Werner

Also, earning the good stuff gives me something to DO with my 50s. It's a way of continuing to improve, to continue to put in effort to get rewards, very similar to the leveling up process itself.

Yeah, you'll be fine with Claws/Invuln. The scrapper combinations are very nicely balanced in PvE these days. There are better and worse choices for various objectives, but there are no clear winners and losers.

I have a theory that Katana/Shield can achieve the highest DPS with billions of influence spent, but I haven't worked it all out yet.

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And for the record, Katana is not a good PvP choice. Not enough burst damage.

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??? With Build Up and some hard hitters, Katana can put out some heavily front-loaded damage. What's your definition of burst? What DOES put out good burst damage if not Katana? (I'm no PvP guy, so if I'm being totally retarded, please forgive me.)

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Oh that's an actual challenge? I do that when I'm bored.

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Heh. Yeah. I think the RWZ challenge appeared around I9. Whenever it was, it was before a lot of the scrapper buffs and a lot of the good IOs. It was more along the lines of testing to failure with an occasional success, though I think my success rate at the time was actually around 80-90%.

As we've gotten better, it's gotten easier and easier. It still takes a good build and a good player, but yeah, a lot of people these days are probably doing it without even knowing it as they grind out merits or just go looking for tough bad guys to kill. For me, it's a box to put a checkmark in before moving on to bigger and better things like AVs. Not that AVs are that hard either for a good build and a good player, but I think they're a step up from the old RWZ challenge.

Still, grats. Easier isn't the same as easy.

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The latest version of what I'm using is here. It wasn't really designed for public consumption, but I've added a few things to try to make it a little more understandable. It's a half-done project to compare top end DPS from the various primaries using the same template for the builds.

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I really need to install Excel on my computer.
That little file there could probably cut my work in half...

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I use Open Office myself. I like Excel better, but I'm cheap. I just saved it as Excel since I figured more people would have it.

The latest version of what I'm using is here. It wasn't really designed for public consumption, but I've added a few things to try to make it a little more understandable. It's a half-done project to compare top end DPS from the various primaries using the same template for the builds.

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You didn't really think it was a regular RWZ challenge did you?

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You know, for a second there... yeah, I kinda did.

Solo a spawn of +4 Rikti that includes 3 bosses
- no temporary powers
- no inspirations
- no deaths (sometimes argued that there should be one death allowed if you have a rez power)
- all enemies must be aggro'd and able to attack you at all times (sometimes argued against from a "this is poor tactics" standpoint)
- corner pull allowed as an exception to the previous rule

The rules, though, are flexible. The point of the challenge isn't a yes/no test of your uberness, but rather a way of testing out and improving your build and your skills. As such, if you can't complete it using ALL the rules, try some variations that are a little simpler. What about two bosses? What if you take one small inspiration at a time? What about +3s instead of +4s? Similarly, if you can complete it easily using all the rules, feel free to add new ones. What about doing it while standing under a pylon? What about dragging an elite boss into the mix? What about doing it while not using one of your key powers? To me, it's about what you can learn, and what you can improve. So to me, the only reason to be a stickler for the rules is if you're bragging "I beat the RWZ challenge!" But even then, if you're clear about which rules you violated, and add a "sorta" qualifier to your initial statement, I don't see much problem.

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I used it for a steadfast mule on my shields character, and it's nice to have available when you're in a tough fight.

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Likewise. The build I'm planning is tighter on slots than it is on powers, so I'll be taking it to save a slot.

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Really? Are you not planning on going deep into a Mastery pool? Every Shield character I plan finds me swapping slots and powers. But I am not trying to kite out everything in Purple, either, which could be the issue.

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Hmmm, looks like I'm not taking an Epic at all. Wonder how I plan to manage endurance without Conserve Power. I need to take a closer look at the build now that I'm level 49.85 and getting close to decision making time. Looks like "only" two purple sets, both in attacks.

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I would love to do a scrapper STF on Virtue with my fire/regeneration character. Werner you've never done an STF before?

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I think I've done two task forces ever, and I'm not sure that one of them counts (soloing Minder Silos). Basically, I did one Katie once, back when I had more friends still playing this game, and one night everyone was on at once, and we had enough people to run a task force. I don't like pick up groups, or asking strangers to pad, so task forces are usually out of my reach. But a group of forum scrappers? Even if we fail, it sounds like fun.

I could do Virtue if more people want to do it there than on test, but how many times am I going to get assassinated in the PvP zones trying to pick up the nukes and the Shivans? *sigh* <wanders off muttering, "stupid temp powers">

No, I agree, we could easily see this from other secondaries, and some could probably pull it off more easily. But I found the idea of “you can't mount an appreciable amount of defense” to be a bit off. And what was being discussed was the “ceiling”, which to me includes being played by a good player. That also makes it a case where mere anecdote might be seen as evidence, since there are probably so few people playing at the ceiling for any given secondary.

Lest it be implied, I don't think that Claws/Regen is at the top end of top end performance. But the statement I was responding to seemed to imply that it wasn't very good, which I think is demonstrably false. See also Catwhoorg (hopefully I'm remembering his primary/secondary correctly and am not being an idiot here).

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The fact that I work everyday is messing up the time window for me. The best time I can come up with is 6pm central saturday or sunday. It can be this weekend or next weekend.

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I'm available either day this weekend, or Sunday next weekend.

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Your ceiling for [Claws/Regen] at level 50 is probably the lowest of all the secondaries on the pve side of the game. Simply because in pve defense is king, and you just can't mount an appreciable amount of defense.

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Counterpoint: Iggy Kamakaze did a Rikti War Zone challenge using only Swipe on his Claws/Regen.

Maybe he doesn't understand why someone wouldn't bid creep on a 50 million recipe? I don't get it either, but it happens all the time.

Tanker is more survivable, scrapper puts out more damage, both can get the job done.

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They did a study and asked people whether they'd rather make $80,000 a year (if everyone else made $100K) or $60,000 a year (if everyone else made $50K). Assume that prices do not change.

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Prices wouldn't change regardless of whether the entire population earned $80k vs. $50k? I call shenanigans.

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I suspect the actual study was just poorly represented. Of course that would change prices. So the numbers themselves are meaningless. All that matters for purchasing power and thus the distribution of goods are the ratios. In other words, I am indeed richer with the $60K per year (20% better off than everyone else) than the $80K per year (20% worse off than everyone else).

Mind you, people DO measure wealth in a very relative sense. I suppose I do too, but at the same time, I'm quite aware of how GREAT my life is compared to, say, a KING a few hundred years ago. My health and life expectancy are much better. My house, while modest in size, is air conditioned. It features several magical screens that bring me entertainments and knowledge undreamed of hundreds of years ago.

For that matter, I'm probably as well off in absolute terms as millionaires from thirty years ago – my Miata keeps pace with old Ferraris, my house is no mansion, but I'd happily trade all that space to keep the computer on my desk and my Internet access, the skies aren't filled with smog, Tivo and Netflix bring me entertainment on demand, my home theater is better than an old movie theater, and I am seriously living a life of luxury.

So yeah, much as I'd prefer to be a multi-millionaire in today's terms, I know that I have it good. I think people might be less unhappy if they could think more in absolute rather than relative terms in that regard, or at least be more global in their evaluation of relative wealth. But human nature is what it is. Our wealth is only measured by those who seem near enough to compare ourselves to.

OK, much as it's against my religion, I now have the Warburg nukes, Shivans and Amys on Werner on the test server.

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The when is the big issue. I've found myself squeezing in playtime as of late. I miss the days of running 4 TFs in a day. So many different time zones. So many different play time windows...

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Well, as the thread starter, I'd say just pick a time that's convenient for you. If it's a bad time for me personally, no biggie. There seems to be enough interest that you'll probably be able to put a team together whatever you pick, as long as it isn't some crazy time.

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Willpower, however, is very boring to me since it means zero interaction. Then again, to each his own.

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Why does that matter? In my opinion, not having to click anything on WP (other than SoW) is a great thing.

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Some of us like a more interactive secondary. What do you mean why does it matter? It's just what we like. No accounting for taste.

I'm all for no temps, no inspirations, even if it means we can't finish it. Isn't the glory in the attempt?

(Actually, I'm just lazy, and don't want to have to round up all the required temp powers. Inspirations would be fine since they rain from the sky.)

I currently have Assault and Maneuvers, and I could easily swap Focused Accuracy for Tactics (I was planning to anyway). I also spam the Achilles' Heel proc.

Yes, Soul Storm can be dodged. When I get lucky, I can survive her almost forever on my Dark Melee/Super Reflexes... but he's on Victory, and doesn't have a taunt anyway. Werner isn't soft-capped, and usually goes down against her fairly quickly.

Test server is fine too, and would let me bring Sergei (DM/SR) if he's a better choice than Werner (Katana/Regen). I think Werner would be a more team-friendly build, though, what with the Achilles' Heel procs.

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I used it for a steadfast mule on my shields character, and it's nice to have available when you're in a tough fight.

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Likewise. The build I'm planning is tighter on slots than it is on powers, so I'll be taking it to save a slot.

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1) Silver Mantis wiped us once. (I believe she was lvl53.)

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MAAAAAAANTIIIIIIIIISSSSS!!!!!! *SHAKES FIST*

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I guess what would be the most help, with all the regen and recovery in Regeneration, do I need to get Health and Stamina on top of the stuff in the other set?

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Need to? No. Even without Stamina, you have better endurance recovery than many or most scrappers, and Health helps you less than it does most scrappers due to the multiplicative effect of resistance and defense (which you don't have). Should you? I would. Extra regeneration never hurts, and if you want to be really strong, you're going to be running a whole lot of toggles and burning a whole lot of endurance.

I'm such a foreigner to temp powers that I've never gotten or used a shivan or a nuke. Guess I'd better stock up. *grumble*

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(in fact Hack-HS-Hack-HS is your ideal chain)

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Do you mean Hack>Dis>Hack>HS, because the minimum recharge on Headsplitter is 2.8 seconds and the animation time of Hack is 1.584 seconds.

The problem with the Hack>Dis>Hack>HS chain is that it's even more recharge intensive than Hack>Dis>HS, requiring 305% +recharge in Hack in order to be seamless.

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Yeah, but it does pretty well even when it isn't seamless, and you can take better advantage of procs in Hack. I suspect that which is better depends on IO slotting, which depends on the rest of your build, but I haven't looked at it closely.

(edit: Hmmm, I used the two Hack chain in my DPS comparison build (comparison not yet complete). I wonder why I don't have the other one for comparison purposes? I'll have to fix that.)