VanCorp

Honestly? Nothing.

The wife and I played them before departing in April 2010, and have played some since returning.

Yeah, sometimes it is hard to find a good storyline. Sometimes, we find some really good ones. Heck, we don't like every storyline, mission, villain, or set-up the Devs have created, either.

But we have fun playing through AE, and we'll keep doing them on the side.

Well, after being here for roughly 6 years before departing last April (due to a new baby and heavy workload with my company), the Going Rogue sale at Steam convinced the wife and I to return and see how the game is now. Life has gotten to the point we can spare a little time for an MMO again, and CoH was always our favorite.

While I've voiced my opinion of what the Devs are doing with the Incarmate system in another thread (we're less than thrilled with it), the rest of the new additions we like. Not sure how much we'll participate in Incarnate, but it wasn't here the last time we played, so we'll just ignore it if we ultimately choose to, sidekick down, roll more Alts, play Architect stories, and so forth.

Still plenty of options.

Overall, happy to be back, and back on Virtue. Look forward to meeting some new friends in-game.

I have to agree with Zortel.

After leaving in April 2010, I came back today thanks to the GR sale on Steam. Couldn't pass-up upgrading my account AND getting a month of play time for the price of just a normal month of play time.

CoH will always be the MMO where I've spent the most time, and have the fondest memories.

Will it keep me beyond June 28, 2011 with the Incarnate system?

I don't know. Still digesting it all. What I will say, though, is that back when I played WoW-- I was not a raider. Tried it, didn't enjoy it, left the game and never looked back because so much was tied to the raid system.

If Paragon Studios is going that way with the Incarmate system, then sadly my most loved MMO will join the others in the bin of: "don't play anymore."

We'll see how I feel in the next 30 days.

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The Carnies, Domi and her crew... yes there are some 'adult' themes going on.

Do people petition the dev content? Apparently not, since it's not changed in 4-5 years.

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Actually, about 2 years ago I was aware of a rather massive group that DID petition such Dev content. No, I was not a part of them, but did get to read some of the replies C.S. sent back since I did know the yahoos.

Basically, Cryptic/NCSoft at the time pretty much shrugged it off.

So, I'm certain that it's not that the Dev content never gets petitioned, just that they aren't about to cave in.

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I suspect most people who defend the MA on the grounds of the "new content" it delivers, are nothing more than people who want to be PL'ed through the whole game. They simply can't be honest about this, or the devs would know how really badly they screwed the pooch with this one.

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Or, perhaps, like the wife and I, they have been here for too many years and are bored to tears with:

1) The same Dev created content to just keep running over and over again, when they've already run it over and over again.

2) The slow-trickle (at best) that Dev created storyline and mission updates have become.

3) Have actually taken the time to search, and found many good storyarcs in the MA. Matter of fact, I've also gotten to know many of the authors and made many new Global friends as a result.

The problem is, the Farming base is the most vocal base in the game when it comes to MA. However, being the most vocal does not mean being the largest.

As far as MA being all Farm and PL missions . . . the wife and I have already played over 500 MA arcs (we keep a list, along with what star rating we gave the I.D., so we know what to recommend and not recommend to friends), and have somehow seemed to avoid farm missions.

Matter of fact, the lowest star we have awarded yet is a 3, and that usually happens when people love NPCs that spam web-grenade.

The only thing I can say is that the wife and I have multiple level 50's. Because the Dev created content is a slow trickle at best at seeing updates and expansions (we are refering to the story-driven content and missions you mention), the wife and I do exclusively MA content nowadays. We don't do it to PL (mostly it's with our 50's, who we missed playing), we don't do it to farm. We actually search for misisons/stories that sound interesting, make an ID list, play through it, rinse, repeat.

That said, should they ever limit the amount of time spent in MA, that will cancel all 3 of my household's account (me, wife, son), and we'll play only "the other MMO" exclusively, instead of both.

MA is what is keeping us here. It's fresh. We can do stories and fight Mobs never encountered before. With the Dev created content having become stale for us, and rarely updated with any consistency in Issues, the Dev created storylines just don't keep us here anymore, right now. We've seen them. Ad nauseum. Solo, on teams, on SG teams, and on PUGs. Over and over and over and over again.

If the Devs ever pull a stunt like that (and I doubt they will, just taking it from your list), then they better start putting out new story content more than once every 3 issues.

Other than that, I agree with your pros and cons, and the other two proposed fixes.

My wife and I, loathing the low Villain zones, created new villains today and did MA today from lvl 2 through lvl 14.

To be honest, it was a welcomed change. Our low-levels did fine in the missions, we found some really good storylines, some creative uses of Maps and Mobs, and actually enjoyed the red-side for a change by . . . well . . . avoiding actually playing the red-side.

Kind of ironic.

The problem is, the rating system is nothing more than an opinion. Someone's opinion of the Arc might be a 5 star opinion, whereas the next guy might think it a 2 star Arc, and you might consider it a 4 star arc.

It's the same as movie critics and any other type of review process. It isn't a hard and concrete system. No review system ever will be because of its very nature.

Even with the questions you propose, they come down to the opinions of the person answering them. For example, I might answer:

Does the arc live up to as advertised: Yes

Is the arc a challenge: Yes

Was the arc fun: Yes

Was the story griping: Yes

I felt it was challenging. But maybe I have a weak-slotted character or am just a bad or inexperienced player with my character.

I thought it did as advertised.

I found it fun, and with a gripping story.


You might answer:

Does the arc live up to as advertised: No

Is the arc a challenge: No

Was the arc fun: Yes

Was the story griping: No


You didn't feel it did as advertised. Maybe the way it was written gave you an expectation of X and it delivered somewhere between W and X.

You didn't find it a challenge. Maybe you are a superb player, easily able to chain your attacks, watch your pulls, and are slotted well.

You found it fun, but felt the story was just so-so.

So, I fail to see how altering the rating system will change anything. Our opinions still vary based upon personal expectations, likes and dislikes, knowing our characters in combat, et cetera. Mine still gives the eqivilent of 5 stars, yours probably about 2 stars. A huge difference in opinion.

The only way to stop the issues some are having with it is to remove it entirely and not let us rate a story.

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So, after a few recommendations from my wife (basically it was like CHANGE THEM or else), I toned down my Vampire Bunnies so they would use a much more docile power-set combination. However, it seems like my "work" was not yet done.

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I checked the editor and could not see any way to tone-down the difficulty of the End-Boss, so instead, I did the only fair thing I could do, which was to put a secret-Ally in the mission! It is now up to the player whether they want to work towards getting that secret-Ally to come and help them against the End-Boss, or not.

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That's not a bad idea. (Runs to AE to edit) I've got an Ally in the 2nd mish...but it's a mission goal...I should change that to "optional".

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I had to do the same thing yesterday. The Boss, though not specifically chosen to be super-tough (after all, I WANT the Heroes to win the day when they play it) just became a pain-in-the-[censored] to balance for different ATs and Powersets.

So, I did the ally thing to work around it.

As someone that professionally publishes RPGs and Adventures for a living (okay, it doesn't support a living, the RPG industry), the OP's advice is good.

It's a key factor I always keep in mind when creating, MA included. The player-characters are the main stars. The story is about them being in the spotlight. And the players, themselves, should be entertained.

This also means balanced missions (not a room of Bosses on load-in just so the villains can win and the players can be pissed off), non-aggrevating objectives (a clear-all on a large, maze-like map was not fun even when Cryptic/NCSoft did it), and a good story that makes them feel like they made a difference, stopped the villains, and did some good at the end.

At first I thought I would dislike the restrictions on MA. But to be honest, I have to say I really like MA 1.0. Yes, there are restrictions, but those restrictions have just made me be a little more creative in working within them.

Sure, I've had to rethink a few NPC concepts, too. No biggie for me, I just did some storyarc redesign, found different ways to handle it, and still got my story across in what I hope is a balanced and fun way for other players.

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<QR>

Am I the only one who would actually want this? Because it is 8 different kinds of awesome. I mean, as long as I can keep regular sounds, of course.

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I can tell you I wouldn't. All I would need is my mates on a TF boggled down with word-effects filling the screen.

Sure, I'll take visual sounds. Remove debt.

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Oh, wow.

You got me.

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Same. I was already on my way to flame-fest the Devs!

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Oh my dear lord I want this, yes it is a april fool's joke but as god as my witness if you are older and have ever enjoyed the simplistic beauty of watching Adam West and Cesar Romero duke it out, then this is a better feature than a power custimazation. And to you nay says I say Biff, Bam, pew, Pow

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Oh good god, no. I well remember Adam West's Batman . . . PLEASE leave that one in the past!

Great to hear!

I would like to thank NCSoft for making game content no longer worth the time risk. Read: I won't ever touch it again.

No longer will I do TF's, where people logging out and forgetting to /quit the TF will now make it more difficult for the remaining team to finish it (for the badge, drop, et cetera).

Too often am I in a TF (since I have to majority PUG them) and have people quit due to dinner, kids, et cetera by simply logging out. Now, we run a serious chance of the time being wasted and us being unable to finish them, unless they also remember to /quit the TF (or simply have the common decency to do so).

Looks like TFs are for pre-mades, now.

Well, for all that [censored], I can just return to WoW and play a game with better vistas, in order to be forced to rely on pre-mades not to get screwed.

Great job, NCSoft! You make it easier to leave the game and only come back when you have the latest "Flavor" live. I.e. to play and get bored with the newest Issue.

Hopefully Jack and Cryptic will learn from this BS, too.

Take care.

The only time I have ever used gamecards was when I could find the 60 day CoV cards at CompUSA for $20.

Of course, there are about 3-dozen reasons why CompUSA could not compete and are now gone, but that's another thread.

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As I sit here to wait for the servers to come back up, it struck me that I could write a little post about Sister Flame.

Sister Flame is the online handle of my middle daughter, currently six years old. She's been playing City of Heroes since she was 4 and 1/2. It was only over the last year we began to team together with my two accounts and have a lot of fun. I thought I let you know what Sister Flame has learned from CoX.

(1) Flame Learned To Read

At the tender age of five, I let Flame play on my second account on my laptop beside me. For a while, I had to tell her what the train destiantions were, what the NPCs were saying and what the villains name were.

It was only mere months before Flame didn't need my help anymore. We were playing one summer evening and I noticed that she wasn't asking me to read things. I looked over at her screen and watched her for a bit. I was intrigued she knew where to go.

"Need any help reading, honey?" I asked.

"Nope. I can read nope. That says Atlas Park and that says Steel Canyon. Those are Clockworks, but I like calling them Clickey Clacks." she replied quite happilly.

Her teacher was quite surprised at the headstart she had on her reading skills. When I informed the teacher that Flame's headstart was the result of playing a superhero online game, I got the weirdest look. Oh well.

Now, at six, I can hear Flame reading slowly over the mission text and the NPC dialogue. She cannot type yet, but if we get on a team together, I usually do the talking for both of us.

(2) Attitude Matters; Not Age.

From time to time, I get a little impatient with my daughters. I do recall the one evening I was unwell, but Flame wanted to play CoH and wanted to get on a big team.

"I'm too sick to play, so you'll have to do it by yourself." I told her, thinking that she'd never figure it out or get booted quickly if she did get invited to a team.

I laid down on the bed and closed my eyes to rest. Twenty minutes later, I stretched and asked Flame how she was doing.

"Good. I am in a big team." she told me.

"Oh yeah?" I asked.

"Yep. People keep joinging, but I think they're playing soccer." she says.

"Why is that?"

"I keep seeing the word 'kick'."

I rolled off the bed and scrolled back through the chat. Apart from several comments about Flame's excellent control and attack with her Fire Blaster, I see several conversations/arguments with some idiots who joined the team and did something really stupid. Most of them wound up being kicked by the leader. I also notice that every so often, Flame has written 'ty'.

"What's the 'ty' for?" I asked.

"Thank you. You type it sometimes. Everytime I see 'Flame', I type it. They like it."

I watched Flame play for another twenty minutes. No one in the group had a clue to her age and she played her role as any good team member should: waiting for 'Go' or 'Ready' before attacking, saving her Rain of Fire for large groups and giving inspirations to thoes that needed it.

Finally, I had to type a message for Flame.

"Thank you all for the team. This is Flame's dad. She has to get up for Grade 1 tomorrow and needs to go to bed. She says you were all great."

I still love typing that message and watching the responses. Most are 'lol' or 'what?!'. One time, a player typed 'Wow. I wonder if my poodle could play.'. All in good fun.

(3) Playing Coh Is Just Like Playing House a.k.a Imagination Is Power.

Flame has always had a decent imagination, but it has improved a lot since she has been playing Coh. She likes to spin stories about her toons and give them a backstory. This has translated well to her schoolwork when she has been asked to do creative writing assignments. She has also developed a healthy curiousity into some of the groups in CoH. Some of the things she has asked me are:

"Why do Skulls hang out in Perez Park?"

"How come the Clockworks don't attack cars or make nasty cars to attack people?"

"Why are Trolls green?"

"Where do the Outcasts get their power?"

Now, she makes up toons with funny names (to us anyways), but good backgrounds. Among some of her mains are Takes Care Of Pets (A MM with two mercenaries: Cat, Dog), Takes Care Of Bats (A PB with Bat Wings) and of course, Sister Flame (a Fire Blaster with her partner, Brother Frost [me]).

So, if you ever run across a Fire Blaster named Sister Flame on Freedom, chances are its my daughter havign fun, but learning many things at the same time. Feel free to team with her, but don't be a "poopyhead" (her words, not mind).

Ciao!

P.S. She is working on her typing skills, so if you see her say "Go", "Go", "Go" about twenty times, don't worry. It's only 1 of about 100 words she can spell.

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Great post. Very similar to my own experiences with my [now] 9 and 7 year olds when they started playing a couple of years ago (and still do).

It's also why I am a huge supporter of "Families Who Game Together!" (Even in our own PnP RPG Publishing company).

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Has anyone seen any detail on the price?

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We will probably never get a handle on the price paid from NCsoft for Cryptic.

I'm not going to put down any numbers, but I did a rough calc of how much revenue CoH/V generates from its player base over one year. I think it was probably more than that (2x operating revenue + goodwill is my rough guide for valuing what a business is worth) which adds up to a nice chunk of change.

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Actually, since NCSoft is a publicly traded company . . . there are ways to find out.

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The past cases a lot of people are citing, involving SOE, are different. In two of these cases, SOE has bought a floundering game, and in the case of Vanguard, on the brink of death.

For Vanguard, the game was already a terrible mess. SOE's involvment did nothing but give the game chance to be published, as word is Microsoft wanted to end it before it was released. SOE then consumed the game.

As I understand it, the fundamental chages for SWG were implemented at the behest of LucasArts, who thought thier game should be doing a helluva lot better than it was. The result was an abomination, for which both companies share the blame, if my understanding is correct.

I do not know enough about the Matrix Online to comment, but I do know it had a very, very small playerbase, much less than that of City of Heroes. I have heard that SOE had to buy the Matrix Online to get the lisence for the DC Comics MMO that they want to develop, but I do not know if there is any truth to that claim.

The fundamental difference here is that City of Heroes is not a dying game. It is doing rather well (WoW is an abberation, a fluke, and not something any MMO's subscriber base ought to be compared to). City of Heroes is NCSoft's most successful game in North America and Europe, with about 1.5x the North American and European subscribers of thier next most popular game, Lineage II, and ~110,000 or so more than Lineage. And I'm willing to bet dollars to donuts that the overwhelming majority of Co* players wouldn't touch Lineage or Lineage II with a fifteen foot pole.

I don't think we have much to worry about; I don't think NCSoft is that stupid. Afterall, they're not SOE. :P

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Well, I never compared NCSoft to SOE. I can't see where any developer would be as stupid as to follow SOE's mistakes . . which even they admitted was a major blunder in regards to SWG.

I never prophesized sweeping changes to CoH. My outlook is a slight change to the business model: Free Issues alongside pay-for-updates (be they $30 expansions or $10 "Adventure Packs") after the 6-12 month "coax the playerbase transition". Because I see it as fundamental to sustaining the game if they are truly going to maintain an expanded staff, increased marketing, faster content development, et cetera. That, or gain a sunstantial amount of consistent, paying, new subscribers. Which I'm not sure is going to happen in today's MMO market for a 3+ year old game. Especially in a fantasy-genre dominated matrket, with new choices in that regard already on the near horizon.


In that regard, I just warned people to consider that possibility instead of relying solely on the "glitz and glammor" that is being handed out by corporate (which is NCSoft, Forum Representatives, Developer Interviews, et cetera), so no one feels slighted at the end. I mean, come on . . . people are feeling slighted over the CoH or CoV give-away they are doing (I don't, but just look around). You just wait until a change (even the slight one I predict) in business happens and how people will outrage.

Like I said . . . if the current "give it all away for free 3x a year" model worked, then why did Cryptic constantly cite resource issues?

Obviously, it didn't work for consistent, sustained, long-term product growth.

As for the Cryptic/NCSoft/Microsoft CoX/MUO conflict of interest . . . unless there is an official press release or interview that stated that, I don't buy it. Microsoft knew Cryptic had CoX when they made the deal for them to develop MUO for the already signed deal with Marvel. NCSoft has known about MUO for how long? MUO is still how long away from launch? And obviously, CoX people weren't also working on MUO, as the CoX Devs are now at NCSoft.

So, the timing of this makes me seriously doubt it was any sort of "conflict of interest".

I'm either expecting to hear a buyout from Microsoft on Cryptic Studios announcement in the near future, or something else entirely. But a Conflict of Interest reason makes zero excuse for the timing.

First of all (and any forum being what it is, I know this will miss some of us) try to read my entire post before assuming I am crying DOOOOOOOM or speaking negatively about this management change.

Folks, this all sounds good on what is being said, but be careful on what is not being said.

Bigger Issue Updates: This would be great, and I feel it’ll happen for the first couple of Issues as they make sure players are comfortable with the transition, but I don’t expect it to last. I expect the Free Updates to continue, but I also expect that a lot of the changes we have come to like: multiple powersets, new zones, et cetera, are going to eventually move to a pay-for expansion or (as EQ2 called it) “Adventure Pack” kind of deal; and the Free Updates might not be as “awe inspiring” as people are right now expecting. The reason being: unless NCSoft sees enough of an influx of steady, new subscribers, such things (including the expanded staff) have to be paid for somehow. And unlike a privately owned company (like Cryptic) NCSoft has shareholders and investors to answer to on a public scale.

My Feelings on it: I’ve been playing MMOs since 1998 and, outside of CoH to date, am used to the pay-to-add deal on extra content. I have no problem with that, and like in any game will buy-to-add what I feel is useful to “me”. I just foresee a bunch of angry playerbase when/IF this happens because they weren’t looking at the possibility and feel slighted.


More Marketing/Increased Player Base: I’m all for more players. Just remember that more players mean more potential idiots, and not necessarily the same community we have come to know.

My Feelings on it: Hey, I played WoW for 18 months. I know how to /ignore idiots when needed. Just, again, I see a future outcry from certain factions of the playerbase should NCSoft prove successful in expanding the playerbase.


Development of PvP, Base Raids, Invention/Loot, et cetera: No doubt these aspects will be expanded as well, as it does expand to a broader range than the current CoH does.

My Feelings on it: I see this as a good thing. I’m not much of a PvP’er as far as that goes (example: love some of the WoW Battlegrounds, and liked the LoTRO Monster versus Player style of PvP, but am not a true PvP’er), and feel the same about the Base Raiding, deeper Invention, et cetera. But, again, to expand the playerbase, the player content and multiple styles-of-play need to be expanded as well.


So, whether they expand PvP, Base Raids, Invention/Loot, or begin the pay-to-add Updates alongside the Free Issues, I don’t have a personal issue with it.

My warning is, expect “some” business change within the next 12 months or so. View it as necessary if we are going to actually have a bigger staff, and an improved and expanded gaming experience. View it as a necessary evil to get all things we want into the game, and to gain it more exposure (unless NCSoft is in the practice of printing its own money, but I think Blizzard and the U.S. Government have the lock on that, lol). If the current business model was effective as a long-term growth strategy, Cryptic would not have had “CoH Resource” troubles as they had, even with slicing the revenue pie with NCSoft. So, yes, business changes are going to have to be made, I am certain. And Matt “Positron” Miller doesn’t handle that aspect, let’s not forget, that falls to the decisions of NCSoft Corporate and finances.

Because I would hate to see the forums in flames should the business model change slightly, and they feel slighted because they didn’t realize the possible necessity of it when all the other “cool” things were hyped by NCSoft Corporate and its employees (new or otherwise) during the transition.

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My dream is that this takeover means that NCSoft are now free to talk to DC Comics and release a new paid expansion that joins the Paragon universe to the DC Comic's universe through Portal Corp.

Imagine if the choice at character creation was to start in Metropolis or Gotham City.... drool....

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You might want to go tell SOE about that wish. After all, they have the rights to DC Online.

Imagine it now . . . grind your toon through random, useless quests and unlock Kryptonian. So, 2 years later it can be a starting "class" in the "revamped DC Online Experience".