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Quote:It's an odd world where you're the pollyanna, Nethergoat.Originally Posted by Nethergoat
No it isn't.
Unless you like unsupported hyperbole, I guess- "Make no mistake though: CoH/V’s future hangs by a Going Rogue thread"? Ridiculous.
It's negative speculation by a fan writer, no different from the sort of junk that piles up on this forum except for being less informed on the current state of the game.
EDIT: Because if GoRo doesn't bring a sizeable number of players into / back to CoH/V, NCsoft is pretty unlikely to keep maintaining current resources into Paragon Studios for this title. At last official check, there were less than 125k players in CoH/V and I've got reason to believe that this number may have further declined.
The Q3 2009 figures are out for NCsoft and CoH/V's sales are down about 22% quarter-on-quarter and about 13% year-on-year. And that was a quarter that included I16 and the introduction of increased power customisation (Q2 2009 included I14 and MA, as well as I15). Although CoH/V could make its sales revenue target for 2009 - 25000 m Won - it is going to have to have a good Q4 to make it from its current position of about 19 000 m W during a period where it is not releasing any major new content additions (guess we'll see about the Xmas event). -
I'm on Virtue and although I track the Australia chat, spend most of time on VU2009.
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If you really want neg rep, start a thread on how much better ChampO is (no direct comparisons, mind) and how you are president of the Bring Emmert Back fan club. You will go directly to red, do not pass Go, do not collect $200.
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Quote:Careful where you point that particular argument, because "when did X become an essential gameplay feature?" is a great catch-all defence against doing anything. Replace X with:Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
I'm sorry, when did earning badges become an essential gameplay feature?
- markets
- IOs
- enhancements
- AE
- travel powers
- badges
- power customisation
or whatever you want and you can then handwave away any concerns about them because they aren't really 'essential'. You can play without them, but they are nice to have (and nicer to have done right).
Given that badges are a major retention / achievement mechanic that sees players come back in droves to earn the new ones / earn old ones on alts, thus keeping them playing, doing them right is important. The older content that contains the badges is often quite painful - and is noted by the devs as being quite painful - is not excused simply because it is older content. -
Quote:A lot of people will compare CoV and GoRo in terms of value. If GoRo costs the same to buy as the other games ($90, locally) then I will feel shortchanged if it doesn't provide the same amount of content (i.e. lvl 1- 40).Originally Posted by Mr. NoPants
One was a stand alone expansion which was suppose to have enough content to function on its own. The other is an expansion branching off from the whole which does not stand by itself.
However, when you put it like that the announcement of lvl 1 - 20 makes sense. Players have been requesting a new starting experience for a while now. GoRo would serve that need without the requirement of going back and upgrading early content.
As for what else GoRo might have: even the devs don't know yet and all we can go by is what is announced (and even that is subject to change). -
Quote:Is it in the game and part of lvl 50 content?Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
As others have said, it's pretty shortsighted to judge a four and a half year old arc so harshly. Not only did they not have anywhere near the same tools they have now, they had a lot more things to get done and written before deadline.
The arcs you're so pissed about were put out with the 40-50 hero content, in the second Issue (I think it's second).
Reasonable people have a sense of perspective though, and take it with a grain of salt. Sorry you weren't able to.
Is it the main way of taking on Anti-Matter and earning a badge?
Then the criticism counts. If you want this badge, you have to go through this very ordinary mission set and then have the possibility of Anti-Matter teleport away (although I thought that only happened in the first half of the arc and you can defeat him correctly towards the end of it).
It's like saying "The Positron TF sucks and everyone knows it sucks but we give it a pass because its old content" despite it being a core requirement in earning two badges.
Rather then everyone acting in a knee jerk defence, read the complaint and suggest another way of taking on Anti-Matter for the badge. -
This sounds like somethings the devs should set-up, video and release to YouTube.
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Perhaps unlike the Europeans, we don't mind talking to Americans in their own forums? ;-)
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One issue with this trial during this period of the year is that it comes with a lot of holidays that in turn increases the load on the servers.
However, I'm not expecting an end-of-year patch (it would be in beta by now if they planned to have an I17 out before Xmas). So perhaps the maintenance will be more 'normal' in that regard. -
I don't think GoRo is coming with a whole heap of nerfs riding shotgun - the aim of GoRo is to attract new players, not drive them off. I'm expecting the new powersets to be considered overpowered, however - that's been a trend. Whether or not it is a case of the new shiny being considered overpowered because it is the new shiny or because it is actually overpowered is another issue.
I'm more interested in how the new content is going to intersect / interact with the old and if any 'new policy' decisions trump any 'old policy' decisions ala badges. Plus the actual implementation of the faction system / side switching. The fact that only lvls 1 - 20 were covered within GoRo at this early stage is an issue - although I can assume that more is coming, my time watching MMOs has taught me that what is intended often doesn't make it live, or that it is very possible for accurate statements to be read more broadly than the devs intend (e.g. "The war walls are coming down!").
For instance, having 5 zones to cover lvl 1 - 20 is certainly possible - a starting zone (lvl 1 - 9), a low-level loyalist zone (lvl 10 - 20), a low-level resistance zone (lvl 10 - 20), a mid-to-high lvl zone for those who wish to shift from / to hero (lvl 21 - 50) and a mid-to-high lvl zone for those wanting to shift to / from villain (lvl 21 - 50). There may even be a neutral zone.
Until we see it in detail, it is pre-emptive to call it too far either way. I was disappointed in the info that came out of HeroCon because I thought there'd be more of it and the lvl 1 - 20 content bit stood out as a red flag to me. -
Tyrant is actually the greatest hero in existence since he has pretty much eradicated crime and created a society that provides for all.
Discuss. -
Quote:Thank you very much.Originally Posted by Frosticus
Doesn't this same logic dictate that it is also unfair to judge it so early and cry praise?
Judge it when it is out. I've asked questions; I'm now waiting to see what the answers are. -
Quote:It will promote arbitrage behaviour. If a desirable IO is cheaper villain-side than hero-side, people will flip sides to get the cheaper enhancement, thus driving up the cost of that IO due to increased demand. If villain-side is poorer inf-wise, then this will potentially put the cost of those IOs out of reach for the vast majority of the market. They might come back to hero-side to sell the IO at a profit, potentially increasing supply, but I think the determined marketeer would be aiming to sell such items at a premium and therefore the prices probably wouldn't drop by much, if at all.Originally Posted by Laevateinn
I don't understand how worried some people are about "manipulation" of the market by people bringing goods across faction lines. Given that side-switching is not going to be "flipping a switch", how prevalent will this sort of behavior be? Will it even come close to being able to affect the balance of supply and demand on either side? Even if it were practical, wouldn't it result in people bringing goods from the side with more supply to the one with less supply, driving down prices?
It may end up creating some parity in the market as items that can be traded profitably between the markets start to level out, but overall it is probably going to see prices rise (villain-side at least, but if more players flood into CoH/V with GoRo it will increase demand which in term will drive up prices).
The price rise will be highest among the rarest, most desirable items.
How easy or hard it is to switch sides isn't known. -
When are we going to get back to how GoRo is going to ruin CoH/V foreva? This thread has turned into an undergrad arts discussion. ;-)
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Anyone who thinks CoH/V exists in moral absolutes as it currently stands needs to go back and look at the game. It is packed full of moral ambiguity.
Let's take one example: the Ouroboros mission where you end up creating the Council out of the Fifth Column. It is very much the case of picking the lesser of two evils.
Or perhaps fighting the Carnival of Shadows - a group dominated by innocents who are mind controlled, yet not one iota of restraint is used on them. We set them on fire / blow them up / freeze them / irradiate them / beat them with foot or fist with exactly the same relish as if they were Nemesis Automatons. As heroes, shouldn't we be dealing with these innocent victims in a different way? (Game mechanics aside of course - same for Loyalists being 'villains' and Resistance being 'heroes' since they really don't have to be.)
In terms of Statesman himself, he is very much a morally conflicted character. He is partly responsible for creating the threat of Lord Recluse and has sent friends and family into situations they might not come back from (and haven't). He's lived "for the greater good" in many of his sacrifices. He has an awful lot of blood on his hands as the premier hero leader and I've viewed his 'jerkness' as his psychological reaction to that.
As for the Praetorians: they are self-interested superpowered beings. Tyrant has set up a society where the best rise to the top (by whatever means necessary). He has also arguably made his world a better place by providing the basics for free and crushing those who would abuse the freedom they are given.
I'll be interested to see where GoRo takes CoH/V lore. -
Quote:I thought about changing the wording, but the CoP certainly didn't "make it" as content given the speed it was pulled out.Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
I think you've inadvertently filed the Cathedral of Pain in column A when it should be in column B. It's not as if it never appeared.
(Also, I don't recall the Vault ever being announced as done; it was announced as being worked on a couple of times, before it ultimately didn't work out, but that's not quite the same thing, is it? If they'd announced "Okay, it's ready!" and then never rolled it out, that'd make it the Moller Skycar of MMO features.
)
The Vault was announced as "coming very soon" and there is at least one player who felt the devs mocked him a bit at a convention when he asked about it and it was then shown on screen as almost ready.
My point was that until you see it, you can't just take the devs' word for it. Actual implementation might be very different from intention. -
Quote:If you look closely, you'll realise the devs hate islands.Originally Posted by seaborn
The devs hate City of Villains, but they hate the Pacific region even more.
The main gathering place of villains? Islands.
Where the most hated villain group in the game came from? Island of Malta.
Where do giant monsters live, repeatedly? Islands.
Where can't you live if you want to take part in a CoH/V contest? An island.
It's isleophobia, I tells ya! ;-) -
Quote:After all, the devs would never officially announce something as done that didn't make it in game (*cough*Vault*cough* *cough*CoP*cough*), or announce something that turns out to be underwhelming in implementation (*cough*PvP*cough* *cough*bases*cough*).Originally Posted by Nethergoat
of course it is, only a metal defective would think otherwise.
but it's nice to get some "official" confirmation of the obvious, although I don't expect it to have much impact on the paranoia lobby.
Sorry for all the coughing - the air is a bit dry in here.
What any MMO devs says they are implementing versus what actually appears can be two very different stories. -
Alternatively: the new graphics aren't for us, the players who post on the forums and polish our veteran badges. It's for the potential players who come across CoH/V, take a lot a the screenshots and go, "That's old and ugly."
If GoRo doesn't bring in a lot of new players, things won't look so good (Ultra mode or not) for CoH/V. Graphics are going to help bring them in. -
Massively wrote up something before Hero-Con started too.
So here's what I did - I sent them a tip and a link to the main Hero-Con thread that contains all the info. The reality is that Massively doesn't have a bias against CoH/V - they constantly want content to put up - but no-one from that site is paying attention to it at this point. Paragon Studios should have had something ready to go as soon as the Con finished.
Only thing I can think of is that the main contact Paragon Studios might use at Massively might be off sick or something. So they might have sent the info through, but no-one was there to put it up. -
Quote:Easiest way to do side switching is to offer repeatable content. CoH/V's familiarity with scaling enemies and missions could mean that side switching is very close to newspaper missions - you get a contact, run a number of missions for them (likely including a "big" one to round off the change) and then you are a bit further down the moral path you want to go.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Unless that's what the devs mean by "shade of gray" - 50s will have to fight 20s to switch sides
So you could very easily be fighting similar mobs types at lvl 50 side switching as you would at lvl 20. It'd be the same as fighting Arachnos in CoV.
I don't think it was confirmed, but the only way I can see side switching missions work is if they are repeatable content. -
Quote:ooooo controversyOriginally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
P.S. Aquaman is lame!
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I think there is a good chance that the people who "go overseas" might potentially end up as the Clockwork. Well, maybe not so much "good" as "possible".
It is too simple to just make the Clockwork King behind the Clockwork. Too easy. You know what would be more fun (and by fun, I mean "creepy")? The man behind the Clockwork is the Praetorian Dr Vahzilok. He's used to dealing with large numbers of automaton minions; in Praetoria he just gives them a chrome finish.
He'd be a lot more controllable than the incredible psychic power of the Clockwork King. And he could certainly be working under someone like Anti-Matter or Neuron. -
Quote:And then there are some of us who feel like they have valid points of query.Originally Posted by Bright Shadow
Over the next several months, these people started attracting a crowd. Today, we know this crowd as "The Doomsayers". It's a sort of a trend now. Everytime a new feature is announced or implemented, these Doomsays see it as yet another nail in CoH's coffin and feel the urge to "spread the truth", as if they are a group of priests who are trying to warn civilization of an apocalypse.
Things like:
- how are the markets going to be dealt with? Current descriptions make it seem like a huge potential hassle and also open the doors for arbitrage. Plus 95% of players - those not working on VEATs / EATs - will be going through the GoRo content rather than re-running existing content for the thousandth time. This is going to see low-level market materials / recipes dry up to a degree without access to the main markets or even dry up on one side completely (such as all the people taking Villain ATs heroside). Maybe this won't matter if GoRo is only lvl 1 - 20, but if it is lvl 1 - 40...
- what about currency? Does a redeemed Villain end up seeing all that infamy convert to influence? Does it all disappear during the conversion process?
- isn't only having a lvl 1 - 20 range for the new content fairly limited? That isn't going to last long. Perhaps there will be more, but a major new CoH/V expansion that aims to bring people back an hold them needs to last more than the first (quickly passed) 20 levels. Maybe the additional content for lvl 50s is going to end any concern I have, but it is certainly fair enough to ask the question.
- what happens to SG / VG status when characters redeem / go rogue? For that matter, what about Praetorian Groups (PGs)?
All of these things (and a lot more) will impact on the GoRo experience. Now is the time to raise them because there could still be time for such things to be considered and altered by the devs.
And "The Doomsayers" have been around since pre-launch. As have the White Knights. -
Quote:The main info thread on GoRo wasn't clear and I only saw BAB's comment after posting mine.Originally Posted by Ms. Mesmer
BaB just said above you that while you are in the grey areas, you can still only access the market for your native side. Once you fully swap, you use the one for the other side. At no point does anyone have access to both. The real devil is in how well you can transport things bought from one side when you're just a hair away from swapping completely to the other. Those people who play at the edges of grey may become the true masters of the markets.
However, even with that, you are right that how hard it is to flip sides will determine how quickly marketeers can take advantage of each separate market.
Plus it suggests that the Praetorians have no market of their own. Really? Or, instead of a market merge are we going to see further market fragmentation and the creation of a third market: Merry King Cole's Discount Warehouse O'Self-Determination?
Unless GoRo is really only going to be lvl 1 - 20 when it comes to new content, making such a market unnecessary. Or perhaps Paragon Studios will continue their trend of introducing yet another resource type (perhaps Cole Hard Cash) that you can trade for enhancements et al when in Praetoria.
As I said: lots of nice new shiny systems, but the devil is in the detail of implementation.