed my desire for KB since I'd be stacking multiples anyway. I don't think at this point that Castle is going to turn around on the whole /Fire and /Dark knockback issue. But if that happened then great.

Dark Regen is ridiculously over priced for a 30 second recharge heal and needs to be brought down. 20 end is still twice what Recon pays.

CoF is hurting in PvE. Don't get me wrong, I don't want people perma-feared in PvP either. I have no problem keeping it's PvP stats lower.

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I was just trying to give a little history behind /da

I would love COF to have a base acc of 75% like it should the mag 2 had a greater impact on pvp than anything else but it was over nerfed and it has never been addressed

Then again how long did it take Invulnerability to get adjusted.

I would hope they could tweak some sets that need small love /da and lets not even talk about the poor EA brutes

Maybe one day the dev team will look at /da again

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Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

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~ Change the endurance cost of Dark Regeneration to something more reasonable. Charging over a third of a bar of Endurance for a self heal in a set that uses resists and heals for mitigation is harsh. I would like to see the base endurance cost reduced to 20.

As comparison, Reconstruction is only base 10 endurance. While it has a longer recharge and cannot benefit from healing from multiple foes, it has the benefit of not needed a hit check and it can be used between battles to recover health safely.

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Don't quote a single aspect of Reconstruction when you're asking for a significant improvement to a power you deem "comparable". First off, Dark Regen does damage whereas Recon doesn't. Recon is automatic whereas Dark Regen has to make a tohit check. Dark Regen heals per target hit within a 20 ft. radius whereas Recon is a static value that is actually less than the heal from Dark Regen's single heal. Dark Regen is on a 30 second recharge whereas Recon is on a 60 second recharge. The only area in which Recon is actually better than Dark Regen is tohit (which is pretty well balanced with the fact that Dark Regen goes damage) and endurance (which is pretty well balanced with the fact that Dark Regen doesn't need recharge slotting of any kind).

The entire point of Dark Regen is to be a power that has an entirely different slotting mentality than every other heal power in the game. Recon and Healing Flames are both slotted for Healing and Recharge. Dark Regen pretty much only needs some Acc slotting (2x) and End Redux (3x). If you actually slot it as such, it's still a good deal better than Recon because it will still heal for more unless you only hit a single target (and be able to heal to full with 4 targets whereas Recon will only pull you up 48.7%), recharge in pretty much the exact same amount of time (slightly faster actually), and it only costs a small amount more.

Dark Regen is a perfectly well balanced power, especially since it's within a mitigation heavy power set. One of the reasons why WP is generally viewed as so powerful is because, like DA, it combines respectable levels of damage mitigation with respectable levels of damage recovery.

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What I would like to see is some of that dual mode powers PVE mode vs PVP mode. Dark Regen is pretty much the suck in PVP. It would be nice to make the set more viable in PVP by having it clone healing flames in PVP rather than it's traditional PVE mechanic. It would actually make DA a possible good choice for PVP.

I don't mind the absence of -KB from the set, you can't have everything!

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To reply to the various Dark Regen comments.

You have good points, Dark Regen can be powerful. It wasn't my intention for people to get hung up on the Reconstruction comparison. However, I feel that people aren't giving the need to target enemies for the heal to work as a disadvantage. It negates the usefulness in PvP, it prevents the heal from being used between battles, and it means the heal is pretty bad against single EBs and AVs.

As for the argument that it does damage; I can't really give that 12 points of damage any serious consideration as an advantage.

I see why the heal requires a lot of End, I just think 34 is too much.

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Moonlighter

50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD

First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563

The Theft of Essence: Chance for +Endurance proc is awesome in Dark Regeneration - it checks for every target hit by Dark Regen, which in a large group can sometimes mean you'll actually gain endurance by using the power.

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let's face it, Dark Regen Blows in PVP. If you are fighting a dom or corruptor they are not going to come up and box with you to let you get your heal off.

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let's face it, Dark Regen Blows in PVP. If you are fighting a dom or corruptor they are not going to come up and box with you to let you get your heal off.

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Ok, but lets be serious. Dark Armor blows in PvP in general, not just because of DR. 2/3 of the set is rendered useless in PvP. If you're looking to have Dark Armor adjusted for PvP, they need to alter how 2/3 of set the functions in PvP, which isn't likely to happen.

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DA needs an across the board increase in resists and a simultaneous reduction in end cost of the toggles.

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DA needs an across the board increase in resists and a simultaneous reduction in end cost of the toggles.

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If you add "for PvP." I'd be in agreement. In PvE such a buff would be over powered. DA's resistance values are on par with other scrapper Secondaries.

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DA needs an across the board increase in resists and a simultaneous reduction in end cost of the toggles.

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Because Dark isn't awesome enough?

I'll agree with some tweaks to Cloak of Fear. That's about all I think could use any work. The damage aura has the same DPE as other damage auras, which is to say it's an absolute BARGAIN for the damage it does. Oppressive Gloom is cheap since it damages you. The other toggles look pretty normal. As for resists, just how high do you want them? They're already great.

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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

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DA needs an across the board increase in resists and a simultaneous reduction in end cost of the toggles.

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Because Dark isn't awesome enough?

I'll agree with some tweaks to Cloak of Fear. That's about all I think could use any work. The damage aura has the same DPE as other damage auras, which is to say it's an absolute BARGAIN for the damage it does. Oppressive Gloom is cheap since it damages you. The other toggles look pretty normal. As for resists, just how high do you want them? They're already great.

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I am still not giving up on KB protection for all melee toons even if it is mag 4 and 50% resistance. It makes no sense even with damage toggle that melee toons have to resort to IO and pool powers to get at least some kb protection. Those change alone would get threw 90% of the content and the sets would still get benefits from kb IO's

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Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA

Dark Armor is Awsome! You just have to work on that endurance thing... Geas of the kind ones, Atlas Medalion, Conserve Power, Dark Consumption, and Hasten will keep you in the blue going full boar even if you don't use bonus'. Maybe I just got too used to using Acrobatics... Its always just been a tight set to play.

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DA needs an across the board increase in resists and a simultaneous reduction in end cost of the toggles.

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Because Dark isn't awesome enough?

I'll agree with some tweaks to Cloak of Fear. That's about all I think could use any work. The damage aura has the same DPE as other damage auras, which is to say it's an absolute BARGAIN for the damage it does. Oppressive Gloom is cheap since it damages you. The other toggles look pretty normal. As for resists, just how high do you want them? They're already great.

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I am still not giving up on KB protection for all melee toons even if it is mag 4 and 50% resistance. It makes no sense even with damage toggle that melee toons have to resort to IO and pool powers to get at least some kb protection. Those change alone would get threw 90% of the content and the sets would still get benefits from kb IO's

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I guess there are so many ways to cover the knockback hole that I consider it a non-issue in practice. As Achilles' heels go, it's... well, not one.

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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

Just a quick note: The game is not supposed to be balanced around IOs, sets, or procs.

Take away IOs from Dark Armor, look at what you're left with, then ask yourself if Dark Armor needs a buff.

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Dark Armor is a great secondary if used correctly, but using it has a heavy price and I don't feel the mitigation in high stress situations is really that much better than other secondaries to warrant the cost. This is my attempt to get Castle to make some tweaks to the set:

[/ QUOTE ]In the theoretical guide How to get Castle to Make Changes, the very first thing that is written there in massive obsidian words that are wrought with fire and impressed upon the foreheads of the gods themselves is thus: PROVE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM. Seriously, this should be the first thing on anyone's list, but it really isn't. You gave an opening paragraph that provides some vague, airy-fairy commentary on how you don't 'think' it's worth it. You did no numbers. You proved nothing. There was no attempt on your part to make a case that changes should be made, you merely moved on to producing changes. You move on to a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

If you just wanna talk about cool what-if scenarios for dark armour, okay, sure, knock yourself out, but don't think it's going to convince Castle.

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on a tanker. numbers from mids. 3 level 50 common io's. no end reduction in toggles i see the following (with tough):

71% s/l
79% psi
47% fire/cold
31% energy/toxic
63% neg

1.73 end per second.

with oppressive gloom and cloak of fear going: 2.33 eps

compare that to maybe invuln slotted the same? with tough and weave, all passives 3 slot common resist io's level 50

90%+ s/l
0 psi
31% everything else

1.38 eps all toggles running (including invince)

what about willpower?

71% smash/lethal
43% psi
11% everything else

1.48 eps all toggles


on the resist shields alone, dark armor should have the end cost reduced. it shouldnt be able to run cloak of fear and og and be 1.50 eps, but it shouldnt be near 2.0 eps without either - not when it has the same smash/lethal as willpower, only slightly better psi, slightly better fire/cold, better the rest but doesnt have the defense to exotics, the regen and the recovery.

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Dark Armor is a great secondary if used correctly, but using it has a heavy price and I don't feel the mitigation in high stress situations is really that much better than other secondaries to warrant the cost. This is my attempt to get Castle to make some tweaks to the set:

[/ QUOTE ]In the theoretical guide How to get Castle to Make Changes, the very first thing that is written there in massive obsidian words that are wrought with fire and impressed upon the foreheads of the gods themselves is thus: PROVE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM. Seriously, this should be the first thing on anyone's list, but it really isn't. You gave an opening paragraph that provides some vague, airy-fairy commentary on how you don't 'think' it's worth it. You did no numbers. You proved nothing. There was no attempt on your part to make a case that changes should be made, you merely moved on to producing changes. You move on to a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

If you just wanna talk about cool what-if scenarios for dark armour, okay, sure, knock yourself out, but don't think it's going to convince Castle.

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Just send them a basket full of treats and goodies for them to munch on.

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on a tanker. numbers from mids. 3 level 50 common io's. no end reduction in toggles i see the following (with tough):

71% s/l
79% psi
47% fire/cold
31% energy/toxic
63% neg

1.73 end per second.

with oppressive gloom and cloak of fear going: 2.33 eps

compare that to maybe invuln slotted the same? with tough and weave, all passives 3 slot common resist io's level 50

90%+ s/l
0 psi
31% everything else

1.38 eps all toggles running (including invince)

what about willpower?

71% smash/lethal
43% psi
11% everything else

1.48 eps all toggles


on the resist shields alone, dark armor should have the end cost reduced. it shouldnt be able to run cloak of fear and og and be 1.50 eps, but it shouldnt be near 2.0 eps without either - not when it has the same smash/lethal as willpower, only slightly better psi, slightly better fire/cold, better the rest but doesnt have the defense to exotics, the regen and the recovery.

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Apples and oranges. Neither WP or Invuln have anything similar to cloak of fear or oppressive gloom or a damage aura. A big part of both of those sets is defense unlike dark which is mostly resitance. The closest thing to compare would be fire as it also has a damage aura and is resistance based. Now fire including tough and the damage arua will end up using 1.37 end per second before slotting endurance.

That gives (unslotted) tankers
45 S/L
30 Energy/Neg
90 Fire
20 Cold and toxic and
0 psi

Now take away the cloak of fear, oppressive gloom and cloak of darkness and you end up with just resists. The total drain is 1.47 end per second. So a total difference of .10 eps. This gets you the following.

45 S/L same
20 Energy -10
40 Neg +10 so we are still even
30 Fire -60
30 Cold +10 total -50
20 Toxic same so still at -50
50 Psi +50 so brings the total resist difference to 0.

The total amount of resistance is the same, it is just spread out a bit more than fire.

Now looking at the rest of the sets is where the difference is. Dark gets yet even more mitigation with cloak of fear and/or oppressive gloom as well as some defense boost with cloak of darkness. Since those are toggles and provide an extra mitigation when compared to another set with similar resistance, it is not a shock that they would cost more endurance. Oh almost forgot the big kicker, the best heal in the game is in dark and it pays for it with a huge end cost.

Fire gets a decent heal, end recovery solution and more damage but no more mitigation. I would guess the devs feel that those things even out.

The most I would hope for would be a total of 0.10 eps total reduction on the resistance and/or damage aura toggles.

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on a tanker. numbers from mids. 3 level 50 common io's. no end reduction in toggles i see the following (with tough):

71% s/l
79% psi
47% fire/cold
31% energy/toxic
63% neg

1.73 end per second.



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Sorry, but you're running more than just resistance shields to get that much endurance consumption. DE, OS, and MC cost 0.21 EPS each. Tough costs 0.33 EPS. Add them up and you only get 0.95 EPS. To come up with 1.73 EPS you would need to add Death Shroud (which is an attack) and Cloak of Darkness (which is a stealth, immob. protection, and a smidgen of defense).

Look, I'd love to see Dark Armor get some love as much as the next guy...probably more, but the endurance consumption on the entire set isn't what needs adjusting.

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PROVE THAT THERE IS A PROBLEM


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In thread after thread of "OG or CoF" the advice is 90% "skip CoF." I find overwhelming common opinion to be a good indication something should be examined. It's not always correct, mind you, but it's a good place to start.

If the current design of scrapper sets that they should be able to run their toggles and click their mitigation clickies when those recharge and be somewhat endurance competitive with other secondaries then Dark Armor is way behind if you are using Cloak of Fear, or even if you aren't way behind.

If, on the other hand, Dark Armor unlike other secondaries is not supposed to be able to run it's toggles and click it's heal together, and endurance is supposed to be the gating factor preventing it from running everything then that's an interesting piece of data as well. If I thought in total that Dark Armor was more powerful in total than other secondaries I could see this total end cost but I don't.

Plus any time someone posts numbers that show that running all the Dark Armor mitigation powers someone says "Apples and Oranges" because the toggles do different things.

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Seriously, this should be the first thing on anyone's list, but it really isn't. You gave an opening paragraph that provides some vague, airy-fairy commentary on how you don't 'think' it's worth it. You did no numbers. You proved nothing. There was no attempt on your part to make a case that changes should be made, you merely moved on to producing changes. You move on to a solution for a problem that doesn't exist.

If you just wanna talk about cool what-if scenarios for dark armour, okay, sure, knock yourself out, but don't think it's going to convince Castle.


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Well, before I compile the number people would have to understand and at least partially agree with opinions I have:

~ The secondaries should be able to run all their tools and have competitive endurance use.

~ With all its toggles running and hitting Dark Regen as it comes up Dark Armor isn't significantly better (with all things considered) than other secondaries. (Except /Fire).

~ Cloak of Fear is not generally used because it's actually statistics are bad. Most scrappers skip it for OG or just skip both.

If Dark Armor is considered the exception and the design is that it isn't supposed to be able to run all it's tools at the same time (a throw back to the Geko way of thinking) then that would be good to know.

If the general consensus is as above then it is pretty simple to compile numbers for all the toggles and for toggles + Dark Regen spam.

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Moonlighter

50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD

First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563