Walleye_
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Posts
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Joined
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In the land of the blind the one-eyed man is a cliche.
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Quote:In my limited experience on Virtue when it was populated by people actually PvPing (as opposed to the chatting under Atlas), that's what we got. Villains got the upper hand and slowly drove the heroes back towards their base. Heroes regrouped, figured some things out, pushed the villains back towards their base. It was fun, but never lasted more than about 30 minutes, and I didn't see people switching sides to balance it out very much. Again, just anecdotal reporting here, nothing quantitative. But I'm going to Freedom.Originally Posted by Supermax
You're right about the base camping. But that's what happens when there's literally 100 times more people PvP'ing....sides can be very uneven. It rarely stays that way for long though, because all it takes is a few people switching sides, and 10 minutes later the situation is totally different.
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My $0.02, I recently decided to give PvP a spin. Since I had a decent blaster at 50 already on Virtue (Sonic/EM), I kitted him out and spent some time in RV there. I had two decent teams out of about two weeks of looking. Lots of times during the day it was people standing around under the globe, fight clubbing and chatting, always a few Stalkers around looking for kills. A lot of melee toons, rarely saw another Blaster. Never saw anyone in Siren's or Warburg.
I'm stripping the Virtue toon and PLing a Psi/EM blaster on Freedom.
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Oh no, this isn't going to out me as the barrier sock-puppet that I am, is it????
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I'm entirely new to PvP, so I'm just asking the question, but is it really impossible to make a "solid" line up that has no fatal flaws? There needs to be some element of luck/guesswork in the roster matchup to have a decent contest?
Perhaps you could go something like tennis. Alternate serves, if you are tied after 6 you to tie breaker which is double blind. But if it is trivial to win when you get to counter-pick (aka "hold serve") the I guess rolling the dice is it.
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Apologies, I first posted this in the leader thread by accident. Here's the idea.
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Quote:An idea occurred to me, maybe consider it next time around. I've never seen the pick-counter-pick-fake-a-d/c &tc. but can surely imagine it sux. The double-blind is a fine solution, here's the one that occurred to me.Originally Posted by Daknah
Pretty sure this isnt an issue since it was a land slide in favor of double blind.
* Best of three matches
* One team gets a "home field" advantage, determined somehow. Maybe it is always the challenger from lower on the ladder, maybe it is a coin flip, maybe you alternate.
* Match 1, Visitor publishes a lineup in advance they must play. Home team confers, gets 5 minutes to log their toons and play.
* After Match 1, Home team gets 5 minutes to pick a lineup and publish. Visitor gets 5 minutes to pick a response, play the match.
* Match 3 is like Match 1.
Play best of 5 to diminish the home-field advantage a bit more. Skill is involved on both ends : Developing (and practicing) a lineup that has few "holes", isn't vulnerable, but has potential to win. The better you know your opponents roster and skills, the better you can pick something hard for them to counter. You can also observe the lineups that other teams field first in other challenges, and practice against them.
When you play Chess, you alternate playing White and Black. White gets the advantage and sets the tone. Black can play defensively and try for a draw, he can learn his opponents tendencies, &tc.
Just an idea that would let you have fixed start times, and it preserves the gamesmanship of pick-counter pick. Removes the chance that someone gets a bad double blind "We Fail" lineup.
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Quote:A bit of a <threadjack> here, but I've been lurking around for a couple weeks on these PvP boards and playing some zone PVP in RV on Virtue just for some basic experience, get some timing down, &tc.Originally Posted by CriticalKat
I will however agree that retention definitely needs to be a top priority goal. Sadly though I don't think people leaving is anything that events are going to stop. As long as the pvp in this game is subpar and the pvpr's feel neglected or screwed by the devs its going to be like that. Factor in the numbers of people that simply just get bored and that is a huge equation of people leaving constantly. That is going to happen no matter what kind of events get ran or not ran.
Speaking as a new PVPer in CoX (long time PvE here), I can't say that organized events would for sure keep my interest in PvP. I can say, however, that zone will probably not. I've had some fun but I'm looking forward to when I'm ready for the next step. Organized events seem about the best option for someone that has expectation of some reliably decent PvP, and wants to improve. Here's the basic options I can see:
1) Zone. 'nuff said.
2) Get someone to "DUAL MEH" (ad hoc arena events)
3) Organized events, teams and practice
I'm not even mentioning the F word here (Phiteklubbbbbing). [EDIT: I forgot to add the conclusion: 1) and 2) are a bit limited. The existence of 3) seems like where the fun would be.]
One other positive I could see about organized events: it would help with the impression that PvP as it stands now can't be fun. If quality people are out there organizing and playing events, it speaks for itself.
I didn't really know what to expect when I started reading the PvP boards here, there's lots of talk about it, people that just say lolpvp, but I wanted to see for myself. I've been impressed by a lot of the dialogue, particularly in these event organizing threads (this one and the ladder thread). It was also very easy to get some good build help to get me a setup I could start with.
</threadjack>
So... I'd like to see it happen.
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A question about the macskull build (thank for posting it):
If you were on a 60-month vet account, it seems like Combat Jumping or Hasten could be dropped (or both). Would you want to pickup Combat Training:Offensive over one of those, if you could? Anything else you'd add in?
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Thanks for the advice and builds, all. I've been spending a little time in RV on Virute (yes, yes, lol) figuring things out. The build seems good, I'm working on my timing, enjoying it.
I'm thinking about what to run on Freedom.
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Have you got a Spine/Regen build laying around ConFlict?
Thanks,
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"You're the worst pirate I've ever heard of!"
"Aaah, but you have heard of me."
Name that film!
[and now we return to the regularly scheduled PvP boards.]
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How about this question on a rad Defender for zone?
Psy > Sonic > Rad ?
Thanks,
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Thanks much, that's what I was looking for. Is the Winter's Gift not much use because the 20% doesn't help enough, or because there's not many people slowing out there?
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There is a data link at the top of the post, click it and you'll download the .mxd build from cohplanner directly. Below is a data chunk as well. I have a set of Apocs on hand, was thinking about putting them in Shriek and adding the Devastation hold proc.
Thanks,
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| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1417;705;1410;HEX;|
|78DA9D945B53126118C7DF450E82202020288A2079407395B B0E174D99CDE4C88C2|
|3E64D16ADB0836BB4BB03EB4C76D2EAD66E9AA6E358D9F133 347D952EFA18DDD173|
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|B86|
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I'm going spec a toon for PvP and give it a spin. I've got an L50 Sonic/EM blaster and from reading threads here that should be allright to give it a go. Psy/EM gets better reviews but I'd like to get something going now and see if it is any fun. I'll think about other sets later. From the reading, the buff/debuff/control sets have really been leveled so I'll be curious to see what people are doing with them.
I'm looking for a basic, cheap build. I cribbed from the Psy/EM builds by macskull & psyrene (thanks), and came up with this. I'll probably start in RV and go from there.
Comments appreciated.
/w
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Sonic/EM Blaster
Level 1: Shriek -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(9), Apoc-Dam%(11), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 1: Power Thrust -- KinCrsh-Dmg/KB(A), KinCrsh-Acc/KB(3), KinCrsh-Rchg/KB(3), KinCrsh-Rechg/EndRdx(5), KinCrsh-Dmg/EndRdx/KB(5), KinCrsh-Acc/Dmg/KB(7)
Level 2: Scream -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(13), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17)
Level 4: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(17), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(19), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(19), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(21)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB(A), Zephyr-ResKB(25), Winter-ResSlow(42)
Level 8: Shout -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/EndRdx(29), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Range-I(34)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 12: Amplify -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(21), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(23), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(23), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(25)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), QckFt-EndRdx/RunSpd(34)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(29)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(37), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(37), Efficacy-EndMod(37), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(39)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), SprngFt-EndRdx/Jump(36)
Level 24: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A), KBDist-I(42)
Level 26: Screech -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(39), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(39), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(40), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Tactics -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(33), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(40)
Level 32: Vengeance -- Krma-ResKB(A)
Level 35: Boost Range -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), EndRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Total Focus -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(43), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Snow Storm -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- Krma-ResKB(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(45), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(45), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(46), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Hoarfrost -- S'fstPrt-ResKB(A), Numna-Heal(48), Numna-Heal/Rchg(48), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(50), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50) -
Quote:Yes, I think you're right... short-recoil does cover the "toggle-lock" operation on the Luger. Not so different from the others when you get down to it. Just three!Originally Posted by docbuzzard
Do you know if they actually separate those from the other short recoil operation guns or not? Considering how different short recoil is between a 1911 and a Hi Power (to name 2 Browning guns), I could see the short recoil type being broad enough to cover it.
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Further into the realm of "more info than is really necessary", but there is a fourth type of semi-automatic pistol action which was very popular in its day. The German Luger P08 uses a "toggle-locked" operation to disconnect the barrel from the rest of the toggle-assembly (for lack of a better term) as it recoils. I don't know of any other pistols that use it but it was very successful on the Lugers.
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Quote:Not so! The winter event ought to provide the opportunity to visit those Red Caps and giant MOOOOOOSE.Originally Posted by Geoff_NA
I just wish my villains could head to Croatoa for major gnome smackdown action. Guess I'll have to wait for Rogue.
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Quote:I've spent some quality time with the Cimerorans on the wall, they really are nice people once you get to know them. Rilly. For quite some time, long before I16, I've had informal observations in my head and anecdotal conversations with friends along the lines of "Man, this toon just doesn't get many recipes," or "today was a bad day." Knowing a little bit about statistics and computer algorithms for generating pseudo-random numbers, it always felt far too regular to be functioning as a plain old probability. When you are like 20 std devs out, you start to scratch your head.Originally Posted by Synapse
Not this either. I think it would be best if Pohsyb explained it. Sounds like an old bug that appeared to somehow manifest in I16.
But hey, its a game, I never counted the bodies or dug around to find out what the expected rate was. So to hear it is an old bug doesn't surprise me, maybe I was noticing it some time ago.
In any case, it'll be great to see it squashed. I'm out of town for two weeks, hopefully it'll be in test for a bit already when I get back.
Great game, Synapse and everyone at NC that makes it go. I16 has been a very fun issue. Thanks.
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Yaaaar! Great news. Thanks to the hard work of the development team, the players and that basketful of kittens by the door.
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That is great, Canis, I'm interested in finding cases where it is looking correct, to give some clues. I've been having a very hard time coming up with them on my toons. Keep it up if you can on that toon for a few more runs.
I'm suspecting there may be a "good mode" and a "bad mode", so if you suddenly drop into bad rates for one mission, note that. Keep your logs separate as individual missions, so you can later calculate stats on the "good ones" and "bad ones" separately.
As you suggest, lumped together you might not see the problem, just being a little low on the probability side, which wouldn't jump out.
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Quote:I roasted a lot of Council on my L50 Troller. It was some of the lowest rates I've seen.Originally Posted by cDc1979
... Council in particular seem to drop more often.
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Research into the idea that lag is invovled should take into account that bad numbers show up on Test reliably. See Top Doc and others.
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I finally got a situation with some regular results, I'm going to pursue it a bit. My 50s were all coming up zip (solo brute, solo troller, 6-person LGTF with a def), but there had been that one mission on my brute that showed regular drop rates. It was from an old contact that had been open.
A friend on his PB did some epic tanking on the LGTF, so I pulled out my dusty L27 peacebringer and ran two Sunstorm missions solo. No changes to the diff settings, this guy hasn't done anything in I16. He killerates very slowly, so I don't have a huge amount of data, but for 70 minion equivalents he got 4 recipes and 2 salvage. Quite the ratio. (I should emphasize that this is not a large enough sample to go anywhere with yet, but it is enough to give me a glimmer of hope.)
My hunch/guess/suspicion is that it has something to do with the toon/mission interaction. I believe it shows up in streetsweeping as well, altho I haven't confirmed that myself, so maybe something kind of persistent for a particular toon? Be interesting to figure out if one bad toon can bork an entire team?
[EDIT: I should also add, another of my hunch/guess/suspicions is that it doesn't have to do with the values you've selected in the SRSLY settings, exactly. I suspect if you got a mission/toon setup with regular drop rates and you adjusted your settings you would continue to get the same rates you had been. Just a guess, and I've no way to test it yet.]
Those are just idle questions, and those situation are all more complicated. The best test case is the simplest one where you can repeat it. If my PB continues to show good drop rates I'll pack up the info and send it off. Here's hoping.
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This morning I ran 1st mish from Abyss (game contact, no Ouro) 3 times. +0/6x/yes/no (as all my testing has been). It isn't quite enough kills as I would like for more reliable numbers, but 735 min equivalents is pretty good. The results on recipe drops were uniformly abysmal (Archie's report at the bottom).
Just some hunches and guesses, I don't think it is map related. I do think it is going to be tricky to track down. I believe the "drop code" hasn't changed, but obviously (to me, and many here any way), the amount of recipes Toons are getting certainly has changed.
Other code has changed, it is perhaps interfering with the rewards related delivery, recipe only, in an unanticipated way. There also may be some interaction between the live database, the server environment there, and a host of other factors that are not the drop code itself. But the end result is toons aren't getting rewards.
It'll take some dedicated research to find and fix. I do hope some progress happens soon-ish.
/w
Code:Type DropRate Drops Expected Mobs -------------------------------------------------------- Pool A 1.22% 9 12-29 735 minion equivalents Salvage 8.78% 57 39-66 649 minion equivalents -------------------------------------------------------- (Table excludes mobs of unknown rank and their drops.) (1 in 20 runs will be outside the expected range.) 547 rewarding mobs defeated 29 bosses and elite bosses 134 lieutenants 380 minions 4 underlings (XP only) 0 pets and 7 greys