useful guide. would recommend anyone of thinkin of rollin a tank read it. i got so fed up with the amount of low damage scrankers out there i decided to roll my own tank a couple of weeks ago. plannin it a few times i only ended up with about 3 attacks 
on a similiar note is it worth a tank gettin and slottin tough from the fightin pool?
If you can fit it in then Tough will help. Can respec it out later if you are going perma-granite. If you plan on using all your other armours all the time later in the game, Tough is pretty much a must.
I only have 4 attacks (including brawl). 
tryin not to deviate from tundra guides..
but yes, my plain was to use all armours + tough until granite becomes available. i'm only lvl9 atm so got along way to go
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useful guide. would recommend anyone of thinkin of rollin a tank read it. i got so fed up with the amount of low damage scrankers out there i decided to roll my own tank a couple of weeks ago. plannin it a few times i only ended up with about 3 attacks
on a similiar note is it worth a tank gettin and slottin tough from the fightin pool?
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Thanks. Tough is likely to help if you can fit it in, but I have to admit I was trying to avoid making this a build guide
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
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useful guide. would recommend anyone of thinkin of rollin a tank read it. i got so fed up with the amount of low damage scrankers out there i decided to roll my own tank a couple of weeks ago. plannin it a few times i only ended up with about 3 attacks
on a similiar note is it worth a tank gettin and slottin tough from the fightin pool?
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My general rule for my tanks is if you have more than 2 attacks from the secondary before level 22 you have been neglecting your primary. Which attacks these are is very important, usually there is a good one at level 10, which means 9 lvls with one attack and brawl. I would always insist on stamina at 20 in all my tank builds, as many toggles = bad end recovery. Most tanks builds would benefit from tough, the only exception being a granite stone build, however whether you have room for it in your build is another matter. Also tough is very expensive, at 0.42 end per second it is more costly than most tanker toggles. Weave is similarly expensive. If you get tough or weave I would highly recommend slotting them at least with end reducers.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
In that case, back on track it is.
Regarding picking your spot, I have always been in favour of my spot being the centre of the spawn. Whilst taunting and hiding behind a tree/pillar/door etc.. to draw them is good on a team that knows each other, it often makes life harder on a pickup team.
If everyone waits for you to carefully gather all the mobs up, it's fine. Seven times out of ten though, scrappers will charge off at the first sign of movement or blasters will open up. You now have the group spread out and harder to manage.
I much prefer jumping (or tp'ing in my case) straight into the spawn whilst they are nice and compacted. Means I'm in charge of when the fight starts and already have control of most of the mobs. Course you do risk sometimes aggroing any nearby mobs with this approach...
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In that case, back on track it is.
Regarding picking your spot, I have always been in favour of my spot being the centre of the spawn. Whilst taunting and hiding behind a tree/pillar/door etc.. to draw them is good on a team that knows each other, it often makes life harder on a pickup team.
If everyone waits for you to carefully gather all the mobs up, it's fine. Seven times out of ten though, scrappers will charge off at the first sign of movement or blasters will open up. You now have the group spread out and harder to manage.
I much prefer jumping (or tp'ing in my case) straight into the spawn whilst they are nice and compacted. Means I'm in charge of when the fight starts and already have control of most of the mobs. Course you do risk sometimes aggroing any nearby mobs with this approach...
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Jumping into spawns works with most enemies, however this is the best way to get a team wipe against Nemesis in open terrain. Unfortunately this tactic works for 90% of enemies.
Letting a tanker pull takes about 5-10 seconds. If the team don't let me do it when I believe it is necessary they might as well not invite me, especially if I then have to risk my neck ( and invariably their's ) by trying to tank over my ability, in order to keep them from dying. It amazes me when teams in their 40s won't let you do this even after a multiple deaths caused by dangerous foes with high perception or close spawns. Or when it is clear that the tanker cannot survive if anything goes wrong.
The fact is that now thet in I6 scrappers are squishier and so are tankers the art of pulling is going to be a more necessary one.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
It's all totally useless anyway because we now don't get to even make the decision to take the aggro off our teammates because of the damned aggro cap.
Tankers = pwnt by I6. Finally. They were trying hard in I5, but this just about freaking does it.
You need to add something to your guide to reflect the discovery of the most recent stealth nerf to tankers - the aggro limit of 17.
Basically, aggro from a second spawn in an 8 man team is completely out of your control because you will be totally unable to taunt more than 17 enemies at a time.
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It's all totally useless anyway because we now don't get to even make the decision to take the aggro off our teammates because of the damned aggro cap.
Tankers = pwnt by I6. Finally. They were trying hard in I5, but this just about freaking does it.
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This is simply incorrect. You will still be able to hold the aggro of an entire single spawn, and unless you're on a 7-8 man team you should be able to hold the vast majority of 2 spawns. On a full-size team it's reasonable to expect others to share aggro-control duties though, yes. Any Controller, a second Tank or several varieties of Defendr will be able to help a lot with this.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
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You need to add something to your guide to reflect the discovery of the most recent stealth nerf to tankers - the aggro limit of 17.
Basically, aggro from a second spawn in an 8 man team is completely out of your control because you will be totally unable to taunt more than 17 enemies at a time.
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It's worth mentioning in the thread - so thanks for mentioning it. It doesn't change the tactics involved in controlling a spawn at all, though.
As above, thanks to recent changes it's worth having a second source of aggro/mob control on an 8-man team. You'll find, though, that alternating between the two spawns will still give you quite a lot of control, just nowhere near as much as you had before.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
Sorry I wasn't criticising your guide because it's very good but I still think it might be worth mentioning because as this change is not included in the patch notes (which is utterly unacceptable) many people will not know about it.
Of course, it's entirely up to you but a little caveat at the beginning would make an already great guide even better
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On a full-size team it's reasonable to expect others to share aggro-control duties though
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_This_ is "simply incorrect" as it doesn't work in game. You can spout all you want about getting other tankers and whatnot but basically if there isn't one around, you're [censored]. FTR I actually really enjoyed being the tank for 8 man teams. Now that little tiny sliver of fun has been removed too.
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On a full-size team it's reasonable to expect others to share aggro-control duties though
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_This_ is "simply incorrect" as it doesn't work in game. You can spout all you want about getting other tankers and whatnot but basically if there isn't one around, you're [censored]. FTR I actually really enjoyed being the tank for 8 man teams. Now that little tiny sliver of fun has been removed too.
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I didn't say find another Tank - I said someone has to share aggro control. You wouldn't expect an 8-man team to work with only one damage dealer - why should it automatically work with only one person attempting to control aggro? I agree that the cap is too low - 2 full-size spawns would make more sense - but a cap of some sort is perfectly reasonable, and a more sane response to power-herding than many of the changes to eg. Burn have been.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
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Sorry I wasn't criticising your guide because it's very good but I still think it might be worth mentioning because as this change is not included in the patch notes (which is utterly unacceptable) many people will not know about it.
Of course, it's entirely up to you but a little caveat at the beginning would make an already great guide even better
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It's past its edit time limit, I'm afraid, and thanks to the patch note ommission I didn't know about the new limit when I reposted it. But like I said, thanks for mentioning it here as it's good that it gets a mention in the same thread.
Leaving it out of the patch notes is really poor, yes.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey
I am replying to this because it needs to be brought up again, its currently worked its way as far back on the tanker section as it almost possibly can get.
I am currently seeing too many tankers with all the defensiveness in the world and yet no way for them to get hit. Typically every armour in the stone tank set, med pool, fight pool and no mudpots on and no taunt at all.
They may not actually start tanking until the team is completely wiped and the enemies have no one left to attack.
With a tanker that wants to get hit it can happen with teams that dont allow the tanker ample opportunity to do their job.
I dont care for guides to builds anywhere as near as much as guides for taunt control. Every build is different and so maybe needs to be allowed to play slightly differently to achieve control, some tanks can cope playing recoveratively whilst some need to be more preventative to be just as or more effective.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I'm re-posting this following the board wipe as I think it should still be useful in I6 and the Tanker forum seemed a good place for it:
Aggro and you... Tanking Suggestions for I5/I6
There have been quite a lot of posts recently about adapting builds to the changes introduced with I5 - this is not one of those, it's about the other half of being a Tank once you've taken care of your defenses. Although I'll have to refer to individual powers from time to time, this aims to be a guide to the tactical side of tanking rather than simply optimising defensess. Almost everything here was already true in I4 and now with the I5 changes to taunting it's all become a bit more important.
I should also point out that not everything in here is down to me - I've picked up a number of tips from some extremely good Tanks I've teamed with.
As ever with this sort of thing, this is all purely IMO and is a description of how I go about keeping my team alive by tanking. I'm sure there are alternative or better ways of doing things, but hopefully some of these tips will be of help to some Tanks at least. Any suggestions and improvements are very welcome.
So, a quick breakdown of tanking as I see it...
It's All About Taunting
Note: This does not mean that it's all about Taunt. Taunting is how you keep the enemy attacking you instead of the rest of your team - which is how you keep them alive. It doesn't matter how indestructible you are if the enemies are still beating up on the Blasters instead. So pretty much every other point here is about making sure that your enemies are taunted and standing in the right place.
Use Your Aura
More than ever, your PBAoE aura power - Invincibility, MudPots, Blazing Aura, Chilling Embrace (and/or Icicles) - is your best means of grabbing and holding aggro. The constant ticks of taunting from this aura will keep the attention of everything within range (normally only slightly over melee range) under most circumstances. If you're playing on higher difficulty levels, you'll want a lot of Taunt enhancers slotted here (I favour 4 in MudPots) otherwise the taunt duration will dribble away to nothing. This means that for maximum taunting you want to be surrounded. Which leads us on to...
Pick Your Spot
For any number of reasons, you want not only to attract the attention of your enemies, but to pick the spot where your team fights them as well. You'll want them to be surrounding you so that as many as possible are in your aura. You'll want them a good distance from any other groups of enemies so any knockbacks or AoEs aren't too likely to aggro another spawn. Many enemies are reluctant to close with you so once you have their attention you are likely to have to find a bit of scenery to hide behind - pillars, corners, rocks and trees are all useful - to break their line-of-sight and make them come to you. Try not to make it the corner your group are hiding behind unless you want them all to get flattened by stray AoE.
None Shall Pass!
Once you've picked the ideal spot for the fight and drawn your enemies there - keep them there! Naturally this is where controllers really come into their own, but for your part this is where you can best make use of Taunt (or Provoke). As I was saying above, you want to be surrounded and stay surrounded to Taunt as many enemies as possible - so if you see an enemy chasing off from your group to beat on a squishy, Taunt it! If a patrol turns up, Taunt it! A few minions get knocked back out of your Aura, don't chase after them - throw a Taunt after them instead. Which takes me on to...
Look At The Big Picture
Because the enemies around you are very unlikely to take you out quickly, a Tank is in a uniquely good situation to look at the whole of a fight rather than concentrating on the enemy in front of them. A huge help is learning to use your camera zoom (mouse wheel by default) and zooming a long way out so that you can see the whole fight. This way you can see any stray enemies moving around away from your main group and taunt them back in. All of this is, I guess, rather implying my next point...
Defeating Enemies Is Not Your Job
Oh, there's certainly no harm in hitting them - and some of your attacks will do very good damage. But every action you make concentrating on defeating an individual enemy is one where you aren't concentrating on aggro management. Unlike any other AT, you're much better off spreading out your attacks between as many enemies as possible rather than concentrating on finishing one off at a time. This way you taunt as many enemies as possible rather than constantly re-taunting the same one. The rest of your team are more than capable of dealing the damage to finish the enemies off - and in most cases far faster than you will. It's your job to keep them alive while they do it.
Know Your Enemy (or All Cones and AoEs Are Evil)
This one became particularly obvious when fighting Nemesis, but it's equally true for any other cone attacking enemy. Having the enemy aggroed on you doesn't help your team one bit if they're still in the range of the cone attacks being shot at you, so try to put yourself on the opposite side of the enemies from the rest of your group, at least for the alpha strike. AoEs are more difficult to deal with. If you're dealing with a whole mob of minions using AoEs constanly (I'm looking at you, Siege and Nightstar maps...) it's probably best for the squishier AT's to keep their distance. But if it's a big ol' Monster or AV it may well be better for you to keep you distance and taunt at range. They won't fire off their PBAoE attacks if you're out of range - a life saver against all the Footstompers - and and ranged AoEs that hit you shouldn't hit the rest of your team. Some AV's may well have scripted Novas which fire when they reach a given percentage of max. health
Two Tanks > Two Times The Tanking
Everything up to this point assumes there's just one Tank in the team, but what if there are two or more of you? The only thing which can normally overpower a Taunt for aggro control is another Taunt... which means that multiple Tanks can result in chaos unless you coordinate things somewhat. However, with a little communication two Tanks work better than one. The preferred method on the teams I've been on has been to have one Tank playing the immovable object role described so far, and the other acting as a secondary tank mopping up stray aggro, surrounding groups, patrols, knockback victims etc. and leading them back to the main group. It helps if the more stationary Tank is higher level - that will allow his Taunt to overpower that of the more mobile Tank and ensure that any enemies led back to the main group stay there. In addition, Stone and Inv Tanks are better suited to the stationary role - Stone because of their relatively low mobility and Inv because their defenses are a great deal stronger when surrounded by enemies (this is probably true for Ice as well, but I don't know the set as well). Anyone but Stone fulfills the mobile role well - your auras will do a lot of your work for you, but of course throwing in surgical Taunts as well will always help.
Well, there we have it so far. Hope it's of help to some and additions/suggestions will be greatly welcomed.
By my 50s shall ye know me:
Tundra, DVM, The Late, Neutrino Ghost, Sir Clanksalot, End Of Days, Prof. Migraine
Howler Monkey