Unthing

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I think you've put it perfectly...after getting a stalker up to level 9 in beta, I got a bit fed up, because mobs of 3 or 4 plus got me badly. I didn't have AS or placate then, which might have explained it...but I don't think they can deal with numbers soloing.

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I believe they are exactly the same as scrappers defensively ( power wise ) but have lower hp. In my opinion if you don't take AS at lvl 6 you are missing out of the whole point of the Stalker. Placate is not so important, but it increases the number of times you can use AS in combat.

My beta character was a Ninja Blade/SR stalker. I the main mistake I made for him was not getting the quick attack at level 2, but getting the cone instead. The thing that makes Darkthing work is that he got the 2 first attacks ( Lunge is good, Barb Swipe is not the pile of poo it was in I3 and I4 due to much faster animation times ). Having an usable attack chain early on helps a great deal.

The other thing is luckily when soloing you never need to deal with more than 4 enemies in a spawn, providing you go for the odd numbered difficulties. 3 or 4 enemies are certainly possible.

Herostats to the rescue!!!

So, after testing in Herostats against even level Buttonmen with and without an unslotted Targetting Drone, the accuracy of brawl is:-

Without 73.55% ( 121 attempts )
With 89.66% ( 203 attampts )

I think that the results are lower than expected for the first one ( 75% and 90% ) because I didn't realise until half way through the testing that Buttonmen Muscle must have some form of defence ( Weave ? ). In the run with the targtetting drone I used my blasts against the Musclemen so they didn't affect the statistics.

However this does now show that the base for targetting drone is 15% as Syn suggested. For a 3 slotted targettting drone we can now expect 23.4% extra to hit.

I also discovered that held opponents get a defence debuff, as in my first non-targetting drone dry run I got an accuracy in the low 80s, which was higher than expected and deduced that it was because I was sometimes hitting the Frozen enemies. When I didn't in the second test I got values approaching 75%.

Also the fact that I was able to safely stand in groups of 3 even minions wihtout having to worry about them shows how good Devices is as a defensive set. I had stacked Smoke grenades ( 20% acc debuff each I think ), cloaking device ( 4.5% defence unsupressed with 1 slot ) and combating jumping ( 3.0% defence 1 slotted ). Come to think of it I think they must have had floored accuracy if Smoke Grenade stacks.

After 15 levels of stalking I would say probably both.

Soloing, provided you can hit the enemy, the major worry is the number of them..
1 enemy is almost risk free.
2-3 enemies is easy providing you have placate.
With 4 + enemies you have to scrap rather than stalk.
Minions go down in one AS, Lts go down in one AS and an attack cycle or 2, bosses need a bit more scrapping or using a placate to do a second AS. I haven't found anything sensible that had more than half hit points after an Assassin's Strike.

In teams the concern is minimising the number of enemies who aggro on you whilst maximising damage. Smaller teams seem to be better than large teams, unless there are lots of masterminds, whose minions soak up aggro. Corruptors are good, as they provide useful debuffing on the enemy, as well as having good blasting powers than can be used to finish off partiallt assassinated bosses. I haven't teamed with any Dominators yet.

The stalker is a trickier archetype to play than any of the City of Heroes Archetypes. More thought and tactics are needed and you really need to know what is aggroed to you. The use of the placate is the trickiest, I have found it sometimes does a great job allowing another Assassin's Strike but other times ( when you have misjudged the aggro ) it just stops one enemy from attacking you.

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I use 3 to hit buffs at L45 and have no roblem with +4s/AVs/Giant Monsters.

The Base to hit buff has remained the same

It also provides resistance to to hit debuffs and +perception so is a top notch power in my books!

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The base to hit buff has remained the same, but the effectiveness of the enhancements has reduced from Schedule A ( 33% per SO ) to Schedule B ( 20% per SO ).

Primaries are
Spines
Claws
Ninja Blade
Martial Arts
Energy Melee

Secondarys are
Energy Aura
Ninjitsu
Regeneration
Super Reflexes

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One warning (IMHO): Stalkers are a PvP AT. They solo badly and don't team well. Expect slow progress.

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Wrong, and... wrong.
Well, Stalkers get teams just as easy as Scrappers. They are not as wanted as defenders and tanks (talking CoH now), but they are certainly more welcome to a team than for example a Warshade.

Anyway, they solo quite good as well. They don't have too much HP, but they will kill the enemy first because of the hight DPS. Stalkers ftw! <3

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My stalker solos reasonably well.

I found that the duo I was in ( with a D2 Corrupter ) worked really well as spawns of ~4 meant that I did a Assassin's Impale to take out one, he did a snipe and then we mopped up the last 2-3 with normal attacks.

On a larger team there are real problems with the Agro caused by Assassin's Impale can mean frequent use discounts at the hospital. However the ability to take a boss to ~ 50% health and to wipe out a Lt is not to be sniffed at and can mean that you are very useful.

Also I was teamed with a Stalker who was playing it like a Scrapper ( he was SR secondary and didn't have Assassin's Strike ) and in the missions where I was dying too much he seemed to be doing better than me.

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In that case, back on track it is.

Regarding picking your spot, I have always been in favour of my spot being the centre of the spawn. Whilst taunting and hiding behind a tree/pillar/door etc.. to draw them is good on a team that knows each other, it often makes life harder on a pickup team.

If everyone waits for you to carefully gather all the mobs up, it's fine. Seven times out of ten though, scrappers will charge off at the first sign of movement or blasters will open up. You now have the group spread out and harder to manage.

I much prefer jumping (or tp'ing in my case) straight into the spawn whilst they are nice and compacted. Means I'm in charge of when the fight starts and already have control of most of the mobs. Course you do risk sometimes aggroing any nearby mobs with this approach...

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Jumping into spawns works with most enemies, however this is the best way to get a team wipe against Nemesis in open terrain. Unfortunately this tactic works for 90% of enemies.
Letting a tanker pull takes about 5-10 seconds. If the team don't let me do it when I believe it is necessary they might as well not invite me, especially if I then have to risk my neck ( and invariably their's ) by trying to tank over my ability, in order to keep them from dying. It amazes me when teams in their 40s won't let you do this even after a multiple deaths caused by dangerous foes with high perception or close spawns. Or when it is clear that the tanker cannot survive if anything goes wrong.

The fact is that now thet in I6 scrappers are squishier and so are tankers the art of pulling is going to be a more necessary one.

Respeccing Golden Golem is too depressing...

I am no longer on active duty. Sorry.

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hehe. I dont think you know why whirlwind is great Unthing. Its not the knock back/up/down or what ever it is. Its the fact that you arent rooted while attacking.

I have mine 3 slotted with end red and the cost isnt that bad.

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How many even enemies does it take to floor your endurance when standing next to them? Last time I checked it was about 2 or 3.

I know about the whirlwind root thingy but thats not why I want it. I want it to be like the Tazmanian Devil and use it as damage mitigation. As you say in your other post you think it will be nerfed. I agree with you.
I did a search on whirlwind on the US forums last night because I was trying to work out if it was now feasible as a scrapper melee power, but every post was about PvP and how 90% of every serious PvP team has it. Seems a bit lame to me.

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useful guide. would recommend anyone of thinkin of rollin a tank read it. i got so fed up with the amount of low damage scrankers out there i decided to roll my own tank a couple of weeks ago. plannin it a few times i only ended up with about 3 attacks

on a similiar note is it worth a tank gettin and slottin tough from the fightin pool?

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My general rule for my tanks is if you have more than 2 attacks from the secondary before level 22 you have been neglecting your primary. Which attacks these are is very important, usually there is a good one at level 10, which means 9 lvls with one attack and brawl. I would always insist on stamina at 20 in all my tank builds, as many toggles = bad end recovery. Most tanks builds would benefit from tough, the only exception being a granite stone build, however whether you have room for it in your build is another matter. Also tough is very expensive, at 0.42 end per second it is more costly than most tanker toggles. Weave is similarly expensive. If you get tough or weave I would highly recommend slotting them at least with end reducers.

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Dont slot health. Its a complete waste IMO. Im trying really hard to come up with a reason to slot fast healing and I cant really find it. It doesnt really add any protection. It just lowers your downtime. I'll bet you are gonna wait for build up or hasten or IH or MoG to recharge, and not just health.

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The reason to slot fast healing is because a slot in Fast Healing is 75% as effective as a slot in Integration. In I5 we slot 6 heals in integration so in I6 we slot 3 in Integration and 3 in Fast Healing. 3 in Health may be diminishing returns and probably not worth it until later when you have slots to spare. A slot in Health is worth 40% of a slot in Integration.
So with 6 slots spent on Health, Fast Healing and Integration ( 3 each ) you have the equivalent of 5.3 slots in Integration at the cost of 6 extra slots. Without the Health slotting its the equivalent of 4.5 slots in Integration at the cost of 4 extra slots. In I5 6 slots in integration cost 5 extra slots.

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Get either the fear powers from presence pool or whirlwind from the speed pool. It adds much more protection than a few slots in health or fast healing.

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I was going to get Whirlwind for Unthing, but that was a speedster thing. I've had it before and it was an end hog and was therefore not worthwhile, but as they reduced the end cost just after I5 release it might be okay.
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Put some buff acc on your build up. Nothing worse than missing with build up. Plus you get a chance to kill something even tho your debuffed or fighting one of those eluders.

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I've never thought of that. Good plan!

I haven't tried, but these are my suggestions based on my I5 build for Unthing.

Compulsary powers.
Integration 3 heals.
Fast Healing 3 heals.
Reconstruction 3 recharge 3 heal.
Dull Pain 3 recharge 3 heal

Then optional powers
Health 3 heal
Instant Healing 3 recharge 3 heal
MoG 3 defence 3 recharge ( I know you can't get this yet )

Bind Dull Pain and Reconstruction to convenient keys, use Reconstruction often. Use Dull Pain when you are over your head ( or be lazy and auto it ). I never got the hang of using click Instant Healing, but I know others did.

Also, from the katana side, get Build Up ( or equivalent ) and the parry one ( Divine Avalanche ).

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They make lousy team additions:

* Too much chance of the team aggroing your target away and destroying your chance of AS working.
* Since the mob groups are larger, far more chance you'll get planted by the retaliation after you assassinate that Lt.

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I found it okay in teams. In fact this was where i shined. I spent a lot of time running out of aggro range and rehiding, they work well with masterminds and brutes, whose minions get aggro back quite quickly.

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They make lousy solo ATs:
* Not enough hit points or DPS to survive after an assassination.
* Only way to get around this is to do everything one mob at a time = slow progression.
* VERY vulnerable to ambushes which see through Hide.

I can see why you'd have fun with a Stalker in the lower levels... no debt.

Stalkers are PvP ATs, and Cryptic plan to nerf that anyway.

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Solo was slow, a defeat all mission is a complete chore. Taking out a minion with AS is easy. Taking out 2 is easy too, AS on one and melee the second. Lts are down in one attack cycle if AS hits. However when you start getting more than that it becomes difficult.

I got to level 10. I couldn't get debt, true, but I wasn't faceplanting as much as the others team members either. In fact in many team wipes I was the only one left, or ended up faceplanting 50 yards behind everyone as I tried to run but then couldn't resist ambushing them once hidden.

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I was tempted to make a cheerleader character for a EM brute to go with the pink pom-poms.

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I have a rather horrible mental picture of a hairy Brute wearing a cheerleader outfit. Think Bluto from Popeye.

Herostats to the rescue!!!

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So my to hit buff now with new I6 style Schedule B SOs is 15% * 1.56 = 23.4%. I guess that is just about as good against evens as a accuracy SO ( and better against others and high defence).

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I may have missed the bus on this one - who confirmed that To-Hits had changed Schedule?

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Well it's been in all the red name ED related posts that it is Schedule B and is in the I6 release notes. I have no official confirmation that it was Schedule A before. However when ED release notes were released I went back to my Tactics test in the ( now lost ) To Hit Buff thread and checked if there was any way that the results I got would fit for a schedule B enhancement if Tactics had a 12.5% base To Hit Buff for a defender. There wasn't, it had to be schedule A.

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I think I noticed the difference because I was used to having 34.5% from 4 Schedule A SOs before. That pretty much capped my accuracy against anything up to reds. Damn.
I guess Freaks must have defence, does that sound right?

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And never forget your "5%" chance to miss.

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Yes but I was comparing the feeling of missing lots compared to the previous day. We still had a 5% chance to miss the day before.
Someone also mentioned in another thread here that people have noticed that there are more missing streaks. Given that I wasn't counting, it could be that I had a lots of misses in a row that made me feel I was missing a lot. I guess I'll have to download the new (unstable) version of Herostats and get some more accurate data.

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Hmm, i'm assume frost breath is the cone attack (similar to fire breath for me) i'd problably stick 2 slts in their to lift the damage. I find using an AOE/cone opener is a good way of either thinning or seriously injuring a group

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I used Frost Breath a lot early on, but I tend not to use it now, that's why I didn't slot it. Before respeccing to this I ran a couple of missions to try and remember my playstyle. Maybe I should adjust to using it a bit more.

Well here's my current shiny respecced build as of Wednesday, although I can't quite afford all the SOs until I can get someone to help with an influence transfer from GG.

Exported from version 1.5A of CoH Planner
http://joechott.com/coh

Archetype: Blaster
Primary Powers - Ranged : Ice Blast
Secondary Powers - Support : Devices

01 : Web Grenade recred(01)
01 : Ice Blast dam(01) dam(3) dam(3) endred(7) recred(7) recred(13)
02 : Ice Bolt dam(02) dam(5) dam(5) endred(15) recred(17) endred(17)
04 : Frost Breath dam(04)
06 : Caltrops recred(06)
08 : Freeze Ray hlddur(08) hlddur(9) hlddur(9) acc(13)
10 : Targeting Drone thtbuf(10) thtbuf(11) thtbuf(11) endred(15)
12 : Combat Jumping defbuf(12)
14 : Super Jump jmp(14)
16 : Swift runspd(16)
18 : Bitter Ice Blast dam(18) dam(19) dam(19) endred(21) endred(21) recred(25)
20 : Health hel(20)
22 : Stamina endrec(22) endrec(23) endrec(23)
24 : Smoke Grenade thtdbf(24) thtdbf(25) thtdbf(27) recred(27)
26 : Bitter Freeze Ray acc(26)
28 : Cloaking Device endred(28)

So no Hasten ( I ran out of end when using it anyway ). I have always used Caltrops. Smoke Grenades I added slots to because they are fun and a 20% accuracy debuff is pretty useful. I have some level 29 slots to spread out but I haven't decided where to put them, I'll use them when I have played a bit.

Caltrops is a life saver, but not as much as the freeze ray. I had problems soloing more than 3 freaks at once without using Caltrops to confuse them. The freeze ray could do with a little speeding up, currently I can perma-hold one enemy.

The main problem with this build is that I feel like I need another single target attack. Other than that, I'm missing much more than in I5, mainly because the bonus from my targeting drone has gone through the floor ( and I was only fighting on a Heroic mission ).
Any ideas on where to put my 2 slots?

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IIRC, the buff provided by a three-slotted Targeting Drone (with +3 SOs) equates to about a 40% Accuracy buff. Remember, To Hit Buffs don't work in exactly the same way as Accuracy enhancements - Accuracy enhancements are a multiplier to the base To-hit, To-hit buffs are added to the base accuracy, not multiplied after. This is probably explained better by Arcanaville:

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If it is 40% of worth of accuracy enhancements for a 3 (even)SOs then it would be a (40.0*0.75) = 30% to hit buff indicating it has about a 15% base to hit buff in I5.

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Tohit buffs work like this to increase the base tohit number:

base tohit * (1 + tohit buffs)

So if your base tohit is 75%, and you use or receive a 60% tohit buff, your modified tohit becomes:

0.75 * (1 + 0.60) = 1.2 = 120%

Note that this is higher than 100%: see tohit floors and tohit ceilings below. Tohit buffs and tohit debuffs are subtractive from each other, as the advanced formula shows.

Accuracy enhancements work differently than tohit buffs. As shown in the formula, accuracy enhancements take effect after defense, while tohit buffs take effect before defense. The difference is that tohit buffs are much more effective than accuracy enhancements when defense is high. If your tohit on a target is 30%, a 33% accuracy enhancement SO will boost that percentage to 40% (30% * 1.33) regardless of what the defense of the target was (as long as the net effect of base tohit and defense was 30%).

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The formula that both myself and DrRock ended up agreeing on after testing was. This was Positron's formula, but he didn't define what Base Accuracy was.

cap(cap(Base Accuracy + to hit buff/debuff - defence buff/debuff)*(100+Accuracy enhancements)/100)

Where Base Accuracy for most powers was 75% and was modified by enemy level.

So my to hit buff now with new I6 style Schedule B SOs is 15% * 1.56 = 23.4%. I guess that is just about as good against evens as a accuracy SO ( and better against others and high defence).

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I did some testing with Syn - as a few choice people in Warburg were aware - and he hit far more often than he missed with only 3 slots in TD. He seemed to do worse in PvE, that said - so yes, we're a little less uber, just like everyone else.

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I think I noticed the difference because I was used to having 34.5% from 4 Schedule A SOs before. That pretty much capped my accuracy against anything up to reds. Damn.

I guess Freaks must have defence, does that sound right?

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If I can be bothered to create a villain when my pack arrives, she will be a Stalker, even if I do think the entire AT is gimped beyond belief.

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I had great fun in the lower levels playing a stalker. It's a strange AT that only really works if you play really tactically. The amount of difference taking out lieutenants can make in the low levels is pretty significant.

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Hold != Taunt

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I know, Hold > Taunt.

However I think you are referring to me calling tanker and controllers holders. Maybe I should call them occupiers then. Both Controller and Tankers occupy the enemy so the rest of the team can defeat them in relative safety. The 2 ATs are different in what they can accomplish and how, but when used properly have a similar effect on the team.

I have been on a number of controller heavy team as Golden Golem and have felt almost completely redundant.

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Well, tanks just became even more redundant now that we can't hold the aggro if anyone accidentally aggros more than one spawn.

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I think that they want us to have 2 or more holders per 8 man group. A holder being a tank or a controller.

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What would you guys say is the best power set combination? I know it's really a matter of opinion, but just asking, as a n00b to melee combat

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Dark/Dark is VERY fun. It has a lot of scary powers and self +end and self +heal. However you do have to watch your endurance. Also Shadow Maul is my favourite Melee attack EVER.

Firey Melee is a great Primary for tankers, but I think they moved it around for Brutes so it isn't the same.

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Cryostrike, wants to rejoin the Rangers after being kicked for not logging on for about 3-4 weeks. Can he rejoin?

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No

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I was doing a bit of playing with my newly respecced build for Cryostrike, my blaster and I noticed he kept on missing.

He uses a Targeting Drone, from the Device Pool, currently slotted 3 to hits and one end reducer. None of his attacks have accuracy enhancements in them.

I'm pretty sure ( and did testing on Tactics that support it ) that in I5 To Hit Buffs were a schedule A enhancement, providing a 33% increase per enhancement, however the release notes for I6 say they are schedule B.

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Schedule B Enhancements (20%, 10%, 5%) are:

Range, Defense Buff, Resist Damage, To Hit Buff

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The limits the maximum to hit buff to about 55% of what it was before.

Most people who take Targeting Drone do so to free up a slot in all their attacks ( something that now could be considered less useful now that 6 slotting is no longer efficient ). I'm not sure that it can be used for this anymore unless you are 2 slotting accuracy.

Does anyone know the value of the To Hit Buff that Targetting Drone provides?

My guess is 10%. This would mean that 6 slotted it would give an to hit buff of 16.5% which is about 5% worse than an Accuracy SO in all attacks. In order to be as good as Accuracy enhancements it would have to have an enhanced To Hit Buff in the low 20s.